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While Ford (and other manufacturers) are making strides to try and be more competitive in the global marketplace, I do not feel comfortable buying any of their cars.
Does sound good. Stay away from those 'used or rental' unless you definitely know the vehicle's history. New with warranty is a nice position to pay up for.
Also - did you not see the latest Initial Quality Survey by JD Power that place Mazda next to last? I'm sure you have. I feel its an insignificant survey that in which your decision to buy a Mazda supports my feeling.
One thing though, there is not an auxilary input for mp3 players and I don't think the cd player will accept them. I recently installed an auxilary input in my 6 and I was able to choose where I wanted the jacks (yes I put in two input jacks...one for an mp3 player in the armrest, and another that plugs into my gps around the compartment in the dash). But if having support for your mp3 player is important, there are some options available that are easy to install - mine took about an hour and I'm not mechanically inclined at all.
This is silver with grey cloth interior. I like red, but silver is fine too. A silver car looks cleaner than it is.
You are right about the depreciation. I'm going to sell it at 40,000 miles (or maybe more) so I'll have to take a hit. But I figured that this is at least better than buying the same car last yr for 20,000.
Dumb question here but do all Mazda6s have a V6 engine? Is this one an I4 or a V6? I think you mentioned that it has a six-speed automatic transmission so it must be a 3.0-liter V6.
I test drove used mazda6s and the car is a delight. Great handling, good power and lots of grip (I drove it with TCS off). Autoshift has a lag but good enough for downshifting on highways. The best thing about the car is the chassis. V6 may have less power than honda V6, but with that chassis it will be faster in the real world.
That's a significant development.
He's fixing that, too. He immediately took control of the capital budget away from the Board of Directors and he now has sole discretion of how to spend capital. That alone should help a lot.
That's good to know. Thanks for all the information, I hadn't really had a chance to read up on any of this.
If you menat the "s" to signify plural, then no. If you meant to refer the version that is called Mazda6 s as opposed to the Mazda6 i, then yes.
Mazda uses the "i" designation for the 4 cylinder models of the Mazda6 and the "s" designation for the V6.
link title
Yeah, I'd have to agree with that. Grip in turns is just amazing for a midsize sedan and it corners so much flatter than other cars in this class which is probably why it feels so composed. And the strange/ great thing is, it doesn't have a harsh ride. Usually with a suspension that is really good in mid-corner, most cars tend to get a bit harsh, but I think the Mazda6 is very well dampened when hitting bumps. It's the best of both worlds and is what makes the 6's chassis so highly regarded.
I bought my car in Nov of 05 so the 06's were out already and I bought a 2005 leftover with manual tranny, v-6, bose and sunroof for 19.5, so you're getting about $400 less in net options (you'll have auto, but no bose/sunroof) w/ an extra 3k off what I paid. Plus your car will be much easier to keep clean than mine which is dark grey...one thing I love about silver cars. So to get that price, do you have to finance through Mazda? I had to in order to get an extra 1k in rebates, but I paid mine off in a few months with another loan w/ lower interest so no big deal. I'm just amazed at the deal you're getting... btw, if you do a fair amount of grocery getting, check out the organizer tray for the trunk... it's awesome for keeping things from rolling around and getting damaged while taking corners faster than you should with a dozen eggs in the trunk :shades:
I don't think that's really possible in the 6, is it?
On the side impact testing, IIHS never retested with side air bags. Their test is tougher than the US or European gov't testing.
I haven't checked...just a thought for consideration.
Well, fortunately for this particular buyer, the Mazda6s he is considering is a 2006, and Mazda did better in the 2006 IQS.
Well, according to edmunds, trade in value is $16,400 for a base 2006 Mazda6 s, with automatic. I used 6 miles on the OD and "outstanding" condition.
I agree that any car should usually provide that 100k of relatively troublefree service including those Camcordimas and Fusions. As for what is class leading? - beauty is largely in the eye of the beholder.
I don't mind bashing where it's deserved but most of it here isn't.
The Fusion has best in class reliability according to multiple sources and it offers AWD - something the Camcords don't. The powertrains and interiors are perfectly adequate - not great, I'll admit - but not bad and certainly not substandard by any stretch of the imagination.
If simply stating a fact is bashing then we might as well all go home and stop talking about cars for the rest of our lives.
Fact: Ford Fusion has the second lowest ouput V6 engine in this class.
All right, now call me a Ford basher.
:confuse: :sick:
Ford Fusion has the second lowest ouput V6 engine in this class
Perfectly accurate. You could also just say that it's 221 hp vs. 240 or 265 in the Accord and Camry respectively.
For me (and probably a lot of other V6 buyers) 221 hp is more than enough and I could care less if the competition has more. I see the facts and make my own judgements.
But other potential buyers who see "substandard" this and that and other totally subjective and in some cases undeserved criticisms may get the wrong impression and not even consider a Fusion or Milan.
Depends on what you consider "standard". Who said that 240+ hp in a FWD family sedan is "standard"?
