Midsize Sedans 2.0

backy · July 2008

I don't think lack of electronic stability control is "nit picking".

Maybe Ford figures their engines in the Fulan are so sluggish, back seat riders don't have to worry about whiplash anyway.

akirby · July 2008

But they have it now, so why continue to bring that up? It wasn't an industry standard in this class when they designed the Fusion back in 03-04 and the lack of 4 channel ABS prevented it from being easily added.

AWD can increase safety in inclement weather - I guess the other mfrs just don't care enough about safety to put that in their midsize sedans.

kdshapiro · July 2008

I guess the other mfrs just don't care enough about safety to put that in their midsize sedans.

You mean other than VW or Subaru.

backy · July 2008

Is ESC standard on every Fusion and Milan? That is news to me.

This is 2008. Actually 2009 in terms of model years. Look to the right. Four of those cars have ESC standard on every trim line. On 3 others, it's either a readily available option (and was in 2008 or before) or standard, depending on trim line. The slackers? Ford and Nissan.

How many Fusions and Milans have AWD? How many of the popular I4 Fusions and Milans have AWD? Get back to me and talk about AWD when every Fulan has AWD, like Subaru does with the Legacy/Outback.

imidazol97 · July 2008

> I guess the other mfrs just don't care enough about safety to put that in their midsize sedans.

I came into the middle of this thread but I want to point out many of us, in the snow area, don't want AWD. If the weather is bad enough to need it as the only way to get around in snow sans judicious, intelligent, physics-based driving techniques, then I am not going to be driving.

The additional weight and the mileage penalty of AWD/4WD systems is some many of us don't want.

I don't think there's a point to alleging that manufacturers don't care about safety.

akirby · July 2008

Yes, I meant Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, Kia.... you get the point.

mtnman1 · July 2008

Backy I just test drove a Fusion SEL V6 last Friday and I found the HP to be very good matched up with the 6 speed Transmission. It's now become a difficult decision for me between the Sonata Limited V6 and the SEL V6. The deals I've been offered and the Cars are equals as far as I'm concerned. Sonata has them with the fact that they come with stability control and a longer warranty.

backy · July 2008

So you like how the 2 cars drive equally well, and the deals are the same, but one car offers electronic stability control and a superior warranty. So... why is that a difficult decision? :confuse:

mz3s · July 2008

Because the man has emotions, that's why. You shouldn't buy a car on paper merit alone, although a lot of people feel you should. Maybe he likes the font on the gauges or the sound of the e-brake better on one car moreso than another.

backy · July 2008

Well, he said he likes (implies emotion) both cars equally well. I was taking him at his word. But if the decision is difficult, it's clear that there are other factors at work here.

Personally, I'd take ESC and a longer warranty (and better FE and more power and a more ergonomic control layout and...) over a nicer gauge font, but that's me.

maxamillion1 · July 2008

I think the Fusion gets adjusting rear headrest for 2010 when the car gets facelifted. I saw a set of spy pics that show off the new rear end and you can clearly see that the headrest are adjusted.

And isn't stability control about to be mandatory for all cars next year? If so all cars will end up with it by this time next year.

elroy5 · July 2008

And isn't stability control about to be mandatory for all cars next year? If so all cars will end up with it by this time next year.

2012.

mtnman1 · July 2008

There are emotions at play here. I kind of like the Fusion's interior and exterior slightly better. I felt the engine power was about equal. It had the upgraded stereo which I felt sounded better, the leather felt like it was a bit better quality, and I like the Sync feature. Like you said it should be a no brainer if it has a better warranty and a more secure vehicle because of ESC. I don't know backy for me it's always been more than just numbers and even facts about a vehicle. I'm 52 and I've made some good decisions and bad decisions in my car purchases. I remember when I was 21 I bought a used Fiat X19 two seat car because I just had to have it because it was so cool to me to drive. I sold a beautifully maintained 1970 Pontiac Firebird that my dad gave me when I graduated from High School in 1974. It was my Dad's car and I was going to Penn State at the time and my Dad was pretty upset when he found out I sold the car to buy the Fiat. I owned it for 9 months, 7 of which were spent sitting at a Fiat Dealers repair shop. I'm going to have to go back and drive the cars some more and Ford will allow me to take one home overnight. As I've gotten older I try to keep my emotions out of the decision making process, but it's tough.

backy · July 2008

So in fact it's not equal in your mind between the two cars. In the Fusion's favor are interior, exterior, stereo, leather feel, and Sync. For the Sonata it's ESC and warranty. Now that we have a better picture of what you think about the two cars, I can see why it's a difficult decision.

