Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

1…2122242627…544

Comments

  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    " I really liked driving the Fusion and seats were comfortable, but did not care for the appearance..."

    I agree, the Fusion is either a like or dislike for its styling. Isn't it nice to have choice? ;)
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Isn't it nice to have choice?

    There were plenty of choices to consumers before the Fusion came along. I chose a Taurus once and that turned into a costly mistake. Now I choose to buy Hondas.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    gotta go with accordman on this one - what I saw listed for Hondas had to do with the Ridgeline truck and the S2000 only and weren't rebates at all - instead mfgr. to dealer incentives.

    If you go back and read the older posts you'll note that I did say the $3000-$4000 I saw for the Accord last year was "marketing support" or "dealer cash".

    Again, it could have been a regional thing so maybe a lot of you didn't see it. I did not look at other zips across the country to see if it was a National thing either. I was shopping for a car last summer and did see it. I was only looking at a V6 too so that may play into it somewhat but I don't think they change the amount based on the trim level.

    I'm only seeing $750 in dealer cash right now but the summer has just begun.

    In my experience when you see vehicles selling for thousands less than the sticker price then the mfr is kicking some money into the dealer pot in some way. Especially for a Honda. We've only owned one but I've dealt with Honda salesmen on 3 different occasions. Getting them to budge on price is no minor feat. YMMV.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    well it may be 2.1 billion of profit if you only consider manufacturing cost. There is much much more cost associated with running any sort of business - including administration (the suits), paying their utility bills, taxes, health care/pension programs etc. etc. etc. Does it take a great big chunk out of your 2.1 billion, sure seems to doesn't it? Hmmmmm, but understand what I was talking about, the actual direct cost of manufacturing (materials and labor) an automobile (this being an estimate) - NOT the total cost including any overhead. This all in response to a poster that seems to think that there is so much NET profit in an automobile that a 'good deal' can't be had unless some manufacturer is dropping his drawers with some outrageous rebate and/or financing programs. These kind of expectations are really a 'Detroit' car phenomena and will continue to haunt those mfgrs for years to come (when you shop the Camcord, for example, you expect to negotiate from MSRP, do the same thing with a Fusibu then you expect (and generally receive) discounts to some number well below invoice. And then they wonder why they continue to lose their arss in the car business and further have suspect resale values! Give me a break - but it does lend some truth to the adages that 'you get what you (are willing) to pay for' and 'cheap ain't (necessarily) good'.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    what is current on the Accord, I believe is $0 rebate and $0 ($750 if this is correct is rather inconsequential on a $20k car, don't you think?) dealer incentive but a slightly bought down interest rate (3% and 5%) or so 'to highly qualified buyers.' One wonders how 'qualified' those buyers must be and/or how much down is required, but it sure does avoid those loose credit issues that afflicted both Ford and Mitsubishi not too long ago when they decided to sell cars to anybody that had a pulse.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    The $750 is what you know about, if they are selling for $1500 below invoice there is likely more that we do not know about.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    I agree with what you say from a good accountant's perspective, cost of materials are generally an easy number to glean off a financial statement, labor costs (and the assocaited costs that go with that) a little tougher to segregate which of those costs were actually incurred directly from production. What is acutally contained in COGS (cost of goods sold) is somewhat variable within established accounting principles and techiques.
    However, I think the general reaction to Honda if they do only spend 11k (and I think it may easily be somewhat less than that) making a car that they sell for 20k, will be more like zzzom6's - they somehow think they are getting ripped off something that is not the case at all. Not good PR for Honda or any manfacturer for the public to understand the economics of a durable goods manufacturing operation IMO.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    There were plenty of choices to consumers before the Fusion came along. I chose a Taurus once and that turned into a costly mistake. Now I choose to buy Hondas.

    Of course, the point is that is is nice to have some alternate body styles to choose from. Ford, GM, and Chysler do this without necessarily having to pay a premium price. For example, if one does not like the Fusion, perhaps they find the Milan appealing.

