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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    The Chrysler I am referring to was not from the 1980s.
  • I don't consider any current Dodge products as competitive mid-size sedans, and neither does the automotive community.

    What I was getting at is that Toyota now enjoys a loyal group of customers that feel Toyota's have a reliability edge over all other manufacturers, and that is simply not true.

    The current Camry holds no reliability advantage over the Accord and the rest of the serious contenders at this point. In the past, sure, I will concede that Honda's and Toyota's were far better cars. That is why they are still top contenders, but Toyota's recent resting on their laurels is showing.
  • I don't buy that. As a matter of fact many car's come with K&N drop-ins as standard equipment, and not just expensive sports cars.

    My 94 SHO had one stock, for example.

    My roommate at the time was a Jiffy Lube store manager, and he went to clean my injectors and told me the intake looked like brand new after 44 k of my driving, plus the 50 k the previous owner had on it.
  • http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/students-self-driving-car-tech-wins-intel-scie- nce-fair-1C9977186

    That is a price cut of $71,000 off Google's system!

    I really do think self drive will be out by 2025, if only in certain areas with less risk and where tunnel vision can develop in human beings, like the arrow straight roads of the South West.

    For folks who think the technology will not trickle down enough so the average consumer can afford it in 12 years? Well, 12 years ago traction control, stability control, Bluetooth, rear view camera's, voice activation, throttle by wire, and GPS were all not available to the average consumer. Now every mid size sedan has all of those things.

    The self -drive technology is already legal in Nevada, and I don't think that legislation was passed so that we could wait another 50 years.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    We've been here before so no point in rehashing. Yours and my mileage varies. So does other people's..
    But in your own words, "Not very many people are as meticulous with their cars as I am."

    I wish I could find the pics I took of the 'clean' side of the air box on my vfr after checking it just a 1000 miles after installing a K&N after having drank the kool-aid.

    There was a surprising amount of dirt stuck to air box intake trac, that the OEM filter had not allowed to happen in 7000 miles. And no, it was not due to an install or filter lip flaw and seal.

    That was it for me, and I've never looked back. I think people become swayed by very influential advertising that became necessary due to slacking sales from poor feedback that has escalated since internet has been in more wide-spread use. But regardless, it really is not complicated...anything that lets more air in, lets more dirt in. I'm not sure why some find this so hard to grasp.

    Some system designs will work better than others. Maybe your SHO was one of those. And just because your mechanic said things looked clean, do we really know that they were? Does he 'sell' K&N's? Does he 'rebuild' engines that wear? Do these practices perhaps help support his business?

    I am curious which new cars "come" with a drop-in K&N? They wouldn't happen to be models that are reputed to be ones that have an extra intimate relationship with their dealer maintenance and service dept would they?
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    The TRD air filter was an option offered to me when I bought my venza. I've been told it is made by K&N.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Here is a quick link that came up when I checked what you said. I can only assume that had you gone with that filter and had you not adhered to proven service maintenance schedules, they would use that to not honor a potential wty claim. To be honest I am surprised any dealer would offer an air filter that filters fewer particles than the OEM mass produced filter. Of course there are a lot of differing dealer practices out there. Some are amazing and some are blatant crooks that shouldn't be in business and some are in between.

    YMMV - it is almost a certainty that if a piece of helpful info is shared on a car forum, there will be yeas and nays and each side of the fence will attempt to defend their position. Sometimes you get false info..sometimes you get correct info. It is up to the reader to take in all findings and judge for themselves who is correct. Sometimes the right answer sits atop that fence. And if all else fails, common sense should prevail.

    http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/performance-tuning/256000-trd-air-filter-good-b- ad-idea.html

    "main thing, stay away from oiled filters.........they can kill the MAF sensor, properly oiled or not.

    back in the day I had them kill 2 celica MAFs and 2 maxima MAFs"

    and the next guy didn't agree

    and the next guy argued that..

    and so on and so on.. :sick:
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    I'm with you on it. I took my K&N out last evening. I guess the only reason TRD filters are available as an option from the manufacturer is to make that extra couple of bucks from the consumer who wants a TRD (most likely K&N manufactured) filter. I take good care of my stuff and if I'd have known about the problems caused by oiled filters I'd never have put one in and certainly wouldn't have been giving them away as presents for years.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I hear ya..

