Midsize Sedans 2.0

puppybone69 · March 2013

The actual top speed for the 2013 Fusion 2.0 is estimated to be around 151mph, but it's electronically limited to 120mph, so the actual top speed is very close to the 160mph top speed shown on the speedometer, if you tune it to eliminate the speed limiter. See here: http://www.automobile-catalog.com/car/2013/1596770/ford_fusion_2_0l_ecoboost.htm- l

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Oh yeah, I totally agree. These cars are very aerodynamic and efficient, and have more gears than we could've imagined. I was just quoting the specs, not capability. Almost all of the reviews I have read govern the cars based on the tire specs. Some cars just run out of steam, others are governed.

I don't think my car has a prayer, with only 200hp, of topping 130. I bet you are right on the money on the swoopy new Fusion 2.0 at 150mph. I read that it has a. 27 drag co-efficient. Only super-cars used to have that kind of aerodynamics. Plus of course it has 40 more HP, and a ton more torque.

ivan_99 · March 2013

Only super-cars used to have that kind of aerodynamics.

Actually I think it's the opposite...usually the super cars have a very bad drag co-efficient. The only one I remember was the Bugatti...at about .40.

I think it's the huge tires and down force which give a bad co-efficient...still has enough power to get the job done

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Yes!, The Veyron has active aerodynamics depending on the driving situation. The wing pops up at certain speeds and at different angles, plus it acts as an air-brake during deceleration. What I am attempting to say is just how much of a technologically advanced car we can get for 20 to 30 grand.

Here is an except from wiki answers on drag: "The average modern automobile achieves a drag coefficient of between 0.30 and 0.35. SUVs, with their typically boxy shapes, typically achieve a Cd of 0.350.45. The drag coefficient of a vehicle is impacted by the shape of body of the vehicle. Various other characteristics impact the coefficient of drag as well, and are taken into account in these examples. Some sports cars have a surprisingly high value for a drag coefficient, but this is to compensate for the amount of lift the vehicle generates, while others use aerodynamics to their advantage to gain speed and have much lower coefficients of drag".

dudleyr · March 2013

Total drag is coefficient x frontal area. Sports cars tend to have small frontal areas.

benjaminh · March 2013

On a recent trip, we had a 2013 Camry as a rental. It was a good car, but it definitely was not quite as good as our new Accord, imho.

The engine and transmission combo in the Camry is very good, however, providing nice power and good economy. That's probably where the Camry is closest to the Accord, but the Accord still has the edge, I think, in engine sound, mpg, and probably acceleration as well.

The interior of the Camry seems like a mish-mash of parts that don't always mesh well together or look integrated. The sewn vinyl layer on the top of the dashboard is more odd than lux looking. And hard plastic parts found elsewhere in the dash (particularly the part near the legs of the driver and front passenger) seem cheap.

There are some important standard features on the Accord that the Camry doesn't have, like dual zone climate control, back up camera, and perhaps something else I can't think of right now.

The styling of the Camry is perhaps the weakest in the midsize class, although I know that's very subjective.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Yeah, on the new Camry, many reviews have said that the interior was put together by committee, and that the "aluminum" trim is squishy and can be dented by a fingernail. Also, You are also not the only one who thought the vinyl layer on top of the dash was odd.

backy · March 2013

C/D reviews the base Mazda6 in their May issue. It's nice to see a review on a base model for once, instead of loaded $30k sedans. Since it has a stick, it's not a car a lot of people will put into their garages. But the C/D folks noted that it's a sedan that would fit well alongside a sports car in those garages.

A little bigger than what I need for my next car, otherwise I'd seriously consider adding it to my garage. Although there's no sports car in it right now.

