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Comments
"So exactly how fuel efficient are they? The Mazda6 is officially rated at 26 mpg in the city and 38 mpg on the highway. This bests the Ford Fusion’s 23/36 mpg rating.
But that’s just on paper. In the real world, after a week of testing, the gap widened further. The Mazda6 returned an average of 30.4 mpg of mixed driving while the Fusion could only muster 25.0 mpg, which continues a recent trend of Ford test vehicles lately not living up to their fuel efficiency ratings....
On the road, vehicle dynamics tip slightly in favour of the Mazda6. It feels more tossable in the corners and agility is better than average. At the same time, despite weighing less than the Fusion, the 6’s ride feels more refined. The suspension is set up with a nice balance between sport and comfort. Not only is it one of the more engaging vehicles in the segment, but it features a ride comfort on par with the likes of the Honda Accord and Volkswagen Passat. In fact, only the squishy soft-riding Malibu can beat it in this department.
The Fusion was in tough during this comparison test. Not only is the Mazda6 cheaper to purchase, but also cheaper to fill up at the pumps. Add in a more attractive, easier to operate interior as well as a more rewarding driving experience, and the 6 is the clear winner of this comparison.
That’s no knock on the Ford either as the Mazda may just be the new benchmark for mid-size sedans. Yes, the Mazda6 is just that good."
"Once you see the clown-face, you will always see the clown-face"
http://media.caranddriver.com/images/13q2/514953/2014-mercedes-benz-s400-hybrid-- interior-photo-516412-s-520x318.jpg
This was in July car and driver, and has kind of gone viral in the automotive community.
The MB S class has long been THE innovation front runner, with much of it's hardware trickling down to cars like ours. In a sense, we owe a debt of gratitude to the S class, IMHO. To me, it is the patriarch of the sedan family.
However, I have briefly driven the Mazda, and know it is very well put together. It's just that in the video the Mazda looks more plain. What is the interior called? Quantum Singularity?
Jul. 26, 2013 Christie Schweinsberg | WardsAuto
FARMINGTON, PA – The Toyota Camry continues to hold onto its title of best-selling midsize sedan in the U.S., delivering 207,626 units in the year’s first half, despite falling 2% from year-ago.
While executives are not worried, they are taking notice of the increased competition attracting midsize-sedan buyers.
Bill Fay, general manager-Toyota Div. in the U.S., is not concerned by the Camry's mild decline and the higher-than-usual incentives needed to sell the car.
"We've increased incentives over the last year, but it's not out of line with where the segment is,” Fay tells WardsAuto at a Tundra pickup media event here. “We're still below where the industry is” on incentive spending.
Fay notes the much-lauded, redesigned ’13 Ford Fusion that debuted in third-quarter 2012 is offering higher incentives than the current Camry, which hit the market a year earlier. However, Edmunds.com reports Camry incentives through June averaged the same as the Fusion's: $2,064.
However, the Camry’s first-half spiffs were 254.5% higher than those of its biggest rival, the Honda Accord. The average Accord incentive was $583 in the year's first six months...."
http://wardsauto.com/sales-amp-marketing/toyota-not-worried-about-camry-sales-dr- op-despite-increased-incentives
The only reason the previous Ford Fusions and Escapes were so great is because they were designed by Mazda. Ford and Mazda split, and look at the results of Ford's solo effort. The new fusion and the escape are not that great. Yeah they sell well cause the American public is generally dumb, but that doesn't mean the product is great. Ford should just make full size trucks. Oh, and I haven't even talked about myFord touch yet.
I just don't get how Toyota has this reputation of great, bulletproof cars when for the past 5 years they seem to be behind on everything. Style, technology, interior design, safety, all behind the mark. I think they have become too big for their britches, and have become the GM of Japan, and the Camry is fast becoming Japans Grand AM.
Funny you should say that. I have said the same thing, but I suggested the camry is fast becoming the Taurus. The cheap interiors compounded by the poor crash tests and the "not keeping up with the Joneses" in technology will likely come to hurt Toyota. I am afraid they are becoming the GM of Japan and it's just a matter of time before it hits.
It is in a different class with an older customer base though, and I honestly believe that very few people would shop Impala against a Mazda 6.
The Cadenza (and the Azera) are both built on the Optima/Sonata platform, and with the added weight of the 3.3 V6 and size-altered frame, it has hurt the ride and driving dynamics, causing them to come in dead last in a recent C/D comparo. On a personal note...the Cadenza has an ugly face. Not digging it at all.
My money would be on the Impala....and believe me it takes a lot for me to even consider a GM. The Impala is also available with the 2.4 liter mild hybrid and the 2.5 i-4 from the Malibu (182 HP 172 lb ft and 195 HP 184 lb ft respectively).