    I think what is built in to many us, especially us in particular..us being us here on a car forum, is that we are naturally enthusiasts to one degree or another. Otherwise we probably wouldn't be here..or certainly not the ones who return often, which again is most of us here.
    And as enthusiasts our basic character when it comes to vehicles, is our incessant desire to tinker, or make better...make it more ours if you will. And as men, we have all the goods to make us want to be better, faster, stronger than the next guy..and so it goes..

    No offense to any women here though, who may like to tune too :)
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    BTW- Thank you.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Hey, you're quite welcome :thumb up:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.

    That, indeed, has been what formed the reputation back two decades ago. Lots of folks bought and were scared to take their cars anywhere but the dealership for service. They followed every little suggestion and the good maintenance made the reliability reputation. And sometimes things were replaced under warranty or recall without the owners' realizing it. So the owners didn't realize there had been a problem item--helps the reputation.

    Folks buying US-based brands had less commitment to the dealer and less committment to the service schedule. That leaves things not replaced, not serviced, and not noticed at the mechanic (dealership) before they later became problems.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I don't think so. I pay the same amount of attention to any car I get. Fact is, I've had much better results buying Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Mazda than GM or Chrysler. So those are the brands I buy. I'm sure that's the experience of most people in the US car market. They buy what has worked well for them and don't repeat what hasn't.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >I don't think so.

    I don't think you're right. I have a different opinion.

    >I'm sure that's the experience of most people in the US car market.

    That's also your opionion to which you are welcome just as I'm welcome to have my opinion based on things that I have observed through the decades.

    >They buy what has worked well for them and don't repeat what hasn't.

    There are different types of buyers. Some study what's there and decide what they choose to buy. Others buy based on historical and word-of-mouth reliability opinions as to what a current car purchase will do in the future.

    I've stood next to the service mnager (not writer, manager) as he told what was wrong with cars brought in far too late at the GM dealership, and then when something has deteriorated to a large repair folks are disappointed and blame the car rather than the lack of earlier, regular servicing which is their fault.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Sounds like a bunch of excuses from this service manager. I never bring any of my cars back to a dealership for anything not under warranty or a recall, whether it was a Chevy or a Honda. I do all the maintenance and repairs myself, and that's why I can say the Honda vehicles are just made better, with better materials, and more intelligence. Often, you will have to fix things on a Chevy multiple times, simply because it was designed poorly, or made of inferior materials. That's just the way it is.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    We must use different service managers. My service manager said the reasons the imports were popular included: American cars were poorly designed, poorly built, and it was the hope of the company to at least meet the "minimum standards" on some of the cars they were sending to the dealership; he said the UAW acted like an extortion ring by forcing the company to make decisions that no sensible management team would ever make and if they didn't comply the union would simply go on strike or damage factory equipment; he suggested that the heavy use of drugs and alcohol by the overpaid and incompetent union workers on the job often led to poor workmanship and that quite often the vehicles were deliberately sabotaged at the factory; he said the vehicles would often have poor fitting and poorly aligned / misfit parts and that quite often the vehicles would have rust on them while sitting on the showroom floors. He suggested that the Japanese did well because instead of hoping that "some" of their cars would meet minimum standards, they took the approach of asking if they could do anything better to improve their product. He thought the increased build quality, enhanced reliability and better fuel economy in the Japanese cars led the American public to be willing to pay more for the imports than they would pay for American cars. He, of course, has been in the business longer than I have been alive and is acknowledged as an expert in his field by those who know him.
  • gene84gene84 Member Posts: 9
    The fact is some years back I remember reading that Toyota spends more on R&D than GM & Ford combined. I think that Honda spends money on R&D also. Toyotas & Hondas are just made better because of the "up-front" work they do. Over the past 60 years, I've owned both Toyotas, Hondas, Chevys, Dodge/Chryslers & Fords and that has been my experience.
  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Wayne

    Fat, sloppy ,lazy Americans lol... But very true . the unions have a strong hold on how things are done in Detroit probably for the worst.

