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Comments
Where in the above text was the Camry mentioned? :confuse:
It's very surprising the first time it happens. You're not expecting it and having never experienced it before you don't quite know what to do right away. That said, a competent driver (I was only about 25 or 26 at the time) could figure it out quickly that sudden engine revs = undesired higher speed, so down-shifting, braking, or going into neutral are the possible corrective actions. All of those actions are possible on AT-equipped cars (downshifting might not be on some that no longer offer shift points lower than Drive).
On the Tempo/Topaz, shutting the car off & turning it back on cleared it up temporarily. It would be days or weeks before the problem would recur.
Ford did the recall for AT-equipped Tempos & Topaz' but not for ones with an MT. IIRC the fix was a replacement ECU. Not being as knowledgeable as I am now, I replaced the Topaz instead of fighting for the recall to apply to my car. While I liked the car's comfort & power, it had reliability issues so replacing it made more sense than trying to get yet another thing fixed.
(And speaking of maintaining control, sorry Hollywood, but I likewise had no problems maintaining control of an '85 Sentra when it experienced a front tire blowout at 70 MPH. Driver-front tire blew, car started to drift, I pulled over & stopped. No drama. Unless you suddenly yank the wheel a car with a flat isn't going to flip or go massively out of control. Likewise you can keep driving for quite a distance if you don't mind harder steering and damaging the rim.)
at first, i thought ES 350, but it was different enough to catch my eye.
looked pretty good, although not a shocker.
the chrome trim that extended from the headlights through the front door to the 'C' pillar is a different touch.
I looked at lots of cars, but made a point of checking out all the mid-sized family sedans that were there. (Galant and Kizashi were no-shows, as was the Aura of course. And I didn't see a Passat sedan, only the CC, but maybe I didn't look hard enough.)
Here's some thoughts:
Best display: Hyundai. They had three Sonatas open to sit in, with power so the power seats and stereos would work. They also had an SE on a turntable and a cut-away 2010 Sonata to show off safety features. In contrast, Nissan had only one Altima, a loaded one, Kia had only one Optima (again a loaded one). Honda, Toyota, Chevy, and Mazda also had a decent number of mid-sizers available.
Nicest interior: This is based on the low-end base models, i.e. those with cloth interiors, which are the ones I am most interested in. The award goes to...Mazda6i, which had a red car with black/tan interior for just under $21k that I thought looked sharper than anything else there at that price level. The Legacy was close, with nice brushed-aluminum-like trim on the center stack. The worst: Avenger.
Most comfy front seat: No award, because most of the cars on the floor had power seats and many had no power feed, so I really couldn't test them.
Most comfy rear seat: Accord, with tons of leg room and plenty of toe space, and a well-shaped seat with good thigh support. I found lack of toe space to be a problem on several of the cars, including the Sonata. Worst seat was in the Legacy--much improved leg room over the previous generation, but falls short of Accord, Mazda6, Sonata, and Fulan there.
Best value: Mazda6i. The red sample I mentioned earlier undercut even the Sonata in price, but had all the key features (except Bluetooth, which the Sonata has) and as I mentioned, a nicer interior than the Sonata's. It's also a standout in the class looks-wise, as is the Sonata.
Best in show: Buick Regal. There was one on a turntable, so I couldn't sit in it, but it was open so I got a good look. I have to say I was VERY impressed by what I saw. Exterior-wise, I think it might be the best-looking car in the class--more buttoned-down than the Sonata and Mazda6, but still not the same-old-family-car styling. It looks a class above the rest (except the CC). The interior also looks as nice if not nicer than anything in the class. Now, I know what you are thinking--"this is not in the same class as Camcord, Sonata etc." Well, I think it is. According to the GM spokeswoman there, pricing will start at $26,900 and that includes the DI engine, 18" alloys, 6-speed AT, sport-tuned suspension, and leather interior. So it's trimmed like the high-end trims of other mid-sized sedans, and priced in that same ballpark. There will be a 220 hp 2.0L turbo version available also, for more money.
There was a comment about wanting a "Sonata Limited S" with sport-tuned suspension and turbo engine. I think the new Regal might be the closest thing to that, if it drives as the GM marketing hype suggests (it is from Opel of Europe after all).
Maybe the Regal could replace the departed Aura in the list to the right?
I thought the uplevel interior of the Altima was very nice and approaching Infiniti in luxury feel. Leather was very soft, unlike the Hyundai/Kia leathers which aren't quite as finished it seems. Mazda has pretty nice leather too but I know you're not into that which is fine.
