Midsize Sedans 2.0

scwmcan · February 2013

Okay thanks for explaining, I would agree in that case there is probably something wrong with the tank, probably with the evaporative recovery system, I think most cars have a flap of some sort to help air bleed out when filling the tank, my guess would be it isn't working ( however the accomplish this).

benjaminh · February 2013

The Sonata was rated Marginal in the new IIHS crash test. Only the Accord of the top sellers was rated Good. By paying more you got thatvery high grade steel in selected areas to help save your life, just in case. Marginal on the Sonata is two ratings down from Good.

Also, the Accord has slighter faster acceleration than the Sonata, slightly better mpg, better handling, etc. The Accord also has better rear visibility, and you can roll down the rear windows all the way.

The Accord definitely has some advantages.

The Sonata has some advantages too, including lower price, more interior storage, etc., as you talked about in your very good review.

pegasus17 · February 2013

REF: 17477
In the test you mention the driver side curtain did not deploy on the Sonata while it did on the Optima - hmmm. Camry was a real mess in that test. However, I am not inclined to let this one test totally affect my buying decision. I am down to 3-4 choices to evaluate in the next 2 months. Right now, Accord is #1, optima is #2, 2012 Camry is #3 (only because of the killer lease deals available this month; money factor = 0.00001). If the 2014 Sonata gets released by April or May, that will be a player. I .like the looks of the Mazda 6 but i refuse to pay near MSRP for the new toy...

benjaminh · February 2013

I think the Optima is a good choice!

I would personally stay away from the Camry, bc not only did it get a Poor rating in that crash test, it also tends to be rated last or close to last in most comparison tests.

The Optima has only one drawback that I can figure outit has very thick rear pillars, and even people who love the car otherwise (cski?) seem to say that's a bit of a drawback in terms of blind spots. Mirrors can help, of course, but I personally value being able to see all around me if I look back and want to change lanes with 100% confidence.

I do like the style of the Optima. And I think the quality of the Optima is about the same as a Honda at this pointin other words very good. It also seems like a good thing that the Optima is made right here in the USA at KIA's excellent factory in West Point, Georgia.

Trivia fact: KIA originally stood for "Kyungsung Precision Industry."

If I may ask, what's your budget and/or what trim level or options are you considering?

crkyolfrt · February 2013

Interesting review. The lack of a glove box light in an EX I find harder to accept than a lack of Homelink. I wonder if it is there and the bulb or wiring connection is faulty? They usually only work with the lights on too, so if you are trying this in a dark garage, try turning parking lights on..don't forget to turn them back off of course. Shouldn't have to do that though. I doubt there were that many glovebox doors being left open killing batteries..

crkyolfrt · February 2013

"Rear seat leg space - The floor bump is much higher than the Sonata's. "

I wonder if the lower hump contributes to the Sonata's poorer crash rating too? The main reason humps have been retained even though they no longer have to make room for a driveshaft, is chassis structural rigidity and crash standards design.

fury63 · February 2013

Exactly! Thank you for confirming. One thing I've never tried is going back to the station after a mile or two and to see if I can get more in. I hope it's addressed relatively soon. If you hear anything on your side I would appreciate it.

benjaminh · February 2013

re: glove box light. I don't think the 2013 Accord has one. Don't see it on the spec page anyway:

http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specifications.aspx

For 2013, Honda added a couple of thousand dollars of new standard equipment, but only raised the price a few hundred dollars. Examples of things they added to even the base LX model: new stronger ACEII body structure with ultra-high grade steel (outperforms not just Toyota but BMW, Mercedes, and Audi in IIHS small-offset crash tests), back up camera, much more advanced engines and transmissions, dual zone climate control, alloy wheels, bluetooth, pandora, sms text msg, etc.

But, unfortunately, they did take out a few things in this generation, including the light in the glove box and the ski pass through for the back seat. Again, it's too bad, but to me it's a decent trade off to get the other things.

I'd rather have the body structure that outperformed Mercedes than a light in my glove box. The Accord still has two map lights, a dome light, and lighted vanity mirrors.

