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Car and Driver said in a 5 sedan comparo "we prefer our Sonata in Optima clothing". Most magazines loved the materials in the cabin (EX with leather) and the wide power band that the 2.4 delivers. Also, it has 200 HP and most competitors are at 170-189.
The thing about Chevy is that the car is nice and all, but it is SOOOO Rent-a-Car looking that nobody I know WANTS one. It's just not a cool car. Its for 65 year old men that still value American-Pie-Chevrolet. I gave GM a try in the early 90's and all I can think of is all the recalls on my car and how much time it spent in the shop. (Lumina 3.4L 24v V6) :lemon: Awful car.
You guys "feel me" on this? Did any of you own a Beretta GT? Remember the Corsica? Cavalier Z24? GM HAS come a long way since then. They ARE trying and that's good news.
I sat in a brand new Malibu in the showroom in 2011. Trim level was under leather, but seat had full power. I simply couldn't believe how BAD it was! My old GF's 92 Grand Am's seat (3.3l V6..killer..for the time/money stock OEM stereo) was nothing to write home about, although looked comfy, but as memory serves, it was better than that 19 year newer Malibu's perch. No excuse in my opinion. Hence the low sales numbers, or at least that and numerous other reasons..hence the low sales numbers. It is obvious that GM's idea of what appeals to the wanna-buy-US mentality is sorely lacking in this class of car. And the kicker is...it's not a cheap car to purchase!
I wonder if they still use those plastic V intake manifolds that crack when barely aged? It's stuff like that that people remember and stir comments like cski's probably never going back.
Btw, cski, that 65 year comment? That's still a ways off for me, but at the rate the years are flying by, not that far away. I think you should have said at least 80 year old. I have some elderly friends who I drive them (in their car usually) down to the city for hospital appointments. She is 88 and he is 91. They have bought Malibus for the last few decades. Their late 90's had a better seat than their latest 2010 has. I will say though, the late 90's one or mighta been a 2000? V6 got fairly good fuel economy on a 6 hour return drive involving some intense Toronto traffic. And it had fairly good steering feel..not even sure how GM pulled that off cuz the 107k km (66000 miles) suspension was completely toasted on the front end. And I have ridden with them..not curb climbers and certainly not hard on their cars.
I think the stereo (this had XM thankfully) was fine too.
overall, much better driving than I expected, not that I would ever buy one!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Re the stereo, I think you must have misunderstood..I was giving GM credit for always having good sound.
The real puzzling thing about the stereo in Kia and Hyundai, you would think these would have basically identical sound (or within reason of course since certain small changes can affect sound) among the same classed cars. But it seems in all 3 models of each brand, the Kia seems to be weaker in this area even tho even the Hyundai's too are not that great. I think I even read that cski, whom we know is pretty Kia gung-ho and a genuine fan, was not overly impressed with his stereo in his new Optima.
And here we have the lowly Dodge 200, and someone here (mighta been you stickguy?) said the stereo was great even if the rest of the car was...well..the sales numbers above tell that story I suppose as I haven't driven one.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Food for thought
Here are some trim nicknames directly from a GM mechanic.
LT= Loose Trim
LS= Less Stuff
GT= Good Tires
My grandfather was a foreman in the GM transmission plant in Buffalo for 30 years. He ALWAYS bought Malibu's. I remember the brown '79 V6 model 2 door with vinyl bench seat very clearly. To buy Japanese up there would have been heresy in those days. (1970-80).
My Chevy experience:
I loved my 87 Z24(2.8 MFI). It was $5000 and I financed it myself at age 19 in 1990. My best friend had a blue one, so I purchased one too (red). His had the T-125 3-spd automatic, mine had the 5 speed manual and. Of course my trans developed a crack all the way down the case, causing a poor clutch alignment that resulted in damaging the pressure plate every 30 k.
Also, it ate alternators every 30 k too. However, it was quick and I loved the hood scoops, the LED digi-dash, the sound of the engine, and the A/C never broke down after 144 k. SO, aside from the two problems mentioned it was reliable.
The 1992 Z-34 was my attempt to replace my aging Z, and after 6 mos I sold it. Just a dreadful car. It never ran right. Ever. Took a $2500 loss. :sick:
Next ride? 1994 black Integra 2 door 5 speed.It was awesome. Best car I ever had. The one with the round headlights and the 142 HP 1.8. Great engine and the handling was phenomenal.
(This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting.......)
Your car looks great. Reminds me a lot of my Optima in profile. Like the 5-stars. I recommend using the Armor-all tire foam. It works best IMO; and I have tried them all.
Also, I use the Turtle Wax quick wax spray product and it is great for a quick shine in between full-on carnuba buff. Easy to use and wipes off quick. No wet towel to apply and no waiting for it to haze before polishing!