Still can't figure out why GM can only get 30mpg hwy out their 182hp base engine for the Regal. Maybe it's just geared that much lower for pickup off the line and not for hwy cruising, similar to the Mazda6 V6 which only gets like 26mpg hwy. That's pretty pathetic in todays world. I think the 328hp G37 AWD gets around 25mpg hwy and it's a rocket so I don't see any excuse for Mazda.
I made the comment about the fantasy of a Sonata Limited S and you're right, the turbo version of the Regal may be very similar to what that car could be but probably at a substantially higher street price.
Anyway, the Regal is nice but I would still vote for the Legacy as a replacement for the Aura off to the right.
The Accord LX manages only 31 mpg and I'll bet it's a much lighter car than the Regal. But 30 mpg for the DI in the Regal isn't very good compared to the 35 mpg in the more powerful Sonata.
but as you pointed out you have to go with top level models for that!
The Prius, if I recall correctly, is a shift by wire car. You can move the little joysticky thing where ever you want, but unless the body control module tells the powertrain control module that someone played with the lever, nothing is gonna happen.
1. It was reported when the brake was depressed, acceleration ceased.
2. There was no issue in putting the car into neutral.
You decide.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100314/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius
So if you press the brake, it kills power to the drive train, well, it was quite obvious that did not happen with the runaway since he was riding the brakes hard. Another thing about Prius, they have a very sensitive traction control, the main reason I got rid of it. The TC on the Prius cuts all power to the wheels for about 2 seconds when a wheel slips. There is a good chance that if he was really pushing down on the brakes and hit a bump, the wheel hop would have cut power.
Just because they can't reproduce it, doesn't mean it didn't happen, and what they now need to do is figure out if it is a hoax, how did he do it without modifying the car? Since he hasn't asked for any money, would the only reason he did it was to avoid a speeding ticket? The question I have is, did he call 911 before any police were near him, or did he call after he had seen a cop and thought he got caught speeding? If the former, then I seriously doubt he would have faked this.
That is not what the experts have said. They brake wear was not consistent with full load brake apply, which means he could have alternatively depressed the brakes, depressed the accelelator.
Just because he *claimed* it did happen, doesn't mean it really did. People do all sorts of strange things that some of us can't fathom why.
How about this:
That's the new 2011 Kia Optima, set to debut in New York. Inside Line has the info here.
Opinions?
Personally, I like it.I think it's more attractive than the Sonata, with styling that's more cohesive, and kept in line with the Kia family. Question: If Kia is supposed to be the "sportier" version of Hyundai, do you think they'll man up and throw in a V6 under the hood? Maybe with a true manual?
Hey, one can dream... :shades:
I do own a 2007 Prius. and have read the manual.
I don't think the Optima will get a V6 if the Sonata doesn't. I think it's likely the two cars have the same platform--it's reported they will be built on the same assembly line in the U.S., with the Kia line shifting to all-SUVs (Sorrento and new Santa Fe). The Sonata is not designed to hold a V6, so the Optima might be similar. But maybe there will be a turbo variant like the Sonata. Probably not a hybrid, though. But you never know.
I can't say for sure I like the Optima better than the Sonata styling-wise until I see the Optima in person, but it does look sharp in the photo. But I think the Sonata looks good also, albeit with a much different styling approach.
2. Not enough pictures and aspects to determine if it looks better than a Sonata IMO. I'll hold my preliminary opinion until a lot more good quality pictures are available and from every angle.
3. Doubt if the V6 will show up. Maybe a higher output version of the turbo I4 possibly and some real sport suspension. They are using the same frame as the Sonata and one way Hyundai reduced weight on the Sonata was by not having to beef the frame to hold a V6.
It seems to me that the Camry won because they think middle American will like it the most - quiet, smooth ride, easy to drive, simple controls, and overall just the epitome of a basic, boring, but decent sedan. Fun to drive- no, stylish-no, lots of included features-No ... it is just a basic decent car for the millions of drones in this country that get about as much enjoyment out of their car as they do their microwave.
I could have *maybe* lived with the Fusion being the #1 over a 2011 Sonata, although really the SEL trim compares more closely to the Sonata Limited in terms of price and purpose. And when you do that comparison, the Sonata offers a lot more. The SE is a sports-tuned mid level sedan which purposely gives up a small bit of the quiet ride for improved handling - which it accomplished - by having the best track numbers even over the Fusion and Altima. And the lack of an auto-manual on the supposedly sporty Fusion is just ridiculous. For the criteria that MT was judging (which is the best sedan for the family/predicted 2010 best seller) the Limited is clearly better for that purpose than the SE.