Instead of a glove box light you get:

"The 2013 Accord unit-body uses 55.8-percent high-tensile steel, more than in any previous Accord. In addition, 17.2-percent of the steel is now grade 780, 980 and 1,500  extremely high grades that have never before been used in any Accord. This contributes to higher body rigidity and reduced weight, which directly benefits ride and handling, interior quietness, performance and efficiency and long-term durability.....Collision safety engineering includes the updated Advanced Compatibility Engineering (ACE) body structure, which improves occupant protection and crash compatibility in frontal collisions, and the most extensive use of high-strength steel in Accord history. "

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?g=honda-automobiles&id=6825-en

tundradweller1 · February 2013

I've driven two models of the 2014 Mazda 6 along with others in this segment.
The Accord Sport looks like a interesting option, driven the LX. The Optima does not have a spare tire, jack or a place to store them (!!??) One thing to consider if you live where it snows 18" and larger wide profile tires can be hazardous. Had to buy dedicated rims and snow tires for the wifes Sonata 2.0T
While asking a woman at my office about her Nissan Altima 2.5 I mentioned the 2014 Mazda 6. She laughed and told me of her Husbands Mazda that started rusting out a few years after they bought it. Now it has holes all over it.
I research Mazda's rusting on the web and it is wide spread across the model line and not just the old Protege's either. Read the reviews and find many owners who say Mazda did not fix the rust issues and they will never buy another one.
Mazda forums say to have your car rust proofed every year if you live in the salt belt.
Real shame about the 2014 Mazda 6 as I would buy this car on every other merit.

pegasus17 · February 2013

REF: 17484
The new Mazda6 is made in Japan and the initial quality seems outstanding based on visual observations I've made. Can't say much about the rust issue, though. I would NEVER buy a first-year model but leasing is definitely the way to go for me.
RE: Kia Optima. They now offer a spare tire as an option (~$100) so there must be someplace to put it (under floor area in the trunk). I wouldn't consider the Optima unless they added this essential feature.
RE: Honda Accord Sport. This is the most popular accord model at the moment due to price/feature content. I can get an EX for only $1000 more than the Sport due to oversupply. Still deciding...

m6user · February 2013

I believe this to be an old problem with Mazda that hasn't been the case for many years. Early Hondas used to be rust buckets too and if people stopped buying them where would they be now. I have a 2007 Mazda6 with over 90k miles and not a spot of rust. If you think I am anal about keeping it clean...think again. I rarely wash it in the winter and wax it about every other year. Chicagoland winters aren't easy on cars finishes either. There were some problems with the early Proteges if I recall but that was quite some time ago. Early Hyundai/Kia products were junk too. They got their act together. I believe Mazda has done the same. IMO every manufacturer of midsize cars has increased their quality during the past 12 years. If one bought on experience from 12 years ago nobody would be buying the Fusion, Sonata, Optima, Passat, or others. They have all improved greatly.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

Mazda most certainly did have an issue, from about 2002 to apprx 2006?

This has been discussed before and always the same old things are said, but in doing so, does not negate the fact that Mazda did have a problem and they also alienated many customers by not taking responsibility for the KNOWN defect, be it the use of poorly or non-galvanized metal. The rust issues around the wheel wells were so severe that you can't just blame it on poor paint or prep.

Honda (nor any other competing brand during those years) had this issue, so not sure why you singled it out. You may not have had trouble with your 07 but that doesn't mean that it took Mazda 5 years to address it, thereby causing all those owner's with MY's older than yours to be victims of premature lost value in their cars. It's a pretty sensitive issue that people are going to defend if need be.

m6user · February 2013

Did I not say they had an issue? I can't comment on how they handled it because I wasn't intimately involved in it. The early Hondas were a joke in the 70s and early 80s and the issues with rust they had. Maybe they handled it better than Mazda did. Companies make mistakes. Maybe we should all go over to the Audi forums and warn people not to buy Audis because they once had a bad problem with unintended acceleration and they didn't handle it very good at the outset. Or over to Toyota because of their recent recalls and Hondas for their tranny problems about 9 years ago, or Nissan for their early CVT problems. Things do change and companies do correct problems.

CR shows better then average results for the Mazda3(successor to the Protege) for body integrity and paint etc since 2005. That is over 8 years.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

I really wish you had owned a 2002 Protege 5. Pretty sure it would have faltered your present day undying loyalty to the brand. It is only human nature to sometimes have to feel the actual heat in order to know they were burned.

And not sure why you are bringing up a time period 43 years ago? lol
But since you went there, I'll try to accommodate it. In any event it didn't help any point you were trying to make regarding poorly built vehicles in the last decade. This was a relatively short time ago using your multiple decade example, during a time period in which the ONLY brand that had this rust issue was Mazda. That pretty much puts the focus on them. Even poorly designed/built non-galvanized Kia's of the time didn't have the so obvious issue that Mazda did.

m6user · February 2013

I get it, you absolutely hate Mazda and have an undying vendetta against them. That's fine. I really am not an undyingly loyalist or hater of any brand. I have one Mazda out of three vehicles that I own and may or may not buy another. I just related that I have had a great experience with the one I own in an effort to be fair and offer a different experience with the brand. I've had a couple of very bad experiences with a couple of brands but I don't go spouting out that nobody should ever consider that brand agains because of a problem they had ten years ago.