Again, congrats. ">
Actually there's at least other purchase bigger than buying a car: a college degree (undergrad or grad). As for stress... it's up there.
Mazda 6 and Fusion seemed like they were still based on the same platform, though they aren't I assume. Reminded me of each other. And big, continuing the trend in this class to jump well above my idea of midsize, and getting up into full size realm.
Both were nice, but in some ways, a bit "over"styled.
passat is very nice, and Germanic. Big though.
nicest overall seems to be the Accord. Still good sized, but seems tidier. and very nice inside.
acid test of course is how they drive. can't get that at the car show!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
To my eyes, the Fusion looks smaller than it is, and the Mazda6 and Passat look larger than they are.
I must be old, since I consider these now to be large cars (if not FS), and models like the new Jetta are the real mid-sizers.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
As for engines, most companies are moving toward 4 cylinders only in mid-size cars (Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Malibu). Japanese manufacturers will soon be dispensing with them as well. And why not? The direct injection turbo 4s have as much or more power than the much larger 6s, while giving the company's overall mpg a boost. The noise problem has been addressed, there is little to no turbo lag anymore, and the DI turbos have greater torque...a win for everyone.
Turbos used in a diesel are a lot less demanding than in a gas job. Diesels already have beefed up blocks, cranks, bearings, rods to handle the extra compression stroke etc so are already more capable of the extra torque created through turboing, and because a diesel runs so much more efficiently than a gas, it is better capable of dealing with the extra heat created by a turbo. Heat is a killer on gas jobs...oil, bearings etc all suffer if they get too hot on old oil etc.
Just watched a test on the new Altima and they were saying that the 4 made quite the racket when accelerating hard. Something Honda and Toyota seems to have under wraps.
The other thing I am truly skeptical about were the FE claims of the 13 Altima. I'm not sure what EPA is, but in Cda they were claiming a fairly significant improvement over the new Accord (which gets the nod over the Camry) in both city and highway. It was quite a difference...like about 4mpg in town and 5 difference on the highway. Considering the 13 Accord's numbers already sound impressive, makes me suspect a bit of optimism with the Altima's claimed numbers.
They also mentioned that the 4 uses a belt in the CVT now and the 6 uses a chain still. A belt will lower weight no doubt and lower rolling inertia mass, but I wonder what the lifespan of a belt will be in a car? They last pretty well on motorcycle scooters that use a CVT even with fairly large displacement engines, but when you start loading a car up with the capacity of an Altima, seems like a lot of load to keep under wraps and still provide longevity.
I say all this, naturally assuming it is an expensive replacement. For a little scooter they run over 200$, so the one for a car must be a lot richer than that, and installation is likely fairly involved too.
The last thing I NEED is a new car, but this one is tugging at my "want" side.
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I hope (and will not be surprised) if they really hit this one right outta the park..
One would assume that they have hot galvanized the body, but I wonder if the roof is too? I hear some brands are and some still aren't. Rust around a windshield can literally take an otherwise reliable, dependable and enjoyable, but long out of warranty, vehicle off the road.
(the corrosion reappears after a windshield replacement..needed for any certification.. and keeps popping the new windshield. Body repair attempts at replacing an entire windshield frame A pillars and all is obviously prohibitively expansive and still not warranted.)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Not my intention to rain on your fantasy though..
Also, their "we build Mazda's" campaign stating they build "drivers cars" like the CX-5??? It is huge and has only 155HP? Did they forget to add a 100 hp?
My mother in law works for Mazda (for 30 yrs), and she wont even buy one.
Customers want more legroom, more headroom, more features, more trunk space, etc. At the same time, the government "safety police" keeps forcing manufactures to add more crumple zones, more airbags, thicker structural members and A-C pillars, side impact beams, pedestrian safety systems (because people are too stupid to get out of the way and/or have ear buds shoved in their ears while listening to Van Halen at level 10 while jogging in the street during rush-hour with all-black sweats).......you get the picture
I have had a couple of lemons from different brands in my life but I avoid giving a brand a bad rap because of my poor luck. If everyone was having similar problems it would be a different story.
It let us down a bit. The accidents were the scary part. My brothers 03 Protege hydroplaned the same way as my wife's Mazda 6, and had the same brand and model Bridgstones.(although smaller and skinnier) He hit the brakes during a sudden downpour and slid 1/4 mile trying to regain control and plowed into the jersey wall.
Those experiences plus the breakdowns soured the milk on Mazda for us. Please do not take it personally. I am sure their new Mazda 6 is probably screwed together better than my "Son-optima". Really.
I have no axe to grind for Mazda but am just trying to give it a fair shake.
Sounds more like a "loose nut behind the wheel", if you catch my drift. My brother also has an 02 Protege approaching 200,000, with no issues other than routine maintenance.
