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Actually, they were all perfectly 100% explained. All cases were found to be driver error and pedal misapplication, nothing more.
No computer glitches, sorry! Besides, all computer "glitches" can be overcome with proper driver training.
So why is Toyota releasing nicer looking Camry's outside of North America?
What they are saying is a nicer Camry will take sales away from entry level lexus like the es350.
Since Lexus barely sells any cars outside of North America, Toyota seems to provide a better looking Camry for those markets.
Basically they are saying we are stupid.
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2011/08/toyota_ukraine_unveils_the_eur.html
They've been saying that for years. From charging more $$$ for gluing on a "Lexus" nameplate instead of a "Toyota" nameplate (and I won't even go into the "gold-plated" emblems/nameplates. Gimme a break! :sick: ), to basically blaming their "loyal customers" (read: source of income) for the "operator errors" leading to the unintended acceleration.
And yet like sheep or lemmings, millions of suckers... oops, I mean "consumers", continue to buy them and their "quality" products.
How do you compare Altima and Elantra outside FE and rear seat space? Especially in ride, noise, handling, and brake.
Thanks again.
No computer glitches, sorry! Besides, all computer "glitches" can be overcome with proper driver training.
So, are you going to open a special school for those who want to drive Toyotas?
Trying to be funny?
Every other car I've ever heard about with UA problems has been traced to actual faults in the vehicles. Somehow only Toyota is innocent despite the numerous complaints. Just seems odd.
None of the cars I mentioned has great handling. They are all mid-sized family sedans, mostly low-trim versions with tall-section tires. All have capable handling, Jetta and Elantra probably best (maybe because they were the smallest), Sonata wasn't bad, Fusion a nick behind that. This week I got a Mazda6, and it has nice handling despite the wimpy tires.
Braking is not something I tend to test very hard when I rent a car. They all stopped fine for normal driving. It was summer, no bad weather to speak of except a little rain.
Jetta and Fusion probably had best rear and side views. Sentra has a good side view also. Sonata, Mazda6, Elantra all have that swoopy styling that compromise the side and rear views.
Altima is a little quieter than the Elantra, but both ride nicely on the highway. I think the Elantra is a little more entertaining to drive, but the Altima is a good handler for a mid-sized car. Altima has more power of course. Drive 'em both, see which one you like. Since the Elantra is roomy enough for me, has better FE, and I like the styling, I'd save the money and get that over most true mid-sized cars. Except Elantras are hard to find discounts on and there are discounts on some mid-sized cars, including Altima, Fusion, and Mazda6. Also cars like Malibu and 200, but I don't like those all that much.
What they are saying is a nicer Camry will take sales away from entry level lexus like the es350.
Since Lexus barely sells any cars outside of North America, Toyota seems to provide a better looking Camry for those markets.
Basically they are saying we are stupid.
You need to get out a bit more. Like to Europe. They drive much smaller cars there. Smaller cars have traditionally not sold nearly as well in North America. Soccer moms want hulking SUVs to drive to the market. A VW Jetta (the older model) is a midsized car there. So it makes sense that the midsized sedan is smaller there. Just like the Accord is smaller there, too. And Ford sells the tiny Ka, a car not even sold here.
I give the Fusion a 95 out of 100 for that "test-drive" rental. I rented a '09 Toyota Camry in June of '09 out of Sea-Tac and I can only give that car about a 80. Competent but Toyota boring in looks and driving manners both. Might work for some but the Fusion fits me much better. Love to drive a '11 Kia Optima one of these days and compare it to the Fusion for road manners and handling.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
It's a strange review, for C/D. The car that won seems to have the worst handling in their eyes. Usually C/D gives the top slot to whichever car handles best... which I figure is why they love the Accord so much and why they named the Sonata to their 10Best list last year. But this time they raved about the interior and the smooth ride, and the smooth V6 engine.