At the end of the day, you need to decide which car you'll like driving most over the next few years, which one will be most livable for you and yours over that time. Will the spiffier looks and electronics of the Fusion make you happier long-term, or will the extra peace of mind from things like more safety features and longer warranty make you happier? I'm more on the safety/security side myself, but I know electronics are a big deal for many buyers. And as long as I can live with the looks of a car long-term, that is enough for me unless everything else is equal except styling.

Have you considered waiting for the 2009 Fusion? Then you could have ESC plus everything else it offers that you like. And there's always extended warranties if you really want a long warranty.

mtnman1 · July 2008

Have you considered waiting for the 2009 Fusion? Then you could have ESC plus everything else it offers that you like. And there's always extended warranties if you really want a long warranty.

Yes I have and that's one of the options I'm considering. The one thing that concerns me about the Sonata is that it's in it's first year of the re-design. I know in the second year they get the little bugs out that seem to develop in the first year. I do have to buy a car sometime next spring or summer because I want to give my youngest Son my 03. Otherwise we will have to drive him and pick him up from school everyday on top of running him back and forth from the sports he participates in. He will be a High School Junior in 2009 and our school district does not have buses for Juniors and Seniors.

backy · July 2008

The one thing that concerns me about the Sonata is that it's in it's first year of the re-design.

Yeah, I suppose those new dash vents might break.

Seriously, it's still the same engines as debuted almost four years ago, but with improvements. The 5AT in the I4 isn't new; it was used earlier in the Optima et. al. But I think you are aiming at the V6, so that is a carryover but with some tweaks for more power. The suspension from all accounts is improved from the 2006-8 Sonatas. Those cars have an excellent reliability track record per CR etc. The basic platform, body, and most electronics are carry-over. Not a lot of new moving parts there.

If you want an excuse not to buy a 2009 Sonata and get the Fusion, I could think of lots better reasons than that.

tedebear · July 2008

I don't suppose you'd want to test drive the 3.5L Sebring, right? You'd have the leather, ESP, 6-speed autostick, lifetime powertrain warranty, MyGIG and a whole lot more.

I test drove a Fusion before I bought my Sebring last fall. Been very happy with it for 10 months thus far.

bhmr59 · July 2008

I wouldn't consider preferring the appearance of the exterior and/or interior as being "emotional", unless you were making a decision based solely on appearance. I also would not consider the preferring features of one car vs another as emotional.

To me, "emotion" is primarily driven by a concern of "what will others think of this brand?, or styling "only." In choosing a mid-size sedan, one has to consider the various pros & cons to see which car fits your needs best. Buying brand X over brand Y because of the badge is, I think, an emotional decision.

The '09 Sonata is not a new model subject to the possible bugs you fear in a new model. It is a refresh of the current generation introduced for the '06 model year in the spring of '05.

maxamillion1 · July 2008

I was over at Nissannews.com, they have a listing of all changes for the Altima Sedan, Coupe and Hybrid.

· New standard features on Altima base model:
 Improved manual transmission operational feel
 New 16-inch wheel cover design
 Black grille highlights
 Dual power remote-controlled sideview mirrors
 Trip computer and outside temperature gauge
 Power door locks with auto speed-sensing door lock system
 Air conditioning with in-cabin microfilter and front side window demisters
 Trunk cancel switch and rear seat lock
 Dual sun visors with drivers side vanity mirror
 Speed-sensitive variable intermittent windshield wipers
· Revised 2.5 S equipment (standard Xtronic CVT, dual zone automatic temperature control)
· Revised 3.5 SE Sport Package content (Vehicle Dynamic Control, HID bi-xenon headlights), standalone Moonroof Package
· New stand-alone 3.5 SL Vehicle Dynamic Control Package
· Three new exterior colors: Sonoma Sunset, Majestic Blue and Sonoran Sand

The 2009 Nissan Altima Sedan is available in four models: 2.5 (6MT), 2.5 S (CVT), 3.5 SE (6MT, CVT), 3.5 SL (CVT). It goes on sale in August 2008.

