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2005 Chrysler 300 - AGAIN with the "crown sensitive" crutch/gambit!
My last post in this forum was in July of 2004 and I commented on the "crown sensitive" issue for the 2005 Chrysler 300 series which in effect 'translated' to the vehicle chronically pulling to the right!
I got so tired of repeatedly trying to get the problem corrected and receiving a constant dealership litany that the 300 model series is "crown sensitive" [read: pulls right] as allegedly "normal" [!?] that I traded the vehicle in within 6 months for an identical model year [2005] 300 T only this time with "All Wheel Drive" believing this might make a difference! Nope! It still pulls right although not as pronounced as the first rear-wheel drive 300 did! And AGAIN I get from the dealership that the 300 series [AWD inclusive] is "crown sensitive" !
I see it as faulty design engineering and many websites even now in 2007 show various and sundry Chrysler 300 model owners being told that the vehicle is "crown sensitive" -- in other words, nature of the beast kind of thing and, PS, you'll seemingly get used to it! Say what?
Someone please tell me: HOW can a brand new vehicle discernibly pull or track to the right by itself where you have to literally HOLD the wheel to keep the vehicle straight on the road to counter the right pull in 'any' sense of the word allegedly be considered "normal" ? I'm being told there is nothing that can be done and I honestly believe this "crown sensitive" [sic] business is an ad hoc excuse or crutch if you will for what is in reality faulty alignment engineering!
So too, if the Chrysler folks themselves take the so-termed "crown senstive" [sic] posture and position or handy 'excuse', what is possibly gained by going the quite lengthy and laborious Chrysler arbitrator or 'buy-back' route when the manufacturer 'itself' claims the right hand pull or 'tracking drift' to be allegedly "normal" under the guise [or 'gambit'] of the vehicle being merely "crown sensitive" ?! In effect, those who have and well know and duly experience the right hand pull on the 300 model series every day they drive it are essentially stuck with it!
Doc Tony
I got so tired of repeatedly trying to get the problem corrected and receiving a constant dealership litany that the 300 model series is "crown sensitive" [read: pulls right] as allegedly "normal" [!?] that I traded the vehicle in within 6 months for an identical model year [2005] 300 T only this time with "All Wheel Drive" believing this might make a difference! Nope! It still pulls right although not as pronounced as the first rear-wheel drive 300 did! And AGAIN I get from the dealership that the 300 series [AWD inclusive] is "crown sensitive" !
I see it as faulty design engineering and many websites even now in 2007 show various and sundry Chrysler 300 model owners being told that the vehicle is "crown sensitive" -- in other words, nature of the beast kind of thing and, PS, you'll seemingly get used to it! Say what?
Someone please tell me: HOW can a brand new vehicle discernibly pull or track to the right by itself where you have to literally HOLD the wheel to keep the vehicle straight on the road to counter the right pull in 'any' sense of the word allegedly be considered "normal" ? I'm being told there is nothing that can be done and I honestly believe this "crown sensitive" [sic] business is an ad hoc excuse or crutch if you will for what is in reality faulty alignment engineering!
So too, if the Chrysler folks themselves take the so-termed "crown senstive" [sic] posture and position or handy 'excuse', what is possibly gained by going the quite lengthy and laborious Chrysler arbitrator or 'buy-back' route when the manufacturer 'itself' claims the right hand pull or 'tracking drift' to be allegedly "normal" under the guise [or 'gambit'] of the vehicle being merely "crown sensitive" ?! In effect, those who have and well know and duly experience the right hand pull on the 300 model series every day they drive it are essentially stuck with it!
Doc Tony
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Comments
I don't doubt that many owners had legitimate problems with alignment. But I think the majority of us were just not prepared for what I consider a hyper-sensitive front end, especially if like me, you came from a front wheel drive car where the best description of road feel would be "numb".
What I object to from Chrysler and subsequently the dealerships is the response to such owner remarks, again, 'specific' to the right pull as being allegedly "normal" or the result of "crown sensitivity." But get this Vic-10, various dealerships 'themselves' say that there 'was' a problem with "early model 2005 300's" but this has [allegedly] been allegedly corrected! Oh?! I went from the rear-wheel drive 300 to the AWD 300 T and the same problem exists! A discernible pull to the right. How can this be "normal" and I'll add to that the TBS [acronym sp.?] that Chyrysler itself came out with [shim and bolt 'kit'] to deal with the 'excess drift' [read: the right pull matter] problem but it didn't work!
From what I can put together, the worst of this pull right "crown sensitivity" occurs in the early 2005 300 series for BOTH the rear-wheel and AWD with subsequent 300 models and years [2006/2007] being 'somewhat' improved especially on the V8 300 C 'Hemi' AWD models. But for Chrysler and the dealerships to say that a pull to the right is somehow "normal" or "the nature of the beast in the 300 series model" or "you'll get used to it over time" is utter nonsense!
