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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I own a 6(26) but that's not what you had in mind. Just two comments:

    * Is back seat room important to you at all? If so, the obvious choice is something other than the CC.

    * If you can wait a bit before buying your next car, you might want to wait until the 2.0T version of the Sonata and also the all-new Optima (same engine) debut. 274 hp will do some serious neck-snapping. Also the Sonata has a similar profile to the CC's yet has room for 3 adults in back (as long as they aren't too tall or broad).
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    edited August 2010
    I can only speak in terms of my 07 Mazda 6i 5-door. I have over 65,000 trouble free miles. I just came back from a week long trip from Detroit to Boone, NC and back. I got as high as 30.8 and 30.2 MPG from Detroit to/from Lexington, KY and 28.5 and 27 MPG from/back to Boone from Lexington. Around the mountains near Boone, NC I never went below 23-24 MPG. The 5-speed auto worked great in manual mode and I love the handling, even with almost worn OEM tires. And the A/C worked fine in mid 90's weather.
    I had a VW Jetta in the late 80's. It was a fun car to drive but not realiable and expensive to repair. :shades:
  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    Thanks Backy

    Back seat isn't important to me, most of my time my jackets and sweaters occupy the spot. With the CC I still get 4 doors and carry 3 people when I have to. I'm 5'7" myself and none of my friends and family are taller than 5'10" so nobody will be complaining about head room no matter which car I buy.

    I am waiting until January of next year so I definitely have some time on my hands, which probably is great for a shopper. From what I've read about the 2.0T on the Sonata/Optima is that they behave more like a larger displacement V6 instead of your traditional turbocharged engine. I also want to see if the Korean pair drives more like fast family sedans or entry level sports sedans.

    PS: the woosh sound from VW's 2.0T was a plus
  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    Thanks!

    My 2005 Mazda6 i sedan with the 4 spd auto has been very reliable as well. The only problem I had was a driver side window motor that wouldn't roll the windows down and a blown fuse. If I remember correctly it was about $450 at the driver for both items. The AC has been amazing from day one, but sometimes it's just too cold LOL.

    One of the biggest problem I have with my car is the 4 spd auto unit. It's pretty tough and slow to shift, up or down. I got to experience much better trannies while test driving both the CC and 6 S GT, both were smooth, none of that lurching business :)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited August 2010
    I don't think you will match the CC's drive dynamics with one of the Koreans. They will no doubt be pretty powerful and probably more trouble free but they are still midsized family sedans. The sport models of each will be pretty much family sedans with stiff suspension. Not bad but not "sports sedans". I love the CC both outside and inside but have some pretty big hangups about not only their repair frequency but the cost and reputations of VW dealers in general. I would buy an extended warranty if you keep your cars for awhile if buying the CC. Better yet, if you lease you can turn it in at the end of the standard warranty and enjoy the free scheduled maint they throw in.

    I too have an 07 Mazda6 I4 and it has been absolutely trouble free for almost 50k now. I'm glad to see others have gotten 65k out of their OEM tires. We have pretty decent tread left on ours as well. It's hard to imagine having to take your car for repairs a couple of times a year when you've had a couple of cars that have been perfect for several years. Maybe we're spoiled. ;)
  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    edited August 2010
    I definitely trust Mazda since my 2003 has only required 1 repair and it was relatively minor. I just hope my car has some more pep and a smoother transmission.

    Did you ever get to drive a current V6 model ? If you did I'm wondering if you were as impressed with the new car as I was. The chassis felt rock solid at turns and it rides a ton better. My only concern was the road noise. I think a good amount of it came from the 18in wheels.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    edited August 2010
    I bought a brand-new '04 Mazda6 V6 Sedan and accumulated 92K miles in the 6 years I owned it, it's only problem being a faulty gas cap. Other than that, it was one of the most fun DD's I've ever owned.

    I replaced it with a '10 Mazda6S GT this past June, and after 2500 miles, I'm still VERY happy with my choice. Gas mileage has been around 22 MPG with my normal driving (60% highway, 40% city), and I've gotten 26 MPG on highways (cruise set at 75 MPH with A/C on). The mileage will go up as the engine gets "worn in" even further, but I'm happy with what I get now, since the punch of the V6 is simply intoxicating, and passing/merging on highways is effortless. Road noise is indeed slightly more than other cars in it's class, but from experience, it's from the Michelins, since it seems every set of 'em seems to be loud. I replaced the OEM tires on my '04 6 with Yokohamas, and the noise virtually disappeared, along with significantly better handling in both dry and wet, a smoother ride, and at half the price of the OEM Michelins.