    Honda and Toyota only let you do so if you pay up for Acura or Lexus. With the volume of Accords and Camrys they sell, they could certainly choose to offer the customer more choices in the mid-size moderately priced category.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    jeff- now that's a 'bunker mentality' if I ever heard one! New auto sales are 'losers' for about every dealersip known to mankind - they make their money in the service and used car depts. Had a good friend that had existing Toyota and Nissan dealerships, was really looking forward to opening his new Ford franchise next door and it had nothing to do with making money 'selling' new Fords...
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    :confuse:
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    I chose a Taurus once and that turned into a costly mistake. Now I choose to buy Hondas.

    An interesting quote. We must be outside of the norm because neither my wife or I have ever owned a Honda or a Toyota. We have, however, owned two Mazdas, a new 1977 GLC (puddle jumper) bought new and a 2000 Miata convertible bought new. Both were fine cars but we bought a 2007 SEL AWD Fusion this time, $27,105 MSRP.

    That decision was based on several factors. We really liked the styling, inside and out. We have generally had good luck with Ford products. The professional reviews of the Fusion have been good. We considered the Accord and Camry to be out of our price range. The Asian cars also strike us as having "plain Jane" styling. There is a certain "sameness" to them all.

    But what I am curious about goes to the quote. Your bad experience with a Taurus drove you to Honda. While Honda and Toyota build some fine cars -- that is a given -- it is still possible to get one that is troublesome.

    Would a bad experience with a Honda drive you (or anyone) toward something from the "Big 3" or would you (they) still stick with Honda? How deep does brand loyalty go?

    We own two other Fords, a 1997 Thunderbird with 86,000 miles on it and a 2000 Focus station wagon with 92,000 miles on it. Neither has been trouble free but neither has had a major problem either (knock on wood).

    It will be interesting to see if our Fusion lives up to its reliability billing and/or equals our other two Ford products in that area. Right now, according to published reports, the Fusion is earning a high "conquest" rating. Buyers are trading in makes other than Fords at a significant rate.

    These "converts" tell me that Ford is doing something right with the Fusion. I hope it continues. If the Fusion continues to equal or better the reliability rating of Accord and Camry we will be happy campers.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I just may encourage her to consider a new mazda6 rather than spending $4-5K on a junk-mobile...$14K for a nice new car like the Mazda6 SVE is a fantastic bargain, IMO.

    I think basic reliable recent used car transportation is about 7-8k unless you are handy. 7-8k will be a couple year old Focus or Protege or a "rolla with some miles. I think starting out in life with no car payment helps a lot. If you are handy and can take hand-me-downs and/or can cherry-pick craigslist bottom feeders, your maintenance costs are like a small car payment.

    This week, the radiator went out, something that cost more than $500. These types of repairs/replacements are bound to happen on cars of this age/mileage, so buying a reliable $14k car is probably at least as financially sound as buying a $4,000 car that will need some repairs sooner than later.

    Wow, I haven't found a radiator that costs more than $100. I am used to looking for them because thats an 7-8 year Accord/Civic item. Installs pretty easily, it takes about 30 minutes in a stick without AC, about 2x that with AC.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    "I say there was. It could have only been for certain markets as I did see it on Edmunds' own incentive page. That thread I linked referred to the cash as well.

    "I am offering you some form of proof, weak as it may be, and all you can say back is that it didn't happen? Thanks for your insight but I know what I saw."

    No sir, there was never any kind of rebate, be it manufacturer to dealer or whatever, to the tune of 3-4k for Accords, anywhere in the US. If you have any proof of it being there, please post it.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I think basic reliable recent used car transportation is about 7-8k...I think starting out in life with no car payment helps a lot.

    Yes, but 7-8K or even 3-5 is not going to equal no car payment for many (such as my daughter) just starting out. She did get a one time freebie, but she has pretty well worn it out. Partly this is because she drove more than I had expected she would, it was at about 100K when she got it and I had anticipated it would be at maybe 120K by the time she was done with college and would still have maybe a year or two of life left in it. I'm really not sure how she managed to get 10K miles per year on it.

