Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

1302303305307308544

Comments

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    That was my point. Most of the time a car that corners flat rides a little stiffer and vice versa so they somewhat go hand-in-hand to make up "handling".
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I think it's all about the balance. While it'd be great if it corners on rails, if the cost of that was a loud and "tin can" rattling ride I would pass. Fortunately we can have both, but I would assume there are trade offs at certain price points. I'm guessing the SX will have better handling than the car they test drove for instance.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I read somewhere that on the Kia Sorento they have switched over on all new Sorentos the same shocks they are putting in the SX version of that vehicle. Even though it costs more, the upgrade to ride and cornering was such that they decided bite the bullet and put them in across the board. I guess they were getting complaints on the ride of the lesser model Sorentos.

    I think these may be the same design shocks they are using in the Optima SX.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    dash5, these are much betta for the 2011 Kia Optima.

    image

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Yep, the hot red SX with those rims will look amazing. Although, I am also very fond of this gunmetal grey (platinum graphite?) as well:

    image
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yes, when I say "most buyers don't care about handling"...that really means that my balance point is in line with the former version of the Mazda6, but for most buyers the balance point is a lot closer to a Toyota Camry.

    Since I recognize where that balance point is for most americans, I certainly understand why Kia would would aim for that with the Optima.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    The previous generation seemed to divide and conquer, with the Sonata aimed at the Camry crowd and the Optima headed over toward Altima/Mazda6 a bit. With the 2011 models things appear to be getting muddier, with the Sonata pointing more toward the center (Accord/Fusion).

    If the Optima SX continues to aim for the Altima/6 end of the spectrum, does that mean the rest of the Optima line will have ride/handling more in line with the existing Sonata GLS, or even softer?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    IMO the Optima will probably mirror the Sonata to a large degree. The SX will be very close in overall handling to the Sonata SE and the other version close to the GLS/Ltd. I would doubt if the Kia would be softer, if anything a little stiffer as they have positioned themselves in the past to be just a tad sportier than the Sonata.

    However, I kind of agree that this year could be where the drivetrains and handling merge and the big difference is strictly looks and content price points.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    Have you played the Vehicle Rating Game? First round prizes being awarded soon!
  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    My aunt likes how the Camry handles because it is easy to drive. It's effortless steering, the easy to maneuver in the parking lot and other things that makes driving less of a chore. Whenever she drives my Mazda6 she complains about how my steering too heavy and my breaks are too touchy. She has also drive a Mustang and absolutely hated the thing.

    We are very different types of driver / buyer. The average person who buys a 22K midsize sedan probably leans more towards her side of the spectrum than my.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    my breaks are too touchy

    Well that's the problem - they're broken!
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    According to this anyway

    http://www.nitrobahn.com/news/2011-kia-optima-ex-to-go-on-sale-from-october/

    After unveiling the 2011 Kia Optima EX at the New York Auto Show in April last year, Kia Motors America has finally decided to start selling the car from October this year at a base price of $22,100.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Just to let everyone know there is a G25 forum now. It was added about a week ago. It seems strange to me that the Optima's EPA mpg has been released for some time while the G25, which is supposed to be in dealerships within a couple of weeks, has no info whatsoever(that I can find).
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited September 2010
    image

    image

    Picked it up last night. Out the door I paid $14,400. Purchase price was $13,892+$508 tax. V6 GLS, PEP with moonroof, 48k miles. Certified pre-owned.

    I love it! Never owned a V6 before; I love riding the torque curve up hills. Thus-far I'm averaging 28.3 mpg in a heavy-highway mix (75% probably) of driving.
  • stephen987stephen987 Member Posts: 1,994
    Love the color! I've always thought the '06-'10 Sonata was a good looking car, in a conservative way, and Hyundai has a real way with colors. They've offered a nice mahogany, a really nice teal, a terrific steel blue, and others, at a time when it seems all Accords and Camrys are greige (gray or beige).

    Congrats on the new ride, Grad. Keep us posted, especially on the mpg.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited September 2010
    Thanks! I had been pricing a natural khaki (greenish/olive color) but wasn't thrilled with the thought of having the exact same color as my fiance's Santa Fe. The day I called my dealership about test-driving the khaki color (same year, model, and mileage actually), they had lowered the asking price by $1000 for the weekend on the Cocoa. They offered $15k OTD, I said $14k, and we arrived at $14,400 for the GLS V6. It's certified, which means I get the remainder of the full factory warranty, the balances of the 5/60k and the 10/100k, and has brand new tires on it. I set up the price before ever driving it, so that if I liked the car, there wouldn't be major disappointment if the deal couldn't be reached to my liking.

