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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,071
    I was going by what thecarconnection.com said in their review.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    If they are smart Honda Corp will shed the V6s sooner rather than later as Hyundai and now Ford have done with their mid sized offerings.

    Why would Honda get rid of a class-leading 278 HP V6 engine? What other mid-size sedans come with that much power?

    It also gets pretty good mileage, and for the CVT haters (although I hate CVT's I don't hate Honda's after a test-drive), it has the fantastic 6-speed automatic. It's like a low-cost Acura TL FWD.

    I think if your buying the Accord as a family mid-size sedan, you'd be wise to take the extra 90 HP and go with the V6 for not that much more money. If your buying the Accord for the driving experience, perhaps an argument could be made for the lighter smaller engine allowing better handling.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    Why would Honda get rid of a class-leading 278 HP V6 engine?

    Honda will follow Hyundai and Ford and drop the V6 because of fuel economy.
    The CAFE regs escalate the mpg ratings rapidly in the near future so car makers really don't have a choice.

    Hybrids,
    Diesels,
    Hybrid Diesels and
    even three cylinders are going to sweep up V6s like dinosaur dust.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited August 2013
    Honda will follow Hyundai and Ford and drop the V6 because of fuel economy.
    The CAFE regs escalate the mpg ratings rapidly in the near future so car makers really don't have a choice.

    Oh I don't think so....

    Here are the current EPA Estimates and power output for the Accord, Fusion and Sonata higher output engines...

    Accord V6: 22/34/25 (278hp/252tq) 0-60mph 5.6 sec
    Fusion 2.0T: 23/33/26 (237hp/270tq) 0-60mph 6.9 sec
    Sonata 2.0T: 23/34/26 (274hp/269tq) 0-60mph 6.5 sec

    I see no reason why CAFE would force Honda to shed the V6 in the Accord. Makes absolutely no sense based on your claims that they are not fuel-efficient.

    Neither Hyundai or Ford have shown any advantage of going smaller and boosting their engines. If anything, the newer Ford EcoBoost vehicles have been a disappointment in the real word. Having a family member who owns an EcoBoost Ford, I am reminded daily how terrible it is.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I think the first gen of Ford ecoboost engines are not as efficient as they can be and that they need both software and hardware tweaks to reach full potential. In particular cooling seems to be an issue requiring the engine to run richer than normal to compensate. That's already fixed in the new 1.5L Ecoboost engine.

    That said, nobody is better than Honda at powertrains.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That said, nobody is better than Honda at powertrains.

    I do think in some cars, they are near the top of the class, but not all.
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    The EPA isn't actually going to "force" automakers to do anything and I did not post or imply that.

    They will need to nearly double fuel economy to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025 to meet the new CAFÉ standards. That will accelerate the use of existing engine technologies and create more demand for hybrids, particularly start-stop systems that use small batteries. Automakers agreed to the measures, and there will be an interim assessment in 2017 to review both the cost and effectiveness of different approaches.

    Already, automakers are swapping out six-cylinder engines with four-cylinders equipped with a turbo or super charger, which improves economy while maintaining horsepower.
    Traditional hybrids, where a battery powers a car part of the time, are poised for greater use.
    Mild hybrids, which car makers have started introducing in the U.S., are most compelling because the incremental cost delivers a few percent improvement in efficiency, say experts.

    The new CAFE standards also include incentives for automakers to advance specific technologies, including electric vehicles, plug-in hybrids, and fuel cell vehicles. You can bet Honda Corp will turn to these technologies and abandon their excellent V6 to comply with the stringent new CAFÉ standards which they have already agreed to.

    Natural gas vehicles, which are made and sold in the U.S by Honda, also qualify for these credits. 
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited August 2013
    That said, nobody is better than Honda at powertrains.

