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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    I think it depends on what your daily drive is. if your daily drive involves stop and go city traffic, then I'd rather have an auto. ridding a clutch for 45 min without ever reaching 3rd is a pain in the [non-permissible content removed].

    In general though, I think a stick is always more fun to drive
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    2007 Accord VP $18,209
    2007 Accord SE $20,088
    2007 Acccord SEV6 $21,648
    2007 EX-LV6 25,278 leather,moonroof,alloys NO NAV

    Another large dealer

    Accord Vp $18,188
    Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $19,588
    Accord SE $20,089
    Accord EX-LV6 - $25,278 NO NAV
    ****
    Cars Direct Pricing - WITH AUTOMATIC AND DELIVERY INCLUDED!.
    Accord VP - CarsDirect Price: $16,883
    Accord LX - CarsDirect Price: $18,246
    Accord SE - CarsDirect Price: $18,884
    Accord LX V6 CarsDirect Price: $22,054
    Accord EX V6 CarsDirect Price: $23,762

    This completely blows a hole in the "too expensive" argument. Cars Direct isn't even as low as you can haggle, either. Perhaps you should shop around more? These are selling for significantly less than MSRP.

    Also, Cars direct adds the delivery into the price, and these all included automatic.
    Your dealer: Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $19,588
    Cars Direct: Accord LX 4cyl 5spd $16,928 (comparable price, since those weekend ads almost never include delivery) Even with delivery, it's $17,523. $2000 LESS.

    Accord VP 5Spd : CarsDirect Price: $16,161
    http://www.carsdirect.com/build/options?zipcode=91107&acode=USB70HOC011A0&restor- - e=false

    No haggling, guaranteed price. If your dealer is quoting a dime more than Cars Direct, shop elsewhere.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I really liked the ride and handling on the Mystake. Also it was a 5-speed stick with ABS and traction control, a very rare combination on a moderately-priced I4 car in 1995. But it was in the shop many times for various glitches and recalls. And the residual was ridiculous. So I didn't buy it after the 2-year lease ran out.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Maybe the other brands are GM, Ford & Chrysler.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I've always heard similar things about that car (the Contour, anyways). Based on what I've read (I've never driven one), the Contour offered dynamics similar to the Fusion, which is a good thing if you actually ENJOY driving :).

    A 5-speed manual with ABS and traction control is a big deal to find on a 4-cylinder car NOW, much less 1995. What a find!
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, although one of the things that always impressed me about the Gen 3 Elantra was that it offered that same combination (stick, ABS, traction) at a very low price point.

    Maybe the reason the Contique had such a good blend of ride and handling was that it, like the Focus, was designed to be a "world car", e.g. sold in Europe also, in this case as the Mondeo. I liked the way the Mystake drove so much that I almost bought a V6 model when they were being phased out, because I saw some offered (loaded) for around $12k. But then I thought about all the shop time. Plus I never found a V6 5-speed in a color I liked, at the closeout price. :blush:
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    This completely blows a hole in the "too expensive" argument.

    Hmm...does this completely blow a hole in the Honda does not put incentives on the Accord and lower the resale value arguement too :surprise: . Isn't it a sign of a problem with future resale value for the Accord when (based on 4 cyl SE) it is discountred more than a Fusion in CA? The Accord SE is selling at about $3500 below MSRP, while the Fusion is at about $2300 below MSRP.

    There must be some sort of dealer incentive in CA, In my zip code, the Accord SE Automatic shows up at $19,946 on cars direct. The comparable Fusion SE with AT and ABS is at $18,349 and the comparable Mazda6 SVE with AT is at $17,840.

    It's not a "too expensive" argument (at least not from me), that would be a subjective judgement. The fact is the Accord costs more than a Fusion or Mazda6, to some it is worth the extra cost to others it is not. I'd have passed on the Accord, even if the price were the same as a Mazda6. However, if the Accord were $2000 less than the 6, then I would have surely given it more consideration than I did.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Isn't it a sign of a problem with future resale value for the Accord when (based on 4 cyl SE) it is discountred more than a Fusion in CA?

    Well, considering the Accord's resale is best-in-class and that rebates are being offered only now that it is due for a complete overhaul, I'm gonna say it sure doesn't seem to be a problem. I'm not trying to sell my Accord at the moment, so I'm not going to talk about something in detail that I really don't know about for sure.