    By coicidence, the one expensive repair she had was also a $500 radiator at Ford dealer. She happened to be out of town when it happened so we had her get a tow to nearest Ford dealer...not knowing where else to go, plus I was figuring the car had overheated and was going to be dead anyway. Later, I found out this would have been maybe a $300 job at a radiator shop.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229

    No sir, there was never any kind of rebate, be it manufacturer to dealer or whatever, to the tune of 3-4k for Accords, anywhere in the US. If you have any proof of it being there, please post it.

    I already said I can't prove it because it is now gone. If you don't want to believe me or prove me wrong otherwise then I suggest this be dropped because all it is now is a he said he said ordeal which is boring.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    what is current on the Accord, I believe is $0 rebate and $0 ($750 if this is correct is rather inconsequential on a $20k car, don't you think?) dealer incentive but a slightly bought down interest rate (3% and 5%) or so 'to highly qualified buyers.

    That's your region. Now look at my region.

    Did I say $750 was something to get excited about somewhere? Because I don't recall typing that and I really don't think it is. The $3000 I saw last year was and almost convinced me to buy an Accord.

    Why are you guys having such a hard time with this? Honda does offer some high incentives at times. They don't seem to last long and they certainly are not the same as the piles of cash on the hood the domestics offer, but they are significant if you catch them at the right time.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Well, I don't think anyone can prove something does not, or did not, exist, but I do agree that it's time this be dropped. :)
  • victrolajazzvictrolajazz Member Posts: 75
    it seems like automakers in general have taken to minimizing the carpeting in their vehicles

    I love my Altima 3.5 SE--but I could swear my 1990 Ford Festiva LX has what would be a more expensive grade of carpet than the Altima...
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    I love my Altima 3.5 SE--but I could swear my 1990 Ford Festiva LX has what would be a more expensive grade of carpet than the Altima...
    The carpeting in our MSRP $27,105 2007 SEL AWD Fusion is not as good as what's in our 2000 Focus station wagon. The Fusion's rug is mighty flimsy, a disappointment.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Still, a good used car is always going to make more sense financially than a new one.

    So you had a $300 repair. That's not even one month's payment on most economy cars! I hear peolpe saying "My transmission went out - it was $1600 to fix(old GM or Ford)" - well, that's 4 months of car payments, give or take.

    Payments add up fast and few old cars ever need even more than a thousand a year in the worst case to keep running.

    JeffyScott: If she needs another car, look at a 5-6 year old Buick LeSabre. Big tank that she can get for cheap and will easily last upwards of 200K miles. Cheap to fix and maintain as well, plus dirt cheap insurance rates.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    That's your region. Now look at my region.

    I'm confused, I just see 2.9-4.9% and $750 dealer incentive there.

    Plus the $750 says "Eligible vehicles sold utilizing this incentive program do not qualify for: 2007 Accord 4-cyl Sedan Special AHFC Lease/Purchase Plan"...not sure what that means, maybe that they don't get the $750, if you get the 2.9-4.9%???

    I don't think you will have any luck but there is this source for old web pages: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
  • victrolajazzvictrolajazz Member Posts: 75
    So you had a $300 repair. That's not even one month's payment on most economy cars! Payments add up fast and few old cars ever need even more than a thousand a year in the worst case to keep running.

    On July 5, 2004, I bought a 1990 Ford Festiva 5 spd with 159,000 miles on it for $300--tho't I'd be lucky to get the thing home. It's coming up on 181,000--replaced clutch and timing belt at 175,000 for $750, just put in new radiator for $250. Everytime I fill up, it's 39-41 MPG. I use it around town and let the new Altima sit most of the time--I'm shooting for 200,000...
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    Well look at the math. Let's say it costs 11k per accord and the median profit per car is 7k. Let's use 300k Accords sold in the US per year, that's 2.1 billion in profit. Assume they broke even on the other 700k cars sold in the US (which I highly doubt), yet that 2.1 billion is 3 times greater than their posted global profit of 609 million last year. Hmmmm....