2009 Nissan Altima Coupe
Introduced as an all-new design for 2008, the 2009 Altima Coupe receives just minor refinements for the new model year, including:

6-speed manual transmission refined for improved operational feel
New 16-inch wheel cover design
New standard 18-inch aluminum-alloy wheel design for Altima Coupe 3.5 SE model, along with standard 235/45R18 Michelin tires
New high-gloss grille finish (previously medium gloss)
New auto speed-sensing door locks

For 2009, Altima Coupe is available with a choice of the award-winning VQ-series 3.5-liter V6 rated at 270 horsepower or 175-horsepower 2.5-liter inline 4-cylinder engines, each offered with either a 6-speed manual transmission or Nissans advanced Xtronic CVT (Continuously Variable Transmission).

Also offered is a long list of user-friendly technology features  including standard Nissan Intelligent KeyÔ with Push Button Ignition, available Bluetooth® Hands-free Phone System, available advanced touch-screen navigation system with XM NavTraffic® with real-time traffic information (XM® subscription required, sold separately) and RearView Monitor.

The 2009 Altima Coupe is offered in two models: 2.5 S and 3.5 SE. It goes on sale in August 2008.

2009 Nissan Altima Hybrid
Introduced in 2007, the 2009 Altima Hybrid mates a refined version of Nissans QR25 2.5-liter 4-cylinder gasoline engine with an advanced electric drive motor/generator. Together they give Altima Hybrid a net power rating of 198 horsepower (148 kW). With its standard electronically controlled eCVT, the Altima Hybrid achieves an EPA estimated fuel economy of 35 mpg City and 33 mpg Highway and is rated as an Advanced Technology-Partial Zero Emissions Vehicle (AT-PZEV).

For 2009, enhancements to the Altima Hybrid include:
New auto speed-sensing door locks
· Four new exterior colors: Red Brick, Navy Blue, Sonoran Sand and Mystic Jade

The 2009 Altima Hybrid is offered in one model, with available Technology and Moonroof Packages. It goes on sale in August 2008.

Note the error on new colors for the regular sedan...they are indded Red Brick and Navy Blue not Sonoma Sunset and Majestic Blue (as they are already available)

Seems i spoke too soon about the 2.5BASE, backy, looks like it will become a more popular trim for those of us who like to row our own gears. the 2.5S is automatic only now too.

explorerx4 · July 2008

i bought an '07 fusion awd. it seems to be a pretty good car and it was a great deal.
the gas mileage seems to be ok. went from about 29 with a focus 2.3 stick(over 42k) to about 22 in the fusion(less than 3k).
the fusion has more style than the sonata, although i think the wheels on the sonata look great.
i'd like to leave my emotions out of the decision, but i can't. you have to pick the car that will be the best one to own for you.

backy · July 2008

Did I read that list of new features for the base Altima right? Is it only getting power mirrors, a/c, and a driver's side vanity mirror (not lighted apparently) for 2009? If so... Nissan didn't sell too many base Altimas before now, did they?

I didn't see ESC (or whatever Nissan calls it) on the list for the I4. But then there's the new wheel covers and grille.

maxamillion1 · July 2008

Naw, the 2.5BASE has never been a big seller. It wasn't a big seller for the previous generation Altima either. Neither was the "XE" Altima from generations One and Two. The trim was basically Nissan's "Altima starts below 19K" trim level...but that looks to be changing for 2009. I still don't think it will sell in high volume (as its 6MT only still) but sales should pick up slightly.

What's interesting is that the 2.5S (which is the volume seller) is CVT only now and has automatic climate control standard...a feature that was once only available on the 2.5S with SL pkg, 3.5Sl or 3.5SE with Premium pkg. So now the SL pkg may very well include the CD6 and XM radio instead of making folks pay for this feature in the Connection pkg.

I also see that the VDC is now grouped with the Sports pkg (since the Moonroof is a stand-alone option now) so basically since Nissan has pkgs that are cumulative models with the Sports pkg and up will have VDC but I4 models will not.

Looks like we won't see VDC available on the Altima until it gets a full facelift (next year for MY2010) or a full redesign...which accurately matches up with when it will be mandatory...in 2012.

jeffyscott · July 2008

I think the base model was a fictional character that was created so that they could advertise a price of $19,900. IIRC, it was by order only, no dealers could stock them. I think it also only came in black with no options available.

backy · July 2008

That part about black only was a joke, right? Well, if not... it worked for Henry, didn't it?

Fortunately not too many mid-sizers have these stripped trims that don't exist in normal space, and that no one would want. Base Accord, Aura, Camry, Fulan, Malibu, Passat, Sonata... all pretty well equipped.

jeffyscott · July 2008

No joke. I thought I remembered that from the brochure. I just checked, using edmunds "price with options" feature, and black is in fact the only color. They do show 2 options, though: Aluminum Kick Plates and Emergency Aid Package.

aviboy97 · July 2008

Aviboy, any idea how the product mix for the new 6 will turn out? Which trim is projected to sell the best? I'm willing to bet its the Touring models.