    Those selling their Accords (2003-2007) should feel free to chime in and fill us in though. I'd be interested to know if the rebates are making that big of a difference in resale.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Cars.com established the Lifestyle Awards to recognize which vehicles were best suited for the lifestyle needs of today's car buyers. After an exhaustive analysis, the 2007 Honda Accord was named the Best New Car for Small Families. According to Cars.com, "The Accord is the most well-rounded midsize sedan — the class of choice for families who want out of SUVs and their high fuel costs. The Accord has it all: good gas mileage, predicted reliability, quality, comfort, resale value and crash-test results. It's even a little sporty. The four-cylinder should do the trick for most buyers, and the optional V-6 will please the rest. The Accord is a best-seller, and for very good reasons."
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Have a four cylinder Optima, and IMHO, this is the only compelling deal with Kia. Unless they are REALLY discounted, I'd buy the Sonata if I was interested in a V-6. There is very little power difference between the six and four with the Optima. All you get is an older engine that is more complicated, has a timing belt, and uses more gas. If you want fancy, Kia does put a four into the EX. I was able to get an LX with after market leather (which looks very good), and seventeen inch Michelins for sixteen grand. Other than power seats it gives up little compared to the EX.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Today a dealer near me has an add for Mazda6 SVE, presumably manual trans, at $13,995 (can one get even a civic at this price?). This is about a $6000 discount from MSRP. The dealership with this ad is always very straightforward when they advertise prices (which they don't do very often), so pretty sure there are no games associated with this...the only ad-on (besides TTL) would be a $99 document/service fee. Clearly carsdirect is not giving a good price on this car...total discounts plus rebates of $5000-6000 off MSRP have been available all year.

    Honda dealers around here tend not to advertise purchase price much, instead they advertise leases. So I did not see any prices for that model. Three year leases for VP are advertised at $199, which is also advertised for Fusion S...both have similar deposits, etc. required. This is more evidence that for short-term owners there is little difference.

    For the Fusion, ads are showing only about $2500 off MSRP, including the $1000 rebate, for general customers. They have some special college student and lease renewal rebates also shown in the ads for another $1500 off.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    The 08 Accord combines Optima and Sonata styling clues. Where are those way ahead of the curve Accords of 20 years ago? Honda has become more and more conservative with each passing generation. Can't quite figure it out, but you can't question that it's successful for continuing to nab those that don't look at every possibility every time they buy a new car.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    The Accord has it all: good gas mileage, predicted reliability, quality, comfort, resale value and crash-test results. It's even a little sporty. The four-cylinder should do the trick for most buyers, and the optional V-6 will please the rest. The Accord is a best-seller, and for very good reasons

    You're preaching to the choir grad.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Honda has become more and more conservative with each passing generation.

    The Accord's styling has always been conservative. You think the 08 Accord is more conservative than the current Accord?

    Can't quite figure it out, but you can't question that it's successful for continuing to nab those that don't look at every possibility every time they buy a new car.

    So only people who don't consider other cars buy the Accord. Are we all just buying the name, not the car itself? You saying the Accord doesn't do well, in comparisons?
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    The 08 Accord combines Optima and Sonata styling clues. Where are those way ahead of the curve Accords of 20 years ago? Honda has become more and more conservative with each passing generation.

    Its just because of their target customer. IMO (and only my opinion) honda targets 40 something mid-level professionals with 2 or less kids. Kind of the poor mans BMW or mercedes.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Hmm...does this completely blow a hole in the Honda does not put incentives on the Accord and lower the resale value arguement too . Isn't it a sign of a problem with future resale value for the Accord when (based on 4 cyl SE) it is discountred more than a Fusion in CA? The Accord SE is selling at about $3500 below MSRP, while the Fusion is at about $2300 below MSRP.
    ****
    IIRC, there's no difference or discount out here. Just that there's a LOT of margin in Hondas between actual cost and MSRP. Several thousand in fact. Even the Fit has a good thousand or so margin.

    But I don't really care, either - if Cars Direct is selling it for that low, it's legitimate. I think the price difference is how close to a major city it is/some sort of delivery charge. Try typing in a major city like Saint Louis or Altanta.

    With Cars Direct, if they say "target price", it means they don't have it in actual inventory/a real price to offer you. When they have inventory sitting around, the discounts are much higher - so you often have to try several cities in your state to find the best price. And this is true for individual models as well - so an Accord VP may be hard to find, but a LX will be all different price ranges. But ther are some deals to be had. OR you can haggle, though Cars Direct is good to show them, because they have to beat it if they want to make a sale. :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, if we can continue to hash out the Ford commercial and its results, I figured I'd put out some real third party praise for the Accord, instead of my own.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    You're right that the present generation is more conservative, especially the early models whose rear quarters resembled Buicks. The new one is better.