    Your numbers are waaaay off. the 609 is correct (or close to it) but thats 609 billion, and thats in YEN. Honda makes about 2 billion a quarter in profit. their yearly profit is somewhere between 5 and 6 billion.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Of course, the point is that is is nice to have some alternate body styles to choose from. Ford, GM, and Chysler do this without necessarily having to pay a premium price. For example, if one does not like the Fusion, perhaps they find the Milan appealing.

    Honda and Toyota only let you do so if you pay up for Acura or Lexus. With the volume of Accords and Camrys they sell, they could certainly choose to offer the customer more choices in the mid-size moderately priced category.

    There are two ways of looking at this. What if GM took the best people they had designing the Aura, the best from the G6, and the best from the Malibu design teams, and put them together, to design 1 great car. Many times, these cars are stealing sales from each other. I think they should consolidate these resources. I'm sure the one team that designed the Accord was more cost effective than three teams designing the Aura, G6, and Malibu. The point is, the Aura, G6, and Malibu are basicly part of the same market segment. At least the Accord, and TL are going at two separate segments, and not taking sales away from each other.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Still, a good used car is always going to make more sense financially than a new one.

    Yea but you don't always know what "a good used car" is. Unless you know the car's history you have to just hope and pray you're buying a good car.

    I'd rather buy a basic new car, with a clean history and a new warranty, than a mystery used car.

    That's one of the reasons Hyundai is kickin' butt.
  • w9cww9cw Member Posts: 888
    Re. your 1990 Ford Festiva . . . I'm sure you know who manufactured it - Kia. So much for unreliable South Korean cars . . .
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "There were plenty of choices to consumers before the Fusion came along. I chose a Taurus once and that turned into a costly mistake. Now I choose to buy Hondas"

    Thats funny, same thing happened to me! I chose a Honda Accord in 2000. After my problems, I figured out its all hype, and they are way overrated and overpriced. So I went back to Ford.. ;)
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    "We've only owned one but I've dealt with Honda salesmen on 3 different occasions. Getting them to budge on price is no minor feat. YMMV."

    As I have been trying to tell somone here! Honda dealers Don't deal! I have personal experience with this myself. As far as resale too!@ Trying to trade my 2000 Accord was not a great experience. One dealer told me, I'll never forget this one.. " Accord LX's are all over the place, I have 6 of them on my lot now"... :surprise:
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Fact is, some people will complain about anything. I read one review where the owner complained that his Accord's door would not stay open, if he parked on an incline. Wonder what he would have thought about my last rental (Chevy) that the door was almost impossible to close. If you closed it too hard it would bounce back out, if you didn't close it hard enough, it simply would not close. You should not have to concentrate on how hard to close a door. This was by far not the only Chevy I've driven with this problem.:sick:
  • welspastorwelspastor Member Posts: 2
    I just test drove a Camry and Saturn this afternoon. I was convinced I wanted a Camry but after test driving the Saturn, I really like it (the Saturn). V6 is standard, as are many other features not on Camry. Am I missing something or is the Saturn as good as I think it is compared to Toyota? Camry had a lot of bad reviews here. That surprised me because everyone I talked to who has a Camry loves it.Camry seems to have better gas mileage.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "Camry had a lot of bad reviews here"

    Some of the stuff in here is noise. You have to like the car you buy be it domestic or foreign and hope you get a vehicle off the assembly line that will give you a great ownership experience.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Am I missing something or is the Saturn as good as I think it is compared to Toyota?

