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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • Even though the Sonata got all the good press when it came out in 2011, the Optima just quietly started winning people over, including me. The shape is very nice. to me it looks like a Korean Audi. (Kia hired away an Audi designer who penned the car).

    Car and Driver said in a 5 sedan comparo "we prefer our Sonata in Optima clothing". Most magazines loved the materials in the cabin (EX with leather) and the wide power band that the 2.4 delivers. Also, it has 200 HP and most competitors are at 170-189.

    The thing about Chevy is that the car is nice and all, but it is SOOOO Rent-a-Car looking that nobody I know WANTS one. It's just not a cool car. Its for 65 year old men that still value American-Pie-Chevrolet. I gave GM a try in the early 90's and all I can think of is all the recalls on my car and how much time it spent in the shop. (Lumina 3.4L 24v V6) :lemon: Awful car.

    You guys "feel me" on this? Did any of you own a Beretta GT? Remember the Corsica? Cavalier Z24? GM HAS come a long way since then. They ARE trying and that's good news.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    Maybe the 65 year olds are buying it purely for the OEM standard stock audio system..which BLOWS anything Korean outta the water. (Kia..apparently even the Hyundai's have slightly better sound) Been reading a lot lately of Kia's...the Rio, Accent and Optima and an unfortunate theme was revealed. A very universal lack of satisfaction with their sound systems. When I say "universal", perhaps I used the word almost too loosely..there were the very odd customers who said it was just fine. But we also know that there are people out there who will listen to their radio not totally on frequency, so...enough said on that one..

    I sat in a brand new Malibu in the showroom in 2011. Trim level was under leather, but seat had full power. I simply couldn't believe how BAD it was! My old GF's 92 Grand Am's seat (3.3l V6..killer..for the time/money stock OEM stereo) was nothing to write home about, although looked comfy, but as memory serves, it was better than that 19 year newer Malibu's perch. No excuse in my opinion. Hence the low sales numbers, or at least that and numerous other reasons..hence the low sales numbers. It is obvious that GM's idea of what appeals to the wanna-buy-US mentality is sorely lacking in this class of car. And the kicker is...it's not a cheap car to purchase!

    I wonder if they still use those plastic V intake manifolds that crack when barely aged? It's stuff like that that people remember and stir comments like cski's probably never going back.

    Btw, cski, that 65 year comment? That's still a ways off for me, but at the rate the years are flying by, not that far away. I think you should have said at least 80 year old. I have some elderly friends who I drive them (in their car usually) down to the city for hospital appointments. She is 88 and he is 91. They have bought Malibus for the last few decades. Their late 90's had a better seat than their latest 2010 has. I will say though, the late 90's one or mighta been a 2000? V6 got fairly good fuel economy on a 6 hour return drive involving some intense Toronto traffic. And it had fairly good steering feel..not even sure how GM pulled that off cuz the 107k km (66000 miles) suspension was completely toasted on the front end. And I have ridden with them..not curb climbers and certainly not hard on their cars.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    seats are personal opinion. I had a malibu rental back in October (mid range, with suede of some kind inserts?) that I drove from NJ to VA for business. About 5 hours each way, and I really liked the seats. Very comfortable and supportive.

    I think the stereo (this had XM thankfully) was fine too.

    overall, much better driving than I expected, not that I would ever buy one!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Yes, that is quite true about seats. We all have so many different body shapes etc.

    Re the stereo, I think you must have misunderstood..I was giving GM credit for always having good sound.

    The real puzzling thing about the stereo in Kia and Hyundai, you would think these would have basically identical sound (or within reason of course since certain small changes can affect sound) among the same classed cars. But it seems in all 3 models of each brand, the Kia seems to be weaker in this area even tho even the Hyundai's too are not that great. I think I even read that cski, whom we know is pretty Kia gung-ho and a genuine fan, was not overly impressed with his stereo in his new Optima.

    And here we have the lowly Dodge 200, and someone here (mighta been you stickguy?) said the stereo was great even if the rest of the car was...well..the sales numbers above tell that story I suppose as I haven't driven one.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    wasn't me with a 200. I have never driven one. And will be quite happy to live me life never having driven one!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • The MAS also works in conjunction with the Throttle Position Sensor; which alters the parameters in the PCM. It's pretty complicated when you consider all the conditions. Cars are spaceships today compared with cars built up to the mid 1980's. Just the PCM module in all of our cars has 100,000 more computing power than the guidance computer in the Apollo LEM.