    For what it's worth, I sold my '06 Accord I4 EX with 64,400 miles and got my asking price immediately (same-day I listed it on facebook), $13,750.

    I know I got good money for the Honda, and I feel like I did well with the Sonata considering it is immaculate inside and has only a couple of scratches outside.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Wow, you dropped the Accord for a Sonata? Color me amazed... :)

    What year is it? Also, the pics are too big, as the posts are cut off on the right-hand side.

    Either way, nice ride! Yes, a V6 is addictive, and I could never drive a 4-cylinder as a DD anymore (I'm on my second V6 after an anemic 4-cylinder Grand Am...)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited September 2010
    Yeah; the Accord had turned into a bit of a rattler. It's mileage had dropped to where I was getting 28 mpg at 72 MPH pure highway. It used to get 38. No idea what's wrong, but after investigating and trying some things to no avail, I was frustrated. Couple that with the issues I'd dealt with under warranty:

    Console fabric came apart
    CD Changer had to be replaced
    Rear view mirror glass fell out
    Gas flap wouldn't open
    Horn quit working
    Auto-Off lights were becoming uncooperative as I sold it

    It was a very un-Honda experience even though at heart it was a fantastic car to drive over the years. I was sad to see it go, but I didn't have an ounce of regret. With my new job I do much more long-distance commuting and less around-town point and shoot driving. The Sonata is more Camry-like (yeah, let the jokes begin), but while the steering is noticeably number than the Accord, it is still very accurate and not overly light. The brakes and throttle are also much easier to modulate than the jumpy-in-comparison Accord. Much easier to drive in traffic. Couple that with finally having enough front legroom (I'm 6'5", the Sonata is probably an inch and a half roomier in seat-travel), and I was sold.

    I still have my '96 Accord, by the way. :shades: 215k miles and nary a rattle to be heard.

    Forgot to answer your question; the Sonata is a 2009. They dropped the V6 option on GLS models for 2010.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited September 2010
    (Can't reply because the pics of the beautiful car are too darn wide...)

    Congrats, we have the same car now! Except yours is a V6, mine is 4 banger. Oh, and yours is 2 years newer. And you have a moonroof. Just minor differences. (wink)

    Hope you enjoy it. Our 2007 GLS PEP, steel grey (also a nice color I think) is holding up well. I hate to mention this, but we've owned it for nearly a year and no door dings yet. (Yep, will probably get one today.)
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,953
    Absolutely beautiful!

    The Sandman :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I apologize for the wide pictures. I didn't realize it until it was much too late.

    Thank you for the compliments! I'm loving the car so far; so much-so that I've put 280 miles on it since Thursday night! I've not been a stranger to the middle (3-4k RPM) part of the tach since I'm so new to all the power, but it is still returning 25.6 MPG according to the computer. Loving it, and the USB audio. I simply used a thumb-drive so I don't have to fish my iPod out of the console everytime I get out.

    I'll keep the experiences coming. A couple of things I miss about the Accord:

    1.) Delay-Off headlamps; they were nice when trying to get to the front door in the dark

    2.) Remote roll-down windows; it's still hot in Alabama, and this was one of the best "detail features" the Accord had.
  • ushy66ushy66 Member Posts: 366
    edited September 2010
    Any word/info on if Honda will be bringing back the wagon Stateside or sportswagon to Honda in the near future like they are with the 2011 Acura TSX Sportswagon, ala Crosstour/ZDX? Thanks
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    ushy66-

    Most likely not. The TSX wagon is the real Accord wagon. For us here State side, we get the wonderfully awkward Crosstour.

    My father had a 1991 Accord wagon, which has more cargo room then the Crosstour, got better fuel economy and was actually fun to drive. What ever happened to Honda??
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    They are just building what Americans want, which means wagons must be put on stilts and be called crossovers or they have to be on even bigger stilts and be called SUVs.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Wagons and minivans suck from a styling perspective. CUVs and SUVs provide cargo and people capacity with a higher seating position and better styling than wagons (to most people). I don't understand why that's so hard for some people to understand or accept.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Definitely what I prefer =) I dont get the wagon thing at all.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    If you lived in Europe, you would be the minority. Wagons are very prevelant over there. Subaru seems to do ok with wagons. Except the new Outback is more of an SUV then it has ever been.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    edited September 2010
    Because in a wagon, you get the excellent cargo space that SUVs/Crossovers offer, with better styling (IMO), better fuel economy than most SUVs/CUVs, and the feeling that you won't drag your door handles when cornering, or tip over when in an emergency lane change.

