Midsize Sedans 2.0

mz6greyghost · March 2009

Genesis Jr., anyone?

Despite that, I like it. Not so sure how big the trunk opening is with the rear window that far back... The only other thing is the taillights are HUGE.

I'll have to see it in person, but it is a nice update to the current Sonata (which IMO is a handsome car now).

backy · March 2009

I think the front is a LOT sleeker than the previous-gen Camry--obviously influenced by the Genesis. The profile to me is reminiscent of the VW CC. I don't see any resemblance to the Mazda3--many cars have a crease through the door handles. The rear? It looks like Hyundai is determined to have the biggest tail lamps in the mid-sized sedan market.

How about powerplants? A hybrid is confirmed. There will likely be a V6 for the US market. But I would like to see one of Hyundai's new GDi turbocharged four-cylinder engines in the Sonata. I have read about their 167-horsepower 1.6-liter GDi with stop-start, and a dual-clutch six-speed transmission, targeted for the next-gen Tucson. If it can haul a Tucson around, it should be able to handle a Sonata.

m6user · March 2009

I see Mazda6 in the front shape/fenders and some Malibu from the side and maybe some Beemer in the taillights but its hard to tell without a good rear view. I also see some Maxima in the headlights.

Overall, it's a radical departure from the very conservative present style but it looks very stylish and more in tune with current styles. Hope it ends up looking like that and the US gets the same car as S. Korea.

backy · March 2009

Keep in mind that the front and the rear details are artist's renderings at this point. We know the side profile is as per the renderings because there have been several spy shots of the actual car that show the new profile, with the side crease. And a horizontal-bar grille can be seen through the spy car wrappings. All else is speculation.

Malibu? I have no idea where you see any Malibu in the new Sonata. The Malibu has slab sides and a much different roof profile.

Sandman6472 · March 2009

We all seem to think different parts of the car look like other cars on the market now. I do like the crease down the side of the car...looks like the upcoming Mazda 3 sedan which I'm hoping the wife will choose for her next ride actually. Wish she'd like the current Sonata but the size is a bit bigger than she wants to go. Saw a new '09 in the showroom last week in that mid blue color with the alloy wheels and it was very impressive looking. The new dash layout is a winner also.

The Sandman :shades:

elroy5 · March 2009

I see a LOT of Lexus LS 460 in the front, and the roof-line. Just as the current Sonata lookes similar to the old Lexus LS 450.

backy · March 2009

Then you see a LOT of Lexus LS 460 in the Genesis also, since the rendering is basically the front of the Genesis grafted onto the shell of the new Sonata, which has been exposed in spy shots.

kdshapiro · March 2009

You're one of the few that missed it. Every manufacturer has these duds. Which is why I'm hesitant about buying certain domestics.

cannon3 · March 2009

Nice rendition of the 2010 Sonata. I think this will stop the critics of the Sonata being bland and not standing out in the crowd complaints. :surprise:

elroy5 · March 2009

Then you see a LOT of Lexus LS 460 in the Genesis also

Yes, I think you could almost switch hoods from the Lexus to the Hyundai, without much changing. I guess it's hard to come up with an original design, but I don't know if Lexus is the style I would emulate. If I were to look at other cars for inspiration, I would go more MB, BMW, or Audi, rather than Lexus styling. Something totally original would be nice, but it doesn't seem like mainstream cars get the design budget for that.

backy · March 2009

After so many years it's hard to come up with something totally original. In the family sedan class (and luxury sedans also), conservative styling seems to win out over over-the-top efforts. That's why you see so many common design elements. For instance, how many cars have used the bent C-pillar used by BMW and many many many others? Accord, Altima, and Passat all have it now (and Genesis, since it came up, although it's not in this class).

Personally I don't see the LS in the Genesis/Sonata front, but you see what you see.

vanman1 · March 2009

Wow, the power seat function really did you in for the Malibu huh?

