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Comments
I'm new to the automotive supplier business and haven't used GMS pricing before. Is GMS typically close to invoice or % above/below?
As someone mentioned in an earlier post, MSRP and invoice pricing for the Rendezvous can be found at the Kelly Blue Book website (kbb.com)
Also, I have sold both the RX300 and ML series sport utes. Both are very comfortable vehicles, but the Rendezvous is going to blow these things away.
Various answers:
Michigan Mark: GMS pricing is very similiar to GMO. However, it is nearly impossible to figure out with going to a buick dealer. I can tell you that is is about $1k below invoice. I have to warn you though. Dealers are under no obligation to honor this pricing. I personally have turned down about 10 requests for GMO pricing on the rendezvous seeing as they are limited in numbers for the first 3 months and have been selling them at full sticker. When supply outweighs demand, then dealers will open their doors to GMO and GMS pricing.
Buzzbo: The tailgate will have to be tied down. No way around it.
Ogdens: There are currently 2 different credit cards offered by GM. the one you have is the old program. Max $500 per year up to 7 years. The new program is unlimited per year, but you can only use a certain amount towards the purchase. Typically, Buick will let you spend up to $2,000 per transaction. This can vary with the type of vehicle though.
Aztek vs. Rendezvous: As you probably have heard, the Aztek has been temporarily discontinued while they change to appearance. As a result, the Rendezvous will be more free flow in the next couple of months. Buick originally estimated the 2002 run would be about 25,000 units. They have now estimated about 55,000 units since the Aztek announcement. Great news for both Aztek and Rendezvous future owners.
dfwsunset : Sorry to hear about your bad experience with the Regal, but the Rendezvous is 10 years later. Buicks have an excellent and well above average record.
Personally, I am very excited to see and drive the Rendezvous, at $28K for a CXL (est GMO), I don't think anything holds a candle to it for my needs. However, if I were shopping in the $35K region, the Rendezvous would have to compete with the Acura MDX, Mercedes ML320, and Toyota Sequoia... fierce competition indeed.
Toyota, Acura (Honda), and Mercedes have all established industry benchmarks for build quality, customer satisfaction, resale value, and of course, neighbor envy. Dollar for dollar, how do you think the Buick stacks up?
I am a little bugged by your statement that you are turning away GMO customers. I have bought two GM vehicles from the same dealership through this program and they have never hesitated to serve me. As a result, I have become a loyal customer, know the service and sales management and staff, and have referred business to them.
From a Buick and Ford owner for the past Ten years and over 200,000 miles on each - here is my 2 cents. We were very serious about purchasing the Rendezvous. My last experience with service on the Buick brought back the ten years of indifference that Buick has to its customers. For example, the calipers on the Regal that had to go to court for a settlement for Buick to finally acknowledge bad design. Current comments such as #30, 31 and 35. Seems to me that Buick management 10 years later still misses the point. Under powered engine for the Rendezvous sacrifice cost in lieu of customer satisfaction. Know the problem exists but stick your head in the sand. There is one more Rendezvous out there for someone else to be frustrated over, I will not buy one. Our Buick and Ford are serviced at the same dealership, it is an autopark and Ford has out performed Buick in every category. 1991 Ford Explorer and 265,000 miles later I believe I can testify to the reliability and satisfaction over time.
As for the Rendezvous, I doubt it shares almost anything in common with your 1991 Buick.
The Rendezvous has the same drivetrain as the Chevy Venture, Oldsmobile Silhouette, and Pontiac Montana, which have been on the road for more than three years. Well, I guess the cat's finally out of the bag. GM should do the right thing and buy them all back and scrap them! Oh yeah, another Rendezvous twin, the 2000 Pontiac Aztek. Although it has been notably trouble free in it's first year of production, I'm sure it's just a matter of time...SCRAP IT!
I think word is finally out on the Buick Regal too. People discovered GM's well kept secret that it is the same car as the Chevy Lumina, Chevy Monte Carlo, Pontiac Grand Prix, and Oldsmobile Intrigue. Hmmm, you don't see too many of them on the road, do you? You know, I think GM has used the same brakes on all of the midsize GM sedans since at least 1991...we all have some money coming!
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed that GM (especially Buick)hasn't made a quality car since 1990? I'm surprised that GM has managed to stay in business at all; selling hundreds of thousands of lemons each year and treating their customers like garbage...for ten years in a row! What is their secret?.
You know, I wish someone had informed me of GM's evil ways back in 1991. If I had only known...I feel so stupid having earned all those GM rewards!
The "base" Rendezvous CXL MSRP is $31,672. If a person wanted to lease one for three years, they could expect a 58% residual value (my best estimate-correct me if I'm wrong Woodybuick). That equates to a residual value of $18,370 at the end of the lease, or $13,302 of depreciation over 36 months.