In any event, as many have stated, every brand has had issues over the years. Since you are bringing up a 9 year old Mazda, I can tell you that 9-11 year old Honda's/Acura's had numerous transmission problems. 5 year old Toyota's have had engine sludge problems. 7 yr old VW/Audi's have had electrical problems. See where I cam going with this??
Recent evaluators of Mazda have them near the top in overall reliability. Many new Mazda's have been very, very good. And BTW, I owned a 2005 Mazda6 that was flawless until I traded it for a CX-5, which does have "zoom-zoom" per say even with 155hp. She sips fuel better than any other too.... :shades:
I drove the new Mazda6. It is quite nice, has good power and the fuel ratings are outstanding. Can't wait to see what is in store when the diesel finally arrives.
That being, that with the strict emission minimums and the general political hate of oil burners in America, regs are going to impose a greater price of admission. Sounds fair right? but if SkyActive gas job tech delivers the FE they are claiming in real world, then the diesel is only going to up that anti by about 20%. Mazda..like any others who venture to go there, will just try to camouflage the 3500-4500$ premium by offering the diesel in basically only loaded offerings. In order to recoup the purchase price premium of the diesel, the customer will have to own/drive much more than the average miles per year that Americans drive in order for the 20% fuel savings to offset that price of admission.
This opinion coming from a guy who loves diesels.
First, we have no idea how much the diesel will be, what trim levels it will be offered in or what the efficiency ratings will be. They are expected to surpass the Passat
Second, VW has been KILLING it with the TDI in the last couple years with the Passat, Golf and Jetta models. They are selling like crazy.
Buying a diesel is like buying a hybrid. It takes years before the total cost of ownership equals out when comparing to a regular gasoline engine. It will stop some, but not all. There does seem to be a demand for a clean-diesel here in the States, especially when Mazda's does not require any NOx after treatment.
Again..this coming from a guy who likes diesels and respects the entirely different rewards and amounts of how torque and the general way the engine delivers in every day use.
edit: but hey...hopefully Mazda will break this past 1.5 decade practice, and offer the diesel [non-permissible content removed] for tat for a 1200 - 1500$ premium over gas and call it a day..one can hope..
Remember when VW offered the Golf/Jetta in diesel or gas for same price? Those were the good ol' days..
I could offer my opinion on this, but in past have been accused of being a conspiracist.
Especially when you consider that it costs them less to refine diesel than gas..but I digress
And is why I used the term political in my earlier post..
There are other 'values' of a diesel other than mileage, i.e. torque. In heavier vehicles like our mini-van I'd prefer a diesel even if the fuel savings were minimal.
Sometimes manufacturers add 'gimmicks'...vtec may be nice in a sports/sporty car but for some people, especially minivan drivers and laid back drivers, revving to 4500+ rpm to gain the 'gimmick' feature means you don't take advantage of the feature.
Similarly, some people who drive a Mazda 6 may not want to rev to 5k all day. The commute in stop and go would be better served with a small diesel.
Not that I'm opposed to revving and driving like you stole it...years past, I recall driving a Civic Si for 14 Hours straight at over 5K rpm. I was going pretty fast. Luckily I didn't get a ticket...hopefully I've gained some wisdom over the years
Just a small point of reference. I drive a 2011 BMW 328xi sedan (230 hp/200 lb ft of torque). I average about 21 - 22 mpg with it. I had to bring it in for service and was given a 2011 335d (265 hp/425 lb ft of torque) as a loaner car. This diesel BMW was an absolute monster. A rocket taking off from stop, effortless passing on the highway, quiet & smooth. Oh yeah, I averaged 32 mpg with it by just driving how I normally drive (75-80 mph on the highway).
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
again, look at your 3 series. You could have gone with a 335 instead, and paid many thousands of $$ for a bigger, more powerful engine. Even after you adjust for different equipment, there is a pretty hefty premium for an engine upgrade.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
There was NO WAY I was going for a 335xi. I had to pull out the heavy artillery to convince the wife we should ditch our perfectly fine 2010 TSX (which was 1/2 paid for) in order for me to lease my 2011 328xi.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD
What about the other good choices, such as Passat, Optima, Sonata, Accord, Mazda6, etc.?
My 2 cents....
Ford does have some quality problems with the Fusion right now. I personally wouldn't buy one in the first year.
The Altima is also made in America. It's probably a better choice right now in terms of quality and reliability.
The Passat, Optima, Sonata, and Accord are also made right here in the USA.
What are you looking for in a car? For instance, how would you rank these things in terms of most important to least important: quality/reliability, style, interior room, safety, handling, acceleration, visibility, resale value, etc. What are your top 3-4 out of those—in order? That would give the people here a better idea of how to try to give you advice.