You seem to be caught up in some engineering competition. I'll certainly give you that - the DT3.0 does not represent state of the art in engine design. Ford's entry in that competition would be the 3.5 and it is competetive. The DT3.0 also probably a lot cheaper than the other V6s including Ford's own 3.5L (until production is ramped up).
However, in the real world application of a midsize family sedan the DT3.0L is perfectly adequate and not substandard to anything.
that's easy - something in the neighborhood of a several hundred thousand Camcordima buyers (and Aura buyers and Sonata buyers etc.). And yes, HP and powertrain refinement issues are certainly on the top of my personal list.
Apples and oranges - people who buy 4 bangers do so for some logical reasons which are hard to dispute. Whether I think it is enough HP or not is not the point, they are buying that 4 banger for FE and to save a little money. This is why, BTW, I only mentioned 'hundreds of thousands' V6 buyers (instead of well over a million), simply because only 20 or 30% of the Camcordimas are bought with V6s.
Yeah, we'd kinda rather you not do that But it'd be nice if we could stop nit-picking and stop focusing on who is/isn't a basher, an enthusiast, or a loyalist, who should/shouldn't say what and how it should be stated, and which statements are facts vs. opinion.
Focusing on that stuff makes the conversation seem 1) about other members' credibility rather than about vehicles, and 2) pedantic. Thanks for keeping focused on the cars.
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I don't know about you but to me "substandard" and "below-average" are more or less the same. The Fusion's V6 is indeed below-average within this class.
You could also just say that it's 221 hp vs. 240 or 265 in the Accord and Camry respectively.
I could, and I would also add Altima, Aura XR and Sonata. Spin it all you want the fact is that Fusion's V6 is at bottom of the pack.
For me (and probably a lot of other V6 buyers) 221 hp is more than enough and I could care less if the competition has more.
Fine, so the Fusion's 221 HP is more than enough for you but that still doesn't change the fact that it is trailing others in the power output department. Believe me, I myself is a horsepower nut and that's why I don't drive a midsizer anymore (the reason I am here is because I think this is the most interesting segment and I used to own a 97' Honda Accord LX. Also, I might be soon to help my sister and parents to purchase another 2 midsizers). However, I wouldn't mind to recommend Fusion to anyone that wants a "relatively" inexpensive midsize yet offers good quality fit-n'-finish and decent performance.
But your right, sometimes it does go a little too far, but for the most part, one of the most useful forum discussions on the net that I've seen.
One other thing...how often is a car pushed where the engine is actually outputing that extra 20 or 30 HP? Though I like to drive to have fun, very rarely am I pushing my car to where I am using all 220 HP. And even with my "measly" 220HP engine, I'm still faster than more than 90% of the cars on the road so if that's substandard to you, so be it. And I don't think that a car with a substandard engine would make Consumer's Digest's Sportiest Car list, Edmund's Editor's most desired sedan under 25k, or Esquire's most desired cars list. Just like the Accord isn't precluded from winning it's awards despite having brakes that stop a bit longer than most of it's competition.
That being said, our 2007 V6 SEL AWD Fusion ($27,105 MSRP) is the nicest car my wife and I have ever owned, dating back to 1958.
The 3.0-liter, 221-horsepower engine is more than adequate in all driving situations. It is coupled to a best-in-class six (6) speed automatic transmission that is flawless, smooth as silk in all driving situations.
OK, the Fusion is not the fastest mid-size sedan 0-60, but how many people truly engage in stoplight racing? How many people really care about such things? The Fusion is certainly not under powered. At least not for us. It is a tried and true power plant known for its reliability, dependability.
The fit and finish on our Fusion is simply outstanding. It could not be any better. Perfection cannot be improved upon. Is this typical? I don't know, but ours is this way. Everything looks as it should, works as it should. After six months of ownership there has not been a single squeak, rattle, thump or bump in the first 3,400 miles of operation.
One of the biggest selling points for us is the bold, distinctive styling. The Fusion is unique in its looks and this is a very good thing in our book. The other cars in the mid-size sedan category look bland, to us.
Our Fusion is loaded with creature comforts and safety features. It handles like it is on rails. The ride is extremely comfortable, yet sporty, thanks to 17-by-7.5 inch machined aluminum wheels and P225/50R/17 Michelin Pilot tires.
In short, we bought a car that was best for us. We're sure that many Camry, Accord, Aura, Altima, Sebring, Legacy, Sonata, Mazda6, etc. owners feel the same way about their automobiles.
Could Ford improve the Fusion? Yes, and is doing so for the 2008 model year. Could all of the other cars in the mid-size segment be improved in some way? Of course.
We think Ford has a genuine winner in the Fusion, a product that is a better idea, a bold, distinctive one at that.
It's not likely that anything written here is going to make converts out of anybody. Auto enthusiasts are generally passionate about their choices, often with good reason.