    Food for thought
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2013
    It's funny you mentioned Toronto...not far from my families origins in Buffalo NY.

    Here are some trim nicknames directly from a GM mechanic.
    LT= Loose Trim
    LS= Less Stuff
    GT= Good Tires

    My grandfather was a foreman in the GM transmission plant in Buffalo for 30 years. He ALWAYS bought Malibu's. I remember the brown '79 V6 model 2 door with vinyl bench seat very clearly. To buy Japanese up there would have been heresy in those days. (1970-80).

    My Chevy experience:
    I loved my 87 Z24(2.8 MFI). It was $5000 and I financed it myself at age 19 in 1990. My best friend had a blue one, so I purchased one too (red). His had the T-125 3-spd automatic, mine had the 5 speed manual and. Of course my trans developed a crack all the way down the case, causing a poor clutch alignment that resulted in damaging the pressure plate every 30 k.
    Also, it ate alternators every 30 k too. However, it was quick and I loved the hood scoops, the LED digi-dash, the sound of the engine, and the A/C never broke down after 144 k. SO, aside from the two problems mentioned it was reliable.
    The 1992 Z-34 was my attempt to replace my aging Z, and after 6 mos I sold it. Just a dreadful car. It never ran right. Ever. Took a $2500 loss. :sick:

    Next ride? 1994 black Integra 2 door 5 speed.It was awesome. Best car I ever had. The one with the round headlights and the 142 HP 1.8. Great engine and the handling was phenomenal.
  • puppybone69puppybone69 Member Posts: 24
    edited January 2013
    This is my Fusion, there are many like it, but this one is mine! My Fusion
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Nice!

    (This is my rifle, this is my gun. This is for fighting.......)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Looks good. I like the wheels. Nice clean 5 spokes..hard to beat.
  • Only buying a home is a more significant purchase in life. (and also very stressful).

    Your car looks great. Reminds me a lot of my Optima in profile. Like the 5-stars. I recommend using the Armor-all tire foam. It works best IMO; and I have tried them all.

    Also, I use the Turtle Wax quick wax spray product and it is great for a quick shine in between full-on carnuba buff. Easy to use and wipes off quick. No wet towel to apply and no waiting for it to haze before polishing!

    Again, congrats. ">
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited January 2013
    Only buying a home is a more significant purchase in life.

    Actually there's at least other purchase bigger than buying a car: a college degree (undergrad or grad). As for stress... it's up there.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    went to the Philly car show today, so saw all the new models.

    Mazda 6 and Fusion seemed like they were still based on the same platform, though they aren't I assume. Reminded me of each other. And big, continuing the trend in this class to jump well above my idea of midsize, and getting up into full size realm.

    Both were nice, but in some ways, a bit "over"styled.

    passat is very nice, and Germanic. Big though.

    nicest overall seems to be the Accord. Still good sized, but seems tidier. and very nice inside.

    acid test of course is how they drive. can't get that at the car show!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • It is interesting how these cars are perceived in the metal. The Accord, Fusion, Mazda6, Malibu and Passat are all approximately 191.5 inches long, varying no more than a couple 10ths of an inch. The Fusion is the longest and widest, but again we are talking fractions of an inch. The Passat is the narrowest, and both the Mazda and Fusion have longer wheelbases than Passat. The Malibu is the widest (1/10th of an inch wider than the Fusion).

    To my eyes, the Fusion looks smaller than it is, and the Mazda6 and Passat look larger than they are.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    agreed about perceptions, but to me, the Fusion looked pretty darned big too!

    I must be old, since I consider these now to be large cars (if not FS), and models like the new Jetta are the real mid-sizers.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • romil01romil01 Member Posts: 75
    I went to a Mazda dealership this morning before they were open. They had a 2014 Mazda6 sitting outside with no sticker on it. It was the Soul Red Metallica color that Mazda has used in almost all the promo photos, and man was that a beautiful car. Easily the best looking midsize sedan available, even when compared to the Fusion, Sonata, or Optima. I can't wait to go back and test drive one when they are actually on sale and they have more stock to choose from. This one appeared to be loaded from looking inside the window. The only problem I see is the lack of a V-6 option. After driving the 2013 Accord EX-L V-6, a four-cylinder is going to have its work cut out in order to impress me. I'm not that concerned with fuel economy.
  • I think the Mazda is easily the best looking/most distinctive of the lot.