For a base Acura MDX, MSRP is $34,850. The residual value at the end of a three year lease is 70% (got that from Acura). That equals a residual value of $24,395, or $10,455 of depreciation over 36 months.
Also, a Mercedes ML320 with luxury package, moonroof, and 3rd row seat has an MSRP of $40,000. With a 69% residual (got that from Mercedes) the residual value after 36 months is $27,600. That equates to depreciation of $12,400.
Not counting tax, interest, etc., it costs $370/month to lease the Buick, $345/month for the Mercedes, and $290/month for the Acura. Even with sales tax, interest, etc. added to the mix, it doesn't change the logic.
fedlawman : I don't think the Rendezvous will be under powered. I have been hanging around in the Aztek forum and people seem fine with the 3.4L. My neighbor has a Chevy Venture and three kids and says it works fine also. Great fuel economy!
If the target market is people between say 35-55, that's 20 years of population. This represents approximately 25% of the population, or 64M people (assuming 240M in the US). In that age range, suppose 25% of those would consider a vehicle in the $34K price range.
With a TAM (total available market) of 16M people, if Buick sells 60K units in it's first year, they will have achieved a market penetration of only .375% (less than 1%). I don't think their market numbers are too aggressive.
You know what happened today. Someone asked ?Do you know what the Buick Rendezvous and the Lexus have in common? The Buick Rendezvous is the poor man's Lexus. At a sticker price of 30K plus, How disgusting.
Apart from the fact that the Aztek/Rendezvous has four forward-hinged doors, they are no different from other GM minivans. They (Aztek/Rendezvous & the other GM minivans) all have the same ground clearance, none of them can tow a decent sized boat, none of them have standard-sized truck tires, and none of them have off-road capable suspension articulation. Other than that nifty AWD option (lots of cars have this too, but they're not called SUVs) there's nothing on them that says "sport" or "utility".
At least the Buick is decent looking. Even trendy-ish. It would blend in on a lot with other luxury SUVs.
Next thing you know, someone's going to take an ordinary car, give it some ground clearance, and call it an SUV. What? Someone already has? Honda CR-V & Toyota Rav-4? Oh yeah, I forgot about those other SUV wannabes...
<<<Don't you mean "Eagle" the late AMC? Is it the trucks are turning into cars or the cars are turning into trucks. Maybe some people don't want either and want something in the middle. Hey if you want to pull big boats, this isn't for you. But if you just want to lug a family of four (or five or six) you can't get a wood grained Country Squire any more. Sure hope this board doesn't get as mucked up as the Aztek one did.
I am considering the Rendezvous for my next vehicle because I NEED a minivan but WANT an SUV. The Rendezvous fits me because it is more rugged and all-weather capable than a minivan (good for Seattle winters), yet more economical than a full-size SUV...and it will even fit in my garage!
On a recent trip to Southern California, I saw a multitude of Suburbans, Expeditions, and Sequoias with gold fenders, running boards, chrome wheels, etc., and not a single trailer hitch to be seen...do you think they ever leave the macadam?
If a person wants to purchase a $35,000 truck, insure and maintain a 4X4 transaxle, and guzzle a gallon of gas every 14 miles, more power to them...especially if they actually use it off-road and/or tow a trailer. Personally, I prefer to spend about $27,000 (invoice) for a nicely equipped AWD minivan alternative and put the savings into my 401K and kids college funds.
PS: dindak - my mother-in-law has a Chevy Venture and you're right, the 3.4L is plenty powerful...even loaded with the family. In fact, I have surprised more than a few people at stoplights and on-ramps with the Venture's acceleration (it has a nice growl at full throttle too).
fedlawman : After sitting behind the wheel and having tested an Aztek, I'm pretty sure I will like this vehicle. No it's not really an SUV, but I like it anyway. It doesn't look like a van and that is key for my wife who will likely be the primary driver. 3.4L is a very decent engine and compared to those 4 cyl RAV4s and CRVs I'm sure it will rock.
1. Great power! Even loaded with 4 adults, 2 kids, and luggage, it has quite impressive acceleration down low. It fizzles out at high RPM and above 3rd gear, although it downshifts smartly and accelerates with authority when passing at freeway speeds.
2. Smooth and serene ride, numb steering and road feel. Although it corners like a sedan, it feels disconnected from the road a little (although I am used to driving a Firebird and a Miata).
3. Build quality. The fan doesn't work at setting #1, the rear wiper makes a moaning noise, the left front brake makes a clicking sound, and a piece of plastic trim is broken near the sliding door track.
4. The body feels just a little loose when going down the road, as though the van is not quite as heavy as it should be. As the helicopter pilot saying goes, it feels like "a thousand parts flying in loose formation."
