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Comments
The last time I rented however, I chose a Sonata, which was a 2011 model. In my next post I'll go through my impressions of it, I had it for three weeks so had an opportunity to really be with the car. The car would not have made my short list.
An ugly blend of TSX, Forte, and Corolla, all rolled into another coma-inducing Buick-wannabe.
Fail... Again...
Exterior-wise, it's a big yawn. The roofline is like the pre-2007 Camry's. Front is familiar, and not ugly but no new ground there. Rear looks like a cross between the new Civic and the 2011 Accord. Nothing very interesting, more like the new Passat than more imaginative designs like the (see list above).
But Toyota will sell millions of them.
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I remember when the early pics of the new Sonata came out and people were all screaming that it looked like melted butter and now dmost think they look great....myself included.
So did I but I'm sure you remember all the negative comments about the styling early on. I think the new Passat is kind of bland but I really like the styling of it. It is euro and the kind of styling that will look good for a long time. While the new Sonata looks really good now, I do wonder how the styling will wear a few years down the road. I think the Optima styling will be longer lasting.
Nice to see some activity on this midsize sedans forum. Ever since the so called "upgrade" it has been deader than dead.
Since I bought my '10 Mazda6, there has been a few new competitors, and the segment has indeed shifted IMO. The Sonata has polarizing styling, you either like it or hate it, at least exterior-wise. I personally am not a big fan, and IMO the Elantra is worse, simply because it doesn't look any different. I understand the concept of brand identity, but WTF?
The Optima OTOH, that's a great looker, and of the Korean twins, Kia has the better looks both inside and out.
Either way, IMO the Koreans have really stepped up their game.
I'll mention the Regal, since it's also new, and it's a Saturn Aura in a different dimension.
Disappointments? The Passat. One word, cheap. Inside, outside, it's VW catering to the lowest common denominator, something the Camry has done for years, and IMO it's terrible. Except the TDI, powertrains aren't very inspiring either (a 5-cylinder, really? IIRC, the last 5-cyl was the Acura Vigor, and that didn't exactly set sales records). The last-gen Passat looked more modern, had better interiors, and actually had character. the new one has none of those, which means it'll sell well, just like the Camry.
Altima, Accord, Fusion, Legacy? Umm, lets wait for the redesigns.
My 6? Still love it! The interior is still one of the best-in-class, despite being three years old. The exterior is still eye-pleasing to me, and after 15K miles of commuting, people-hauling, stuff-hauling, and a few road trips with 8+ hours per day of driving, it's been flawless.
The midsize sedan market is VERY hot right now IMO, but the Camry will still outsell everyone else, since vanilla still outsells all other ice cream flavors... :sick:
http://editorial.autos.msn.com/slideshow.aspx?cp-documentid=1175094#8
I think the Elantra is better looking than the Sonata. But a lot of people like vanilla ice cream, not pistachio.
I like the new Passat and find it to be a lot better looking than the older model. The interior has not been cheapened much at all compared to the way the new Jetta has and the Passat interior still looks and feels a class above.
1) look like a 10-year-old Impala from the side.
2) have a barely adequate base engine (2.5L I5) that isn't competitive in fuel economy with today's mid-sized cars.
Actually I like the new Jetta pretty well, trim outside and humongous inside, with an Audi-esque rear. Only the cheap interior materials and the woeful base engine make it a tough car to love.
Didn't know they could tweak it that much more.
It just looks like a bloated Corolla to me.
Our Sonata hybrid has been getting mid to high 30s and some 40 mpg tank fulls all summer.
6,500 miles since purchase 4/29.
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MPG has increased on the I4 to better than the Sonata per EPA and they are getting 30mpg out of the V6! That's pretty good but I realize it's not as good as the turbo I4 in the Hyundai/Kia but then again it's a V6 and it goes NOW. I tend to believe you could attain the EPA numbers with the V6 in the Camry versus the turbo 4 in the Sonata and Optima. From what I've read it is more difficult to achieve those EPA numbrs in the turbos unless you baby them and who wants to do that. Isn't that why you buy more HP for, to give it a go now and then?
All in all a pretty good improvement. Not exciting but then again these are family midsized sedans so exciting is not what they are. You want exciting....buy a Porsche.
Sounds just like the current Malibu...
And which I4 auto midsize family sedan that we discuss here do you imagine has soul? Besides being hard to define because I'm sure the definition is different for just about everyone.