    The American car companies are building better cars today..... thank god... but there not there yet... until American cars can compete with the [non-permissible content removed] there not getting my hard earned money. We are the number 1 country in this world.. We invent and Create here . Other countries steal our good work. There is no reason why our American cars should not be world class leading.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited August 2013
    >But very true . the unions have a strong hold on how things are done in Detroit probably for the worst.

    Yup. And those unions are still in control after the silly reformat in bankruptcy the government gave GM. Shoulda put the unions in zero and let them try to renegotiate. The high cost of the unions helped slow the US-based companies down. Add to that GM's management's lack of effort and competency at times through the last 40 years, and you have someone who shot themselves in the foot. They did put out some cars that were not as good as they should have been.

    But as the original poster, CSKI, to whom I was replying had said, the foreign companies were much more successful at getting the owners and the car back into the dealership and keeping them up-to-date on recalls and fixes as well as regular maintenance. (>"I recently started researching just what makes the Toyota Camry (and Corolla) so reliable. I found Toyota mechanics that said it is mainly the owner, and his willingness to perform scheduled maintenance.")

    I recall listening to a radio talk host several years ago discussing the success of the foreign mass brands with 3 principles or general managers from dealerships in a major city near here. The dealership experience was a big factor in the success of the car sale and then a successive sale to that individual. The US brands in the Midwest here tended to be older because the stores had existed longer than from 1980s and the attitudes tended to be older. Now the GM stores are being refurbished or built new at almost every store around this area. And they are taking on a uniform appearance in terms of color and general style. I was recently inside a new Buick store in Fairfield that looked more like an upscale shopping mall. Even the car prep and service area was light colored floor with white walls. Don't know if the floor was tile or not like the sales area.

    >There is no reason why our American cars should not be world class leading.

    Exactly right.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    Although I totally disagree with your premise about care at the dealerships (I was alive, healthy and well-informed at that time and I had a brother who worked for Chevrolet for many years that would concur with my disagreeing with them... in fact, he'd say they were laughable statements), but I certainly agree that there is no reason why our American cars should not be world class leading. Our American cars, whether they are built in Mexico, Canada or Dearbornistan certainly have a significant advantage in that they (not ford) were saved from their utter failure by the US taxpayer. Over 40 percent of Chrysler is owned by the UAW (United Auto Workers) and GM will never repay the total amount of money they got from the government. (btw - GM's execs were no doubt accurate when they said "the future of GM is in China".) With that kind of advantage over the competition there really should be no reason we don't make the best of the best. Competition is tough and if you can't compete you're out of the game... unless the government bails you out.
  • mlevinemlevine Member Posts: 581
    I hope American car companies get the big picture one day. Had a GM tahoe 10 years ago, great engine otherwise poor quality. When Mercedes Benz and Chyrsler had joint venture about 5 years ago, Mercedes Benz quality was terrible. There is an old movie with MIchael Keaton and MImi Rogers about american auto workers out of work, with a Japanese auto company taking over the factory. A must see that explains everthing.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited August 2013
    I am not anti-American car, but I would never again consider buying one built at a UAW plant. I may be a slow learner, but after 5 losers in a row I finally put my wallet before my patriotism. To put it another way - after Hell freezes over for the second time, I would consider "looking at" a UAW-built car.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Not to be a PC nanny...but I believe the term [non-permissible content removed] is now considered an offensive/ethnic slur.

    But otherwise, I do agree with your statements...never having owned an American vehicle (American company vehicle that is...) I plan to put a few on my list next time I'm in the market.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I wasn't referring to a Chrysler/Dodge from the 80's either.

    Chrysler's and Dodge's are still a sea of black dots in the April 2013 issue of CR. Okay, so the sea of black is also a sea of asterisks because so many models are discontinued every few years.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    When Mercedes Benz and Chrysler had joint venture about 5 years ago, Mercedes Benz quality was terrible. ______________________

    I remember the same exact thing. It was like Chrysler infected Benz with the poor quality bug. I predicted it too.