I had plenty of recent examples as current as your Protege example. I simply mentioned the very old Honda issue as an example of how a company can go from the laughing stock to a very respected quality manufacturer and of course you jumped on IT and ignored the other examples. Very typical. lol.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

I will refrain from rebutting what is typical, other than to say that once again you put words in others mouths in an attempt to justify your back-paddling.

And nowhere did I suggest anyone not buy a Madza, my intention, like you say yours was, was to inform and offer input that they can either use or not, their choice.
And you don't get it...if you did, you would not say I hate Mazda. I do not. But I also do not have respect for any company that does not do the no-brainer right thing, when it is glaring everyone in the face.
I'm out...just no more putting words in my mouth please.

m6user · February 2013

Don't know what you mean by back-paddling as I haven't changed my position or my statements. I guess we can agree that the rust problem for Mazda was 10 years ago and hasn't been an issue with any Mazda models since that time. Is that fair?

It's just like saying that Honda had some tranny problems during the same time frame but hasn't had any significant problems with their trannies since.

pegasus17 · February 2013

The PC term is LGBT..................lol

m6user · February 2013

Had to look that one up. Good one!

benjaminh · February 2013

Which cars do you think are the best in class in these categories? Some of them are factual, in that you can just say a particular car has the highest EPA # or acceleration, but others are subjective such as:

Best style: Fusion, Mazda6, Optima, Accord (to me I'd put all those as equal, although I know most others don't like the Accord as much).

Best mpg: Altima (31 combined mpg), Accord (30), Mazda6 (30), Optima (28), Fusion (28)

Best acceleration: believe the Accord wins this one for both 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder models, but I'd have to look it up...

Best reliability & quality: ?

Best safety: Accord for now, according to IIHS

Most bang for the buck: ?

Best visibility: Accord

Best dealers: ?

Best resale value: ?

Lowest maintenance costs: ?

Best handling: ?

Best braking: ?

Best paint colors: ?

Best seats: ?

Most interior room: ?

Biggest trunk: ?

Best glove box light: Not the Accord is all I know. Do the others have one?

Best interior storage: again, not the Accord, but I don't know which one is best for this.

tundradweller1 · February 2013

Thank you M6user for your experience : (Quote: I have a 2007 Mazda6 with over 90k miles and not a spot of rust. If you think I am anal about keeping it clean...think again. I rarely wash it in the winter and wax it about every other year. Chicagoland winters aren't easy on cars finishes either. There were some problems with the early Proteges if I recall but that was quite some time ago.) 5+ years with no rust in the Midwest with similar non-obsessive washing/detailing habits. This gives a good indication Mazda has addressed the issue.
Hopefully the new high tensile alloy metals are even better.
Granted every auto maker has some major trouble. Toyota has the the most recalls ever yet they still outsell everyone. Carry on....

backy · February 2013

Accord equal in style to the Mazda6, Fusion, and Optima? Well, ok... everyone is entitled to his opinion.

IMO the Accord should be ranked just above the Camry... at the BOTTOM of the "style" list. Maybe tied with the Passat. And I'd add the Sonata to the top group on style. It's a polarizing style, but... it's style.

A lot of the other categories are objective. But for "best bang for the buck", I'd put the Accord at the bottom of the list, with the top being maybe the Optima, followed closely by the Sonata and Passat. That one depends a lot on the current incentives picture though.

As for lowest maintenance costs... I think the cars with the long warranties have a decided advantage there. But it also depends on dealer practices, e.g. do they offer free oil changes and/or free extended warranties?

crkyolfrt · February 2013

And this to do with cars how?

Way to make an enemy, Peggy.

crkyolfrt · February 2013

Hilarious, your first post left the impression that you were looking for feedback.
Sorry I wasted my time.

Way to ingratiate yourself. But there were far far far more worthy candidates..oh well..

crkyolfrt · February 2013

This is actually a pretty worthy list, Benjamin. IMO, though, basically even your very first items are also potentially subjective, since we know that some autos aren't that close to their EPA. Acceleration too, in that not everyone does 0-60 blasts. Sometimes they might prefer a quick boot from 45 to 65 or whatever. And then the numbers might be shaken up a bit.

I got a chuckle out of the best glove box light question. Regardless of how much so-called content Honda may have re-inserted back into the car, I still consider this penny-pinching tactic, a glaring omission. In my mind that type of cost-cutting makes me wonder where else Honda has crunched such ridiculousness. Just think of the possibilities..."If we chop 3/8" of length off every wire on every harness we can save x $ on our production. No matter that harnesses pulled and stressed to their limit..for the few failures we may have to wty, we'll clean up on this move in the end. Plus, just think of the quick go-to fixes our service shops can do well outta wty, since we'll already have a shortcut to the problem areas".

Or whatever, pick your own example..