    As for engines, most companies are moving toward 4 cylinders only in mid-size cars (Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Malibu). Japanese manufacturers will soon be dispensing with them as well. And why not? The direct injection turbo 4s have as much or more power than the much larger 6s, while giving the company's overall mpg a boost. The noise problem has been addressed, there is little to no turbo lag anymore, and the DI turbos have greater torque...a win for everyone.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I have rarely ever felt I needed a 6. Would I have liked to have one, if price and ongoing FE was not an issue? Of course..but since both parameters are and always will be an issue for me, I guess I am going to be ok with 4's for life. Now turbos...the new ones that are designed to run on 87, will we see longevity from them? The kind that we have grown to assume from NA engines? Time will tell. Of course they are all the rage now and really do make a lot of sense for many reasons and having such low end torque where you use it in everyday driving is intoxicating and that much more so when you consider you are having that much fun without the same fuel hit of a similar output 6. Longevity/$ spent is the wild card, IMO..and like I say, time will tell.

    Turbos used in a diesel are a lot less demanding than in a gas job. Diesels already have beefed up blocks, cranks, bearings, rods to handle the extra compression stroke etc so are already more capable of the extra torque created through turboing, and because a diesel runs so much more efficiently than a gas, it is better capable of dealing with the extra heat created by a turbo. Heat is a killer on gas jobs...oil, bearings etc all suffer if they get too hot on old oil etc.

    Just watched a test on the new Altima and they were saying that the 4 made quite the racket when accelerating hard. Something Honda and Toyota seems to have under wraps.

    The other thing I am truly skeptical about were the FE claims of the 13 Altima. I'm not sure what EPA is, but in Cda they were claiming a fairly significant improvement over the new Accord (which gets the nod over the Camry) in both city and highway. It was quite a difference...like about 4mpg in town and 5 difference on the highway. Considering the 13 Accord's numbers already sound impressive, makes me suspect a bit of optimism with the Altima's claimed numbers.

    They also mentioned that the 4 uses a belt in the CVT now and the 6 uses a chain still. A belt will lower weight no doubt and lower rolling inertia mass, but I wonder what the lifespan of a belt will be in a car? They last pretty well on motorcycle scooters that use a CVT even with fairly large displacement engines, but when you start loading a car up with the capacity of an Altima, seems like a lot of load to keep under wraps and still provide longevity.
    I say all this, naturally assuming it is an expensive replacement. For a little scooter they run over 200$, so the one for a car must be a lot richer than that, and installation is likely fairly involved too.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I have been very impressed by what I've seen/read about the new Mazda6. I love the looks, inside and out, and love the FE of the Skyactiv powertrain. Also the fact it comes with a 6MT standard on the lower trims. I checked out the specs and features on mazdausa.com last night and found that I could probably be happy with the base (Sport) model. I was thinking of a small hatch for my next car, but if the Mazda6 is close in price to the likes of the Mazda3i Touring hatch (which is nearly $21k list for the 6MT) I might be tempted to up-size.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    It's a beautiful car. I want mine in red, of course.
    The last thing I NEED is a new car, but this one is tugging at my "want" side.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    Wow..is it ever a looker, eh? I especially appreciate that it's a 6 speed in lieu of a CVT. Also love that fact that they lost the red instrumentation lighting. Gawd I hate red dash displays. They literally were a deal breaker for me in the past.

    I hope (and will not be surprised) if they really hit this one right outta the park..

    One would assume that they have hot galvanized the body, but I wonder if the roof is too? I hear some brands are and some still aren't. Rust around a windshield can literally take an otherwise reliable, dependable and enjoyable, but long out of warranty, vehicle off the road.
    (the corrosion reappears after a windshield replacement..needed for any certification.. and keeps popping the new windshield. Body repair attempts at replacing an entire windshield frame A pillars and all is obviously prohibitively expansive and still not warranted.)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Red would normally be my choice, but I just leased a ruby red Sonata for my wife (beautiful in that color) and I also have a red Elantra GT in the family stable (driven by my son to college). So I might have to go another route on my next car. And truth be told, I don't really NEED a NEW car; I do need a car by this fall but depending on finances at the time I could go used. The automakers make it so darn hard to go used though!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    after seeing them at the car show, I was having trouble justifying buying one of these when for the same price, I could get a 2 YO 3 series, with pretty low miles on it.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    "All these" are much larger than a 3 series. Heck they're almost all larger than a 5 series even.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    well, I don't need that much room, and find the new models to really qualify as "full size", so not a drawback to me!