    Before I bought the 6, I test-drove just about everything else in it's class/price range, including the CC. The styling is indeed very nice, and the interior is a half-step up from the 6, but IMO the turbo lag of the 2.0T was very evident, and it felt like it had virtually no low-end torque compared to the V6. Quality and reliability is still very suspect, since they're still near the bottom in just about all long-term surveys, and I've experienced their (lack of) reliability firsthand (a previous employer used a '99 and '00 Golf TDI, hoping to get 200K+ out of the diesel engines, but both didn't last past 125K, with tons of electrical gremlins, faulty transmissions, and fried turbos). As for pricing, $29K for a 4-cylinder is a little steep IMO (and $39K for a VR6 is outrageous! I'd rather get an A4, 3-series, or G37 for that $$$$).

    Between the two, I'd stick with the 6.
  • rdm925rdm925 Member Posts: 46
    I understand about the transmission issue. I haven't had that experience with my 5-speed auto, although the the down shift to passing gear is hard and it requires some lag time for the engine to rev up to power. The best response is between 3-4,000 rpm for the 4-cylinder. I just paid off the loan and plan to keep my 07 6i at least ten years.
    BTW, does the CC 2.0T require premium gas? My 2000 Civic Si did and it drove my wife nuts that I bought a car that required it.
    As much as I like the styling of the VW CC, I still recommend the Mazda 6, and it's built in Flat Rock, MI. along side the Ford Mustang.
    I only wish they still made the 5-door model. :shades:
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    BTW, does the CC 2.0T require premium gas? My 2000 Civic Si did and it drove my wife nuts that I bought a car that required it.

    Yes it does. My wife also has a problem with that.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    When gas prices went up, how many times did you hear people say that they got rid of their old car and got a new one because the old one required premium and they either couldn't afford it or just didn't want to pay extra? I heard it a lot, almost daily.

    The funny thing is the difference in the cost of regular vs premium never changed. In Atlanta the price difference was $0.20/gallon regardless of whether regular was $2/gallon of $4/gallon.

    Therefore the price penalty for premium was still only $0.20/gallon or about $3/fillup - it never changed. Then again people will waste $3 in extra driving just to save $2 on a tank of gas.

    It's all perception.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    When gas topped $2.50 or so the first time in Birmingham, the differential went to $.30 and never went back.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    It might be $0.30 here now - haven't noticed since we ditched the Aviator for the Edge which doesn't use premium. And no, that wasn't the reason.........
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    That sort of thing is great..."I can't afford premium gas, so I have to buy a new car".

    Even if you drive ~20,000 miles per year, using ~700 gallons of gas, premium (based on 20 cents per gallon) would add about $12 per month to your expenses. At $0.30 more, it would still only be $18 per month.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited August 2010
    The 6 is fast but gets far worse gas mileage which could add up over a 5-8 yr ownership

    If you can wait for the 2011 Mazda6, it is rated at 18/27 for the V6 model compared to 22/31 on the CC but the CC requires Premium fuel. Based no that, I see virtually no fuel savings going with the CC.

    As an owner of a 2005 Mazda6 that has been trouble free with around 70,000 miles, I would stick with the Mazda6....
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Exactly. I'm going to spend $30K to save $12/month.

    It's just another rationalization people use to justify buying a new vehicle. Just like repair costs. I'm going to spend $5K/yr on car payments to avoid a $1500 repair.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Did you ever get to drive a current V6 model

    No, I didn't. I wasn't interested in it because of the poor mpg it gets. I like power but don't need to sacrifice that much for it. I understand the 2011 V6 will be a little better in that department. There was also some minor things in the interior that I didn't care for so I just didn't test drive it. I sat in it many times while in for oil changes at the dealer.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    18/27 vs. 22/31 means the Mazda6 would use about 20% more fuel, while the cost difference between premium and regular is generally ~10% or less at current prices. But, yes not much of a difference...about $100 less per year for the CC based on 12,000 miles and a 50/50 mix of highway/city.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited August 2010
    image
    2011 Suzuki Kizashi Sport GTS

    or one of these...

    image
    2011 Kia Optima

    if I were ta go mid-size, gentlemen. None of the others save for possibly a 2011 Ford Fusion Hybrid would even come close to competing with these. And really, if greenbacks were ta be actually produced, Suzuki Motors would no doubt get the money from me. Love that Kizashi.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    Thanks for the input everyone.