For my interests, if most of these cars are relatively equal, I put exterior aesthetics aside, and place visibility out of the car as a priority. When operating any machinery in which there is constant interactivity, being able to see around you easily, is a stress reducer. Makes you safer too and can make crash worthiness less of an issue. Interestingly, Honda scores best in both these regards. If I recall, I think the low belt line was one of the characteristics of Honda's Civic that contributed to their popularity back in the good old days. Nowadays crash standards have us all sitting in a bucket it seems.

Kirstie_H · February 2013

Take it outside if you want to throw personal insults. Our forums are available to talk about cars, not other members.

[Deleted User] · February 2013

You know, in defense of Honda; I think the new model is WAY better than the last three. It looks well built and classy. I like it's lines and am happy that Honda turned things around. I would have bought the EX if it had a 6 speed automatic instead of a CVT. However, I was ready to buy in December 2011..and the Optima was the best deal in town at that time IMO.

It's nothing personal...I am just not ready to take home a CVT.

Looking back a few years though, and I am amazed that Honda survived the 2003-2007 model years.

That Buick looking jelly bean on-wheels 2003-05 had no style whatsoever. Even the fully loaded EX-L V6 was white toast on wheels. Honda responded to sagging sales by slightly changing the rear fascia with equally boring triangle taillights for the 2006-07 model. Then relief came with the 2008, but only just so.

So, to me the new design is a revelation in comparison. Also, Honda has made the rear view camera standard on all models, and it is the ONE OPTION I regret not getting. (you guys know I bi*** about the Optima blind spot).

Anyway, happy presidents day weekend guys/gal's. I am gonna go wash my car :shades:

[Deleted User] · February 2013

What? No one is condemning the 5 cyl WV Passat. It's a good car. Very good.

The Passat SE and the Optima EX cost near as makes no difference $24,000.

I can tell you from experience that VW parts are VERY expensive. The 100,000 mile warranty on my Optima is very comforting, almost as much as the soulful growl of my dual exhaust. To each his own.

[Deleted User] · February 2013

The Optima LX/EX does not have a spare tire, but it DOES however have a space for one. The SX has a spare. In place of a spare the EX has a compressor and a fancy bottle of tire sealer. I was not pleased.

A 17" generic 5-lug donut is $75.

An OEM 2012 Optima donut is $175.

A cheap 17" tire is about $150.

So, lack of a spare is not really a deal killer. IMO of course.

igozoomzoom · February 2013

I have actually had some hands-on experience with several of the newest mid-sizers. I drove a new Mazda6 Grand Touring all day while I was having my CX-9 serviced one day last week. My brother-in-law is the body shop manager at a Honda dealer and he brought home a 2013 Accord Sport CVT for me to drive for a weekend. My best-friend has a 2013 Fusion SE 1.6 EcoBoost as his company car. I also had a 2012 Optima LX as a rental car for 10-days in Los Angeles last August.

So heres my take-

Best style: Mazda6, hands down! The Fusion comes in 2nd and the Accord and Optima are a distant tie for 3rd.

Best mpg:

Best acceleration: 4-cylinder Accord is slightly faster than the Mazda6, but the Mazda6 feels faster with its 6-speed AT vs. the Accords CVT

Best reliability & quality: the new Mazda6 has very impressive interior materials and assembly quality, I think it will also prove to be very reliable; Accord is almost a sure-thing

Best safety: According to NHTSA tests, the Optima is crash test superstar; the Accord only rated 4/5 for frontal impact, Fusion 4/5 on Side Impact and Rollover and Altima got 4/5 on Rollover; the 2014 Mazda6 hasnt been tested yet

Most bang for the buck: The Accord is definitely the winner, especially the high-content and high-value Sport trim level

Best visibility: the Mazda6s technology makes it the winner, thanks to the Blind Spot Monitoring System and Rear Cross Traffic Alert in addition to the Rear View Camera.

Best dealers: Finding a great dealer is hit-or-miss with most brands (Honda, Ford); Unfortunately, Kia and Nissan dealers (at least in the South) generally suck

Best resale value: Accord and Mazda6 (Honda resale value is legendary; if the new Mazda6 follows in the footsteps of the Mazda3 and CX-9, it will be right up there with the Accord.

Lowest maintenance costs: Optimas long warranty wins this one; but the Fusion will be in the shop so frequently for recalls that it may seem like the cheapest

Best handling: Zoom-zoom- the Mazda6 leads the pack

Best braking: Fusion and Mazda6 have shortest stopping distance, almost identical to one another; Accord is a very close 3rd place

Best paint colors: Fusion and Accord have the most colors to choose from and most of them are attractive; Mazda6 has the fewest choices (six) but at least of a few of them are stunners (Soul Red, Blue Reflex)

Best seats: Mazda6 seats would feel at home in a Volvo

Most interior room: Accord, Altima, Optima and Fusion all have 102-103 cubic feet of interior space, but the Optima and Altima come up short on rear leg room by several inches; Mazda6 is slightly smaller than the rest (99.7 cubic feet) but it feels just as roomy.