Also, why was the "price as tested" $26,000 for the SE? Apparently they got it with the Nav and sunroof, which still only brings it equal to the price of the Fusion SEL without a Nav. I would be willing to bet that sunroof has something to do with the supposed weight being 3316 lbs. instead of 3199 lbs. in the GLS and only getting 8.1 seconds 0-60 (still the best of the cars in the test but it is much better than 8.1 in reality).. Besides the Fusion looks like a Mach3 razor and the Camry is probably one of the worst looking car in the whole group.. look at those 16 inch rims with 5 huge boring spokes- disgusting!!
Of the Camry -
The materials and build quality suggest this could be the priciest car in the group, when in fact it's the cheapest (though equipping an SE to match our Sonata would cost almost $32,000).
As we don our Ma 'n' Pa Middle America hats and take a walk around this Toyota, we can't help being impressed by the gigantic back seat, huge trunk opening, and breathtakingly simple cockpit ergonomics.
"Okay, steering feel and handling prowess are not outstanding, but when you hustle this slice of milquetoast, it shrugs off road imperfections and carves through turns just fine. There's lots of chassis roll but no loss of control. Seemingly excels at nothing, yet it really excels at everything. A driving enthusiast might want a more involving and athletic machine, but for 99 percent of buyers shopping in this category, the Camry simply nails the mission profile."
Milquetoast - A good word to describe the Camry. Enjoy it, soccer moms.
This one statistic really says a lot. Toyota was #1 before the recent turmoil.
Data from on-board computers indicated that Sikes had applied the brakes and gas pedal, alternately, at least 250 times during the incident, Toyota engineers said.
Edmunds.com has independently tested Prius cars similar to Sikes and confirmed that the engine would stay engaged if the brakes were only pressed lightly but not hard enough to actually stop or slow the car, said Dan Edmunds, head of auto testing for the automotive Web site Edmunds.com.
"If you're just riding the brakes, it will ride the brakes," he said.
I recently rented a Camry SE and really liked it. The Camry has come a long way since the days of "sloppy" handling. I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there. I have a few considerations, but there is the possibility of buying one. I can be a "drone" and I'm okay with it.
You're right. "Drones" isn't the correct word at all...
I'm thinking along the lines of, say, lemmings.
I recently rented a Camry SE and really liked it. The Camry has come a long way since the days of "sloppy" handling. I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there.
Those two sentences only prove that you should be testing other midsize sedans. You'll quickly discover just how inferior the Camry handles compared to just about every other choice on the market today, while the competition matches or exceeds the smooth ride that the Camry supposedly leads in as well.
This might be nice for some people, but it's nice to see a few automakers actually care about performance, style, and handling, so dad can enjoy driving the car too - not just mom.
yes Mz6, Lemmings is a good word. I was thinking like zombies flocking to the Toyota dealer year after year without evening thinking of the other brands.
If you would have read his post closely you would have noticed that he said "I don't feel the need to go test driving every midsize sedan out there". Did he say he wasn't going to test any other midsize sedans? How many people test every single car in the class they are looking in before buying? Narrow it down, test drive a few and buy a car.
Does the Camry handle softer and with more body roll than most of the others in the family midsize ranks? Sure. Is that bad to the millions that buy it...no. I, for one, am not a big fan of Camry or the way it handles but I'm getting a little tired of the holier than thou types that like to put other people down for liking the way a particular car handles.
I'm sure that there are so called enthusiasts on other forums that would probably call anybody that drives any family midsize sedan lemmings or drones. Does it make them right or does make them appear to be just blinded by their own bias? Like I said, bash the car, not the buyers.
As far as how inferior the Camry is...I didn't feel it inferior. BTW Camry wouldn't be for me directly.
I also like that the front end appears to be "not too close to the ground". The front of the Sonata looks really low to me...I hope it does okay in the snow.
Huh? :confuse:
I'm getting a little tired of the holier than thou types that like to put other people down for liking the way a particular car handles.
And I'm getting tired for being wrongly accused of insulting others when I happen to have a different opinion than others in this forum. I'm also getting tired of the masses of car buyers that default to Toyota and Honda, when just about every other midsize car on the market at least matches (if not exceeds) the ability/advantages that these cars supposedly have. I can honestly say that the 1% of car buyers that also are members of Carspace don't fit into that category, but the majority of the other 99% of car buyers are, IMO, lemmings, just following the crowd without expanding their horizons.
You're right, I do need to lighten up. I think that some others on this forum should do so as well.
On topic:There's a local car dealer that sells Hyundai, and his latest batch of TV commercials show him comparing a white 2011 Sonata bumper-to-bumper with a white Mercedes C-class. To me, they look nothing alike, nor do I think a Sonata would be mistaken for a Mercedes C-class. I know he's out to sell cars, hence the comparison, but do they really look alike? Opinions?