    The late eighties cars were truly cutting edge. Far more daring than Camry's of the same era and way above most of the competition. That's no longer true.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't remember a non-conservative Accord since 1990. I don't mean they have been bad-looking (I'm partial to the 1994-1997 design) but they certainly have been conservative for nearly 20 years.
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    Agree completely, including that the 94-97's were the best looking of the bunch.
  • dinomartinidinomartini Member Posts: 5
    The Legacy is my personal favourite, its a really under rated Camry/Accord alternative. It is available with a six speed manual, looks really good, has a turbo charged engine, what more can you ask for? You actually control the car, when you steer the car you feel where it is on the road, you feel how its handling, how it is breaking. Instead of getting no response and completely unresponsive, mushy breaks on the Camry. The Camry is really just an appliance, a white good. It will never be as fun or good looking as the Legacy or Aura. It maybe good quality, but there is no soul there, no passion. Something I need in a car.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    not that invoice means too much (generally about MSRP*.9), but any car mfgr out there (that is making money), will generally not exceed 60% in direct mfg. costs including labor. So therefore this $20k Accord that invoices for $18k, likely costs Honda maybe $11k to make. This rest, of course, goes to cover overhead, insurances, taxes, and profit. If those kind of margins bother you, than you better stay home and keep your money in your mattress - these kind of margins are normal for anybody that actually manufactures almost anything. If you are expecting even GM/Ford/Chrysler to base pricing on actual cost to manufacture, or even feel that they aren't entitled to it - about all I can say is don't hold your breath.
    And sure, the fact that Honda is discounting a little more than usual right now on the last year before a model year change is not strange at all - and will have a negative effect on resale values - although I would be willing to bet that resale values won't go down (on a percentage basis) as much as the 'drive out' prices have - making them even more of a true 'value' then they were a year ago.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Well, considering the Accord's resale is best-in-class and that rebates are being offered only now that it is due for a complete overhaul, I'm gonna say it sure doesn't seem to be a problem.

    Someone else can probably verify but IIRC Accords were being discounted $3000 - $4000 last year during the end of the model year run. I do remember Edmunds showing a "Manufacturer to Dealer" "Marketing Support" incentive of $3000 and I'm pretty sure it was as high as $4000 at one time. As I understand it, this cash is not on the hood but is available to the dealer if they really need to make sales. So not everyone saw it when they bought an Accord during that time last year.

    I'm not writing this to imply that there's a problem with the Honda resale formula mind you. I just wanted to point out that they do at times offer a good bit of cash even if it is handed out at the dealer's discretion. Cash like that also allows them to print those outrageous ads showing a car for a crazy low price, then you walk in the door looking for that deal (the bait), and finally walk out with a different car (the switch). ;)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,152
    >Cash like that also allows them to print those outrageous ads showing a car for a crazy low price, then you walk in the door looking for that deal (the bait), and finally walk out with a different car (the switch).

    And you walk out with a whole lot less of the (secret) discount that most customers don't know about but the dealer knows to keep his hands on.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    I actually had a Honda dealer try to pull that one on me a few years ago. They were advertising a new Accord at a good price. Wife and I went and liked at the car, and, told the salesman we'd take it. The guy just walked away from us, and, never came back. After standing around for 30 minutes, we left and bought a similar car at another dealership.

    Regards:
    Oldengineer
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    And sure, the fact that Honda is discounting a little more than usual right now on the last year before a model year change is not strange at all -

    agreed. its easier for them to rebate heavily now at the end of this generations run. You have to figure all the design and engineering costs have been paid for. From what I understand, when a company makes a new car, or redesigns an existing one, the guess how many units they will sell of it. They use that number to spread all the development costs over. being as the accord probably sold a good bit more units than anticipated, it probably generates more profit than it did 3 years ago. and, there is more room to lower the price.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,152
    >You have to figure all the design and engineering costs have been paid for.

    But they need that profit to pay for the development of the new version!!!