Biggest trunk: again, the four listed above range from 15.4 to 16.0 cubic feet, so theyre all the same, but Fusion wins with the 16.0 if you live-and-die by numbers; Mazda6 is slightly smaller at 14.8 but shape and design make every inch useful.

Further opinions and comments on specific models-

Accord- as the former owner of three Accords, I was very disappointed by the 2008-2012 model- I hated it! The 2013 looks, feels and sounds like a Honda should.

Mazda6- I am a big fan of the 2014 Mazda6- it is at or near the top in most categories and it looks amazing; it will never sell in the same volume as Accord or Camry, but should easily double the sales of the outgoing model.

Fusion- a pretty face will only go so far; my best friend upgraded his company car from a 2012 Fusion SEL 2.5L to a 2013 Fusion SE 1.6 EcoBoost four months ago. It has been subject to three recalls and two warranty repairs and it is currently at the dealer for a third warranty issue! When it isnt in the shop, it is slower than his previous 2.5L and gets 4-5mpg less overall. The MyFordTouch interface is cumbersome, counter-intuitive and inherently flawed (Fords equivalent to Windows Vista?). He is currently driving a rental Corolla and told me he wishes could just keep it and never see the Fusion again! Thats about as sad as it gets..

benjaminh · February 2013

Very good reviews! Thanks for sharing your excellent points here.

The Mazda6 does seem impressive.

I personally slightly prefer made in USA to Mexico (Fusion) or Japan (Mazda6).

I'm not sure how you arrived at the conclusion that the Mazda6 has the best visibility. Can you explain that? The reviews I've seen give the Accord the best visibility both for its thin rear pillars made of ultra-high grade steel, as well as for its side camera. The visibility cameras are optional on both the Honda and the Mazda, and so I guess to me what's more important is the standard of visibility on even the base model.

The Honda Accord Coupe actually got a perfect score from the NHTSA:

http://www.safercar.gov/Vehicle+Shoppers/5-Star+Safety+Ratings/2011-Newer+Vehicl- - - es/Vehicle-Detail?vehicleId=7522

The Accord sedan got perfect on everything except for one 4/5, as you said. 5 stars overall. Can't figure that out one....? But the Accord is still the tops in the IIHS test, joined only by the Acura TL and Volvo.

benjaminh · February 2013

Good points!

And you got that I meant the glove box thing a bit as a joke. But I disagree with you a bit here:

"I got a chuckle out of the best glove box light question. Regardless of how much so-called content Honda may have re-inserted back into the car, I still consider this penny-pinching tactic, a glaring omission. In my mind that type of cost-cutting makes me wonder where else Honda has crunched such ridiculousness. Just think of the possibilities..."If we chop 3/8" of length off every wire on every harness we can save x $ on our production. No matter that harnesses pulled and stressed to their limit..for the few failures we may have to wty, we'll clean up on this move in the end. Plus, just think of the quick go-to fixes our service shops can do well outta wty, since we'll already have a shortcut to the problem areas".

Honda has taken a few things out (like the glove box light, ski pass through, and double wishbone front suspension), but what they've added is much more and more important. And I feel 100% confident that all that remains is top quality in the Honda Accord. Can't tell if you were joking, but they aren't going to skimp on the wiring in the car....

The Accord's quality and ability to last a long time is quite well known in the auto world, and Honda wouldn't mess with that. Normally a "halo car" is a rare model (like a Corvette or S2000) that brings prestige to the brand even if they don't sell that many of them. I read somewhere that some of Honda's engineers and execs think of the Accord as a "halo car." Even though it's a mainstream sedan, with this generation they pulled out all the stops to make it something special too. But even Honda has to deal with economics and dollars and cents, and so while they were adding the equivalent of thousands of dollars of stuff to the base model, they simply had to save a few hundred bucks here and there too.

The base Accord LX still adds a huge amount of stuff compared to the last generation of Accord LX. In the last generation you got a VTEC engine in the LX, but it was a lower level, less sophisticated, and less powerful engine than you got on the EX and above. Now even the LX gets the same advanced and now directed injected VTEC as is found in the EX. Some might say no big deal, but it is a big deal.

To state the obvious, the engine is the most expensive part of the car by far, and some brands cheap out when it comes to the engine of the base model. In particular, the new Ford Fusion has a thrashy, unpleasant, and unsophisticated 2.5L 4 cylinder engine in the base model (I had it on a rental car. Yuck). You have to buy yourself with options the better 1.6 ecotec. And the Passat has an old tech, not very powerful, and not very efficient 5 cylinder in its base model car.

benjaminh · February 2013

Don't have a smart phone myself, but Honda seems to be the first to integrate a Siri "eyes free" mode into a midsize mainstream car:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/honda-introducing-dealer-installed-siri-eyes-free-i- ntegration-on-2013-accord-acura-ilx-and-rdx/

As one person said, however, you might say to Siri...