Max, we believe that the i Touring model will be the most popular. We have ordered mostly Touring and GT models. We have ordered a few Sport's in there, mainly to use them as a price leader for advertisement purposes.

The SV trim is only available as a special order by getting special approval. Don't expect to see any. I really don't know why they even offer it.

jeffyscott · July 2008

I really don't know why they even offer it.

Probably the same reason Nissan has the base Altima, so they can advertise an MSRP of <$20K.

karpediem · July 2008

Backy, I'm surprised you were able to reply to something concerning the Altima and not mention ESC....actually the majority of your posts include those 3 letters. IMO it makes no difference to me if a fwd car has ESC or VDC, and I have the possiblity of driving in snow 5 months out of the year.

backy · July 2008

Maybe I like that particular feature because the possible snow season where I live is about nine months--and it was nearly that last winter. Or maybe because I want my wife and 3 kids (two of whom drive now, one in a few years) to have every advantage when it comes to staying safe on the road. If you don't have others driving your car or don't care much about their safety, that's none of my business.

Just as it's none of your business how often I mention ESC. Or VSC. Or VSA. Or ESP. Or whatever it's called.

maxamillion1 · July 2008

I can relate Backy...I spent a good chunk of last year living in Chicago while working on a driver assignment for my trucking company. My 05 Altima, which lacks ABS, SAB, SAC and ESC had a time dealing with the ice, snow and cold of Chicago winter. I vowed that when I did get another car it would have as many safety features that were available and that's why the current Altima isn't really on my list. Living in South Carolina I always wondered what was so great about remote engine start or stability contorl...I quickly realized how important both were once I moved into the midwest.

South Carolina winters are like early Chicago springs...LOL. A little snow here and there but nothing really significant. When I moved to Chicago, I'd never seen so much snow in my life! That's the primary reason the next 6, Accord and of course the Sonata are so high on my list because once I'm done with college (I'm going back in the Jan!!!) I'm moving back. I love the Chi.

lilengineerboy · July 2008

I can relate Backy...I spent a good chunk of last year living in Chicago while working on a driver assignment for my trucking company. My 05 Altima, which lacks ABS, SAB, SAC and ESC had a time dealing with the ice, snow and cold of Chicago winter. I vowed that when I did get another car it would have as many safety features that were available and that's why the current Altima isn't really on my list. Living in South Carolina I always wondered what was so great about remote engine start or stability contorl...I quickly realized how important both were once I moved into the midwest.

Actually, I think your odds would have been much better with a $400 set of dedicated snow tires than $2000 worth of alphabet soup listed above. None of those buzzwords can violate laws of physics, and it all comes down to the coefficient of friction of 4 little contact patches the size of the palm of your hand. If the tires don't have contact with the road, all the electronics in the world aren't going to save you.

backy · July 2008

Yup, the snow tires are a good idea too. But snow tires don't help diddly if someone else who DOESN'T have snow tires (or maybe they do and they passed out at the wheel) rams my car. That's where some of that "alphabet soup" can come in reeeeeal handy. Or maybe there's a freak early or late season snowstorm (like the infamous Halloween blizzard of 1991, or the snows in my town late this past spring). Might be nice to have that soup then too.

elroy5 · July 2008

That's where some of that "alphabet soup" can come in reeeeeal handy. Or maybe there's a freak early or late season snowstorm (like the infamous Halloween blizzard of 1991, or the snows in my town late this past spring). Might be nice to have that soup then too.

Cambell's, mmm mmm good. Darn, now I'm hungry.

lilengineerboy · July 2008

Yup, the snow tires are a good idea too. But snow tires don't help diddly if someone else who DOESN'T have snow tires (or maybe they do and they passed out at the wheel) rams my car.

ESC/RSC/Stability control isn't going to do a lot for you if someone creams you. Having a good crumple zone and a structure designed to absorb the force before it reaches the occupant, whether active or passive, is nice to have. Oh yeah, and seat belts.

Or maybe there's a freak early or late season snowstorm (like the infamous Halloween blizzard of 1991, or the snows in my town late this past spring).

So if your chances of a collision are that much higher during a certain period, wouldn't it make sense just to sit and wait out that period? I am not saying its not helpful to have safety systems (both active and passive, both pre and post collision), but if my odds were that bad, I would try to keep the car in the garage.