You're basing these drivetrain comparisons on bench testing data and spec sheets, not on how the vehicles themselves perform in the real world and certainly not on customer expectations. Outside of a few enthusiasts (and horsepower nuts like yourself) the extra power doesn't matter.
Then the Fusion is also substandard since it doesn't have a hybrid variant (at least not yet), doesn't offer push-button start, and has no navi option. We can go at it all day all you want and that's not going to get anywhere. It's silly...
By the way, I am NOT basing my opinions on spec sheet or any mag comparos. I drove Fusion, Mazda6, Camry, Altima, Accord, G6 before and my opinions are basing on my personal experience. I said it really clear in my previous post, I would glad to recommend anyone who wants a "relatively" inexpensive midsizer with good quality and performance. However, that still doesn't reduce that fact that Fusion DOES have one of the weakest V6 in this segment.
That's a fact. Let's not arguing with facts.
You're basing these drivetrain comparisons on bench testing data and spec sheets, not on how the vehicles themselves perform in the real world and certainly not on customer expectations. Outside of a few enthusiasts (and horsepower nuts like yourself) the extra power doesn't matter.
I consider the Ford Fusion 'substandard' (your term) because it doesn't meet the most of the standards set by the Accord in terms of power, transmission, handling, fit/finish, ergonometrics, and especially proven long term performance. The Sonata comes closest. I'd buy one of those before settling for a Fusion.
The envious tones in your posts are so clear. But the Accord is a tough act to follow, and will be even tougher when the 2008 appears on dealer lots.
I understand the Fusion's limitations - it's basically a clean sheet first effort for Ford after ignoring the segment for many years. The Camry and Accord are still the benchmarks in this segment but that does not mean they do everything well or that other vehicles aren't competitive.
I'm simply tired of people making negative statements without any basis in fact just because they don't like Ford.
I don't know. appearence wise, I like the 2007 better. Honda seems unwilling to do anything darring with its accord design. And being as the accord does most everything else very well (safty, reliabilty, finish) there's not a whole lot of room for improvement.
If inexpensive is what is wanted, they should be looking at the 4 cylinder models, anyway.
Okay, let me rephrase...
I would glad to recommend anyone who wants a "relatively" inexpensive V6 midsizer with good quality and performance. However, that still doesn't reduce that fact that Fusion DOES have one of the weakest V6 in this segment.
You a**...
:P
OK, since you are so consistent about reprimanding all of us about 'the facts' then I'd like you to explain to me how the Fusion is a 'clean sheet' anything - a slightly softened chassis and chassis design borrowed from Mazda, a 4 banger of Mazda origin, a V6 engine dating from the Taurus of the mid 90s, a 4WD system borrowed from Volvo etc. etc. What exactly is 'clean sheet' the razor blade grille and clear lens tailights? Please, please provide me with this 'basis in fact' you mention, I've been wrong before - just ask my wife .
I wouldn't even claim that the new Camry, Altima or Aura is 'clean sheet', and would be willing to bet that even the new Accord won't borrow heavily on previous on its predecessors.
I agree with you about one thing, though, the Fusion is a credible effort to get Ford back into the car business after many years of neglect.
I'm with you, Egg. Appearance-wise I find the 2007 to be more attractive than the spy photos that I've seen of the '08s so far. To be sure, Honda is not very daring when it comes to the style of their cars. Maybe they don't have to be. At least the Accord looks better than the Camry, IMHO.
I am totally in agreement with those who claim the superiority of the Honda Toyota et al engines. However, this is because of the their greater fuel efficiency, not because of their power. In regards to power I agree with the Ford camp that says 220 is plenty. 220 is more than enough. I had a Taurus with the 140hp Vulcan, and not once did I think it needed to be faster - many times I wished it got better gas mileage though.
What if Toyota put the technology in their 3.5 liter engine into their 3.0. So what if it was down a few hp. It would still be plenty fast and would get even better mpg.
We are sending far too many dollars to OPEC countries. Fuel economy is not just about dollars saved.
To be totally honest, a v-6 is superfluous in the vast majority of situations. Fun...yes, but so is the I4 with a stick.
Besides if you want fun just buy an old Miata - to bomb around in on the weekends. Most daily commutes generally do not offer very many oppertunities to have "fun" with the engine. The gas saved and the purchase money saved will easily pay for the Miata.
Why cruise around with all that power only to use it a small percentage of the time? As it is I rarely get a chance to put the spurs to my I4. Though I do consider buying an overly powerfull engine to be wasefull, I would certainly not put it in the same category of wastefullness as commuting to work in a Suburban by oneself.
Understand, that I am speaking in general terms. I know some people with V-6 engines that get better mpg than those with the 4-cyl (mostly due to driving style and transmission choice).
To finish up, I really look forward to seeing the new crop of more efficient drivetrains in the midsized segment - especially the diesels.
I think you meant to say the opposite of what the words say, that you would be willing to bet that the new Accord WILL borrow heavily from its predecessors. To be sure the 2008 Accord will not be all new, from the ground up. Not from what I've read anyway.