    It turns out some perceive that I can get greater and better retribution and revenge against Chrysler not by boycotting Mercedes for their former association, but by buying a new Mercedes now.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • I have read that too Wayne. The same thing happens on the repair end. I am very close friends with a life-long certified GM mechanic, and if you into a dealership for service and start a scene, the mechanics do things like add "bonus" weights to your wheels, screw with your fluids, and other such gratuitous sabotage.
    I am extra friendly to the service department guys, and I try to build relationships with them and keep my mouth shut when I want to be Mr-know-it-all, which as you all know is hard for me!
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Member Posts: 16,373
    While I've read tons of press & have seen lots of ads on TV for the 2014 Mazda 6, I haven't seen too many around. This morning I moved over to let a 2014 Mazda 6 Grand Touring pass me. The Bi-Xenon Lights really give the car a finished, aggressive look. It was sharp looking for sure.

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2022 Wrangler Sahara 4Xe, 2023 Toyota Tacoma SR 4WD

  • brian125brian125 Member Posts: 5,244
    Sorry to say but Chrysler/Dodge will never see another penny from me in this life time. Along with alot of american brands.

    23 Telluride SX-P X-Line, 23 Camry XSE

  • mlevinemlevine Member Posts: 581
    I believe US car makers should follow the lead that foreign car makers do in their factories. There are a lot of american plants producing European cars. The examples include BMW SUV plant in South Carolina and MB SUV plant in Alabama. I believe it is non union, and the workers do well. Quality control is better.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Perception often lags behind the truth. This is for 2010 model year vehicles. The difference between Lincoln in 2nd place and Chrysler in 27th place is 4 additional problems out of 1000 vehicles (11 problems versus 15 problems in those 10000 vehicles). Lots of Ford and GM models in the top 3 in each class as well. Like I said - it's not 1980 any more.

    https://pictures.dealer.com/j/jdpower/1048/d113c91c0a0d02b701d3ac6eb051e9f9.jpg
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    "Foreign manufacturers" in the US include: VW in TN; Nissan in MS and TN; Toyota in KY, IN and TX; Hyundai in AL; Honda/Acura OH; BMW in SC; KIA in GA; Mercedes in AL; Subaru in IN. They all seem to be doing well and none have gone union. I have visited the Hyundai plant in Montgomery and spoken with some of the workers there. They seem delighted not only to have a job, but to be working for Hyundai and not having a union. The plant was spotless and it seemed that Hyundai took very good care of the employees.

    Many of the Big 3 autos are made in Mexico, Canada or elsewhere. I looked at a new Camaro when they first came back out. Advertised as the "American muscle car", it had a drivetrain built in Mexico and was assembled in Canada (same line as the Impala IIRC). I think if the manufacturer was to tell the union they will no longer take $$ from the paychecks and give it to the union, but required the individuals to make individual payments of their own to the union we would see how many people REALLY want to belong to the union.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    I'd rather read posts about mid size sedans that are driven, owned or not.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    I don't agree. These minor but informative off topic posts usually don't last but a page, and offers insight into the posters that post their opinion, that you can use and compare when they make comments about mid-sized sedans. A bit of levity within a topic forum is appreciated by me and I suspect others too.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Point out some levity you've seem posted here lately.
    Maybe I don't know what the word means, but I do.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Yes, you are correct, I meant leeway..pardon my brain detachment...thanking you in advance..
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    Agreed.

    I recall comparing two sets of JD Power reports a few years back. A new Audi had the same reliability as Toyota's did 5 years earlier.

    Still, the newer Toyota was ranked higher, but if 5 years ago it was cream of the crop the new Audi seemed pretty-reliable even if not ranked the highest.
  • gmanusmcgmanusmc Member Posts: 699
    I'll second that thought - I'm a lurker in this thread but I sometimes laugh out loud when I hear what you folks say and your stories of previous experiences. Count me as someone who doesn't mind some off topic back and forth once in awhile.