    I too checked out the Saturn (I assume you mean the Aura) a few months back. Seems like a good car that would go the distance and satisfy you. However you have to wait for 75,000 miles to hit the odometer to find out if your assumption was correct whereas you can pretty much bank on the Camry (or Accord) doing that.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    just a suggestion depending on what value you put on engine/drivetrain refinement - stick with the XR variant with the 3.6 in it - but drive it first and make sure that you accelerate it hard coming out of a corner on a test drive. Do yourself a favor, though, and test the new Altima as well. The Aura impressed me as well, and certainly may be 'Detroit's' best effort to date. Or you can wait for the 08 Malibu to get onto the lots, same car slightly different styling cues. The Camry V6, IMO, is easily the best V6 out there right now, likely will get you better FE and may not actually cost any more to own than a Saturn or Malibu. The longer you plan to keep the car, the cheaper things like the Saturn/Malibu become. I would be curious what sort of prices you are being quoted on both cars?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    I'm confused, I just see 2.9-4.9% and $750 dealer incentive there.

    I know we agreed to drop this but I didn't want to leave someone confused. ;)

    It was said that there were currently no cash incentives on the Accord, only low interest rates. You saw how there is a cash incentive in my area right now which I'm guessing will only increase as the year goes on. Follow now?

    Plus the $750 says "Eligible vehicles sold utilizing this incentive program do not qualify for: 2007 Accord 4-cyl Sedan Special AHFC Lease/Purchase Plan"...not sure what that means, maybe that they don't get the $750, if you get the 2.9-4.9%???

    They have a low interest rate and special lease program running on certain trim levels of the Accord too. You have to finance through AHFC and, as I understand it, cannot combine the $750 with either of those deals at this time.

    I don't think you will have any luck but there is this source for old web pages: http://www.archive.org/web/web.php

    Cool link! But no luck. They are missing a lot of the 2006 pages and when you click on the "check incentives link" from the Edmunds home page it takes you to the current incentives.
  • 03accordman03accordman Member Posts: 671
    The variation from zip code could be in hundreds, not in thousands of dollars, as your post seems to imply. You are just confusing people with rumors.

    Again, at no point in the last couple of years have incentives etc been in the 3-4k dollar range on the Accord.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    It was said that there were currently no cash incentives on the Accord, only low interest rates. You saw how there is a cash incentive in my area right now which I'm guessing will only increase as the year goes on. Follow now?

    Yep...thanks for explaining.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    There are two ways of looking at this...

    Yes, that is true and you make some valid points about the potential greater efficiency and profitablity of having only one version of a car.
  • welspastorwelspastor Member Posts: 2
    On the Camry LE 4 cylinder I'm being quoted deal invoice of $19,811 plus sales tax and license. On the Saturn Aura V6 I'm being quoted $20595 plus $650 delivery, sales tax and license. Saturn is offering $1750 cash back for a cash deal or 1.9% fiancing for 36 months.
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    the Aura obviously the XE with the 3.5 pushrod?
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    You may want to read this comparo. It may enlighten you.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12148/2007-chrysler-sebring-touring-vs-2- 007-honda-accord-se-vs-2007-kia-optima-ex-vs-2007-nissan-altima-25s-vs-2007-satu- rn-aura-xe-vs-2007-toyota-camry-le.html
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    You may want to read this comparo. It may enlighten you.

    http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/12148/2007-chrysler-sebring-touring-vs-2- - 007-honda-accord-se-vs-2007-kia-optima-ex-vs-2007-nissan-altima-25s-vs-2007-satu- - rn-aura-xe-vs-2007-toyota-camry-le.html

    That was a very interesting read, Elroy5. Of course I would like to have seen a Fusion thrown into the mix, but was not surprised that the Accord finished first.
  • lightfootfllightfootfl Member Posts: 442
    to quote the "caveman" from Geico : "? HUH ?" Reference those down the left hand part of the messages.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    was not surprised that the Accord finished first.

    Not many are.

    They should do the same test of these cars with 60,000 miles on them. I'm sure the Accord would stay atop the pack and probably widen its lead. That's the allure of the Accord. The Aura,the Optima and the Fusion are question marks until then.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    was not surprised that the Accord finished first.

    Not many are.

    They should do the same test of these cars with 60,000 miles on them. I'm sure the Accord would stay atop the pack and probably widen its lead. That's the allure of the Accord. The Aura,the Optima and the Fusion are question marks until then.