The easiest thing in the world is for 300 owners to identify a common problem and then the manufacturer [and hence a requisite albeit parroted 'echo' by the dealerships] is to come up with an 'excuse' or handy 'crutch' to explain this alignment fault away -- and they did --- under the guise of "crown sensitivity." That's a lot cheaper than issuing a national recall! Bottom line message from Chrysler and the dealerships by default to the 300 series owners: "Live with it!" At least until enough folks who experience this pull to the right problem with their 300 [AWD inclusive] get together and force a class action recall situation on the matter or some kind of viable alignment fix that works ... without chewing up the tires!
Doc Tony
As for the how-can-you-design-something-like-this issue, for 3 years I drove a late model Ford Taurus, frequently from Montreal to NYC, and was always amazed at how this open stretch from Montreal to the border had such horrific crosswinds that driving was a tight-gripped, two-hands-on-the-wheel-experience. I then got an Intrepid and was looking forward to seeing how it would deal with those crosswinds. Well you know, there must have been a shift in the weather pattern because there were no crosswinds after that. Driving was a one-hand, almost one-finger, on-the- wheel experience. A friend had a first year Taurus and he had the same complaint. The car had a skittish front end at highway speeds and it remained that way through the entire run of the model. So you can have suspensions with unique, and not necessarily desireable, characteristics.
My main issue with the 300's suspension is with the noise level of the rear end. They could have used some softer mounts back there....
I'll finally be replacing the Conti's with Goodyear Assurance tomorrow and will be interested to see how that affects the dynamics of the car. Several contributors claim it's miraculous.
On the Chrysler 300 series LX frame, the alignment issue WAS and IS the basis for a Chrysler issued 300 series TSB and at first this "shim and bolt kit" [sic] fix was tried but didn't make the problem go away. It helped somewhat but was not a "cure" as various of the 300 series continued to pull right. But read on ...
However, the problem became better controlled [although not eliminated] with later 300 model years [2006 and 2007] and after the early 2005 300 series [AWD inclusive] VERY pronounced "crown sensitivity" [read: pull right].
Right now, I'm negotiating for yet another trade-in for a V8 300-C AWD and this model from 2006 onward has the least manifestation of the "crown sensitive" issue . What else can be done? If Chrysler itself takes the position that the "crown sensitivity" issue is allegedly "normal", hey, all the dealerships or arbirators can do is follow the prescribed, shall we say, "line", yes? So, I either trade up for a lessening or even hopeful disappearance of the pull/drift to the right "crown sensitive" problem or go for another model vehicle entirely where such issues as pulling right by itself and having to literally HOLD the vehicle straight via the steering wheel to 'manually' counter the right drift/pull is NOT considered "normal" [sic -- Chrysler] by other vehicle manufacturers and their wares!
Doc Tony
Ahh well, I can always hope to hit the multi-state "Mega-Millions" lottery, right? I mean with over 200 mill' [Ohhh yes -- the pot about a month ago was 370 million on a one dollar ticket! There were 2 winners! NJ and GA], then I'll get a Rolls Royce Phantom and get it over with although with my luck it would no doubt ... pull to the right! ;-)
Ron
The more I read the comments of 300 owners, the AWD models and V8 'C' inclusive, the more I am convinced that this 'crown sensitive' business is an engineering design flaw where compounding the problem is that a 'fix' is not available or simply doesn't work! So, you guessed it, the 300 owner gets dealership double-talk as in "relax ... you'll get used to it!"
I'll go one better! On one of the websites, a 300 owner sought the opinion of a wheel alignment independent expert and the response was "Sure, we can force [via front end mechanical tinkerings] the vehicle to run perfectly straight without the pull to the right ... but within a few months the tires will be chewed up!", so what does that suggest? It suggests to me a serious engineering design flaw under the rather handy guise of the vehicle being "crown sensitive." In effect, the Chrysler/dealership message to the 300 series owner is ... "live with it!"
Doc Tony
I have A '06 Charger with the same suspesion you have.I don't have your problem so its not the design.My car goes straight down the road,and the steering wheel is straight.The alignment problem is mostly on early built 2005 300.There is A Service bulletin for your problem so I don't know why your dealer didn't do this.They all know about this problem.The Service Bulletin # is tsb-0200304
the date of bulletin is Mar/12-2005.This is a revised version from their first bulletin that didn't solve the problem.You could go back to your dealer and ask them to perform this bulletin on your car.Or try a differant dealer.
I hope this helps,Good Luck
On my first rear-wheel V6 300 T, I had the "shim and bolt kit" performed and the problem remained although 'somewhat' lessened and that's why, out of total frustration, I moved to an AWD 300-T albeit same year model and there it was again and this ###$#$# [fill in the blank with the appropriate frustration word(s)] "crown sensitive" excuse for what, as in the case of your Charger, 'should' be NO pull whatsoever! Now THAT is normal -- NO PULL -- straight down the road 'without' the right hand pull and having to 'hold' it straight -- indeed!