Optima, Sonata, Mazda6 ...OMG....r u kidding me
Feel free to give us your examples of the best dashes in this class.
Toyota has already slipped to #3 in sales beaten by GM and VW. By next year they will also be overtaken by the other 2 Koreans KIA and Hyundai. (Considering GM is now number one in sales with a big contribution worldwide from GM Daewoo, another Korean).
Toyota and Honda seem to have lost the plot. Love the Mazda6. My 09 Mazda 6 still trouble free after 3 years (bought in 08) and 50K miles. Zero warranty repairs. And looks amazing next to a Camry
http://ca.video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=A0WTf2uBtVZODk0Aam3tFAx.?ei=U- TF-8&p=2012%20camry%20redesign&rs=0&fr2=tab-img&fr=yfp-t-715
:shades:
One problem with your thought - the earthquake & sunami is a big reason they slipped to #3 in sales. Honda - same problem. My Honda dealer's lot has been nearly empty for months!!
Zoom-Zoom :shades:
In the case of the Mazda6 it shares most mechanical parts with one of the best selling midsize cars (Ford Fusion, mercury milan, lincoln MKZ)
so parts for mazda6 are readily available and dirt cheap.
In Canada Honda and Toyota dealers still have older models with zero kilometers still on dealers lots. Really good deals to be had if you can tolerate driving a camry or accord
That's the great thing about owning a quality durable car like a Toyota, you never need replacement parts because the originals never break.
A Toyota with a back ordered replacement part just never happens, unless you are trying to cure something like driver error or pedal misapplication which causes Unintended acceleration! :P
Here is a couple of 2012 Camry video reviews for Toyota haters
Review 1
Review 2
The Sandman
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
so parts for mazda6 are readily available and dirt cheap.
That's not necessarily true anymore, at least with the current-gen 6. The 1st-gen was very mechanically similar to the Fusion/Milan twins. With the 2nd-gen redesign, the common mechanical parts have dropped, and will go away altogether when the Fusion switches to the Mondeo platform.
As for difficulty in getting Mazda parts, I can only tell you that when I ran into a deer with my '04 a few years ago, the body shop had to order the hood and front bumper protector, since there were none available within 250 miles, so it took a few extra days to finish the repair.
Mechanically, I don't know. Besides the regular maintenance items (pads, rotors, wipers), and a gas cap for my '04, neither the '04 nor the '10 has needed any warranty or non-warranty repair.
I really think if Toyota had come out with a car that looked exactly like the Sonata or the Optima before Hyundai/Kia did, these people would still be saying that they are the ugliest things made. There are plenty of plain jane midsize cars out there besides the Camry.
I do have to agree that the interior of the new camry is way better than outgoing model, which just looked and felt like plastics from a dollar store.
The new styling is particularly puzzling in light of comments like this (from C/D, Sep. 2011, emphasis added by me):
A redesigned Camry arrives later this year. Details are scant, but as Toyota has already given it a six-speed autobox, plus the newer 2.5-liter four-cylinder, the redesign will focus on styling. That comes per company president Akio Toyoda's mandate to add verve to the Toyota products.
If this is Toyota's idea of "verve", I'd hate to see what they think is "boring". :surprise:
Read
Transportation secretary Ray LaHood said, “We enlisted the best and brightest engineers to study Toyota’s electronics system, and the verdict is in. There is no electronic-based cause for unintended, high-speed acceleration in Toyotas.”
linky
* Fusion seemed the most solid and quiet. It didn't hurt it was a well-optioned SEL I4 with leather vs. lower trims on the other cars, but it had a smoothness to it I did not feel on the other cars, including the Sonata. Just a very pleasant car to drive.
* Sonata was pleasant enough and returned very good FE for its size, e.g. 20 mpg in extreme city driving conditions vs. 16 in similar conditions for the Fusion. The dash was more modern than the Fusion's, and although it was a base GLS with no options, it was plenty of car for the money. The only downside was it seemed a little noiser and "thinner" than the Fusion. The 198 hp engine had lots of pep, however, and handling was good for its size.