Even with traction or stability or any of those active systems, physics doesn't discriminate between when you should expect snow or when you shouldn't, its all about friction.

karpediem · July 2008

Just as it's none of your business how often I mention ESC. Or VSC. Or VSA. Or ESP. Or whatever it's called.

This is still a public forum...correct? Should I not read your posts?

You can like your ESC and anyone else can. I would much rather have a great set of winter tires as would my wife who drives the Altima. Luckily she knows how to drive a car and can control the car when the tires spin, which is not tough in a fwd car. Shoot, people with ESC or whatever, can just floor it and expect the car to do all the work and their car perfoms worse. My Xterra has VDC, and the majority of the time it kicks in when I don't want it to, then I lose power for a second and can't accelerate if I am turning into traffic for example. I'm glad to have the option to turn it off. <<<<< Is that an option with all cars that have it by the way? My last 2 cars didn't have it, but I believe my wifes old GrandAm had TCS and you could turn that off, but I may be wrong.

Personally, I would rather have more control over my car than my car has over me.

backy · July 2008

ESC/RSC/Stability control isn't going to do a lot for you if someone creams you.

Some of the "alphabet soup" you dismissed included side airbags and curtains. If you don't think those help protect you, take a look at the IIHS crash tests on cars done with and without those features.

So if your chances of a collision are that much higher during a certain period, wouldn't it make sense just to sit and wait out that period?

Not always practical. What if you're on your way home from work, it starts snowing--what do you do, pull over, maybe get a hotel room a few miles from your home, until the storm passes and the snow melts?

You make it sound like I am demanding that you and everyone else get a car with features like ABS and electronic stability control. I'm not. I'm talking about what's important for me in a mid-sized car. Actually, it's the Feds that are forcing you and everyone else to buy cars with the "alphabet soup." So if you and others don't want to buy old cars without those features for the rest of your life, better get used to the idea of having them.

backy · July 2008

Sure, read whatever posts you want. But why the shots about "you can't make a post about the Altima without mentioning ESC"? You must have better things to do than count how many times someone uses an acronym in Town Hall. At least, I hope you do...

ESC and TCS can be turned off in many cars. I can turn off the TCS on my Elantra, for example. But I never do. I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the times it's kicked in in over four years. Each time it did, I was glad it did. Also, you can drive without latching your seatbelt if you so choose (might be illegal, though... darn government trying to tell us what's good for us again, eh?). You don't need them anyway, since you and your wife will always be in total control of your car and every other car on the road and will never allow yourselves to be put into a situation that will cause an accident.

Snow tires are fine, but what about those slippery conditions (ice, rain, gravel) when the snow tires are stacked in the garage? They aren't like ESC which can be flicked on or off in a second.

I prefer the "defense in depth" strategy myself.

karpediem · July 2008

You don't need them anyway, since you and your wife will always be in total control of your car and every other car on the road and will never allow yourselves to be put into a situation that will cause an accident.

Yes, that is exactly what I said. My wife and I have superpowers and you just uncovered them.

So do you where a helmet and neck brace when you drive because it makes you more safe?

Hard to believe that driving in 9 months of snow and your TCS had only gone on 3 or less times in over 4 years.

ANYWAYS...back on topic....They said black accents to the Altima grille, but in the new comercial, the Nissan test facility one, it says 2009 Altima shown but the grille looks the same.....unless I am missing something. Was the base Altima's grille different than the other ones?

jeffyscott · July 2008

When I moved to Chicago, I'd never seen so much snow in my life!

Well, anyone under the age of about 26, who has lived in Chicago for their entire life could say the same thing. They would probably actually have to be at least 30 years old to remember the last winter with as much snow (1981). To have driven in as much snow, a Chicagoan would have to be over about 42.

2007-08 had about double the average snowfall.

http://home.att.net/~chicago_climo/chisnow.gif

pat · July 2008

Regarding some recent posts, let's leave the personal comments outside the door - please.

thegraduate · July 2008

Not trying to poke the bear here, but on what trims does the Mazda 6 come with ESC? Is it standard? I haven't read a lot about the new 6, other than the fact that it has the big 3.7L in it (unfortunate for economy). The 2.5 should be nice though!

mz6greyghost · July 2008

DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) is standard across the line.

I can understand the economy comment, but when Mazda went to redesign the 6 2+ years ago, fuel economy wasn't as big an issue as it is these days. Plus, I constantly exceed the current EPA numbers with the V6, and I don't see why I won't with the new 3.7L, all with more power and torque at my disposal.

thegraduate · July 2008

I can understand the economy comment, but when Mazda went to redesign the 6 2+ years ago, fuel economy wasn't as big an issue as it is these days.