Given how few people will buy the V6 (or turbo) variants of these cars vs. the regular I4/I5 models, kinda strange they decided to compare the V6s and turbo. I expect when their next 10Best issue rolls around, the Accord will be on the list again. I doubt the Passat will be.
My least favorite 2011 Sonota, ride is horrible made family nauseas. Most favorite g37 ended up buying it. Rented CTS, nothing special and rented the Camry twice.
Camry was actually my favorite. Great mileage 30 overall, spacious, quiet and nice on the highway.
When I was at ford I sat in the fusion, couldn't bring myself to test drive it just didn't like it. Drove the Taurus didn't like the road feel. Same for MKS.
The 2012 Camry sounds like a winner and think that Toyota will again sell a bunch of them.
Sonata making a family nauseous... that's a new one.
Had the Sonota for three weeks enough to get a really good idea of the handling. IMO the Camry handles far better than the Sonota although the Sonota had more room.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The new Fusion should really blow away most of the competition.
I was unimpressed with a loaded Honda, walked in walked out. Looked at the 2011 Camry for me and my son but couldn't decide.
When we stopped at the Ford dealer looked at the 2012 Focus. Took it for a test drive and knew it was a winner for my son. Was unimpressed with Fusion, Taurus, MKS. So bought the Focus, which I thought was clearly better than the Corolla and Civic.
I ended up buying the G because I wanted an ELLPS with a rear-wheel drive bias and all of the goodies.
The family was impressed with the "toys" in the Sonota, but in a first for us, all passengers felt naueous on long trips, it had something to do with the bobbing of the suspension. It didn't exactly inspire confidence for the driver either.
Had the 2012 Camry been out at the time we were looking, I would have considered it for my son. With the 2012 Camry, it appears Toyota did what was expected. It even has entune, which I wish a comparable feature was available on my G.
If you didn't like Toyota or the Camry to begin with, this refresh will leave you cold. But if you either liked Toyota and were waiting or were on the fence, this refresh will likely bring you back into the Toyota fold.
I haven't seen any actual photos of the new Fusion so I don't know how you can say it will blow away most of the competition especially when a new Altima and Accord will be arriving around the same time. Have you seen those cars as well? Just a little premature to be saying that IMO.
The only midsizers that have really blown the competition away in the exterior styling IMO is the Sonata and Optima. I have a lot of qualms about these cars in many aspects but the styling is touched by nobody.
I totally disagree. I absolutely hate the new Sonata. It looks like the offspring of a '96 Taurus and an '04 Solara. It's quite possible a catfish was the inspiration for its design.
The Optima is nice though. At least I thought so before I sat in one.
You thought the styling on the Optima was nice until you sat in it? What does sitting in a car have to do with the exterior styling which is what I was talking about?
We should see it and the new MKZ (which is supposed to be very different but still great looking) either at the LA or Detroit auto shows.
One word: Wow!
I know it's a "concept", but based on the Minagi Concept that's translated to the upcoming CX-5 (with only small detail changes), I've got high hopes for the next 6. :shades:
It's been a strange experience. The Altima with 25k miles was one of the worst driving experiences I've had (outside a Corolla or Matrix) in memory. The dash rattled. The engine sounded like an ancient diesel most of the time. The ride was hard. The driver's seat was too flat, so I felt like I was sitting on it vs. in it. The whole car felt cheap, except the HVAC controls which I like the design of.
Then I get another Altima in KC (it was either that or a Corolla... nuff said). This one had only 15k miles, otherwise the same equipment. What a difference! The ride was quiet and smooth. The car felt solid, no rattles/squeaks. The driver's seat felt better, although still too flat for my taste. The engine is still noisy on warmup and acceleration, but not as much as the other rental with 25k miles.
These experiences lead me to ask: who buys all these Altimas compared to very nice cars like Fusion, Mazda6, Camry, Accord, Sonata (note spelling, folks... SonAta), the new Passat, etc.? What do they see in them? How could a car be so used-up after only 25k miles? How could anyone stand a modern mid-sized car with an engine that raucous? Why would CR rate it so highly?