    LOL. I think Honda makes great engines - although they seem to be having problems with the 6 cyl VCMs burning oil - but they have never really made a great transmission. Historically, this has been the weak point in Hondas - the transmissions. The CVT in the civic hybrid was nothing short of a disaster. There is no shortage of current 6 speed transmission issues either. Google it. They've had recalls and class action suits on their transmissions. I recently read a blog of a guy who bought a 2013 6 cyl accord and had the transmission replaced very shortly after buying it. He was upset about having a rebuilt transmission in a new car. I guess he should have read the odyssey blogs before buying a Honda 6 speed.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Every manufacturer has those horror stories - anecdotal. The CR data shows Honda transmissions to be reliable. They did have a few years with problems, but even then the overall numbers showed average reliability. The last half dozen years have been well above average.

    Nissan has had CVT issues. Ford and VW have had DSG issues. Chrysler has had terrible problems (new trans may finally be better). Pretty much everybody that sells a lot of cars has had some bad transmissions.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited August 2013
    54 mpg is not correct in terms of what you'll find on the window sticker in 2025. That's the test number from the 1976 test. Since then the EPA window sticker has twice been revised downward to get closer to "real world" results. But in terms of CAFE they still go with the old and completely unrealistic number.

    In other words, the 54.5 mpg CAFE translates into c. 39 mpg combined on the window sticker. And that, of course, is an average. Some cars and trucks will get higher, others will be lower. And various "credits" mean that the actual number might be as low as 36 mpg.

    In other words, the 54.5 number is a kind of "bureaucratic lie."

    What CAFE translates to in terms of midsize cars is this:

    2017: c. 27 mpg combined EPA window sticker
    2021: c. 32 mpg combined
    2025: c. 38 mpg combined.

    My 2013 Honda Accord CVT is rated 30 mpg combined, and so it is already beyond the standard for 2017.

    The CAFE standards, in other words, are much less strict than the false "54.5" mpg number would lead you to believe

    If Honda slimmed down its big 3.5 V-6 to 3 liters, for instance, I see no reason why the next generation Honda Accord, which is due for model year 2018, couldn't still have a V-6.

    But the Accord due 9 years from now, for model year 2023, isn't likely to have a V-6 imho. But time will tell.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/good-and-bad-news-emerges-from-cafes-fine-pr- int.html

    "2. MPG Confusion Will Continue. CAFE's goal is to achieve a 2025 fleet average fuel economy of 49.6 mpg (as expressed by NHTSA). But the test system enshrined by Congress in 1976 cannot adequately capture the benefits of certain fuel-saving and CO2-reducing technologies. To paper this over, regulators established a system of credits, and the use of such credits is what boosts the EPA's CAFE number to the equivalent of 54.5 mpg — the figure usually cited by the administration, members of Congress and the media. This higher figure is what is required to meet the EPA's requirement that tailpipe emissions of CO2 drop 35 percent to 163 grams per mile by 2025.

    The congressionally mandated CAFE tests do more than mask the benefits of certain modern technologies. They're also wildly optimistic. The EPA, NHTSA and everyone in the industry knows this, so a more modern system of tests has been put in place to figure fuel-economy ratings for new-vehicle window stickers. That program is not subject to CAFE's congressional mandate. The 54.5-mpg figure equals about 36 mpg in the EPA's current window-sticker measuring system. So despite what the politicians and headlines say, forget the idea that all cars and trucks will be delivering somewhere around 54.5 mpg 13 years from now. That simply won't happen."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    Since I know that CAFE is an acronym for Corporate Average Fuel Economy I know the stickers will vary.
    We'll still have trucks and SUVs with MPG ratings in the teens and more hybrids and EVs will be in the fifties and above.

    But auto makers will have to meet the CAFE average.
    That'll be easier for Honda and Hyundai as the former doesn't offer 'real' pickups or large SUVs and the latter sells no pickups at all in the US.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited August 2013
    It won't actually be easier for Hyundai and Honda.

    CAFE more or less gives big trucks a "pass" and only has relatively small improvements there. As you'll see in that Edmunds article, vehicles are ranked by class.

    It's all very complicated (900 pages!), but what it seems to boil down to is that the standards are slightly easier for Ford, GM, and Chrysler, because they sell large pickups, and slightly harder for everyone else.