The 3.6 is expected to be the sales leader with the hybrid next and the 2.5 left to mostly fleet sales.
Source - MotorTrend
I agree few people will cross-shop the Impala and Mazda6. But we weren't talking cross-shopping. I know I'd never consider an Impala just because it's a bigger car than I need. I'd rather have a mid-sized car, one that can give me 40 mpg highway in real world driving like the Mazda6, or even the Sonata--40.0 mpg on a 150 mile trip yesterday. :-)
Speaking of struggling sales... Hell, I'd rather talk about Camry, too. The spokesman who has to go to the Tundra event must have lost the office lottery. Or they're hazing the new guy.
But best-in-class safety, acceleration (6MT or V-6), visibility, and standard features. Also best-in-class V-6 mpg.
But MPG is a minor, minor thing. You couldn't get me to drive something like the Honda Insight. It's just plain flimsy and tacky inside. And while the Mazda 6 might be a slight bit better mechanically, it feels like cars did a decade ago. Basically like a giant version of the 3, which is such a disappointment of plastic and cheap. Rental car companies might love that, but no amount of cheap leather will fix sad designs like that.
The auto magazines might like the Mazda. But actually drive the Fusion or something like a Passat and it's clear that Mazda needs to step up its game..
Latest from Autoguide:
http://www.autoguide.com/car-comparisons/2013-ford-fusion-vs-2014-mazda6-2611.ht- ml
Here's the YouTube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5neeuak5Aw
New CAFE regs will force Toyota and Honda to do the same in the near future.
I mean, even Buick is featuring a 4 cyl.
Besides, a V6 really drives up the cost since it always forces buyers into other features they may not want.
The non-hybrid 4's available in the Fusion really suck but they have hit a home run with the new Fusion hybrid.
New CAFE regs will force Toyota and Honda to do the same in the near future.
Besides, a V6 really drives up the cost since it always forces buyers into other features they may not want.
I have to disagree. Turbo engines come at a premium, and are only offered in higher-level trim packages. Honda is egregious in offering the V6 in only EX-L trim, but power and fuel economy numbers are very competitive with the turbo motors.
Camry V6: 21/31 268 hp ($5,825 premium over base price)
Accord V6: 21/34 278 hp ($8,390 premium over base price)
Sonata 2.0: 22/34 274 hp ($3,900 premium over base price)
Fusion 2.0: 22/33 240 hp ($4,735 premium over base price)
Malibu 2.0: 21/30 259 hp ($5,415 premium over base price)
So far, it appears in the real world that the larger displacement V6s are returning better economy than the turbocharged four-cylinder engines. Fueleconomy.gov reports as well as independent car-mags are proving this.
You do know the majority of Sonatas sold are normally aspirated I4s don't you?
Their upgraded 2013 Sonata hybrid (with a 6 spd. transmission instead of a droning CVT found on most hybrids) is also selling well.
And that $8400 over base is so not worth the $$$, IMO.
Fuel economy for the V6s will never approach 40 mpg as selected 4 cyls. are already doing.
By 2020 there won't be that many sixes offered by any car makers - note what BMW has been doing - unless the feds back off their mpg standards.
Handwriting is on-the-wall
Just a matter of time.
3 cyl. engines are being explored and already offered in Europe.
Audi will soon offer a diesel hybrid.
EXLV6=30,070
The difference there is only about 2k. That's the cost of the V-6 engine on the Accord then, c.$2000.
But I do realize you have get up to the EXL to be able to get the V-6.
Just checked CR online which listed 30 mpg overall for the I4 and 26 for the V6 in their road tests.
28 2013 Accords V6s on Fuely; highest was 30.5 and the lowest was 21.3.
You do know the majority of Sonatas sold are normally aspirated I4s don't you?
Yes. The majority of these cars are sold with their base engine (Accord 2.4L, Camry 2.5L, Altima 2.5L, etc), not the upper level, but you were discussing the upper level engines.
You were talking V6s, so I brought up the competition - the 2.0L turbos offered by Chevy, Ford, and Hyundai/Kia.
And, keep in mind I HAVE a Hyundai with an automatic, and have road tripped (1500+ mi apiece) in two Hyundais in the last 12 months. The CVT in the Accord is miles ahead of the auto in either Hyundai I've driven.
Looking for a new car? Start here. Our Top Picks are as close as it gets to “no-brainers” in the auto market. They’re impressive all-around vehicles, chosen from more than 280 we’ve recently tested, that have excelled in our testing, are reliable, and have performed well in independent crash tests....