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yeah, I've gone the used 3 Series route before. Fun car... not fun paying for parts/maintenance though!
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    If you don't need the room then you should be comparing the 2 yr old 3 series to a new Focus (Corolla, Civic, etc.), not a new Fusion or Camry or Accord.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    It's not even a fair financial comparison really when you get right down to it...size notwithstanding. The 2 YO 3 Series would have already given its very best years on earth to the first owner. And too soon will start to saddle you with regular $'s input for the rest of your fling.

    Not my intention to rain on your fantasy though..
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    You're probabably comparing a dollar amount which you think you can buy the used 3 series for against the MSRP of the new Mazda6. Shortly after introduction you will routinely get $2-3k discounts off the Mazda6 so there would be a little more spread.
  • Just a word of caution on Mazda's. I had a 2004 Mazda 6 SportWagon (black) w/ the V6. The A/C broke 3 times, the water pump went at 68k, the alternator went at 79k, and the trans died at 120k. It was plagued with emissions related check engine lights, 2 wheels got bent under normal use, and the car had terrible traction when the tires got 1/2 used....resulting in my wife hydroplaning and T/L'd it. Don't even get me started on my brother's Protege. So, we have had quite enough Mazda.

    Also, their "we build Mazda's" campaign stating they build "drivers cars" like the CX-5??? It is huge and has only 155HP? Did they forget to add a 100 hp?

    My mother in law works for Mazda (for 30 yrs), and she wont even buy one.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2013
    Well, the size increases of mid size sedans are driven by a couple of factors.

    Customers want more legroom, more headroom, more features, more trunk space, etc. At the same time, the government "safety police" keeps forcing manufactures to add more crumple zones, more airbags, thicker structural members and A-C pillars, side impact beams, pedestrian safety systems (because people are too stupid to get out of the way and/or have ear buds shoved in their ears while listening to Van Halen at level 10 while jogging in the street during rush-hour with all-black sweats).......you get the picture :D
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I'm sure that you could get somebody from every car brand who had a lemon that could give "a word of caution". My experience with Mazda has been the exact opposite of yours. Not one repair that I have had to pay for in 6 years and 95k miles. Two small adjustments...one handled at first oil change and second was a missing screw from a sun visor which they replaced for nothing at 75k miles. They also just installed a new battery in my remote fob for nothing during an oil change. Granted, a lot of this is the dealer but still the car has performed flawlessly. Consumer Reports shows the Mazda6 since 2006 has had a very good repair record.

    I have had a couple of lemons from different brands in my life but I avoid giving a brand a bad rap because of my poor luck. If everyone was having similar problems it would be a different story.
  • My two Mazdas were among the most reliable of the 30 or so vehicles I have owned. 2004 was nine model years ago. Manufacturers can move up and down the reliability ratings quite a bit in that amount of time.
  • gene84gene84 Member Posts: 9
    On the other hand my 2004 Prius has over 210,00 miles and going strong. Water pump went out at 125,00-miles but Toyota paid for it. The brakes will last forever, no major maintenance, no belts, hoses, transmission service required, etc., etc. Local taxi company says they are "bullet proof" you can't "kill them"
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited January 2013
    Hey guys. I am just sharing my experience with Mazda. It was a very, very nice car and I bought it for my wife. It drove great, had 240 HP and every available option.

    It let us down a bit. The accidents were the scary part. My brothers 03 Protege hydroplaned the same way as my wife's Mazda 6, and had the same brand and model Bridgstones.(although smaller and skinnier) He hit the brakes during a sudden downpour and slid 1/4 mile trying to regain control and plowed into the jersey wall.