[Deleted User] · March 2013

Cool. I'd better go check the mail for my May C/D issue. I drove the 6i briefly, and I liked it. Unfortunately, there was nowhere nearby to drive it in a sporting manner.

savetheland · March 2013

I do not know if it was mentioned here but new 2013 Ford Fusion still uses 6 speed transmission 6F35 at least with 2.0T. This transmission was nothing but nightmare since it was first used in 2010 - 2012 Fusion and Escape. As recently as end of 2012 none of reported problems were fixed. I am not sure if they fixed issues in 2013 but I have doubts. It may be design issue which Ford dealerships cannot fix. According the reports issues start right away in brand new cars. CR confirms it by giving 2010 Fusion solid black dot in major and minor transmission problems area.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

My neighbor has a 2010 w/the 6speed auto and it was replaced at 52k. Something about a solenoid. Took three weeks for the dealer to get it fixed.

Is there a TSB or recall?

[Deleted User] · April 2013

Here is a link to my pics:

http://cski12894.imgur.com/all/

tundradweller1 · April 2013

When we were shopping for a new car in 2011 we completely wrote off the Fusion due to the extensively reported transmission issues.
Ford's reluctance to correct the fault kept me away from the brand to this day.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

It is a pain in the A** to just post a picture here. Not fun.

try this link: http://cski12894.imgur.com/

and this one: http://imgur.com/a/gOrWj#0

explorerx4 · April 2013

That's a pretty inaccurate post, other than the Fusion using a 6 speed automatic transmission.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

The trans problems include harsh shifting from 2 to 3, and "flares" which have other symptoms. :sick:

Here is a link to the Fusion forums thread where topic is discussed in detail.

http://www.fordfusionforum.com/topic/6577-2012-6f35-transmission-problems-new-vi- deo/page-7

puppybone69 · April 2013

The Ford Fusion sold more than 30,000 units in March, and more than 80,000 units in the first quarter of this year, breaking both its all time monthly sales records and its all time quarterly sales records for the first time in Fusion history, putting it in 3rd place behind the Toyota Camry and the Honda Accord, see the full article here:

http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=37868

benjaminh · April 2013

Yeah, it's a sizzling race in the midsize market. I think the Fusion might surprise on the upside and end up in the top 3 by the end of the calendar year. Take a look at these numbers from TSX at www.vtec.net:

Altima 37,763 -8%
Camry 37,663 -8.2%
Accord 36,504 +41.4%; PHEV 26
Fusion 30,284 +6%
Malibu 18,539 -22.4%
Sonata 18,031
200 16,593 +11%
Optima 14,366
Avenger 12,439 +33%
Passat 9,521 -5.1%
6 6,102 -22.3%
Legacy 4,400 -18.3%

benjaminh · April 2013

The midsize cars that are slumping in March include the Malibu, down c.22% from March of last year. The Sonata is also down 22%.

VW has the capacity to make c. 170,000 Passats at their factory in TN, but right now it looks like they'll be closer to 120,000 or so. The VW has the least impressive standard engine out of all of the midsize cars.

benjaminh · April 2013

Sales of most 2013 midsize cars began around Sept. of 2012, and most of the model year will be sold out by Sept. of 2013.

In other words, we are about halfway through the model year. It's possible to make some rough guesses as to where things are going to end up for the model year. Here are my guesses:

Camry: c. 450,000 (probably the worst midsize car of the top sellers, but Toyota will give them away to stay #1)
Accord: c. 400,000
Altima: c. 400,000
Fusion: c. 400,000

As you can see, I'm guessing there might be a roughly 3-way tie for second place. The competition is going to be brutal, with great deals on good cars making the customer King (and Queen).

Big drop after the top 4....My guesses

Sonata: c. 220,000 (Sonata is slumping, needs an update asap)
Malibu: c. 200,000 (ditto)
200: c. 200,000 (big move up)
Optima: c. 170,000 (holding steady)
Passat: c.140,000 (I think incentives + diesels + V6s will keep them in the game)

benjaminh · April 2013

I thought Ford was already building the Fusion at Flat Rock, MI, but that won't happen until this Fall, according this this article. And so my guess above was clearly wrong. I don't think Ford will be able to make and sell more than c. 300,000 Fusions for model year 2013. During model year 2014, however, Ford should be able to make 450,000if there's demand for that many....

http://wardsauto.com/auto-makers/ford-march-sales-9-capacity-tight-fusion

Ford turned in strong March results, with deliveries up 9.0% on a daily selling rate basis to 231,127 vehicles, volume not seen since May 2007.