    That's why VW protested the standards and didn't join the voluntary agreement for this.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    edited August 2013
    Understandably, they left room for big powerful pickups in cafe, and so they don't have as much of an increase from 2012 to 2025. I agree with this, actually, because a lot of people and businesses do use their trucks for work.

    For instance, small cars like Corolla and Civic are encouraged to move their EPA sticker combined mpg from 27 in 2012 to 43 by 2025. That's a c.60% increase

    Trucks, like the F-150, are encouraged to move their EPA sticker from 17 in 2012 to 23 by 2025, which is an increase of 35%. And most of that increase is focused in the last few years. Here's how it plays out for large trucks:

    2012: 17
    2014: 18
    2016: 19
    and then it stays at 19 for several years
    2022: 20
    2023: 21
    2024: 22
    2025: 23

    So between 2012 and 2021, a period of 10 years, CAFE only goes up by 2 mpg for F-150s. That's an increase of 12% for a whole decade.

    Between 2012 and 2021, a Corolla is encouraged to go from 27 to 37, which is an increase of 37%.

    Again, I actually mostly agree with this loophole for big trucks, but it is definitely something of a gap in CAFE.

    The current F-150 with the 3.5 Ecoboost that has 360hp and 420lb of torque gets 18mpg.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Kyrpto-

    You did imply CAFE was going to force Honda to drop the V6. This is what you said...The CAFE regs escalate the mpg ratings rapidly in the near future so car makers really don't have a choice

    If car makes don't "have a choice", then they are being forced to make changes. Yes, agreeing to better fuel efficiency regulations does not mean they are being forced to make smaller motors. It just means automakers have agreed to find ways to increase fuel economy. If manufacturers want to go small and add turbo's, then fine. Personally, I don't think that's the way to go.

    Already, automakers are swapping out six-cylinder engines with four-cylinders equipped with a turbo or super charger, which improves economy while maintaining horsepower

    Again, you said this.....Honda will follow Hyundai and Ford and drop the V6 because of fuel economy

    The Accord V6 is not at a power deficit to any boosted I4 engine, and gets the same economy as well. Automakers are swapping out V6s because they have not found a way to maintain economy and power. Honda clearly has.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    I find the truck exemption to be a joke. The vast majority of pickups (this class includes SUV's) are driven by normal commuters not businesses. It is clearly a concession to the lobbyists for the big three.

    Big trucks are the biggest offenders when it comes to pollution and using up our oil supply - why give them a pass?

    I have no problem with farm and commercially registered vehicles getting an exemption, but why should my neighbor who commutes in a suburban get a pass?

    I do look forward to the higher mpg that the cars will get. It would be nice to reduce fuel expenses.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    If you do look forward to higher mpg then why does it matter what your neighbor drives? He'll be spending more to drive the same distance...if you're worried about the oil supply and the markets adjust to the limited supply he'll be paying even more; it all works out :)
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    His (their) overuse of fuel adds to demand which makes prices higher still. If it were a vacuum I wouldn't care, but his actions effect me.
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    The new Malibu is going to garner a lot of sales in the mid sized sedan segment.
    While early previews indicate the only engine offered - a 4 cylinder - isn't quite up to the fuel efficiency of the class leading Sonata and Camry 4s, the large 18.5 gallon fuel tank will give this beauty a range comparable to the Sonata hybrids (700 miles) .

    Glad Chevy finally 'got it right.'
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The new Malibu is going to garner a lot of sales in the mid sized sedan segment.While early previews indicate the only engine offered - a 4 cylinder - isn't quite up to the fuel efficiency of the class leading Sonata and Camry 4s, the large 18.5 gallon fuel tank will give this beauty a range comparable to the Sonata hybrids (700 miles)

    Neither the Sonata or the Camry lead the way with fuel efficiency in this class. The Accord, Altima and Mazda6 all get better city, highway and combined fuel economy.

    Are you instead talking about the hybrid Malibu? In that case, the Mazda6, Altima and Accord get better mileage than that, without any electronic motor assistance.