    For cargo needs, I'd get a 6 wagon (or 5-door) over the CX-7/CX-9 anytime, anywhere.

    That is, if Mazda still offered them...
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Should have bought some and maybe they still would.

    CUVs really aren't that bad as they are built on car frames. People like the higher seating and the load floor is at a lot nicer height for loading and unloading. My dad has a big Mercury in TX and while the trunk is huge, it is very hard for him to bend down into to get his groceries out. While I was down there with my SUV recently and we went to the store he commented on how nice it was and would be perfect for him as it was very easy to put stuff in the rear and retrieve. Not that they can only be appreciated by older people with groceries but I find it nice when going to the big box hardware stores and gettting large bags of fertilizer etc. They are also high enough to haul furniture without wedging it in.

    All in all, CUVs and SUVs have a purpose but don't get quite the mpg or handle as well as a midsize car(topic) but for many people that can't afford a car and truck, they are nice compromise.

    You make them sound like death traps and gas hogs which is a huge exaggeration.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    My wife has driven 2 Explorers, an Expedition, and Aviator and an Edge over the last 16 years. Not once have we even come close to "dragging the door handles". They corner just fine if you're driving responsibly.

    If you prefer wagons then good for you. Styling and seat height is a personal preference. Just don't exaggerate trying to rationalize your choice. Do wagons handle better? Of course - they have a lower center of gravity. Does that make SUVs/CUVs inherently dangerous? Of course not.
  • acdiiacdii Member Posts: 753
    I used to have a 1979 LTD Wagon. Now that is a car I wish they still made. Seated 9, handled well, plenty of power, lots of cargo space, can tow a trailer, and got 20 MPG.

    Enter the dreaded minivan, gone are the days of large station wagons. :(

    So now our choices are, ick, dreaded minivan, SUV, or a CUV. I have 3 kids, and hate minivans and SUV's, but found that the Flex is a good alternative to those, its not quite a car, and NOT a minivan or SUV. Its just a few inches taller than the old station wagon I had, just not as long, but handles quite well, and has lots of power to do whatever I need it to do. This is the one vehicle I don't see as a Crossover either, it just looks like a larger Scion XB, and that is a car. To me its a station wagon. :shades:

    I saw the Honda wagon at the Chicago auto show, and thought it looked bloated, and couldn't imagine people wanting one. To me it was just a sedan with an easy to get to trunk. Subaru always had a wagon of some sort, practical if you have 2 or fewer kids, styling, not too bad, and dependable. Aside from that I haven't seen any other car company make a wagon that is useful.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Boy, will I be glad when we get to the next page and can read entire posts again.

    The Honda wagaon at the Chicago auto show? Do you mean the Crosstour? That's hardly a proper wagon, it's basically a hatchback. The new TSX sportwagon is an actual wagon which is based on the Euro Accord.

    I have 3 kids, and hate minivans and SUV's, but found that the Flex is a good alternative to those, its not quite a car, and NOT a minivan or SUV. Its just a few inches taller than the old station wagon I had,

    The Flex is nothing more than a squared off minivan with regular doors instead of sliders. At best most people would think it's a CUV(SUV shaped body on a car frame, at least that my definition). You can continue to believe it is somehow different because it has a little different style and decent power but it's basically the same thing.

    Now that the new Explorer has went to unibody and seats 7, I don't think Flex is long for this world. The Flex and Explorer are just to close in size and function to justify both. The Explorer can go offroad still if need be but looks to be a good road car as well.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    edited September 2010
    Boy, will I be glad when we get to the next page and can read entire posts again.

    I've already apologized, and am sorry my pictures are still causing a problem for you; I couldn't edit once I realized it was posing a problem for some. For what its worth, you can go to an individual post by using the search tools towards the bottom of the page.