Several new Ford models posted gains, with the Fusion midsize sedan up 9.9% and the Escape cross/utility vehicle rising 32.3%.

The 30,284 Fusion deliveries in March mark the first time the car has eclipsed the 30,000 mark in monthly sales since its introduction in 2005, but Ford officials hint that volume may not be sustainable due to capacity constraints.

Weve seen record customer sales and strong demand in California and Florida, Ken Czubay, vice president-U.S. marketing, sales and service, says of markets where the auto maker has struggled in the past. That will begin to place some constraints in supply starting in coming months.

Ford currently builds the Fusion at its Hermosillo, Mexico, plant alongside the Lincoln MKZ midsize sedan. Plans call for additional capacity to be added at the Flat Rock, MI, facility this fall.

Czubay, in a conference call today with media and analysts to discuss March sales results, does not disclose current Fusion inventory levels, saying only that levels wont go critically low, but days supply will drop lower than generally accepted.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

It burns my a** that the Camry stays the sales king. I know they have a loyal following. Their customers feel that they don't break down, and are a good value. Customer PERCEPTION is everything, (and so is a $179 lease payment).

I can understand the lease, and the need to feel "safe" with a car decision,
but why do people buy cars with hubcaps and greyhound bus quality interior for $26,000??? I just don't get it. There is so much out there to choose from before laying down my head at the slaughter with Mr. Toyoda.

Also, I have noticed that nobody posting here is a Sonata fan. I agree with the need of a refresh, post haste, if Hyundai wants to stay at (or near) the top.

benjaminh · April 2013

http://wardsauto.com/vehicles-amp-technology/dreamy-technology-makes-new-honda-4- -cyl-stand-out

tundradweller1 · April 2013

I find it hysterical that people justify their car purchases by touting sales numbers.
Lemmings pitch themselves off cliffs because all the other Lemmings are doing the same. :surprise:

puppybone69 · April 2013

So the Fusion dropped back down to #4? I thought it was still at #3! Oh well, it's great that they're selling alot of them, but personally I'd be happier if they stopped selling them! I'm still enjoying my newfound celebrity status, and most people thinking that I'm driving a new Jaguar XF! Now that the new Jaguar XFRS has been revealed, I find it quite hilarious that the only major visible difference between that car and my Fusion is an Aston Martin grille and a different spoiler, otherwise they're nearly identical and they look like they're fraternal twins!

backy · April 2013

Also, I have noticed that nobody posting here is a Sonata fan.

I have a 2013 Sonata (my wife's car)... if that counts.

I've posted here before that I realize the Sonata is not at the top of the heap anymore, as it's one of the oldest mid-sized designs now, but for a $47 a month, nothing out of pocket lease (after trading in a beat-up 2007 Sonata), hard to beat it. I'd take it any day over the Camry, and although the latest designs have some advantages over the Sonata, it has a nice combination of style, features, comfort, power, and fuel economy that make it a very enjoyable ride.

Anyway, the Sonata is scheduled for a refresh for 2014. We'll see what Hyundai comes up with.

backy · April 2013

Good point. Perhaps the top car in the class right now, the Mazda6, has dismal sales numbers. And the Legacy is a very nice car, and doesn't sell very well.

benjaminh · April 2013

Tundra: That was not the point at all! Lmao. We were making fun of and critiquing the car that wonthe Camry.

But here's what the editor of Automobile Magazine said in summarizing their comparison test of midsize cars:

"....We have driven the new 2013 Honda Accord, and it is magnificent. Two weeks ago, most of the staff abandoned the office for a unique, bracketed, head-to-head test of eight mid-size cars, arguably the finest group of family sedans ever on the market at one time. Go to automobilemag.com or download our May iPad issue to read the report. I will tell you one thing: the 2013 Honda Accord blew everyone away. It's been a long time coming."