    I crunched some numbers based on my typical driving data and found the difference in gas spending is about $150-$180. The Mazda6 S would sip more gas but not by that much. The difference can easily be covered by a higher sales price, insurance or anything else.

    mz6greyghost Is absolutely right about the V6 being intoxicating. The car would snap forward with the slightest pressure on the pedal.I just loved that.

    The smart entry system is actually a big thing for me since I tend to carry food with me to my car.

    Well, I think I've pretty much decided on what to get. I'lll let you guys know once I actually make the purchase on a 2011 6 S GT.

    Thanks guys!
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Am I the only one that's still repulsed by those wheels on the Kia? If they're supposed to be "sporty", then Kia failed, because they're not.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The difference can easily be covered by a higher sales price, insurance or anything else.

    ...Not to mention the more-expensive repair costs that VW will rack up (as well as the more-expensive maintenance costs that you'll be stuck with after 3 years/36K miles), and, at least in my case, the insurance difference was at least $80 per year.

    Definitely keep us posted, and I highly recommend the Tech package as well, it's worth every penny... :)
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    Repulsed is a bit too strong a reaction to strange looking wheels.I would just say,I don't like them.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Repulsed is a bit too strong a reaction to strange looking wheels.I would just say,I don't like them.

    They look like giant pizza's.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It seems that about 95%(from what I've read and myself included) of people on this forum and others hate those wheels. Then you get somebody that comes on and says something like "what is your hangup with the wheels...just replace them aftermarket". Well, I don't want to spend $600-$1000 aftermarket for new wheels or even hassle with it. If Kia can get some preproduction feedback to the point that they may offer decent looking wheels than all this bitching will have done some good.
  • dave8697dave8697 Member Posts: 1,498
    and why the third door handle on the front fender.

    My BIL bought a new Optima 5 years ago and just made the last payment. It is falling apart, gets bad mileage, and he is ready to junk it. A $199 a month lease can be had on many competitors with $2400-$2900 down. Thats where the GM credit card rewards come in handy. maybe knock the DP down to $1400. His 'shot' Optima had $320 payments for 5 yrs.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Surprising considering the Hyundai mechanicals are in it. I've not heard much bad about the 2.4L or the 2.7L.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    "Am I the only one that's still repulsed by those wheels on the Kia"

    Let's sing along with Elvis "...in the ghetto"
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    why the third door handle on the front fender.

    Makes it easier to check tire tread depth? ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    This apparently was a 2005 Optima, based on the Gen 3 Sonata (which debuted in the US in late 1998). Still, I am surprised it's falling apart after only five years, unless it was subjected to very hard use.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited August 2010
    those new '11 Kia Optima wheels, either. Since I'm not going to be buying anything midsize it's not a problem for me. But, if such a thing did apply to me, I would be e-mailing Corporate Kia and/or nearby dealers to get some input about them. They'd have to go if I bought the '11 Kia Optima.

    image
    2011 Kia Optima...with those wheels

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • ergsumergsum Member Posts: 146
    They slice, they dice, they make julienne fries!
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Kia - Made by Hyundai Ronco?
  • tenpin288tenpin288 Member Posts: 804
    Can you use them to slice open cans? ;)
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Quick blurb and 3 minute video of the car, so far so good:

    http://blogs.consumerreports.org/cars/2010/08/first-look-video-2011-kia-optima.h- tml
  • kfdmedkfdmed Member Posts: 130
    Now get rid of the 3rd door handle.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    So, basically, it is a Sonata with a different body and nicer interior....
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    No, it's an Optima with a Hyundai sourced frame/drivetrain. Just like Ford and Mazda have co-shared many mechanical pieces over the years. Escape---Tribute?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Thanks for posting. The car looks good......especially the wheels and the interior. I've always liked the cockpit style dash of Saabs and this looks similar. Better inside than the Sonata IMO and the exterior has a hint of Europeon design obviously since the designer came from Audi.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Looks better inside and out than the Sonata to my eyes, which is high praise since I'm a fan of what Hyundai has done with that car. Will definitely take those wheels too. I was happy to have a bit of confirmation that the interior is very nice and the 'first look' ride had no outstanding negatives with ride quality.