    The logic doesn't wash about the discounting. They are incentives and they aren't even above board to all customers like other companies are.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I don't have a problem with them making a profit, just that Honda has a very hefty margin, especially when optioned out. It's not uncommon to see invoice and MSRP have a several thousand dollar spread, so there's tons of room to haggle if you bother to try.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I do remember Edmunds showing a "Manufacturer to Dealer" "Marketing Support" incentive of $3000 and I'm pretty sure it was as high as $4000 at one time. As I understand it, this cash is not on the hood but is available to the dealer if they really need to make sales. So not everyone saw it when they bought an Accord during that time last year.

    Try $750 for sedans and $1,000 for coupes last year. Not the thousands of dollars you claim. I'm pretty darn sure I'm not mistaken on this, but would love a link proving me otherwise.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Well, went to the nearest Kia dealer and was almost mugged! 4 guys ran out and tried to grab me away from each guy. finally I said I was only hear for a test drive, not to buy. So, I was stuck with the 18 year old kid..
    Took an Optima v6 loaded model out for a spin. Styling I would give it a B-. Fit/finish was actually very good. doors closed with a solid sound, panels looked all tight and well put together. Dash was well laid out. Plastics felt a little flimsy at places. Drove pretty nice however for a family sedan. Power of the V6 was ample. You weren't going to win any races, but it pulled the car just fine. Overall, not bad. Would I buy one. No, styling not for me. But for someone looking for a value family sedan
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    Today a dealer near me has an add for Mazda6 SVE, presumably manual trans, at $13,995 (can one get even a civic at this price?). This is about a $6000 discount from MSRP. The dealership with this ad is always very straightforward when they advertise prices (which they don't do very often), so pretty sure there are no games associated with this...the only ad-on (besides TTL) would be a $99 document/service fee. Clearly carsdirect is not giving a good price on this car...total discounts plus rebates of $5000-6000 off MSRP have been available all year.

    That's amazing that it's being the Mazda6 is being discounted so much already. Or pretty sad. But besides the good press at the beginning of the year (edmund's editors most desired sedan, consumer's digest sportiest cars), the 6 hardly gets a mention. Even in the last Altima Coupe review on Edmunds who's biggest point was it's sportiness, they chose to compare it to the Pontiac G6 (presumably because it is a coupe also) but not the true solid handling car in this segment the Mazda6. Most of the press that the 6 is getting over the last couple months has to do with the next generation which won't be released for another year! So I geuss I'm not surprised the Mazda6 is being discounted so much, but that does offer some good opportunities for the value shoppers or those who desire a stylish midsize car that's fun to drive.

    And captain... what is your source for saying a 20k accord costs 11k to manufacture :surprise: ? Sounds a bit off to me...
  • jm40jm40 Member Posts: 6
    i just drove the Aura XR yesterday (may 19).
    sweet ride! everybody keeps saying "camry, camry.." but honestly this car is awesome,,,

    plenty of power, looks great, the center dash layout (stereo/ac) looks real nice,, i was ready to buy it.

    only thing, after reading these forums i was expecting to get a little better deal. if he had offered better numbers i would have taken it despite the so-so mpg. the 20/28 mpg was the only real downer.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yes, I think the 6 is a great buy and a mostly a secret.
    I really only discovered the 6 myself because of the Fusion. I had really liked driving the contour and have ususally found Ford seats to be comfortable. So I was anxious to try the Fusion, thinking maybe it would be the new contour. I really liked driving the Fusion and seats were comfortable, but did not care for the appearance...so after finding out it was based on the 6, I tried out the better looking parent.

    I have a, just graduated, kid that may need to replace a car soon (my old '95 5 speed manual Contour with 150K mi), if she gets a job and needs a car to get to it, I just may encourage her to consider a new mazda6 rather than spending $4-5K on a junk-mobile...$14K for a nice new car like the Mazda6 SVE is a fantastic bargain, IMO.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    But they need that profit to pay for the development of the new version!!!

    thats part of the profits. the way I understand it, when pricing a car, the manufacture factors in the actual cost of production, a certain of profit margin, and the development and engineering costs divided by the number of units they expect to sell. Now, if the car sells twice as many units as expected, the pre-production costs will be paid much earlier and the profit margin will increase quite a bit. Hence, they can lower the price and still maintain the originally desired profit margin. That would explain the heavier discounting in the last year of production.