I wonder how many of these issues (ride and body integrity) are related to the increased interior and exterior dimensions of an extended van and whether the Rendezvous will have more sound deadening, structural integrity, etc. I am also concerned about the annoying foibles that GM seems to be famous for...especially in a new model. I imagine that the Aztek posts might be a good place to gather information.
Let's see if I can remember most of the questions
Trailer Hitch: Yes, you will need to have one installed. The wiring for the trailer will be there.
GMO: Normally, we will never turn down GMO or GMS orders. This vehicle is a special case. Buick has given us 98 redezvous's for the entire 02 season. Can we get more..hopefully. Come August when I have a few on the lot, we will start to honor GMO and GMS pricing.
GMCARD: Warren is right. On the Rendezvous yuo have the amount based on the type of credit card you are using..either $3,500 or $2,000 (I mistakenly said $1,500, I apologize).
Now, on with my rant...
Fedlawman: Your numbers on leasing are quite accurate except for one thing. The lease rate. MB and Acura do not incentivise their rates, GM does. That makes up the difference in the residual. One more thing. 70% of the buick population pays cash for their vehicle. What will most likely happen is that Buick will up the residual when it sees how many people are coming over from MB, Acura, BMW, etc. When you combine these two things, buick will have a hit on their hands.
To whoever said quality on the GM products is terrible: What do you mean Buick hasn't built a quality car since 1990??? Does the fact that Buick is the highest quality car out of all GM impress you? Probably not. Does it impress you that Buick has a higher quality rating than any other american car? Again, probably not. What about Buick being better than BMW? Hmm..now we are talking. Oh yeah, it's better than MB also. The LeSabre is the best selling full size sedan for 9 STRAIGHT years. Yeah, the quality on that car is terrible. I see them in the shop CONSTANTLY!! I wonder what they are doing with all that used up oil coming out of them. Wonder why people keep buying them. BTW, the brakes on the regal and century were changed in the 97 model year. The brakes on the Rendezvous are different from them. GM learned from their mistake. They paid the price, but they learned.
Rkuehn: Nope, no bike mount. Aztek is marketed as an all purpose vehicle. Rend is going to be your traditional luxury x-over vehicle. Different markets
dfwsunset: Ok, ok. The brakes on the w-body cars sucked. Everyone knows this. Rendezvous is not a w-body car. It is a whole new product using parts that have been out for a few years on other models. The only new "concept" is having Motorola design a new electrical system for the car. However, this new system has been used in planes for almost 30 years. It involves a central cable rather than 500 wires wiring everywhere. Everything plugs into the cable. One computer handles most of the operation of the car. I guess my advice would be to wait for your settlement check. Also wait on telling everyone the Rend is a piece of junk before you have even ever sat in one.
Disclaimer: It is quite possible that I confused some of the names with their prior statements. If I used your name in error, it was just that. Please let me know so I can take you off my hit list on the next set on rants
Jeff
I think you misunderstood my leather seat question. The one I ordered has the versitility package (1sd I beleive) with leather seats. In the summer I get a lot of salty sweat on the drivers seat and I would like to cover it for protection but do not want to put something that looks like the sale pages of JC Whitney. Any suggestions?
I received Buicks promotional package on the Rendezvous which included an option to pre-order and what Buick claims is a priority build time.
My questions are this, would this promotional order count against a dealers allotment for the year and do you think the priority build claim is valid or just a marketing gimmick?
Thanks,
Tony
Now the good news for bartoli is the salesman told me the per sell did not count against the dealership's allotment. The 5000 per sale units were separate from the dealer allotment production. But I wonder if the dealer allotment will increase with the increased production caused by the stall in Aztec production.
As far as the seat covers go, I honestly don't have the foggiest. Buick doesn't make any seat covers for any products that I am aware of. I have had a customer go to a custom trim shop (like one you would go to for repairing a seat cushion on a boat) and have the shop custom make one for you. Pros: great fit and finish, you decided on the color and quality of material. Cons: Might be cost prohibitive. Again, I have most of the answers, just not all
Bertoli: Even I have conflicting reports on this. Some of the material I haved received say that any "pre-order" cars won't be built until early August. Others have said right away. In either case, non of these sales go against dealers allocation. My first five are being built as we speak. 2 weeks and they should be in. I can't wait to try this thing out!
what kind of deal I can make with the pre-order option.
Since the pre-order doesn't count against a dealers allotment I would assume I might be able
to negotiate a decent deal....
Woody, one more question, if I order and then for some reason I want to back out of the deal after delivery to the dealership, I am committed or would a dealer consider this an extra vehicle he can sell...tho I guess there might not be holdback available on that vehicle?