Kirstie_H · April 2013

Just taking a wild guess here, but I suspect some of the Mazda6 numbers could be due to them releasing the 2014 MY very early. Maybe lots of shoppers holding off buying the 2013 and waiting for the 2014 to become widely available? Dunno.

backy · April 2013

Probably. But the Mazda6 has never sold in big numbers compared to most competitors, despite being a very competitive car. It certainly will never match the sales numbers of the likes of the Camry, Accord, Altima, and Fusion, since Mazda can't ship enough cars over here even if they could sell them.

m6user · April 2013

Mazda can't ship enough cars over here even if they could sell them.

Yeah, they just don't have the capacity to be in the top sales tier. That was also true when they weren't made in Japan but in Flat Rock, Mi. They are a smaller company, smaller advertising budget, fewer dealers and always marketed to a somewhat smaller segment looking for a sporty drive in a family hauler body. I always chuckle when people say "they will never sell as many 6's as Camry, Accord or Altima". Really??? It's kind of like Mcdonalds and Wendys. Wendy's will concievably never sell as many burgers for much the same reasons I've mentioned but it doesn't mean they can't make a profit or that their burgers are inferior.

explorerx4 · April 2013

The 6F35 was first used in 2009 in the Escape/?mariner/Tribute.
I thought it was earlier, but I guess that was a different trans.
We have a 2009 Escape, which I knew has that trans.

explorerx4 · April 2013

I kind of feel like because of the cheap 2 year lease deals, reliability is a tougher call.
Not too much usually goes wrong in 20-30k miles, and after that the next buyer doesn't really know what the car's past history is.

[Deleted User] · April 2013

I found out that the Optima's sold in Canada are made in Korea, not in the USA. Why? Why would Kia ship cars 6500 miles from Korea instead of 1300 miles from the US? High export tariffs/taxes?

On Ford's alleged "big problem" with it's 6F35 6 speed automatic...I never even heard of it until I saw a post here. I looked it up on the Fusion forums and was able to confirm there were problems with Fusions and Escapes since late 2009, but I can't find info on what percentage of cars are actually affected.

On the Mazda 6, I agree with the host here that it is a 2014 model and can't compete yet in sufficient numbers with the big players in this segment. I CAN say this. I see a WHOLE LOT of Mazda 3's out there, and if the 6 is similarly successful, then they will be a major player indeed.

plekto · April 2013

Canadian regulations are different enough from the U.S. regulations in terms of little worthless junk like lights (same but not govt approved) and gauges (KM vs U.S.) and bumpers and all of that that it takes too long to re-tool and have a second assembly process for Canadian cars. The Canadian cars are hardly any different from the cars that they sell to Europe and the rest of the world, so they have U.S. plants essentially making U.S. versions.

bhmr59 · April 2013

Your car looks great. Continued good luck with it.

scwmcan · April 2013

I think it may also have to do with the fact that the factory can only turn out enough for the US market, Canadian regs aren't that different anymore BTW, and if they were made in the US ( don't know if they need a certain North American content for this though) they would be part of the auto pact ( and free trade agreement) and not have duty, of course I think we have some sort of free trade agreement with Korea too so who knows? Our current government is very big on having free trade agreements with everyone, so that all our labour can be shipped offshore ( just like the states were trying to do).

[Deleted User] · April 2013

I understand, but my car (and most others) can switch to metric w/a push of a button, and is also available with DRL's.

A new regulation in Quebec requires car owners to outfit their cars with winter/snow tires that have a special symbol stamped on the sidewall that it meets certain winter weather performance standards. So basically the Canadian government requires a substantial investment by its citizens for a set of snow tires. Most would have them mounted on separate set of rims in order for use to be practical.

This is in response to the amount of needless deaths /injuries, and property damage which costs millions. FYI.

savetheland · April 2013

Given Honda's trouble with AT in the past I suspected that there will be issues with new CVT. And sure enough there are. From I what I read new Accord does not look like better choice than Fusion from reliability point of view and I have yet to see reported problems with 2013 Fusion which has an advantage of using transmission which is in production 4 years already. I suspect that new Mazda6 may also have troublesome transmission and engine given it is brand new vehicle. Saying that choosing car on predicted (by CR) reliability alone may not work well if it was redesigned and have new components.