    Im fairly confident in the drivetrain based on what we've seen in the Sonata reviews. Hopefully more first looks to come.

    P.S. I like the "3rd door handle".
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited August 2010
    Just like Ford and Mazda have co-shared many mechanical pieces over the years. Escape---Tribute?

    That example proves my point....the Tribute and Escape are the same thing!! Very very few differences....

    1st gen Fusion and 1st gen Mazda6 had more differences then the Optima and Sonata.....

    Kia-Huyndai have far more in common then Ford-Mazda.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    But what is your point? Does that make them bad or something? They aren't trying to hide anything. But using the Escape and the Tribute really isn't a good example. Not only were the frames and powertrains the same but the sheetmetal and interiors were almost the same as well. At least the Sonata and Optima look almost completely different both inside and outside.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I cant speak to the Tribute and Escape but however you want to classify the Sonata and Optima, I'm glad to have them both available as choices in this segment. They both stand out and I happen to much prefer the Kia design and options. I dont think you can mistake them for each other by looks alone, exterior or interior, so clearly they are not the same thing. Even things like the suspension will be tuned differently, I would suppose.

    What is the same, is the class leading power and FE engine. Works for me. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    But what is your point? Does that make them bad or something?

    My initial post was in response to the CR video about the Kia Optima and how CR mentioned there many items that are identical, such as the drivetrain platform. Not similar, IDENTICAL.

    I never said it was a bad thing, I just mentioned that it is the same thing as a Sonata with different sheet metal and a nicer interior. It was more like an observation based on the information available.

    It seems like the Optima is to the Sonata, what a Buick Enclave is the the GMC Acadia
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I think I read more into your original post then was there. I guess it's similar to Ford and Mercury too. VW does this all over over the world with using the same platforms and drivetrains for different cars. I'm sure if Mazda had a sister company there would be lots of that too. It makes sense to spread the cost of the guts over several models but make them different enough looking to satisfy different types of buyers.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I cant speak to the Tribute and Escape but however you want to classify the Sonata and Optima, I'm glad to have them both available as choices in this segment. They both stand out and I happen to much prefer the Kia design and options. I dont think you can mistake them for each other by looks alone, exterior or interior, so clearly they are not the same thing.

    GM could learn a lesson or two about rebadging. ;)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Funny. These almost look like spam or something. What have they got to do with midsize cars??
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    This same guy (with a different user name) has been spamming the Mystery Car Pix discussion for weeks/months.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Ford and Mercury are a good comparison too. I know Hyundai only owns about 39% (i think) of Kia, but, it's quite obvious that Hyundai is doing most of, if not all of the engineering. I read somewhere that all new Kia models use Hyundai platforms, engines and transmissions. They even carry the same 10yr-100,000 miles warranty. I do believe that some Hyundai's and Kia's are built in the same plants? Both here in the US and in Korea?

    Obviously Hyundai is doing something right because their quality has jumped substantially and now their quality has spilled over to Kia. Five years ago, Kia was the laughing stock of the auto industry.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I can remember when Honda and Toyota were the laughing stock of the auto industry. Back in early 70s it was common to see perforated(with rust) two or three year old Honda running around. Vegas were really bad for that too as well as others. Things change....car companies change for the better or worse. Hyundai/Kia are improving in quantum leaps not usually seen in automotive world. Kind of makes me nervous to some degree as to how well their stuff will hold up and the quality control stays in place.
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    edited August 2010
    Reminds me of the GM lineup from the late 60's until at least the mid-80's. Chevy, Pontiac, Olds & Buick all had the same model car, with minor cosmetic differences (exterior & interior). Caddy, Buick and Olds also had the same model car, with above noted differences, for many of those years. (My parents bought a 1988 Olds 98 Regency Brougham which came with more standard equipment than the Caddy DeVille and listed for a couple thousand less.)

    In the early-80's, Caddilac came out with the Cimmaron, which was a fancy Chevy Cavalier.
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