To say you LIKE the Accord better is fine but to say it is "head and shoulders better" is absurd and unsubstantiated. ANY magazine or review you can pick up would disagree and I think most posters here would disagree also. I think the fact that you said you would "never buy a GM" indicates you had your mind made up before you sat in the car which is fine, but it's not objective or reality. Pointing to sales numbers is also not fair because Malibu has only been out with a competitive car for a year and a half, Accord has been out with a good car for years.

Like you say though, it's your opinion. I think the Accord was a great sedan but these days it's not the standout it used to be and the latest version was a disappointment to me as the looks are only so so and the dash is too busy. That's my opinion but more objectively, I do not think any car in this segment is head and shoulders above the others. These days it's more about personal taste.

vanman1 · March 2009

" Comparing the Malibu's available V6 to Accord's well-liked V6 "The Accord and Malibu perform about as similarly as possible: 0 to 60 is a push; the quarter mile goes to the Accord by a tenth; 60 to 0 to the Malibu by four feet; lateral acceleration separated by a scant 0.01 g; and a figure-eight advantage to the Chevy by 0.4 second. It's plausible that the numbers represent two runs by the same car." -- Motor Trend "

The V6 is very fast, GM dropped the 3.6L from the Caddy CTS into it. I tried the 4 cyl / 6-speed but after a ride in the V6 I knew I couldn't be a "green guy".

thegraduate · March 2009

Well, its the same basic design from the Buick Lacrosse, GMC Acadia sisters, CTS, STS, SRX, Malibu, G6 GXP, etc. as well as the Malibaura. It's more than a CTS engine, for sure.

It's the new "corporate V6" from GM, like Ford's "corporate V6" in the Fusion Sport, Taurus, Edge, Flex, etc... and the Honda "corporate V6" in the Accord, Odyssey, Pilot, Ridgeline, Acura TL, TSX, etc... I could go on and on, but I won't. :shades:

Sandman6472 · March 2009

The power seat had nothing to do with turning in the Malibu...why would you jump to such a conclusion? And no, I had already rented other GM products such as the Lacrosse, G6 and an Aura before the Malibu, so I had no preconceived notions about any GM car sir. All these cars had the mileage in the low 12k area and I'm basing my opinion on "my experiences". But you seem to know what is objective/reality eventhough I lived it and you didn't...jeez. Maybe you should head on up to Washington and fix the country since you seem to know so much about everything!

And I stand by my earlier statement..."the numbers don't lie...they show what people want".

The Sandman :shades:

imidazol97 · March 2009

The rentals seem to be the base car. The idea of bidding for rentals is to get them for the least amount of money so the Hertz, Avis, Alamo, etc., can stay in business by making more money in take from the end consumer.

Selling these with the barest minimum of quality items makes more money for the selling company. Comparing the minimum rental to a high line 4-cyl consumer sale Toyota is apples to oranges where the balance in a 4-cyl is more better front to rear and for handling with the lighter weight in the front. And often people have their own personal feelings and preferences from their being used to certain things about a car that affect their perceptions. I understand that and how it colors things. It's okay if you like your Honda better.

dave8697 · March 2009

Chevrolet Malibu - What the Auto Press Says
The 2009 Chevrolet Malibu ranks 1 out of 23 Affordable Midsize Cars. This ranking is based on our analysis of 66 published reviews and test drives of the Chevrolet Malibu, and our analysis of reliability and safety data.

You now know what 'objective' really means.

vanman1 · March 2009

So disagreeing with you implies I am a know it all. I see.

Numbers actually do lie all the time and rarely (if ever) tell the whole story. If you think they don't lie you know nothing about statistics or their analysis.

As I said, your negetive comments on the Malibu are unsubstantiated. They are purely your opinion which as I said was FINE. Drive your Accord, whatever.

lightfootfl · March 2009

From the side, makes me wonder why we (?) want to have the doors stretched to the roof, eliminating (somewhat) the side windows. Personally I like larger side windows in both the front and rear. Probably not the most popular idea but I would rather be able to see out without the use of a periscope as is the case in many of the newer offerings. Obviously my personal opinion. I guess I missed the rear view with the larger lights.