    Back on topic, I'm quite pleased with my Sonata V6 thus-far. In a 50/50 mix of city and highway driving, my MPG has settled right in at 25.5, +/- .2 on my first tank. I'll not be able to tell what the true reading is until my next tank when I fill up and reset the trip meter myself, so for now I'm reliant on the computer.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You can continue to believe it is somehow different because it has a little different style and decent power but it's basically the same thing.

    He didn't say it was different - just that he disliked the styling of minivans and SUVs but liked the styling of the Flex. And that's all it comes down to - personal preferences.

    Now that the new Explorer has went to unibody and seats 7, I don't think Flex is long for this world.

    A significantly refreshed Flex is already in the works. Explorer is high volume, lower priced, off-road capable, etc. Flex is lower volume, higher price, more exclusive features and highly stylized with NO off road aspirations. Other than the fact that they're based on the same platform and share ONE engine - they're totally different.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I know you apologized(I obviously am reading the posts) and I wasn't trying to lambast you in any way. I guess it was just my subtle way of asking others to check before posting pictures. I don't know how fast it would work but maybe emailing a host and asking them to eliminate my post so it didn't affect subsequent posts for days would have been an idea. Maybe you thought of that and figured we'd be on another page before a host could get to it. Anyway, no big deal.

    I am glad you finally found the car you were looking for as I know you have been looking for quite some time and your new car does look quite nice in that color. Curious that you got a V6 though as I thought you were a confirmed 4 cyl person.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Thing is, once I've read through a post, it doesn't cause that issue for me again because I only click to see the new ones through my "watched" items. I didn't think to ask a host, as frankly, when it does pose problems, they tend to jump on it without being asked. Either way, I posted quickly, and didn't have the issue myself, and missed it. I normally post on Carspace so as not to have that problem. :blush: Oops.

    I've been very happy with my fours, but after spending a decent amount of time in a V6 lately, and finding that the MPGs were just 1-2 mpg off from what I was getting in a substantially less-powerful engine, I figured I'd take the plunge into a V6, especially one with a timing chain. I'm getting the same mileage in my Sonata as my '96 Accord with 130 tired but faithful horses. Hard to complain about that.

    If I had a complaint with the Sonata powertrain it'd be that the transmission is rather sluggish, but accelerating uphill in 4th is a breeze at 40 MPH, so a need to downshift really isn't even there.

    To be fair, I drove a 4-cyl Sonata Limited ('09 or '10, can't remember), and it felt much... MUCH slower than my '06 Accord. I ended the test drive after 4 miles. The test of my Sonata lasted nearly an hour and 35 miles.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    edited September 2010
    Wideness is long gone for me too.

    Another way to lose it is to click on post #15563 (the one after the picture), then that'll be at the top of the page and no wide picture.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Thanks. That a good tip cause it also happens sometimes when people put in some links that are extremely long.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I have 3 kids, and hate minivans and SUV's, but found that the Flex is a good alternative to those, its not quite a car, and NOT a minivan or SUV.

    He didn't say it was different - just that he disliked the styling of minivans and SUVs but liked the styling of the Flex.

    Excuse me but I think if you read his statement again he quite clearly said it was different by saying it is "NOT a minivan or SUV". What would you classify it as? It's certainly not a midsized sedan or a station wagon. If you go to Ford's official site the Flex is pictured with the Edge under the tab "Crossovers". Another quote from acdii is below.

    So now our choices are, ick, dreaded minivan, SUV, or a CUV.

    So what is it cause I guess Ford doesn't have a clue?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    he quite clearly said it was different by saying it is "NOT a minivan or SUV".

    He was referring to styling. It's certainly not a minivan without sliding doors or the short hood. It's not a SUV because it's not built for towing or going offroad. It's an urban crossover - as close to a wagon as you can get without being a wagon.

    And that's the whole point of the Flex - it gives people who just want a comfortable urban cruiser that can seat 7 an alternative to minivans and SUVs. Who cares if it's just a tall purpose built station wagon?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I didn't see anything where he specifically referred to just styling but if you can read his mind I'll take your word for it. I'll still consider the Flex a crossover or CUV, just as Ford says it is and is marketing it as.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Why else would someone "hate" minivans and SUVs but like the Flex other than styling?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Maybe utitilty, the way a vehicle rides and handles, gas mileage and the actual use one has for it. If you call all those things style then we just see things differently which is fine. It's more interesting than totally seeing everything the same way.