It is interesting that nobody mentions Passat. I remember not so long ago people were dying to get their hands on Passat. Not anymore?

backy · April 2013

SNB.

(Shiny New Ball syndrome)

[Deleted User] · April 2013

LOL. I heard that all CVT's were made from unsold treadmills. :shades:

[Deleted User] · April 2013

Thanks man. Turtle Wax quick wax and Armor All tire foam work wonders after a good weekly hand wash.

ivan_99 · April 2013

heh...nice :P

savetheland · April 2013

On NTSA site I found 10 complaints regarding 2013 Accord (5 about transmission/powertrain and 5 about engine) vs 2 complaints regarding 2013 Ford Fusion ( 1 transmission and 1 engine). Just interesting statistics. I guess people really pissed off go to NTSA website to file a formal complaint. It is also should be safety related. Link is http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov. Mazda6 is too new so I did not look up.

For Fusion transmission alone number of complaint by year:
2009 - 1
2010 - 118
2011 -18
2012 - 10
2013 - 1

You can really see the sharp spike in 2010 when 6F32 was first introduced. It looks like they fixed something (may be valve bore design) in 2011. But still not as trouble free as Aisin TF-80 6-speed and Mazda FNR5 5-speed used in 2009.

dieselone · April 2013

That Ford 6speed is a joint design between Ford and GM. I wonder if the GM vehicles with GM's version also had some issues?

My brother has a 2010 Fusion Sport with the 3.5 v6 and he's not had any trouble with it so far.

puppybone69 · April 2013

No doubt the GM parts are the problem! Why on Earth would Ford ever agree to work with GM on anything anyway? That kinda defeats the whole point of Ford vs Chevy, doesn't it?

dieselone · April 2013

No doubt the GM parts are the problem! Why on Earth would Ford ever agree to work with GM on anything anyway? That kinda defeats the whole point of Ford vs Chevy, doesn't it?

LOL. I think back then, Ford and GM were scrambling for updated transmissions and neither was in good financial condition.

tundradweller1 · April 2013

In the rather long, drawn out process of test driving and researching cars it came down to two brands. Honda and Mazda. Test driving the Accord LX, then the Mazda 6 I Touring, the Accord Sport and finally the Mazda I Sport.

Strictly from a over all driving dynamic it was not even close. The Mazda was well composed when driven hard into the corners and sublime while cruising on the Highway. It honestly felt like a BMW in this regard. While the Honda's were transferring every road irregularity and did not feel as stable when pushed to the edge of traction, they also offered less braking feedback.
The auto transmission was much better in the Mazda as was the electronic steering feel.
Ergonomically the lay outs were a tie, the seats are better in the Mazda. Site lines were better in the Honda. Front seats recline almost flat in the Mazda and the 60/40 rear fold downs are much better than the oval opening, single seat section offered in the Honda.
Outward appearance, the Accords look positively pedestrian compared to the Mazda 6, especially while viewing them almost side by side at the auto show.
The overall package offered by the new Mazda 6, especially for the value, is hard to deny.

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa266/tundratom/BestCarPic_zpse0865fa7.jpg

savetheland · April 2013

No, GM does not have problems no matter what Government bailout hater trolls try to tell you - just look for statistics (open CR e.g.). It is not transmission design issue but it is how it is executed. Ford may use different materials or shortcuts. Valve bore e.g. may be designed differently or from less durable materials e.g.

3.5L Fusion does not have 6F35 transmission. It has same Aisin transmission as MKZ (which is problem free). 6F35 does not handle torque that 3.5L produces.

benjaminh · April 2013

Nice Pix! Haven't driven the new 6, but it sure does look good.

Did you buy one? If so, congrats! Great car+++

Midsize Sedans 2.0

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