van

stephen987 · March 2009

Lightfootfl, I'm with you on side windows. I can't see out of a Chrysler 300 to save my neck. One of the things I like about older Accords (not so much the ones built 2003 or later) is that I can see out of them, to the front, side, and rear. I don't like the "bunker" feeling I get with so many of the newer cars--it's like they think we'll feel safer if we can't see what's Out There. Who cares about actually being safer by having the information we need in order to react quickly?

jeffyscott · March 2009

I don't know what it supposedly looks like, but it looks good. Might become the besting looking one in this group (to me), if those renderings become reality.

backy · March 2009

I prefer larger side windows also, but those appear to be on the way out. Look at recent redesigns: Camry, Accord (to some extent), Passat CC, Mazda6, Malibu, and now Sonata are making the doors taller and windows shorter. Is it just for style, or are there some other advantages e.g. crash protection?

thegraduate · March 2009

backy · March 2009

A big difference from 20 years ago, but not a very big difference from the previous generation (re size of side windows):

elroy5 · March 2009

Many things have changed, in the name of safety. Higher doors, doors that are farther away from you, thicker A pillars, etc. Would you give up the safety, for a better view? I don't think I would.

backy · March 2009

If it were a choice of safety vs. a better view (which could be argued to be a safety feature in its own right), I'd take safety. But there are ways to design cars with both.

lilengineerboy · March 2009

Look at how much lower the '92-93 is compared to the '09. I think that is how they took away the sporty feel, they made it shaped like a boat and you are sitting in the hull as opposed to feeling like a skate board and you are sitting just off the ground.

berri · March 2009

The rentals seem to be the base car

My experiences with Hertz is that you won't get a JBL premium sound package on most of them, but you won't get a stripped cheapo like Enterprise either. A Hertz Impala for example usually has power everything, leather and often a sunroof (although I'd just as soon skip the latter because for some reason GM big cars have no headroom when they have a sunroof).

vanman1 · March 2009

I think smaller windows and bigger doors offer better side protection but I may be wrong. I remember reading something to that effect in the past. That said, I went from my Intrigue with big windows to my Malibu with smaller windows and I was used to it in a few days.

explorerx4 · March 2009

my fusion was hit in the back bumper last week.
i have never liked that the back of the car is very tall, but after watching someone drive into the back of my car, i am thinking the tall rear deck helps if something taller than an explorer hit the back of the car.

elroy5 · March 2009

I think that is how they took away the sporty feel,

Would you trade the safety, for that "sporty feel"? With the advent of side airbags, we sit farther away from the door. And since metal gives more protection in a crash than glass, the doors are higher. I think these two factors detract from the "sporty feel" just as much or more than the ride height. I don't think the 03 rides that much higher off the road than the 92 did.

lilengineerboy · March 2009

Ford added cow-catchers to the front of its SUVs years back to help the frame of the SUV hit the bumper of the car. That is where the force is designed to transfer so the car's unibody can most effectively absorb it.

The decklid height itself doesn't have a whole lot to do with it.

We got bumped in the Subaru when it was still pretty much brand new, and the bumper of an E-150 hit the Subaru Legacy wagon about perfect, it ripped the bumper cover but that was about it. The van had gotten hit by a Trailblazer that hit in the lower 1/3 of the barn doors, totally missing the bumper. There was a lot of damage there.

lilengineerboy · March 2009

With the advent of side airbags, we sit farther away from the door.

No, we don't. 6" is 6", cars with side airbags just have something that absorbs more force in-between.

And since metal gives more protection in a crash than glass, the doors are higher.

Not really. In a crash, there are two issues, penetration and force. I would point out that the old school Saturns were considered very safe for the time and had no metal. Ditto the Smart car. You need to have a way to prevent penetration as much as possible (side door beams), and absorb force (airbags).

I don't think the 03 rides that much higher off the road than the 92 did.

There is a 5" difference in vehicle height, I need to look back at my old Road and Track for the ride height itself. With the '93 behind the '07, the '93 would drive under it.

explorerx4 · March 2009

i was thinking if something bigger hit it.
the hit bent one of the tailpipes, so it was almost underneath the bumper cover.

maxamillion85 · March 2009

I just love the Accord EXLV6 6spd manual.

backy · March 2009

Do you have the coupe or sedan?