What it takes
Top Picks must meet our criteria in three areas:
Road test. Each must rank at or near the top of its category in overall test score.
Reliability. Each must have earned an average or better predicted-reliability Rating, based on the problems Consumer Reports subscribers reported on 1.2 million vehicles in our latest Annual Auto Survey.
Safety. Top Picks must perform adequately if tested in crash or rollover tests conducted by the government or insurance industry....
Midsized sedan
Honda Accord
The Accord was redesigned for 2013, and Honda nailed it, sending this sedan to the top of its class. This new model is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient. With its four-cylinder engine, the Accord squeezes out 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway, which is as good as the tiny Honda Fit. Higher-trim models have safety features seldom found in this category. And the Accord’s price is very reasonable: $23,270 to $30,860.
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The Accord was redesigned for 2013, and Honda nailed it, sending this sedan to the top of its class. This new model is roomy, nice to drive, well equipped, and very fuel efficient. With its four-cylinder engine, the Accord squeezes out 30 mpg overall and 40 on the highway, which is as good as the tiny Honda Fit. Higher-trim models have safety features seldom found in this category. And the Accord’s price is very reasonable: $23,270 to $30,860....Reliability. Each must have earned an average or better predicted-reliability Rating, based on the problems Consumer Reports subscribers reported on 1.2 million vehicles in our latest Annual Auto Survey. .
I am a CR fan, but I think they are prejudging the accord. The 4 cyl has been completely redone and is also using direct inject for the first time and using a CVT for the first time. How does one measure reliability and durability of something that is its first year? (Honda's previous attempt with the CVT was in the civic hybrid and it was a disaster.) Additionally, the 6 cyl is using a 6 speed transmission for the first time in the accord. Yes, they use a 6 speed in the odyssey, but they have had lots of complaints about it. But for some reason they are giving it an ok with the accord. It reminds me of the motor trend car of the year in 1981 - the K-car. All looked good in the initial year, but time proved them wrong.
The 1.6 Fusion is not a performance vehicle, so it is not surprising that the Mazda 6 performed better, given a week of hard driving.
The Fusion tested does have a higher MSRP, but just looking at the side view mirrors. I'm sure they both have heated side view mirrors, but the Fusion also has a built in wide angle, turn signals, puddle lamps, and Blind spot system.
That's just the side view mirrors, and I'll bet there are a bunch of other features that are also much better on the Fusion.
I lived with a Toyota CVT in a Highlander hybrid for 5 years.
The droning, moto boarding effect was most noticeable when passing.
Had a Prius for a loaner for two days and a good friend owns one.
Ditto on the drone, etc.
Honda’s CVT will act the same when u accelerate to pass.
As far as the Hyundai 6 speed, here’s what CR said back in 2011: “The six-speed automatic transmission shifts very smoothly and responsively.”
CR on the 2013 Sonata: “The midsized Sonata is among the best of the less-costly family sedans. It has a firm yet comfortable ride and handles quite nimbly. The base 200-hp, four-cylinder engine and smooth, responsive six-speed automatic returned an impressive 27 mpg overall.”
Overall CR gave the Sonata a score of 89 and the Accord a 90; not a significant difference
Oh, FYI, the CAFE standards are based on overall MPG, not just highway.
And CR has THE best fuel mileage test of all.
'17 Chevy Volt Premiere
A friend of mine sells Hondas and I shall test drive one to see if they have been able to improve on the CVT; all the others I have experience with have this annoying trait.
A friend of mine sells Hondas and I shall test drive one to see if they have been able to improve on the CVT; all the others I have experience with have this annoying trait.
If you drive it would you please see if you have wind noise coming in the driver's door. I've read a lot about people complaining about wind noise from the top and rear of the driver's door and was wondering if it was a common thing. Thank you. Also, please check to see if there is any "transmission shutter" at low rpms shortly after taking off and just prior to stopping (10-20 mph range). These are the two issues that I've read the most about, but I haven't driven one yet.
That includes leather heated seats front AND rear, leather steering wheel and shifter,
17” alloys, a killer 400 watt Infinity stereo w/ 8 speakers, an external amp, and a subwoofer, a 7” touch screen NAV system with a back-up camera, auto dimming mirror w/ compass, and Blue Link, Hyundai‘s much improved version of OnStar.
The only option on a Ltd. Is the panoramic tilt-and-slide sunroof which bumps up the price by $1,000.
Base model hybrids w/o the above reputedly can be had for under $24K but they are few-and-far-between.
A comparable Camry or Fusion sells for thousands more and I am sure Honda Corp will price their hybrid even higher.
This makes the Hyundai hybrids a screaming deal.