* Camry was... well, the best I can say for it was it was the best Toyota I've rented in recent years. But since the other Toyotas I've rented (Yaris, Corolla, Matrix) were abysmal, that isn't saying much. Ride was smooth and the V6 engine peppy. But there were several squeaks/rattles and the interior finishes were cheap looking/feeling. The new Camry can't come soon enough. The new LE Hybrid looks particularly interesting... about $26k list for a well-equipped hybrid with over 40 mpg city. Should be very popular.
* The Jetta was an SE with the 2.5L and 6AT. Although it lists for about the same money as a car like the Sonata GLS, I found it a totally unremarkable car with nothing positive that stood out with the exception of a well-contoured driver's seat (but leatherette, which was sweaty in the hot summer weather). The dash doesn't look all that bad but one touch tells you VW has cut costs on the new Jetta. Response is sluggish, as if it has to think about whether it wants to go when you step on the gas. Ride is OK except on some concrete freeway road surfaces, where I found there was a resonance in the chassis that was very unpleasant. FE wasn't that good, and there's no mpg computer to tell you how bad it is. Handling is OK but not exceptional--no better than the Fusion or Sonata. Rear seat and trunk are roomy for its size, but the Sonata is roomier for the same money. I rented it as an experiment, but will steer clear of them for future rentals.
* The Elantra GLS (no options) was also a very pleasant rental--roomy, comfortable, nice looking inside and out, peppy enough (no speedster of course), decent handling, excellent FE (27 mpg in extreme city driving). A good alternative to people looking for a car that can hold four adults in comfort yet get excellent fuel economy in a trimmer package.
* Altima is a nice enough car, with good handling and a comfortable ride. But the rear seat isn't that roomy and the dash isn't up to par with some newer models e.g. Optima and Sonata. An Elantra would provide nearly as much room with much better FE at lower cost.
* The aging Sentra (getting a lot of these at Hertz lately) has some nice attributes, including good highway FE (touches 40 under favorable conditions @ 65 mph), a relatively smooth and quiet ride, and a roomy back seat for a small car (mid-sized interior). Also a well-laid out interior with humongous glove box and smooth controls. But it needs a more economical engine to compete with the newer compacts, and also needs crisper steering--the electronic steering has no road feel.
Still looking for Optima and Regal rentals. I don't see any/many of those. Lots of Altimas and Malibus and Camrys and Fusions, some Sonatas (fewer now that Hertz doesn't seem to buy Hyundais anymore).
I guess the exterior design, unless it's really gaudy or something is just not that big of concern to me. Can't see it when I'm driving it and don't particularly care what others think. I do like a high grade interior with bells and whistles though. Looks or design are just so subjective that it is hardly worth discussing.
I think the design (of the Passat) has staying power.
I suppose so... the exterior design of the Chevy Impala, to which the new Passat bears a strong resemblance, certainly has had staying power over the years.
It used to be, ALL mid-sized family sedans had boring styling. Then some automakers shook things up a bit, made life more interesting for mid-sized sedan buyers. As long as a car isn't downright ugly (see Kia Soul or Nissan Cube for examples), I can live with it. It's nice to have some choices in this segment that are visually interesting though.
When I had the 09 Camry, and looked at the 10 Fusion, the difference between material quality was quite apparent. The Fusion was hands down far better quality overall in materials. I hated the handling in the Camry, soft, mushy, heavy body roll on turns. The body styling was OK, it had a nice stance to it from the front, but the nose where the badge is reminded me of Jimmy Durante with how it bulged out.
My only complaint with my Fusion is the door handles, you would think after 5+ years they would have resolved the door handle breakage problem. They are weak where the spring is and tend to break right there. My drivers door handle broke last week. Thankfully it is an easy fix, and the handle is under $40.
One other thing, the tires it came with, lousy wet weather traction, and very easy to spin on dry pavement, but they were quiet. I replaced them with Goodyear GT's and they tend to be noisy on Concrete. This may have been the problem with the VW you drove. Traction though is great with the new tires so I will take the noise knowing the car will stick to the road now.
I've had to use rentals and most of them feel like driving an old couch. A Seabring, a Sentra and a Cobalt so far. Boring, horrible interiors and no driving dynamics. I do get the appeal of the soft ride, I like the idea of a smooth driving cruiser. A Lexus or Mercedes, soft and quiet certainly has it's appeal. In this class though it just translates to cheap for me.
Also on the subject of midsized, I have to say I underestimated the new Jetta in terms of styling. I've seen a few in person and they look very nice. No idea how they drive but I like the look much better than the last iteration.