    thats just speculation on my part, but does seem to explain why the price of top selling cars seem to drop in the last year.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the 'Japanese'mfgrs. have a heftier profit margin because they are not so bogged down in 'suits', labor obligations etc. and because their US plants are newer and more efficient. Cost of production is less and the overhead is less. A situation that is changing as the 'American' mfgrs. become 'Canadian and Mexican' mfgrs. now largely operating out from under the UAW.
    GM in its 'banner year' of 05, it was said they were losing $2500.00 on every car they sold, a number that precisely equalled just their pension obligations per car. And a good part of that loss was due to GM having to 'sell' their cars at 20 or 30% discounts - quite a bit different situation than we are seeing with Honda right now. Invoice, that admittedly ficticious number, will generally always be between 10-15% below MSRP (2-3k in this group), I challenge you to name any car that is more than that (they are published numbers). Buying anything based simply on how much 'haggling' you can do, is however, dangerous in that you are much more likely to end up with an inferior product, and also may not really be saving you any money at all simply because cheap now will usually equal cheap later. I feel sorry for those folks that ran out and bought a 6 let's say at 'invoice' only to find the same car available several months later for 3 or 4 grand cheaper eefectively getting 'upside down' on their car notes in a real hurry- a chance you really take when that badge doesn't say Honda or Toyota.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I've always heard similar things about that car (the Contour, anyways). Based on what I've read (I've never driven one), the Contour offered dynamics similar to the Fusion, which is a good thing if you actually ENJOY driving.

    I actually found the Contour to be more aggressive than the Fusion. The 95-97 SE V6 MTX had a default sport suspension that was, well, sporty. Doing dumb things (lifting in a turn) brought the back end around, but using good form (trail braking, etc) got the car to rotate perfectly. It proved to be a great companion for HPDEs and autocrosses as well as a daily driver.
    The Fusion, relative to the Contour, is similar to the 90-93 Accord vs the current Accord design. A bit bigger, a bit more bloated, a bit more sluggish and a bit more bland. Also the Fusion handles more like a Japanese car while the Contour felt more like a European car.
    As long as I am chiming in, I also think the 90-93 Accord was a high point for Honda, and I think the next generation (94-96 or 7?) was the low point. I can definitely see Saturn L300 in the front end of the spy shots for '08, and 5-series in the huge flanks. Not a bad thing necessarily, just noted.
  • thenebeanthenebean Member Posts: 1,124
    i probably should have said the 2006 model, and not the new one that just came out :P

    -thene
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    Try $750 for sedans and $1,000 for coupes last year. Not the thousands of dollars you claim. I'm pretty darn sure I'm not mistaken on this, but would love a link proving me otherwise.

    I can't provide you with a link because Edmunds does not keep a history. It may have been for 2005 models that were left over but I know it was that high because we were considering getting one for a short time.

    Take a look at current dealer cash for 2006 Acuras if you don't believe Honda would offer so much cash off on their vehicles.

    Starting at post 7580 in the now "read only" "Has Honda's Run - run out?" thread you'll find discussion about it too.

    That's about all I can give you right now.
  • dsiriasdsirias Member Posts: 34
    I factory ordered a Mazda 6i hatch limited from the factory ( as there was not one grand touring with a manual transmission in the entire state of CA). Someone on the Mazda Board said it would take about 6 weeks for delivery, which is in line with what the dealer said. My question is, when the car arrives, how long of a test drive should I take before signing the paperwork? How much testing does the dealer do to make sure the factory has delivered a car free of mechanical issues?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I feel sorry for those folks that ran out and bought a 6 let's say at 'invoice' only to find the same car available several months later for 3 or 4 grand cheaper...

    Actually the 2007 Mazda6 has had the same $2000 rebate since about November, so few would have sold for much more than invoice minus that $2000. Prices seem to have gone as much as $1500 to $2500 lower...but I don't think everyone is getting a price this low. So I think there is a much smaller differential than 3-4 grand...more like a $2000ish range for most.

    Just a few posts back Accords were found to be going for discounts of $3500 or even more...which is $1500 or more below invoice. Why is this not also an issue for the Accord buyer? Surely some had paid invoice or perhaps even $500 above invoice 6 months ago.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    And captain... what is your source for saying a 20k accord costs 11k to manufacture
    no source in particular, just my understanding of the manufacturing business in general dating all the way back to B-school back a long time ago. If anything, it would actually surprise me if that $11k wasn't high. These are not likely numbers that the mfgrs. are ever going to want public. If Honda can build the Accord in Ohio cheaper than Ford can build a Fusion in Mexico, which may be the case - Honda sure as heck wouldn't want us to know that (or vice versa) , don't you think? Remember that I'm talking only about direct mfg. cost and nothing more.
    As for 'pretty sad' I agree.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    Why is this not also an issue for the Accord buyer?
    It should be, but also something that usually happens with any model from any manufacturer before a redesign. Just think what must be happening with 07 Malibu prices right now, as the 08 Aura clone has already beeen announced.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    At no point in 2006 (or 2005) for that matter, has there been an cash incetive of $3000-4000 on any Accord. Let's not get Acura in the picture, the RL has always been a slow seller and had even bigger rebates than present.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    At no point in 2006 (or 2005) for that matter, has there been an cash incetive of $3000-4000 on any Accord.