One note on the 2010 Sonata is that it is reported to offer 6-speed trannies across the board. I wonder what trims the 6MT will be available on? Would be neat to see it offered on the SE trim with its sport tuned suspension.

stephen987 · March 2009

I would bet that there won't be a 6mt at all--that there will be a 6at on all trim levels.

backy · March 2009

Nah, there will likely be an MT for at least the base trim, if for nothing else as a "loss leader" so a low "starting at" price can be advertised. And there was a time when the MT was offered on the SE (I4 only I think) trim. Actually it was MT only for a time. Probably didn't sell many cars that way, but it was a nice thought.

tallman1 · March 2009

Do you have the coupe or sedan?

If he was talking about the current generation Accord, it is a coupe. You can't get a manual on the V6 in the sedan. You do get VCM in the sedan and not the coupe though. But I know you know all that.

backy · March 2009

Now that you mention it I do remember the MT was dropped from the V6 sedan, but I didn't know there's no VCM in the coupe. Thanks.

thegraduate · March 2009

There is VCM in the V6 coupe. Just not the 6-speed manual model.

tallman1 · March 2009

Yes, I didn't make that very clear. VCM and a manual don't go together.

And manual and sedan don't go together, in the V6 flavor. Thank goodness the manual is still offered in all trims of the I4!

maxamillion85 · March 2009

I have neither Backy...just a plain ole Altima 2.5S with a few options.

But I was talking about the Silver Accord EXLV6 6spd sedan Elroy posted a picture of.
All the power of the V6 in the sedan with the control of the slick 6spd. I've been looking at new Accords...but I may look and see what kind of deal I can get on an 06 or 07 EXLV6 6spd sedan.

I'm somewhat surprised the Sonata will have a 6spd manual...its true that the SE I4 was at one time manual only but from Hyundai website it seems the Sonata I4 is now automatic primarily...but you can order a I4 with manual. I'm willing to bet the ONLY Sonata in the next generation to be offered with the manual will be a bare bones GLS. It's sad that the manual transmission is dying.

lightfootfl · March 2009

I know what you mean about "they are all doing it" (my words). That still doesn't make it right in my mind. I would rather see the upcoming accident, than be surprised by it. Safety should be built into the doors/frames/whatever and still keep the larger windows. I know many people like the "slots in a box" styling, but I certainly don't, which was my point. You couldn't give me one of those Chryslers that is built like that. Again, that is my personal opinion, and we all have one of those even if they are all varied. I am happy to see there are others that feel a little bit like I do anyway. Now if the designers would just rethink their designs...hmmmm dream on, I know. By the way, I like the windows that roll all the way down too.
van

jeffyscott · March 2009

It's a smaller car than this discussion is about, but one that seems to me to have those old-time bigger windows is the Suzuki SX4.

I'm used to the more modern styling myself. I rode in someone's Pilot recently and those giant picture windows and all that empty space above my head made me nervous

, plus I got a headache from too much bright sunlight

.

akirby · March 2009

It's not safety - it's just a styling direction.

lightfootfl · March 2009

EXACTLY my point.
van

cannon3 · March 2009

heard if Ford is moving ahead with a 2door Fusion coupe? Milan coupe?
Manual transmissions are falling by the wayside. With the 5speed/6speed automatics coming out they give just as good MPG. Traffic is another reason people are moving more towards automatics. Market trends are also away from manual transmissions. I know its a bummer for those who like the control and the thrill of upshifting/downshifting. But a manual will always be available in sports cars..

thegraduate · March 2009

The main reason people buy a manual isn't necessarily to save money, but rather, to be involved in driving. I certainly understand it, although I didn't choose a MT this time, I'm not sure I wouldn't next time.

And yes, there are sports cars with manuals, but some of us can't buy cars just for that! Unless you have some $ to share... :shades:

lilengineerboy · March 2009

All the imported mid-size 4 cylinders are available with manuals, as are the Fulans. Pretty much its only GM that abandoned that market, not that it was a big one or anything. The cool thing is they are almost all 6 speed manuals, except for the Honda.

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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