"Where's Joe's Saloon?"

Siri might answer: "Yes, I will drive you into the Lagoon!"

lol!

benjaminh · February 2013

The list in alphabetical order: Audi A6, BMW 3 series, Ford Focus, Ford Mustang, Honda Accord, Honda Fit, Mazda MX-5 Miata, Porsche Boxter, Scion FR-S, VW Golf/GTI....

Here's the 1 minute video C & D made for the Accord:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXcdtdCy3Mo

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2013-10best-cars-feature-2013-honda-accord-- page-6

Car and Driver 2013 10 Best list:

"HONDA ACCORD
The family sedan, elevated.
Let us get this straight: The new Accord has ditched its control-arm front suspension for struts; a CVT has displaced its four-cylinder's step-gear automatic; and gasoline direct injection is new this yearbut only on the fournine years after Audi first offered it in the U.S. So why is this car back on this list for a record 27th time? It's not because the Accord is a looker. What it has is inner beauty: Luxury-car big inside and yet smaller outside than before, this ninth-gen version fully delivers on Honda's "man-maximum, machine-minimum" philosophy. The Accord's greatness has always derived from its ability to disappear under its driver, but this new car verges on the etherealit is so easy to see out of, so easy to point into a corner, so elegant and light and forgiving in its responses that one big fluid loop develops between man and machine. This is true whether you're talking about the base four-cylinder sedan or the six-cylinder coupe with its clockwork manual. Its playful and graceful spirit makes taking grandma to the doctor and the kids to soccer and the boss to lunch no chore. You only think it's a driving appliance until you drive it. Then you understand."

benjaminh · February 2013

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2013-ford-fusion-se-ecoboost-vs-2013-honda-a- - - - ccord-ex-2013-nissan-altima-25-sv-2012-volkswagen-passat-25-se-comparison-test-c- - - - ar-and-driver2013-ford-fusion-se-ecoboost-vs-2013-honda-accord-ex-2013-nissan-al- - - - tima-25-sv-2012-volkswagen-passat-25-se.pdf

Best braking 70-0: Fusion 175 ft, Accord 184 ft, Altima 185 ft, Passat 185 ft

Acceleration 0-60: Altima 7.6 seconds, Accord 7.7, Fusion 1.6 8.3, Passat 8.8

Acceleration 0-100: Accord 19.8, Altima 20.5, Passat 23.9, Fusion 24.9

Top Speed (all are limited by their internal computers): Accord 127 mph, Fusion 122 mph, Altima 119, Passat 114

It's ridiculous that I think all of these cars have speedometers that go to 160. That's just silly. 140 is plenty as they will never get there....

Sound level 70 mph: Fusion 67 dBA, Accord 68 dBA, Altima 69 dBA, Passat 69 dBA

Roadholding: Fusion .87g, Accord .87g, Passat .84g, Altima .84g

benjaminh · February 2013

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.9 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 21.2 sec

That's slightly faster than a BMW 328i:

"With less weight to haul around3552 pounds versus 3607 for the last V-6 sedan [2012] we testedour Touring example sprinted to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and tripped the quarter-mile lights in 14.1 seconds at 101 mph. Those figures put it solidly ahead of all its competitors and into sports-sedan territory; the Accord ties our long-term, six-speed-manual BMW 328i to 60 and trumps that car in the quarter by 0.2 second and 1 mph."

bb49 · February 2013

I'd love to see this test done including the Mazda 6. Interestingly, the "family" picked the Optima. I agree wholeheartedly with the family. If I had rated the cars in this test, I would have rated the Optima 1st, the Fusion second. If the Mazda 6 was included in this test, I'm not sure where I would place it other than it would be in the top three of this group consisting of the Optima, Fusion and Mazda 6 and that the Accord would be placed in fifth place as I would put the Sonata slightly ahead of the Accord as the more I look at the Accord's derivative, generic and utterly forgettable styling I become increasingly disappointed that Honda had a chance to make stunningly attractive Accord that could have been competitive styling wise with the Fusion, Optima, Mazda 6 and instead decided to "play it safe" and produce a bland, dated design that leaves me completely cold.

bb49 · February 2013

I own a 2001 Odyssey and have had to replace the transmission 3 times already. It is well documented that Honda designed transmissions prone to failure in my Odyssey and the 5 speed automatic that replaced it. Since the Accord's CVT is a new design for Honda, I would wait a few years to see if Honda has worked out any potential "bugs" in it given the fact that Honda does not have the best reputation with transmissions.