    I say there was. It could have only been for certain markets as I did see it on Edmunds' own incentive page. That thread I linked referred to the cash as well.

    I am offering you some form of proof, weak as it may be, and all you can say back is that it didn't happen? Thanks for your insight but I know what I saw. :P
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    That thread I linked referred to the cash as well.
    gotta go with accordman on this one - what I saw listed for Hondas had to do with the Ridgeline truck and the S2000 only and weren't rebates at all - instead mfgr. to dealer incentives. What Honda has to do to sell Acuras OTH has very little relevance to Accords, there is a whole lot more profit in the upper tier brands. In any case, it should be noted however, that it is possible to buy an Accord for some number slightly below invoice, an unusual occurence to be sure and something that will not likely be possible when the 08s get here.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    These are not likely numbers that the mfgrs. are ever going to want public. If Honda can build the Accord in Ohio cheaper than Ford can build a Fusion in Mexico, which may be the case - Honda sure as heck wouldn't want us to know that (or vice versa) , don't you think? Remember that I'm talking only about direct mfg. cost and nothing more.

    Considering these companies are publicly traded and are required by GAAP and the SEC to report their operations in a specific fashion, I think its safe to say an informed bean counter could easily tell you, within an acceptable tolerance of a few bucks, what the COGS of each unit is.

    Why do you think that # is secret?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I'd be willing to believe $4,000 below sticker. Accords are selling for that today, at my local Honda dealer (and yours too, probably).

    $4,000 below invoice would put an Accord EX V6 at something like $21,000, or below the sticker of an Accord with drum brakes and hubcaps. You may have seen what you say you saw (you see? :) sorry for the alliteration) but I can't honestly wrap my mind around an Accord for about $12,000, which is what a Value Package Accord would be with $4,000 below invoice. That would be cheaper than the Fit without cruise control, and $3,000 below the price of a Civic without a radio or A/C. I really think you believe what you are saying, but with all due respect, I don't believe at any point in the last 10 years you could buy an Accord for $12,000/$4,000 under invoice.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I just may encourage her to consider a new mazda6 rather than spending $4-5K on a junk-mobile...$14K for a nice new car like the Mazda6 SVE is a fantastic bargain, IMO.

    I really agree with your logic. $4,000 would buy a high-mileage 10 year old Honda (that's a lot of money for a car with 150,000 miles). My car is worth $3,600 or so "According" :) to Kelley Blue Book (1996 Accord LX Auto, 4-cyl, 173,000 miles).

    This week, the radiator went out, something that cost more than $500. These types of repairs/replacements are bound to happen on cars of this age/mileage, so buying a reliable $14k car is probably at least as financially sound as buying a $4,000 car that will need some repairs sooner than later.
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    Well look at the math. Let's say it costs 11k per accord and the median profit per car is 7k. Let's use 300k Accords sold in the US per year, that's 2.1 billion in profit. Assume they broke even on the other 700k cars sold in the US (which I highly doubt), yet that 2.1 billion is 3 times greater than their posted global profit of 609 million last year. Hmmmm....
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Sounds about right to me. Of course, shipping(they eat a chunk of it to keep their shipping in line with the domestics) and prep and such eats into it, and the warranty coverage and so on, so figure $11K on that VP plus 3-4K in overhead. I've seen the VP going for $15K at the end of the year, so that's probably their real bottom line(and trust me - a VP - the guys will take ANY offer on it since it's a lot anchor in most major cities.

    Oh - and ~30% of the VPs are made in Japan. If you can get one made there instead of the U.S., it's a slightly better car in terms of fit and finish. Or go U.S. - it's a nice car if you get it in a dark color so the non-body colored accents don't immediately make it obvious.

    Oh - one last thing - the steel wheels on the Civic and Accords weigh exactly the same as the alloys. You're paying purely for bling with factory alloys, so if you want to really save weight, go aftermarket.
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