    Bill G
    2016 ES350 Lux/Atomic Silver
    2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
  • Thanks for your input. If you have a mid size sedan, please let us know about your experiences.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited August 2013
    I am going on vacation Sunday, about a 450 mile road trip each way. (DC to Myrtle/Southport NC). I bought my car in late December, 2011, and I have 20,000 miles on her. The drivers side is 24" and the passenger side is 18".

    What do you guys think about wiper blade changes? I use Rain-X on all my windows, and the current blades seem to be cleaning OK. There are so many opinions out there that I am not sure what the right move is. They tend to degrade slowly, so I may be really surprised at how much better new ones perform.

    There are daily thunderstorms down there, and I remember many trips where it rained so hard we had to pull off the road as vision dropped to zero.

    I am leaning towards Rain-X blade style units....so if anyone has those installed let me know what you think.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    I have yet to see one of the road, but the closest Mazda dealer is 45 miles away from me....and another one about 50 miles in the other direction. I know all too well because I bought my last Mazda (2012 CX-9) from one but have it serviced at the other because they're faster and more convenient.

    Actually, I was at my servicing dealer yesterday with the CX-9. Quick sidebar- If you ever take your car thru an automatic car wash and you have Rain-sensing wipers, MAKE sure that they are OFF!!! The Service Manager was kind enough to replace both wiper arms under Warranty....

    While they were replacing the wiper arms, I went to the showroom and didn't see a single salesman...but literally 10 seconds later, three were almost running from different directions to pounce! I announced loudly, "I'm just a Service Customer killing time....and two of them vanished, but one came over to chit-chat. We were less than 20 seconds into a conversation when I realized he was actually going to try the "Gee, your car's in for service? Maybe it's tiime to think about a new one?" But I stooped him cold and said, it's a 2012 CX-9 GT wih 12k miles on it getting an oil change" and he went away....I didn't feel the need to share my wiper issue...

    But then I spotted a friendly looking young fellow who hadn't jumped me and he smiled so I walked into his little glass cubicle/office. I asked him when they expected the 2014 Mazda3 to show up and he said they'd probably get a 'show' car late this month that was only for display. Then the inventory cars start arriving in late Sept.

    I also asked why they didn't have a new Mazda6 on the showroom floor (but wasted spacce with a Mazda2) and he said that every single one they've put in the showroom didn't last 48 hours before it was sold and they had to deal with getting it out and replacing the empty spot....then he said all of the Touring and Grand Touring Mazda6 models they get are selling in less than a week. He sold two last week while they were still on the car hauler. The Sport sells at a liittle slower rate, but still don't sit more than two weeks or so at most!

    And Mazda has stated that they're building them and loading them on ships as quickly as they can. The CX-5 SUV has been exceeded all expectations in terms of sales, so they're trying to build and ship them as fast as possible, too...

    Mazda's goal for the 2013 calendar year (for the 2014 model) was 30,000 units. At the end of July, they're at 25,115 so they'll hit their target no problem. I had originally expected them to sell 60k+ next year, which they might, but the 2014 Mazda3 will steal some of would-be 6 buyers when it shows up. It has the looks, moves and features on the Mazda6, like a 7/8 version of the larger car. I'm very anxious to see and drive the 2014 Mazda3 s 5-door which will have the same 2.5L SkyActive 184hp engine as the Mazda6 but weigh in at 500lbs less...with the 6AT, it is still expected to hit 60mph in 7.2 seconds....Zoom, zoom!
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    You've had your blades through one full summer. and 1/2 of another. Does your car sit outside at home or at work? That ages the blades the most.

    I used Rain-X and had it start streaking on my windshield. Tried to remove it. But I think it has deteriorated my blades along with sun. I usually replace blades with ANCO blades from Walmart every year on both cars.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • gmanusmcgmanusmc Member Posts: 699
    Currently drive a Civic, but am considering going back to an accord sometime after the 2014s come out - that's why I've been watching this thread - lots of good info. Have owned a number of accords in the past - all great cars that were low maintenance and always provided dependable transportation - nothing controversial to report.