benjaminh · February 2013

The style of the Optima may excite you, but it does come at a cost. There's a whole thread in the Optima Forums .com site about the blind spots bc of the huge rear pillars, "ghost cars" coming out of nowhere since you can't see them, adjusting your mirrors perfectly to minimize problems, etc. Here's one post from an Optima owner:

"Today was the last straw regarding "ghost cars" appearing out of nowhere. I am aware that it is due to the wide C-pillars and the steeply raked rear window design, which makes the trunk taller, hiding even large cars. It is the price I pay for style I guess. However:

It is so bad that I am getting paranoid. I must have looked three times before changing lanes this morning, but a Civic was there. This is the third time it has happened this month...."

http://www.optimaforums.com/forum/5-optima-general-discussion/4964-blind-spot-da- - - - - - - nger.html

The Accord V-6 also blows the Optima Turbo out of the water when it comes to acceleration. Does anyone need to go that fast? Probably not. But as Hans Solo once said about the Millenium Falcon, "She may not look like much, but shes got it where it counts kid.

The Optima is a great carquality, style, value, made in usa, etc. But like other cars it's not perfect. The Honda Accord has its issues too. Some owners are reporting some software glitches sometimes with their electronics, although Honda has promised a fix soon. And the style of the Accord, which seems clean and functional to me, is dull to you and some other folks too.

otis12 · February 2013

I see the Optima turbo requires an oil change every 3500 miles, per the owners manual. Not a super expensive cost but some of the competitors go for 10,000 miles before a required oil change with regular (not synthetic) oil.

akirby · February 2013

I rented an Optima over Christmas and I just bought a 2013 Fusion. The Fusion has better materials, better controls and FAR better seats. I drove 3 hours in mine and it felt like I had been sitting in my recliner for a few minutes. 1 hour in the Optima and my legs and back were killing me.

I'd put the Optima ahead of most of the others but not the Fusion or the Accord.

[Deleted User] · February 2013

Ben, You are right about the Optima blind spot. 100%. "Ghost cars" appearing out of nowhere has happened to me at least 5 times. I will look, look again. and look a third time while SLOWLY merging and BAM!!...a car will be there. It's maddening. I guess those little round mirrors are in my future. Really, really near future.

Anyone considering purchasing a 11-13 Optima, (and this info is coming from an owner), I would check out the Accord and it's improved sight lines if a family sedan is what you are after. The problem with the Accord is that with all of the options that I have in my car, a comparable Accord is close to $30,000. $6k more, and 40k less warranty.
Also, on the performance issue: 2013 Accord V6 0-60 is 6.1.
2012 Kia Optima Turbo 6.3.

When my car is paid for, based on my current mileage, I will still have 40 thousand miles under full warranty!. (I did pay $900 to extend the basic 100k powertrain warranty to full bumper-to-bumper warranty).

Anyway, to me, the contest is between the Accord, Mazda-6, Altima, Optima, Fusion.
The Altima looks great from the side and the back, but the front end looks like it was stung by bees. It's all "puffy". A bit of a re-style in the front would be a slam dunk for Nissan.

[Deleted User] · February 2013

Hey Kirby. The Optima you rented was an LX. It's interior materials are cheap compared to any other trim level. The EX has leather in all the door pockets and dark ebony wood everywhere you touch. The steering wheel and shifter are leather as well. Outside, the only diff is 16" rims instead of 17" with better tires.

If my only exposure to the Optima was an LX rental, I would feel the same way . How are the sight lines on your Fusion? Also, how is the 1.6T EcoBoost in real world acceleration and passing? Curious.

[Deleted User] · February 2013

Oh, Benjamin, the article you quoted was written by me on Optima forums. I get around. LOL.

akirby · February 2013

I still think the Fusion SE is nicer on the inside than the Optima LX even though mine is a Titanium 2.0L EB.

I'm used to the Fusion's higher trunk so I don't have any issues. The 2.0L EB has plenty of power - more than my old 3.0L - and is returning 2-3 mpg better fuel economy in the winter before it's broken in. I'm very happy.

benjaminh · February 2013

funny!!++

benjaminh · February 2013

Well C & D got an Accord to go 0-60 in....

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.6 sec

And so if that's true, it did blow the Optima Turbo's 6.3 out of the water.

But was it a weird test? An error? Even they seemed amazed, and noted that the 2013 Accord V-6 was a shade faster than a brand new BMW 328i with a manual....!

backy · February 2013

Yep, that's the most important thing in a mid-sized family sedan... being able to go 0-60 in 5.6 seconds. :P

Remember what a great car the Accord from 25 years ago was... especially the Coupe? Everyone wanted one of those babies back then. How much horsepower did it have? Base models had 98! And the top-end LX-i had 122. Somehow we managed.

gogophers1 · February 2013

A lot of good insights here, igo. Thank you.