    Those experiences plus the breakdowns soured the milk on Mazda for us. Please do not take it personally. I am sure their new Mazda 6 is probably screwed together better than my "Son-optima". Really.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    How is that even remotely a Mazda fault? The tires must have been too worn or the driver was going too fast for conditions.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I have no problem with people reporting their direct experiences with any automobile(midsize of course since that is the topic). If one prefaces with saying that they have no idea if this is still the case since they talking about a car from 8 model years ago or that it even remotely relates to other's expereiences with said car. To my knowledge, Mazda has been using Micheilen brand tires for years(at least since 2007) if that even applies since most hydroplaing is a combo of tire tread, conditions and speed. Actually cannot remember the last I hydroplaned in a vehicle and I drive fairly aggressively. Think about it, a quarter mile of hydroplaning is a long distance assuming he had his foot off the gas and tapping the brakes. Sounds to me like someone going way to fast for conditions but I wasn't there so maybe the Bridgestones were particlularly bad rain tires. I don't know.

    I have no axe to grind for Mazda but am just trying to give it a fair shake.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    My brothers 03 Protege hydroplaned the same way as my wife's Mazda 6, and had the same brand and model Bridgstones.(although smaller and skinnier) He hit the brakes during a sudden downpour and slid 1/4 mile trying to regain control and plowed into the jersey wall.

    Sounds more like a "loose nut behind the wheel", if you catch my drift. My brother also has an 02 Protege approaching 200,000, with no issues other than routine maintenance.

    In any event, as many have stated, every brand has had issues over the years. Since you are bringing up a 9 year old Mazda, I can tell you that 9-11 year old Honda's/Acura's had numerous transmission problems. 5 year old Toyota's have had engine sludge problems. 7 yr old VW/Audi's have had electrical problems. See where I cam going with this??

    Recent evaluators of Mazda have them near the top in overall reliability. Many new Mazda's have been very, very good. And BTW, I owned a 2005 Mazda6 that was flawless until I traded it for a CX-5, which does have "zoom-zoom" per say even with 155hp. She sips fuel better than any other too.... :shades:

    I drove the new Mazda6. It is quite nice, has good power and the fuel ratings are outstanding. Can't wait to see what is in store when the diesel finally arrives.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I too respect any diesel effort..but with a caveat..

    That being, that with the strict emission minimums and the general political hate of oil burners in America, regs are going to impose a greater price of admission. Sounds fair right? but if SkyActive gas job tech delivers the FE they are claiming in real world, then the diesel is only going to up that anti by about 20%. Mazda..like any others who venture to go there, will just try to camouflage the 3500-4500$ premium by offering the diesel in basically only loaded offerings. In order to recoup the purchase price premium of the diesel, the customer will have to own/drive much more than the average miles per year that Americans drive in order for the 20% fuel savings to offset that price of admission.

    This opinion coming from a guy who loves diesels.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Two things....

    First, we have no idea how much the diesel will be, what trim levels it will be offered in or what the efficiency ratings will be. They are expected to surpass the Passat

    Second, VW has been KILLING it with the TDI in the last couple years with the Passat, Golf and Jetta models. They are selling like crazy.

    Buying a diesel is like buying a hybrid. It takes years before the total cost of ownership equals out when comparing to a regular gasoline engine. It will stop some, but not all. There does seem to be a demand for a clean-diesel here in the States, especially when Mazda's does not require any NOx after treatment.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    I hear ya..but let's plan to revisit this page and date when they are finally out and prices and equipment levels have been announced.
    Again..this coming from a guy who likes diesels and respects the entirely different rewards and amounts of how torque and the general way the engine delivers in every day use.

    edit: but hey...hopefully Mazda will break this past 1.5 decade practice, and offer the diesel [non-permissible content removed] for tat for a 1200 - 1500$ premium over gas and call it a day..one can hope..
    Remember when VW offered the Golf/Jetta in diesel or gas for same price? Those were the good ol' days..
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Then there's the price premium for diesel fuel. In my town it's about 30% over 87 octane (why so much, I have no idea). So the diesel Mazda6 would need to get 50+ mpg in real world highway driving to overcome that. Tough bar to cross for a midsized sedan. Plus whatever the purchase price premium is.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    it's about 30% over 87 octane (why so much, I have no idea)

    I could offer my opinion on this, but in past have been accused of being a conspiracist.
    Especially when you consider that it costs them less to refine diesel than gas..but I digress :(

    And is why I used the term political in my earlier post..
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Buying a diesel is like buying a hybrid. It takes years before the total cost of ownership equals out when comparing to a regular gasoline engine.