It wasn't an issue years before that with the Accord and Camry redesigns, but they seem to have paid attention to the possibilities. I'd say that fuel economy has been on the minds of buyers since gas topped $2, and has weighed heavily in purchasing decisions since Hurricane Katrina (Sept 05 at $3 a gallon). Oh well - what's done is done; I won't dwell on that topic for everyone's sake!

Plus, I constantly exceed the current EPA numbers with the V6, and I don't see why I won't with the new 3.7L, all with more power and torque at my disposal.

Just as you could probably do with any other car's EPA estimates. I beat the estimates in my 2.4L 4-cylinder sedan (and I'm talking the OLD estimates) by a solid 3 MPG, 6 MPG if you look at the new numbers of 21/31 vs 24/34 when I got the car. I also beat them in our old 2000 model 3.5L minivan. It's my driving style and speed that is the cause of it.

I'd bet, for example if you beat the Mazda's estimate by 10%, you could the Camry as well (or any other midsize model), since your driving style is (for the sake of keeping it simple I'll keep the wording simple) 10% better than the EPA's estimate. The only difference is that the starting number for the Camry is notably higher. The difference is still there, whether you beat EPA numbers or not.

Oh yeah, and thanks for the answer to my original question

; I hadn't read that bit of info - good for Mazda for making it standard now.

jeffyscott · July 2008

2009 Camry, I4 automatic is rated at 21/31, the 2009 Mazda6, I4 auto is rated at 21/30. Accord does not yet have 2009 numbers, but 2008 is 21/31.

So what is the issue with fuel economy for the Mazda6. :confuse:

maxamillion1 · July 2008

Well I'm only 22, but I was warned by many of my friends about Chicago winters. I actually enjoyed the winter season there for the most part because we get much snow here in S. Carolina...but my car took a beating for it. The cold kinda caught me off guard too...We never have Sub zero temps in S. Carolina (excluding wind chill factor)

Anyone know when the embargo for the new 6 ends? I read on Autoblog (or was it leftlanenews) that it ends today...but I haven't seen any real online reviews for the car...just the normal initial press release style reviews.

maxamillion1 · July 2008

I'm thinking he's referring to the V6 Mazda6 models...they are rated at 17/25 I believe. But the I4, in automatic form is pretty much compeititve with everything else in this class.

backy · July 2008

The SACs mitigate the need for a helmet. And I am trying to avoid needing a neck brace... active head restraints (found now on front seats of most mid-sizers) help a lot there, protecting against whiplash.

mz6greyghost · July 2008

It wasn't an issue years before that with the Accord and Camry redesigns, but they seem to have paid attention to the possibilities. I'd say that fuel economy has been on the minds of buyers since gas topped $2, and has weighed heavily in purchasing decisions since Hurricane Katrina (Sept 05 at $3 a gallon). Oh well - what's done is done; I won't dwell on that topic for everyone's sake!

Neither will I, but I will say one thing then that's it. I tend to think that buyers of the V6 are aware of the fuel economy, but don't rank it very high on their lists in terms of importance as, per say, power and smoothness. I guess I fit into this category, since despite the rising costs of gasoline, it still won't change my preference of a V6 over a 4-cylinder.

The more economy-minded buyers will most likely not even consider the V6 anyway, and since just about all options are available to both the I (4-cylinder) and S (V6) models, they don't need to. Plus as stated previously, the 4-cylinder is very competitive in terms of fuel economy.

thegraduate · July 2008

In reply to all the above posts, yes, the 2.5L is competitive if not class leading. The V6 is what disappoints, falling 2-4 MPG behind the head of the class. I'd agree that obviously V6 buyers care less about MPG, and I4 buyers care about it more. I'd also bet that there are people who'd never consider a 4-cylinder acceptable smoothness/torque-wise and will therefore look for the best V6 economy they can get.

jeffyscott · July 2008

I'd also bet that there are people who'd never consider a 4-cylinder acceptable...

and I'd bet that group is shrinking about as fast as SUV and truck sales, with $4+ per gallon gas. IMO, if one is opting for a V6 in one of these cars, then mpg is clearly not the most important consideration...but, yes, the difference does seem significant for the V6. OTOH, the V6 buyers may be impressed by silly things like: 3.7 > 3.5, 272 > 268, and 269 > 248.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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