I'm in the market for a new midsizer right now and the three finalists for me are the Mazda 6, Honda Accord and Ford Fusion. Each has its pluses and minuses... I would've also considered the Altima, but since "sporty" Nissan decided to nix the manual transmission option, I responded, in turn, by crossing them off my shopping list. And therein lies the rub. Within the last 5 years, the entire midsize class has become enemy territory for manual tranny drivers to shop in. :mad:

I had a chance to drive a 2014 Mazda 6 with a stick (my understanding is it's currently the only manual transmission 6 in the entire state of Minnesota) last week. All around it was a great ride. Not only is it stunning to look at (right on about Blue Reflex and Soul Red - Mazda presently has 2 of the nicest exterior colors in the midsize class), but the interior is excellent. My goodness, has anyone seen a new 6 with the 2-tone sand/black interior? It's absolutely gorgeous. And all the controls in the 6 are solid and easy to use. I felt immediately at home in the car. It seems like a car that would wear well - no gimmicks; just a solid driver's car that seemed day-to-day livable. That said, why no coolant temp gauge, Mazda? Oh well.

Contrast that with the Ford. Unfortunately, the 2013 Fusion I drove was a 6 speed slushbox (the closest manual was in Kansas City, MO - about 400 miles from Minneapolis) so it wasn't a dollars for dollars comparison, but it gave me some good takeaways regardless.

While I really like the looks of the Fusion too, Ford didn't seem to sweat all the details. First off, the 1.6 is freakin' LOUD. Maybe it's just that I had to have my foot to the floor in the thing the whole time to keep it moving in traffic, I don't know. But in all the reviews I've read, I never recall hearing a comment about engine noise. Anyone else notice this? Something tells me I'd be way off the mark with my MPGs too if I bought one of these tiny turbo Fords...

Also, while the non-MFT Fusion models have less fussy controls than the uplevel versions, the center stack is still a disaster: a mess of buttons that must be studied before a station can be changed; the AC vent output selected. Furthermore, the miniscule 4 inch radio display has to compete with a bunch of superfluous information (the instrument binnacle already has a tiny outside temp display - so why the redundant, tiny read-out in the stack?). What was Ford thinking? :confuse: They build a very enjoyable [albeit school bus loud] driver's car (the Fusion's steering was super quick and the suspension/ride combo is about as good as it gets) and then throw in a bunch of ill-thought controls that constantly force you to take your eyes off the road. And seriously, whoever engineered that Futurama-style turn signal stalk needs to be forced into exile. It's like Ford tried to one-up VW with their lane change feature but failed miserably in its execution. Well, as these things start working their way into rental fleets and garages of the elderly, expect to see a lot of Fusions on the road with their turn signals engaged at all the wrong times (or perhaps never at all).

As far as the Accord, I've yet to drive one (it's next on the list) but I have high hopes. I must prematurely congratulate Honda though for designing a modern sedan that appears to have excellent visibility without looking like it was hit with the same ugly stick that really did a number on Toyota's Yaris.

So why consider a Fusion over a 6? If I was shopping for a slushbox, it would seem like the 6 would be a no-brainer. Unfortunately, in Mazda's infinite wisdom, the 6 manual is available with absolutely zero factory installed options - no sunroof, no SiriusXM, no you-name-it. Granted, it already comes fairly well equipped (including dual exhaust), but I've seen Chevy Aveos with factory sunroofs (why, I don't know - but they exist). Mazda must think those who enjoy rowing their own gears hate sunshine and music.

The Ford manual, on the other hand, can be equipped with a number of a la carte options (kudos, Ford) including back-up sensors and a sunroof. Satellite radio is standard on the SE trim (as is Ford's still clever - for those of us who like to leave the keys in the car when heading into the theme park or out to the beach - touch pad entry). Too bad you're forced to order the Fusion stick shift sight unseen (or drive across the country for a test drive) if you're in the market for one. Apparently, no Ford dealers order manuals for their own inventory anymore.

All three cars are attractive in my eyes (w/top prize going to the 6). Mazda has the best color options in and out (although I do like Ford's Ginger Ale/Dune combo); Honda gives you various shades of mud as well as white and red (so long as you stick to the automatic - no pun intended). And I think it's safe to say that the Ford will have the worst resale (as it will very likely be in the shop most often) with the Honda being excellent and Mazda falling somewhere in between.

Decisions, decisions...

scwmcan · February 2013

Guess if you want a Mazda6 with a manual and all the extras you need to see if you can import one from up here ( Canada). All models come with a manual as standard here. I guess they feel they are more likely to sell them that way here. It is a shame that you can't get them this way in the states.

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