    There are other 'values' of a diesel other than mileage, i.e. torque. In heavier vehicles like our mini-van I'd prefer a diesel even if the fuel savings were minimal.

    Sometimes manufacturers add 'gimmicks'...vtec may be nice in a sports/sporty car but for some people, especially minivan drivers and laid back drivers, revving to 4500+ rpm to gain the 'gimmick' feature means you don't take advantage of the feature.

    Similarly, some people who drive a Mazda 6 may not want to rev to 5k all day. The commute in stop and go would be better served with a small diesel.

    Not that I'm opposed to revving and driving like you stole it...years past, I recall driving a Civic Si for 14 Hours straight at over 5K rpm. I was going pretty fast. Luckily I didn't get a ticket...hopefully I've gained some wisdom over the years ;)
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    Unless you are a taxi driver that puts 100s of thousands of miles on your car, one may never see the financial benefit of buying a hybrid or diesel. But if you think of diesel as an engine upgrade, then the extra fuel mileage is just a bonus.

    Just a small point of reference. I drive a 2011 BMW 328xi sedan (230 hp/200 lb ft of torque). I average about 21 - 22 mpg with it. I had to bring it in for service and was given a 2011 335d (265 hp/425 lb ft of torque) as a loaner car. This diesel BMW was an absolute monster. A rocket taking off from stop, effortless passing on the highway, quiet & smooth. Oh yeah, I averaged 32 mpg with it by just driving how I normally drive (75-80 mph on the highway).

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    good point about engine upgrades.'

    again, look at your 3 series. You could have gone with a 335 instead, and paid many thousands of $$ for a bigger, more powerful engine. Even after you adjust for different equipment, there is a pretty hefty premium for an engine upgrade.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    True, but look at the price difference of the Passat (2.5) & the TDi. Drive the 2 cars back to back & tell me the TDi isn't worth it.

    There was NO WAY I was going for a 335xi. I had to pull out the heavy artillery to convince the wife we should ditch our perfectly fine 2010 TSX (which was 1/2 paid for) in order for me to lease my 2011 328xi.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • pegasus17pegasus17 Member Posts: 536
    The Passat is a completely different (and much better) car with the TDI engine versus the anemic 2.5. Unfortunately, the price difference (approx. 5k) is too high (for me)...
  • hill02hill02 Member Posts: 3
    At this point I've read a ridiculous amount of bias online reviews concerning the 2013 Nissan altima and the new Ford Fusion. "Ford haters" that seem to comment on EVERY fusion review claim the vehicle is basically..well crap, just because it's a Ford(American made watch out!).Those who claim they've recently purchased the new altima complain about the car shaking, along with seating and steering issues. Both cars have great safety ratings and there's really no price difference with the vehicles being stripped or fully loaded. I've personally seen both vehicles interior and exterior in person and in the looks category the Ford Fusion wins. Pictures do this car no justice! My only problem with purchasing this vehicle are the recent recall scares(specifically the engine fires!) leaving me to believe that if this car already has 2 recalls in the past few months it has been out, will there be more later? This led me to go for the safer option, which is, the Nissan Altima. The updated altima is safe and attractive in a Nissan way, but is that all the car has to offer? I want something new and fresh! So the point of this is, I need some more views people have on my personal debate between the Ford fusion and the Nissan altima. Which car would you choose and why? Tell me about your experience with driving or owning one of these vehicles! In the end I know the decision is only mine, but I would like to be completely aware of any issues to look out for before choosing a car!
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Why are you limiting yourself just to those two?

    What about the other good choices, such as Passat, Optima, Sonata, Accord, Mazda6, etc.?

    My 2 cents....

    Ford does have some quality problems with the Fusion right now. I personally wouldn't buy one in the first year.

    The Altima is also made in America. It's probably a better choice right now in terms of quality and reliability.

    The Passat, Optima, Sonata, and Accord are also made right here in the USA.

    What are you looking for in a car? For instance, how would you rank these things in terms of most important to least important: quality/reliability, style, interior room, safety, handling, acceleration, visibility, resale value, etc. What are your top 3-4 out of those—in order? That would give the people here a better idea of how to try to give you advice.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
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