    With how competitive this segment is and the quality of the top contenders, I don't see the Malibu selling much better than it currently does.
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    More on the Bowtie:
    While mid sized hybrid sedans are becoming more and more numerous as auto makers begin to deal with the stringent new CAFÉ regs, hybrida are virtually absent from the large sedans.

    While a 305 hp, 3.6-liter V6 is available for the new, top rated Chevy Impala, GM is also offering a 182-hp, 2.4-liter four-cylinder hybrid and a 195-hp, 2.5-liter four-cylinder as the cars hit the showrooms. This car will give the class leading Avalon, which also has a hybrid power train, a run for the money but GM’s hybrids still have a way to go to compete with the gasoline-electric leaders, Toyota, Hyundai, and Ford.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    I suppose...

    There's a lot of politics related to oil supply.

    It's almost like saying; my neighbor purchased an expensive engagement ring, due to the limited supply its driving up costs for my engagement ring!

    Sort of... :)

    De Beers, OPEC...you'll get the shaft no matter what you buy :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I actually had two Accords during college; my 1996 LX 2.2L and my 2006 EX 2.4L. The 1996 was stellar, but the 2006 had some rattles and actually some build quality issues (console lid fabric came off, CD Changer died about 3 years into ownership, rattly/creaky moonroof). I went to The University of Alabama at Birmingham and have always lived in the suburbs of B'ham.

    You and I have been around here a long time!
  • kyrptokyrpto Member Posts: 216
    edited August 2013
    To thegraduate:
    Have you ever run across Peter Brigham?
    His dad was a dentist from Birmingham who later designed and built two ski resorts; Sugar Mt. in NC and Snowshoe in West Virginia.

    Pete was the first Ski Patrol Director at Snowshoe where I worked as a ski instructor for two years back in the 80s.
    He's been back in B'ham for 'bout 15 years.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    My Titanium is sitting on 30 mpg with just my normal commute.
    29 miles round trip. I have a mile long uphill section a mile from when I leave my house that I drive in 5th gear, so it's not like I'm trying maximize fuel mileage.
    I think there is a technique to driving these cars. Maybe similar to pulse and glide, the same way I drive a stick.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/08/was-the-2012-camry-a-stealth-failure/

    Op-Ed: Was The 2012 Camry A Stealth Failure?
    By J.Emerson on August 8, 2013

    " 0% financing for 60 months. Up to $2,000 in dealer rebates, most of which winds up going into customers’ pockets. Rental lines bulging with high-trim sedans as dealers desperately attempt to shovel away product and make room for truckloads of new arrivals. Savvy shoppers are shaving three, four, and even five grand off of MSRP as average transaction prices land in the basement for the class. Despite massive inflows of manufacturer cash, sales volume stagnates and declines as competitors grab more and more market share. All in merely the second model year of Toyota’s marquee product, a legendary nameplate with a (supposedly) loyal customer base and years of carefully-crafted reputation. What, pray tell, is going on here?..."
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What, pray tell, is going on here?

    2013 Honda Accord
    2014 Mazda6
    2013 Ford Fusion
    2013 VW Passat
    2013 Kia Optima
    2013 Nissan Altima
    2013 Hyundai Sonata

    ... all better cars than the Camry, IMO. Heck, maybe even the Malibu is a better car than the Camry!
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    I think this was a hack job. I just looked at the USAA website and compared pricing in my area for the camry and accord. If Toyota is "giving them away" to get rid of them, I would have to ask why is there only about $100 difference in the baseline models and about $600 between top of the line 4 cyl models?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Based just on advertised prices for Camrys in my area, Toyota IS giving them away. Huge advertised discounts on them, and very low lease prices--much lower than on Accords, for example, even though the MSRPs are pretty close.

    And we all know Toyota sells lots of Camrys to fleets, to keep the sales numbers up there.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    I wonder if autonomous cars will be ready by 2025. I think that will be the beginning of the end for human controlled driving (on many major roads).