    I just find the Flex so close in "style" to both of those type of vehicles that to say you hate one but love the other doesn'nt make sense to me.
    But that's what makes the world go around, I'm not putting anybody down for it....just disagreeing. I don't hate any vehicle, they all have their good points and bad.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    There isn't much difference in ride and handling, fuel mileage, etc. between a Flex, an Explorer and a minivan.

    I just find the Flex so close in "style" to both of those type of vehicles that to say you hate one but love the other doesn'nt make sense to me.

    Have you actually seen a Flex? It's a totally unique vehicle. It doesn't look like anything else and that's part of the appeal - a big part. There are people who would kill for a Flex who would never consider an Explorer or a minivan. I don't know why that's so hard to understand unless you're only considering the number of passengers and not how the vehicles actually look inside and outside.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It's funny how you say there isn't much difference in these vehicles but find it justified to hate two of them and love the other. So you're saying there isn't much difference in these vehicles besides looks.

    I just rode in a Flex the other day. The body shop gave me a ride home and picked me up in one. It was nice, rode well, seemed peppy enough, etc. Nothing wrong with it. As far as people that would kill for it? You must run with a rough crowd.

    To me it just looks like an XB on steroids and that's not a pretty thought. Like I said, we just see this vehicle differently and you're not going to convince me that it's really a thing of beauty and I'm not going to convince you that it's ugly. We just disagree on something that there is no final answer because looks are just a matter of personal taste.

    Take care.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You're confused. acdii said he hated minivans and SUVs but liked the Flex. You said the Flex was "basically" the same as a minivan and that with the Explorer here there was no need for a Flex.

    What I was trying to point out is that the Flex is totally different than a minivan and it's different than the Explorer.

    There are people who hate minivans but love the Flex like acdii. There are people like my wife who love the new Explorer but absolutely hates the Flex AND minivans. And there are people who love minivans but hate the Flex. Because they LOOK like totally different vehicles even if they perform the same function. People are paying almost $50K for a loaded Flex because it's unique and it offers a 365 hp engine. Nobody buys a minivan because it's unique or because it offers 365 hp. People who buy a Flex don't take them camping or buy them to tow a small boat - but they do buy Explorers for that.

    If you think they're the same then good for you but that opinion doesn't apply to everyone else.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    If you think they're the same then good for you but that opinion doesn't apply to everyone else.

    Gee, you're finally getting it. I don't need to have everyone agree with me. I'm just offering my personal opinion.. I didn't say they were the same but I still think that the Flex is a CUV and acdii said he hated CUVs along with SUVs and Minivans. If you want to make the Flex out to be some one-of-a-kind wondercar that is different than anything else on the planet that's up to you.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    acdii said he hated CUVs along with SUVs and Minivans.

    Absolutely wrong. What he said was.......

    So now our choices are, ick, dreaded minivan, SUV, or a CUV. I have 3 kids, and hate minivans and SUV's, but found that the Flex is a good alternative to those

    You started the argument saying you couldn't understand how he could possibly like one but hate the other two because they were basically the same thing. To most people they're not the same at all.

    I didn't say they were the same

    Really?

    The Flex is nothing more than a squared off minivan with regular doors instead of sliders. At best most people would think it's a CUV(SUV shaped body on a car frame, at least that my definition). You can continue to believe it is somehow different because it has a little different style and decent power but it's basically the same thing.

    I give up. No point arguing with someone who can't keep a conversation or facts straight.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Anyone? Anyone? Bueler?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    Ok, you're right he said "dreaded minivan, SUV or a CUV". Are we
    getting very anal here or what? I'm not saying they are all physically exactly the same. I said they are basically the same. Big square body type vehicle that sits a lot of people and can haul a lot of stuff to put it simply. Let's use some common sense here. IMO the Flex is a SUV body on a car frame which is a CUV which is what Ford says it is. If someone says they dread a CUV but then goes on about how much he loves one what is one to think. acdii said dreaded minivans, suvs and cuvs. If someone dreads something I assume they don't like it. So let's keep the facts straight on both sides.

    To most people they're not the same at all.

    Have you taken a scientific survey on this or is this just your opinion? If you have some facts please spit them out. Unless you have some facts it ends up being just your WAG. Personally, I think the average person looking at the Flex, at least those not worshiping cars like we do, would probably say it's some kind of SUV for lack of better description. That's what my wife thought when I got dropped off by the bodyshop. But that is simply an opinion so I'm not going to say that most people think that. I'll leave that to you.
Sign In or Register to comment.