    Bill G
    2016 ES350 Lux/Atomic Silver
    2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
  • benjaminhbenjaminh Member Posts: 6,311
    On a recent 100 mi hwy trip between Louisville and Cincinnati in our 2013 Accord CVT, we got 36.8 mpg with AC on, 65-75 mph. Even hit some traffic. That's about 7 mpg more than we'd get with our 2008 Accord on a trip like this.
    2018 Acura TLX 2.4 Tech 4WS (mine), 2018 Honda CR-V EX AWD (wife's)
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    You should be looking to replace wiper blades around once a year. I usually wait until they streak badly. If you take a soft rag with rubbing alcohol and slide it up and down the edge you will clean off an amazing amount of dirt. That can make even newer blades work poorly. It can refresh your older ones as well.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Louisville and Cincinnati in our 2013 Accord CVT

    Have you experienced any problems with your CVT? That has been one of the cars I'm watching for the replacement, midsized or smaller, for two cars I have.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    "I think Honda makes great engines - although they seem to be having problems with the 6 cyl VCMs burning oil - but they have never really made a great transmission. Historically, this has been the weak point in Hondas - the transmissions."

    That's not exactly true. The 3-speed and 4-speed versions of the Hondamatic served hundreds of thousands very well for many miles! Especially the Accords thru 1997 and Civic at least thru 2000. The '86-'89 Accords (LXi models, in particular) were known for shifting VERY firmly (in cold weather, it might jar your teeth during a full-throttle downshift) but they were still rock solid. The '86-'87 LXi and '85.5-'87 Prelude Si were the ones that would throw you thru the windshield with each shift, but the '88-'89 LXi wasn't nearly as abrupt even though it had an extra 10hp (120hp total). My theory is that they didn't adequately adjust or tweak the transmission as the Accord (and 'Lude) engines gained hefty bumps in power during those years.

    Since 2000-ish, the 5-speed automatic has been a nightmare from hell....and the V6/5AT combo in any Honda/Acura was akin to playing Russin Roulette! I have a cousin who works for North American Honda HQ in Torrance, CA. I know for a fact that the conservative estimate for the total number of A/T failures on 2000-2005 models is AT LEAST 1.1 million!!! And Honda only warrantied 640k of those....

    Meanwhile, my dad's 2004 Accord LX 2.4L/5AT just passed the 240k mark and the original 5AT still shifts like new....

    I was a Honda/Acura devotee for 17 years and never foresee owning another one for several reasons, one being the way they ignored the massive A/T failures! Only the owners who were willing to raise sheer HELL got warranty replacements past the 36k warranty...Soichiro Honda would roll over in his grave or urn or whatever he's in.....
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    We've had ours for 6 months now and absolutely love it. Quiet, smooth, and wonderful gas mileage. I haven't owned a 2000s era Honda but I know lots of people who have and have had great experiences with them. They get very high ratings from Consumer Reports too. I wasn't worried at all about reliability; I wanted a car that would also have a lot of nice features, which Honda didn't have much of in the 2000s. They sure do now.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    I was curious so I did a little research and found out that there was a recall in 2004 covering mostly vehicles with. v6 engines: the Acura MDX and TL, the v6 Accord, and the Odyssey and Pilot. 4 cyl engines were not affected, which would be all Civics and most Accords. Since your dads Accord was a 4 cyl it behaved the way we expect most Hondas to: dependable and long-lasting.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    I replace mine when they start streaking or in the fall with OEM blades from the Ford dealer. Usually about $20 a pair.
    One interesting feature some of them have is a plastic dot on then that turns yellow when it's time to replace them.
    If they are working ok and I'm at the dealer for service, I just peel off the dot so the service writer doesn't tell me they need replacing.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I'm sure it was just a typo, but the problem rate is out of 100, not 1000, a discrepancy of a factor of 10! One way to put it is that the most reliable cars still have less than 1/2 as many problems as the poor reliability brands. That's a huge massive difference in my honest opinion.

    The more reliable comes off as an attempt at quality, the less reliable comes off as an attempt to rip off the consumer.

    JD Power only measures reliability of nearly new cars. Add another 3 years to those cars and suddenly the problem rates skyrocket by another factor of 10 in those problem vehicles. Get back to me when JD Powers measures 6 or 9 year old vehicles.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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