    Google, and many respected Universities sponsored by heavyweights in the industry have been driving around the desert since 2004, developing the technology. (Darpa Grand Challenge)

    In 2007, a Volkswagen Passat developed by Stanford University came in 2nd place.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2013
    A black Camry LE with 30 day tags just appeared this weekend across the street. Why does a car with hubcaps and cloth seats have wood trim interior?

    I would much rather have even a cheap set of alloys, and some inexpensive but useful fog lights before "pining' for chunks of ploakstic.

    I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.

    There may be some truth to that, but I would have to mention my 2000 accord. At 1k miles I converted to synthetic oil and changed it every 5k with a WIX filter. I flushed the cooling system annually (have done so on every car I've ever owned). I flushed the power steering fluid every 2 years. I changed spark plugs every 50k (at 50 and 100k) (with 100k iridiums). I used a K&N filter and cleaned it annually. Did more than the scheduled maintenance on everything but the transmission. Why did I not do the transmission? By 75k miles I had the original and 3 rebuilt transmission in the car - I never got to the mileage where I could flush it.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited August 2013
    At 1k miles I converted to synthetic oil and changed it every 5k with a WIX filter. I flushed the cooling system annually (have done so on every car I've ever owned). I flushed the power steering fluid every 2 years. I changed spark plugs every 50k (at 50 and 100k) (with 100k iridiums). I used a K&N filter and cleaned it annually.

    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list. Why people use these filters (that work by letting more air....hence dirt, through) for street use, is beyond me. Sometimes the effect they have on tuning due to non OEM air intake flow, can actually decrease performance throughout the rev range that most consumers find themselves in in normal day to day driving. I guess if you never do gravel roads, never drive where they use salt and sand on the roads in the winter, never drive on roads near beaches where the sand is blown inland etc etc and stick to slow speeds downtown in big cities with lots of pavement and few construction zones {ya right}, then they might filter adequately. Ironically, after they have been installed for awhile, they actually start to filter dirt a little better because the dirt has started to clog them. But of course that whole scene doesn't address how the air box shape and intentioned intake pattern of air gets changed erratically by default, or the fact that in order for it to get to that stage, a lot of dirt got sucked into the engine first. This residue dirt can often be found on the 'clean side' of air boxes in some applications where blowby fumes help it stick to the airbox walls.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2013
    Sounds like the transmission was "flushed" enough already. Every now and then, as I have said before, there are so many subcontractors that supply parts to the automotive industry that not every gear, cog, clutch and solenoid is actually made by Honda. My big surprise was finding out that GM supplies 70% of BMW transmissions, for example.

    You got a lemon. It happens, even to Toyota. Here is an excerpt from Camry forums about a lurching and downshifting problem on 2011 four cylinder models. Also, there is no dipstick!!

    "my problem is the downshifting so seems it would not help this situation at all
    wish they would just "come clean" and admit they have a design issue
    and fix it
    I don't like the fact that we cannot check our transmission fluid (no dipstick).
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Had a brand new [22miles] Camry for a weeks rental. The ride was harsh and busy. Would never buy one. Now if Honda redesigned the Accord to look like the Civic , that would be tempting.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list. Why people use these filters (that work by letting more air....hence dirt, through) for street use, is beyond me.

    I've used K&N filters since the 70s with no problems. I've given many of them as presents and never had anyone mention a problem. You either love them or hate them. We seem to be on opposite ends of the spectrum on that.

    As to getting a lemon in my accord... I don't think so. I know many people in the repair business and they all tell me that the biggest problem in Hondas is that they use Honda transmissions. Aside from transmissions, the only "common" problem is front motor mounts in the 4 cyl (I had that replaced, too).
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I've used K&N filters since the 70s with no problems.

    I sorta knew that I might get a reply along those lines. I've seen it before..
    I'm happy for you but do wonder about the rest of the history on those vehicles once you've moved on?

    I guess it really depends on how many miles you do and how long you keep your cars. Besides, some people change their oil often enough that perhaps it doesn't get low enough from engine wear burning it, to be an issue between changes. Of course the gradual diminished compression from premature engine wear and reduced performance and fuel economy may or may not be noticed by everyone.