Determined to get better F/E, I did my research and decided to buy the Optima EX. I wanted the (non-hybrid) model with the best chance at getting good F/E numbers (24/35). Unfortunately, those numbers remain out of my reach. Due to the area I live in, my average speed is 26 mph, and I am not able to get over 22.5 mpg, especially over the past few months with the A/C cranked.
So, it seems all those Prius and other hybrid owners have the right idea, as tooling around the city at low speeds requires only electric power for the most part, saving a bundle at the pump. Live and learn! :shades:
I would not consider buying a first year car and that is essentially what the new accord is. I had an accord for 13 years and could never get rid of the wind noise from the A pillar. From what I have read, wind noise on the A pillar has been a problem on the accord since its introduction in 1976. (One would think they could have taken care of that issue in all those years. It seems they may have moved the noise from the A pillar to the middle and back of the window, but not gotten rid of it.) I also had three replacement transmissions (under warranty) in my 2000 accord and know of Honda's long history of transmission problems - not just with the accord. I would still consider an accord, but wouldn't remotely consider one with the new technology (direct inject and cvt) so it's not worth the effort for me to drive one, but if someone else is going to do so I would like to know his assessment, particularly since krypto gave an exact description (and unpleasant experience) of the only cvt vehicle I've driven (I rented a 2013 Altima).
As is yours. You can't seem to avoid talking about the Sonata, even when nobody brings it up in conversation.
I lived with a Toyota CVT in a Highlander hybrid for 5 years.
The droning, moto boarding effect was most noticeable when passing.
Not all CVTs are created equally (or programmed equally, for that matter). Comparing a 6+ year old design from a different manufacturer, linked to a hybrid powertrain in a 4500-lb SUV with a V6 to a family car weighing 3200-lbs, a four-cylinder, and no hybrid is no comparison at all.
And CR has THE best fuel mileage test of all.
Says... who?
Overall CR gave the Sonata a score of 89 and the Accord a 90; not a significant difference
Agreed. The Sonata is a good car. The Accord, by every journalist's opinion I can find, is an even better one, but it doesn't suit everyone's taste. Drive what you like, like what you drive.
But the Jetson's styling is already tired when I see them on the road. The previous Sonata had a styling that is timelessly pleasant.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Pretty obvious why Consumer Reports mpg tests are the best:
CR’s test utilizes a test track and public roads, including a freeway for “highway” testing, and a fuel meter spliced into the fuel line.
Their data are corrected for temperature using a formula established by the Society of Automotive Engineers.
The EPA tests are actually performed by the automakers with protocols from the EPA on a dynamometer.
For many models automakers may now substitute mathematical simulations of the EPA’s new tests.
The Sonata hybrid also had the first active air flap of any car available in the US.
It automatically closes when the car hits highway speeds.
Fusion hybrids also have this.
I'm guessing because you're a "Hyundai guy" and have sought out conversation on a car you like/own/are interested in owning. No problems there, but admit your own bias if you're going to call others out on it.
It's the "midsize sedans" thread; accessible through many directions. It is not focused on the Sonata, but is focused on all competitors in the mainstream, midsize family sedans class. It is not focused on Hyundai.
Pretty obvious why Consumer Reports mpg tests are the best
It's one standard way; it's not the "best." There is no "best" but it's a good way; I'm not doubting you there.
I have to disagree. The new Accord does resemble the $40,000 Hyunda Genesis from the rear, though. The 2006-2010 Sonata rear-end was a dead-ringer for the 2003-2007 generation of Accord. Trust me; I owned both.
The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ties with the Prisus lift back for the lowest Cd, .25 so don't expect major changes in its styling.
That's a shame, because while I think the regular Sonata 2.4 and 2.0T are nice looking, the front of the Hybrid is a robotic catfish on four wheels.
I have to disagree. The new Accord does resemble the $40,000 Hyunda Genesis from the rear, though. The 2006-2010 Sonata rear-end was a dead-ringer for the 2003-2007 generation of Accord. Trust me; I owned both.
The Hyundai Sonata Hybrid ties with the Prisus lift back for the lowest Cd, .25 so don't expect major changes in its styling.
That's a shame, because the Hybrid looks like a bionic catfish.
It looks that way because of the aerodynamics.
At least it is fresh, not blandly retro like the Accords.
FYI, this thread is about midsize sedans and until recently the Sonata was being left out. And I already own one - my second Sonata hybrid - and also drive a Venza and '95 T100 4WD.
Not as many fan boiyz as honda i guess.
And please let me know when you find a better mpg test than Consumer Reports does.
U do know what an automotive engineer is don't you?
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