You're right tho' in the sense that there are dealerships and then there are dealerships! Right now, I'm looking into the later year 2006/2007 300 C 'Hemi' AWD and/or a dealership that has better experience with whatever fix is out there but, in all fairness and hardly making myself to be any sort of an authority on vehicle suspension systems, to be sure, I'm to a great extent relating not just my own problems with this "crown sensitive" pull to the right business but a veritable wealth of 'other' websites and 'other' Chrysler 300 owners. This pull right problem pops up over and over and over again! The very fact that there was and is a Chrysler TSB is obviously telling in itself yet to hear some dealerships, it's a question of "getting used to it" if the quick-fix bolt and shim thing doesn't work which I feel is merely dealership 'make the problem go away' rhetorical nonsense.
BTW, the media rumblings are that the Mercedes/Chrysler "marriage" is on the rocks! So who knows what will happen next in terms of who makes the call on Chrysler 'looks', technology and engineering!
Doc Tony
If I remember right your in the Syracuse area.I lived in that area ,and I used to go to the Chrysler dealer in
Fayettville.At the time I went there they did good work,I'm not sure about now.I would if you can,get a 07 so you know most of the bugs are gone.I'm worried also about what going to happen to Chrysler,I've been buying Mopars for over 30yrs.Good Luck..
You are considering your 3rd 300?
I would have avoided DC after the first no fix.
I guess I am not very loyal. I have owned 2 chevys and one DC.
Further, as the model years went on [2006 model and then the first 2007's], the problem became much lessened and who is to say what design modifications were done when the 2005 models showed such a heavy propensity for the 'very' discernible right hand pull, AKA 'crown sensitive' issue.
I tried a 300 C 'Hemi' V8, late 2006 model, and the car was smooth and straight. Problem is when you make the move to the 'C' class V8 'Hemi' 'and' you want the AWD, well, the difference in trade-in plus up-front cash layout for the V8 Hemi with AWD can be considerable! But there are always deals or specials here and there or in some cases low mileage 'C' class vehicles available [including demo types] and the savings can be equally considerable. Sidebar: I really like that "magnesium pearl" paint scheme! As most know, including myself, when you buy brand spanking new, you 'pay' big too! :-(
And there IS great truth to the axiom that the moment you drive off the lot with a brand new vehicle, thousands suddenly disappear in almost instant "depreciation" because even after a first owner driven 100 miles, yeah, 100 miles, the vehicle is suddenly "used" or, as they [read: the dealerships] say today, "pre-owned", not to mention getting banged for the taxes! But that's another thread where the owner gets the hit for the trade-in/trade-up and then the same vehicle is subsequently sold for thousands 'more' than when the owner was allowed for the trade-in! Akin to the 3 or 4 thousand dollar 'detail job' so to speak. Let's face it, dealerships are in the business of making a profit any way they can!
My gripe is having to deal with the bugs of a new model and then doing the up-trade thing for what was originally a 'known' [witness the 2005 TSB] problem but explained away with such terms as, you guessed it, "crown sensitivity" or, get this one, "overly sensitive tracking issues on 'certain' [emphasis mine] roadways" passed off as "the nature of the vehicle" with the word "vehicle" no doubt duly substituted ... for the word "beast."
Doc Tony
Hey! There's always the lottery! ;-)
First issue is the incorrect jigging of a number of early C300's. This is a genuine manufacturing flaw & it is partly corrected by the offset bolt bandaid. Depepending on the magnitude of the jigging error, the offset bolts may or may not correct the problem, but the chassis fault itself cannot be fixed.
Second issue is crown sensitivity. This results from a deliberate design feature that is intended to give the front tires more "bite" in cornering & provide reduced understeer and sharp steering response that is normally completely absent in large heavy cars with long wheelbases. The front end geometry is similar in concept to that seen on a road grader -- the front wheels lean into the turn as they are deflected right or left. This greatly reduces lateral tire slip and sharpens steering response. It also introduces a pronounced crown sensitivity -- it is neither a manufacturing nor a design flaw and cannot be removed.
It is there for sure on a crowned road, but takes only a little steering pressure to correct, and on flat roads it is absent. I quite like the sharp response -- the car has amazing right-left transitional response & tracking despite its 4,000 lb weight, slow steering ratio and 120 in wheelbase. My 300C is enormously more agile than my 300M ever dreamed of being.
Chargers have exactly the same geometry & have identical steering response.
Some folks don't like it -- so be it. I'll keep mine, thank you very much
Certainly my 2006 300C seems to run straight on flat surfaces (and like a scalded dog, as is said), and has some sensitivity to a crowned road, but only if I think about it. :shades:
You have to move the "rack" and resecure it with new bolts.
I found the TSB myself and brought it in to the dealer. Wheel alignment guy said he had never been shown thyat TSB before. He proceeded to do mine and we road tested the car. I now have 62,000 miles on it and it;s still steers perfect.
After the first wheel alignment and nothing had changed, the dumbazz Service Manager told me that they were made to pull to the right so that in case of a medical emergence the car wouldn't drift into oncoming traffic. I informed him that he had a mental problem and should see a psychiatrist ASAP. lol