    What you won't find I can assure you, is anyone who puts unusually high miles on their vehicles (like heavy truck owners) or others when measured in hours (like road building excavators etc) won't use a so-called performance type of air filter. It is OEM for them, and if anything pre-filters are installed for extra tough applications.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited August 2013
    You could very well be right. IDK. The only high mileage (greater than 200k) I am aware of is the one I gave (a K&N) to my brother when he bought a new Toyota pickup. He has used it for 341k miles so far with no problems. He also uses synthetic oil - he checks the oil in December and changes it in june. He says it has never been low.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Yeah, it's possible. Five years ago I never would have believed it, but after watching a video of the Google car, who knows what might be happening by 2025.

    My guess, however, is that the expense of such systems will make them only available for very high end vehicles like a Lexus or Mercedes Benz. The might offer a special "Google Lexus LS360 Hybrid" or something for $150,000. Only a few dozen might be sold each year at first....
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    Any guesses as to where we'll be in 2018 in terms of length, width, weight, and engine size? What about in 2025?
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    My granddaughters will be in their early 40's in 2050. Automatic driving technology might be standard by then. It's hard to imagine what cars will be capable of doing by that time.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    All electric with high speed wireless charging. Never worry about fuel - your car charges wirelessly while you are home, getting groceries, at the movies, at a rest stop etc.

    I will be almost 90 and driving to the store once a week in a 30 year old Miata with a stick shift. It will take me longer to get in and out of the car than it does to get to the store but I won't care.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Sounds very diligent...too bad about the K&N air filter though...I really appreciate reading that little tidbit of info in an ad for a used vehicle or bike I am considering. As soon as I see K&N (air filter) (or any other aftermarket none OEM type performance enhancing air filter, I quickly can stroke that car off my list.

    Hmmm. I googled K&N filter problems and was rather surprised by the number of people who have in fact had problems with the K&N filter. Perhaps I am fortunate to not have had any problems. I clean and reoil the filter every June. Although I just did the filter, I think I may just listen to you and those who have written about their K&N problems and put an OEM filter in so as not to have problems in the future. I am not concerned about the cost, but put the K&N in for it's "claimed" performance and longevity. Thanks for pointing that out to me. I'd never heard anyone say anything like that about K&N before.
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    We are beginning to see the start of some mild downsizing in midsize cars in response to the demand from costumers and CAFE for higher mpg. Since the Accord is the car I know best, I'll use it as an example

    2008 Accord
    length: 194.9 inches
    weight: 3216
    mpg: 24 (by 2012 they'd gotten this up to 27)

    2013 Accord
    length: 191.4
    weight: 3192
    mpg: 30

    I wonder what the length and weight of the next generation of Accord might be? Maybe something like...?

    2018 Accord
    length: 188
    weight: 3000
    mpg: 34?

    Perhaps that's too much of a downsize, but that would put it close to where the 1998-2002 Accord was:

    1998 Accord
    length: 188.8
    weight: 3000
    but back in those days the epa combined mpg was only 22

    If they do downsize by c.3 inches in length and 200 lbs in weight for 2018, they might be able to go to a 2.2 liter engine while still giving the same peppy acceleration of the current model. A 3 liter V-6 with variable cylinder use could still be kept for the sports sedan people.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    From what I have read the issues with K & N type filters are over oiling can ruin the MAF sensor, and they really only work better at high rpms.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    The tech is highly flawed and they don't want to take on the liability of "accidents." Probably over 100 years away in my opinion.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    That's ridiculous. Sounds like the Big 3 apologists that state if you do the maintenance they are fine.

    No they are not! I did all the maintenance on my Dodge, and it still met the tow truck just about every year of ownership.

    These are the same people that said the Big 3 would never go bankrupt.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,293
    What mid size sedan do you drive?
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    That's ridiculous. Sounds like the Big 3 apologists that state if you do the maintenance they are fine.

    I totally agree that it sounds like the Big 3 apologists. I drove a Chrysler product (government owned) for 3 years. It had more in repair bills (under warranty) than the original sticker price.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Good grief people - it's not 1980.
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