Maybe that's why I see so many of them when I rent cars.
I was just disgusted a one year old car with 22K miles on this could be so loud and harsh. Made me turn off that brand in a heartbeat!
Some days I miss my 06 Accord (on a fun road), but the 09 Sonata suits my needs better. Still has plenty of warranty left, 83 more horses, more features, and returns low 30s on the freeway, which is where the majority of my drive-time is spent. I'd recommend Hyundai to anyone.
You may recommend the '09 but I can't recommend the '11. I guess I can recommend it, if I don't talk about the handling and the styling. I liked mostly everything else.
Yes, my '09 may not be exciting to look at (Cocoa Metallic GLS V6 with moonroof), but it's a welcome treat when I drive it over my '96 Accord, which I still have. It has 232k miles and is my daily commuter/beater since I drive 90mi/day round trip with work.
It's funny, the 130 horse compact Accord is averaging 32 mpg; the same that my Sonata gets on the same commute.
Times have changed, and even my Sonata is out of date with a 5-speed automatic and 3.3L V6, but I still like it. The 1996 Accord, though... that's love.
Plus, I see just as many Camry's, Fusion's, and Malibu's as rental car fodder like I do the Altima. It has nothing to do with the car, but the incentive spending Toyota, Nissan, Ford, and GM have. The domestics still lead the pack in that respect.
Seat comfort is another highly subject quality. I found the seats in the Altima pretty comfortable, but the ones in the Accord and Sonata to be too firm and uncomfortable after just a few minutes.
http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2008-honda-accord-vs-nissan-altima-chevy-mal- ibu-hyundai-sonata-toyota-camry-ford-fusion-dodge-avengerthe-buzzard-and-baloney- -brigade-1.pdf
I think that how a rental car holds up under a year plus of hard use is a great indicator of how it will hold up in multiple years' use for someone like me. I've driven many rental cars with 25K+ miles. Some were like brand new. Others were gently worn, as you'd expect for a car with 25k+ miles. Then there's that Altima in Dallas...
One of the reasons I started paying attention to Hyundai was a Gen 2 Elantra rental in 2000 in Dallas. It had about 25k miles on it. But it was tight, rattle-free, nothing falling off, interior and exterior still looked like new. That was not long after I had rented a brand-new Focus in Chicago that literally had parts falling off it.
As for the Altima, one trait all of them (all 2.5s) I've rented shared, no matter what the mileage, is that the engines clatter like an old diesel warming up and on acceleration. No other mid-sized cars I've driven do that. The Altima I rented in KC this week was quite nice (the one with 15k miles) except for the noisy engine. But nothing special. I'd take a Fusion, Accord, Mazda6, Sonata, Optima, or Legacy over it in a minute (and maybe a Passat and 2012 Camry, but I haven't driven those yet).
I'd take the Altima over the Camry, Malibu, Accord, or Fusion any day. My point is, your experience proves nothing. Rental cars are properly maintained, what world do you live in? I've had some with two bald tires (never rotated properly), completely warped/grinding rotors, burning oil odors because the oil was never change, no windshield wiper fluid, need I go on? I have a Maxima with 27k miles, nothing is falling off, rattle free, interior and exterior look like new, etc but I take care of it.
I had two rental cars recently, a Camry and Malibu where the console actually detached off in my hands. Even Hyundai is guilty of incentive spending and I've started to see the new Sonata creep in to the rental lots. The only one that is harder to find as a rental is the Accord.
I'll agree, the Altima is starting to show its age, its the oldest in the midsize sedan segment now, so its not's going to be as nice and flashy as a brand new Sonata or Camry, but they are newer models. But, the Altima is still selling well and gets decent reviews across the board from CR, C&D, MT, JDP, etc. I'm actually not crazy about the new Camry, but never have been to begin with, too boring.