    Interesting idea, GoodEgg. I guess the closest thing to the 60,000 miles evaluation is Consumer Reports reliability findings. The book on the Fusion is still out, of course, but the preliminary feedback on the 2006 model has been pretty good.

    I was really interested in the Accord but the wife wasn't, so you know how that goes. Plus we considered the Accord to be out of our price range when equipped like our 2007 AWD SEL Fusion, MSRP $27,105.

    The other factors were the Fusion's bold styling and excellent handling abilities. We didn't even pursue, test drive or price the Accord but probably should have, in retrospect.

    Actually, I like the looks of the 2007 Accord better than I do spy the photos I've seen of the 2008 Accord.

    My only serious complaint about the V6 AWD Fusion is its very poor in-city gas mileage, 14.8 mpg and holding at 3,200 miles. It does deliver 24 mpg in highway driving though. Unfortunately, 95 percent of our driving is in the city, stop and go, short hops. Perhaps a V6 Accord wouldn't do any better. We should have bought an I4 to begin with given that gasoline is at $3 a gallon and headed for $4.

    So far, the Fusion has been absolutely trouble free for the first six months with nary a single rattle, squeak or flaw to be found. The fit and finish on all of its collective parts are perfect. It's an exceptional automobile -- for us at least.
  • daedalus34rdaedalus34r Member Posts: 94
    I'm in the market for a sporty 4door w/ manual transmission; today i went to the [subaru] dealer and sat in the legacy for the first time. I was pretty shocked to find how cramped the rear quarters were ... And the sad part is im not even a big person. 6'-0" @ 190lb, i'd consider myself averaged size and I could barely fit in the rear seat. I can get comfortable in the drivers seat ... i just have to put the seat all the way back and recline the seat-back a bit. When i did that, I dont see how anyone could sit behind me. Also, there is some serious lack of headroom [in the back] too, that C-Pillar makes rear-quarters entry an acrobatic task.

    I wish car companies would make usable rear seats that aren't penalty boxes. In comparison, I drive a '98 regal, and I can fit ok in the rear seat after I positioned the driver seat to my liking.

    Anybody got good recomendations for a sporty 4door with M/T? I hear the altima's M/T isnt so great and I hate how everyone and their mother's have that car ... too many out there.
  • scape2scape2 Member Posts: 4,123
    Test drives are great! Try the Mazda speed also! sporty 4 doors with manual transmissions, wow, this is a tough one. My guess is your going to have to go to a Euro of some sort, Audi A3? Passat maybe? Saab?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    The house is short but there is a Legacy in the stable already. I am personally jonesin for a MazdaSpeed6 but its looking like I am more likely to end up with an Accord VP...about as exciting as a box of rocks :(
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    What about an Accord SE 4-cyl - a little less boring and about $18,000 including destination for the stick shift. About as quick as the Mazda6s to boot. Throw on a large sway bar in the rear for a little better handling.

    The Mazda6 is a screaming value though with all the rebates, though the Accord VP really has all the guts of the higher priced models, and is no slouch itself.
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    Interesting - I have an AWD midsize with a 3.0 Liter 227HP Duratec derivative that delivers 19-20MPG in town and 27MPG on interstate runs. I suspect that your engine's not broken in fully yet. It's been my experience with 2 of these engines, that some blasts of hard acceleration up to redline is needed to fully break them in. They're also sensitive to engine oil levels. If overfilled with oil, they deliver poor economy.

    REgards:
    OldCEM
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    What about an Accord SE 4-cyl - a little less boring and about $18,000 including destination for the stick shift. About as quick as the Mazda6s to boot. Throw on a large sway bar in the rear for a little better handling.

    Yeah, the issue its its another 2 grand for what basically amounts to alloy wheels (with "OEM" level tires) and a fancier stereo. The only things I really like in the SE are rear discs.

    At 16k the Accord VP is an excellent value, at 18k for basically the same car, you are getting pretty close to a Mazda V6/stick in terms of TMV.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles