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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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  • vservser Posts: 48
    In my crazy opinion, the fusion AWD feels tighter than the accord. The interior is sportier, with a great sound system. Seems like honda is honda, but big issues w their sound system and infotainment setup. Both cars have ample acceleration. Fwiw the fusion is more exp too.
  • vservser Posts: 48
    Crazy features. Rain sensing wipers, auto high beams, cooled seats, 12 speaker Sony stereo, remote start. Tough decision for me.
  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 3,070
    edited September 2013
    My thoughts................ I have the V-6 accord its fast and tight. Accord is a little bigger inside and feels to me more upscale than the fusion. The radio is terrible in the accord the radio sounds like its playing out of tin speakers. Gas and resale are better on the accord. The Accord is a better buy than the mazda and fusion. I would test drive all 3 and consider the resale value and tech features in the accord which should win you over. Forward front crash det/ side view mirror camera/ back up camera/ lane watch detection. Pandora feature.

    Another problem with the fusion is the door pillars are very wide its hard to see sometimes when turning. I rented a 2012 fusion for a week and hated it.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • benjaminhbenjaminh Posts: 1,785
    The Accord is faster, gets higher safety ratings, and gets better mpg. The Fusion has a better top end sound system, and may have the other advantages talked about. Many people like the looks of the Fusion better. Both are great cars. You probably can't go wrong. Buy what your heart and head tell you to get.

    Here's Car and Driver on the Accord V-6:

    "...our Touring example sprinted to 60 mph in 5.6 seconds and tripped the quarter-mile lights in 14.1 seconds at 101 mph. Those figures put it solidly ahead of all its competitors and into sports-sedan territory; the Accord ties our long-term, six-speed-manual BMW 328i to 60 and trumps that car in the quarter by 0.2 second and 1 mph...."

    http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2013-honda-accord-sedan-v-6-test-review
  • vservser Posts: 48
    Appreciate your oppinion. From what I've read and living in NJ, my prices to start at are for a 2014 v6 w Nav and touring are 27500 and 29500 (touring). Lmk if you think those numbers are good goals.
  • brian125brian125 New york / S.C. myrtle beachPosts: 3,070
    Auto-Sport honda in Bridge water Nj will sell for invoice on your model.
    If you buy at the end of the month you may be able to get vehicle for a little below invoice . Speak with the Int sales mgr. George tell him your my friend he will do the right thing by you. I'm in the Accord forum if you need me.

    I'll tell you this........... i read what benjaminh posted on the Accord ratings and reviews... if the Accord V-6 came in stick what a beast it would be for the money.. I think i would enjoy this car even more. What i dont like about this model Accord is---- its to low to the ground, to small inside for me I'm 6'1 240 and when you move drivers seat back it reclines down. outside of these few things i dont like the Accord is a homerun. Most of my driving is done in bmw X-5. I have had several suv's the last 10 years so i guess i like the fact of being higher up and having a better view of the road and its easier to get in and out of the SUv's.

    2013 Genesis 5.0 R-spec, 2013 Accord EXL V-6, 2012 BMW x-5, 2012 ML350

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    Same with the Optima EX. The stereo lacks bass response and I can tell the amp is probably only 15 watts per channel. The infotainment portion of the stereo is great though. It has USB, two AUX inputs, bluetooth, and Satellite radio.

    To make things worse, the rear speakers are in the doors, not in the deck lid, which would have greatly improved bass response. So, I checked out the rear deck, hoping there were pre-cut holes there for the higher-end SX Infinity system so I could add some speakers and an amp, but no dice.

    So, I added an Infinity 200 watt space saving powered sub-woofer in the trunk. Total cost including installation: $300. It takes up only 1 cubic ft of space, and fattened up the bass response. The stock stereo does have 6 speakers...so the sub addition very much solves the problem.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    The Fusion hybrid does have one of the best mpg ratings but it does cost quite a bit more than the 4cyl as does the Camry. Consumer Reports really likes it too. The MKZ hybrid is not as good deal a deal as the Ford.
    I'm sure Honda will price their hybrid just as high as Toyota whenever it finally arrives.

    However, Sonata hybrids can be had for about the same as the Sonata 4cyl Ltds even with the hybrid Ltd package. And the Hyundai hybrids have standard features not found on any other trim level of the Sonata.

    A poster on another forum reputedly got over $6K off msrp of the 2013 Sonata Hybrid Ltd last week probably because the 2014s will be at dealerships soon.

    No changes for the HSH powertrain for 2014 as it was extensively upgraded for my 2013 and I can personally attest to the improvements as I traded a 2011 for a 2013.
    We have never gotten less than 40 mpg after 6,000 miles on the new one.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,270
    Reviews of the Sonata Hybrid consistently complain about the brakes, the handling, and delays in the power delivery. Not a situation I would want in a brand-new vehicle. Add to that the reputation of Hyundai USA making exaggerated claims as to economy and their consistent lack of customer & warranty support when problems are encountered and I would be very wary of buying a tech-filled vehicle like the Hybrid from Hyundai.

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    I agree on the home-run aspect of the Accord. Folks who would like near sport sedan performance for a lot less than cars beginning with 3 or A will be happy with the EX-L V6, and many will be pleased to have a real 6 speed automatic instead of the CVT is lesser Accords.

    The Accord V6 Coupe is available is available with a stick, and will make many sports car owners think twice before initiating a friendly stoplight sprint.

    The Mazda 6 is a great choice too for a drivers car, perhaps the best as far a steering is concerned, but it's lack of an optional higher horsepower engine mean those looking for more zoom-zoom are shopping elsewhere. Mazda was supposed to add a 2.2 liter twin- turbo Diesel motor with an impressive 310 lb ft of torque, but I has now been delayed until late spring due to EPA certification problems.

    However, while powerful, the Mazda diesel would most likely not be a high performance choice comparable with V6 Accords, turbo Son-optima's, and even the Malibu with it's 260 hp and 295 lb ft. turbo 4.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    I really like my Fusion, it's a Titanium with everything except driver assist package(something like that).
    The 2.0 has more power than I need and delivers good mileage.
    I'm averaging about 29 mpg overall.
    You need to try several different cars and figure out which one works best for you.
    My BIL thinks it's too narrow inside, but I fit in it just fine.
    At some point, you mentioned AWD. None of the other cars being discussed here have that available.
    I had a 2007 Fusion AWD and it was excellent in bad weather. If you compare FWD and AWD Fusions back to back, you will see they drive very differently.
  • Agreed, Toyota has gotten too big for its britches. I own a 2001 Camry and I'm looking for a replacement. It seems like I'd be THE guy that Toyota would be courting for a new car but I've got nothing from them.

    I had a dispute over a repair charge (an electrical problem that was solved with a new battery). I had to tell them that I'd bought that battery within the last 48 months, so it's on warranty and the cost is pro-rated, right? The guy behind the counter says in a disgusted tone, "Yeah." Then their charge was $50 higher than I thought it should be (and $50 higher than their quote). When I got a survey mailed to me and downgraded the Service Dept. based on this experience, I expected some sort of feedback or explanation or something. Not that want to make a federal case over a $50 dispute, but I was disappointed to hear back NOTHING.

    Toyota doesn't think that they need to reach out to me, it's my JOB to come back to them and buy an overpriced vehicle. I don't think so, Toyota. The Camry has been a very good car but their customer service sucks, so I'll be looking elsewhere this time around. They're indifferent, so I don't care if they don't. Have a nice life, Toyota.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    My next door neighbor brought home his new S60 late yesterday.
    This morning someone backed into it in a parking lot, damaging both left side doors.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 1,016
    Everyone's nightmare! A colleague at work didn't engage her brake properly and her Honda rolled backward into my brand new one! Fortunately, neither car had so much as a scratch. The bumper was resting on my front license plate.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    None of the other cars being discussed here have that available.

    The Legacy does of course. It is often overlooked in the mid-sized field but has a lot going for it besides AWD. FE is not very competitive but it does have the AWD while no other cars in this field do. Also it's a near-twin of the new Accord to my eyes, from the side. In fact, when I saw a Legacy the other day I had to look twice to tell it was a Legacy and not the new Accord.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    I know the Legacy has AWD, but this is the first time it was mentioned as an alternative to what started out as 'Accord or Fusion?'
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Your post re cars "being discussed here" wasn't very clear if you were talking only about the Accord and Fusion, or about all cars being discussed HERE, i.e. in this discussion on Mid-Sized Sedans.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 9,930
    It doesn't hurt to read what's being discussed. ;)
  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited September 2013
    Some of those concerns was pretty evident in the 2011 and 2012 HSHs, especially jerky cold starts. Since we live less than a mile from a 4 lane and its 9 miles to town and a stoplight, my spouse and I never consistently experienced the jerkiness with our 2011.

    As far as braking, we put over 50K on the 2011 and they always worked fine.

    When I test drove the 2013 Sonata Hybrid (8 miles on ODO) ice cold in city traffic with lots of stop-and-go, I could immediately tell the major upgrades to the hybrid power train got rid of all drive-ability concerns reviewers of the 2011 and 2012 models mentioned. I traded for it two days later.

    And while the 2011 HSH landed on Consumer Reports used cars to avoid, the 2012 with the same power train received a better-than-average used car verdict.

    After 6,000 miles with the vastly improved 2013, I expect to see it garner CRs highest used car rating. Just amazing acceleration at interstate speeds and a second-and-a-half quicker 0 to 60 than the previous version, comparable with the Fusion h.

    It also got a good review from Car & Driver so fuggettabout those old reviews.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    I would really, really, really not want any "driver assistance".

    I have read many reviews stating that the alert chimes were so annoying that the first thing the driver did was turn the electronic nannies off.

    Plus, many of us already have a free alert system. It is called a spouse, and I really wish I could turn that off too.

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    Kia "service" isn't any better. I had to visit the dealer 3 times for them to replace the center console lid-latch. Imagine if it was a transmission!

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    Here is what Edmund's had to say about the 2013 Sonata hybrid:

    "These updates should add up to a better Sonata Hybrid, but it's still facing stiff competition from the similarly priced 2013 Ford Fusion Hybrid (47 mpg combined EPA rating) and 2013 Toyota Camry Hybrid (41 mpg combined), which offer higher mpg ratings and a more refined driving experience. If the bottom line is important to you, keep in mind that the conventional Hyundai Sonata is a better value than the hybrid sedan, as it costs several thousand dollars less and has a respectable 28 mpg combined rating"

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    edited September 2013
    Car & Driver on the HSH:

    The 2013 Sonata hybrids acceleration and fuel-economy improvements are quantifiable and worth mentioning, but the cars better-integrated drivability makes a significant difference.

    We already liked the smooth electric drive-off feel and the fact that the Sonata hybrid forgoes the usual wheezy CVT for a more-pleasing six-speed step-gear automatic, but Hyundai really hit the books to work out the kinks and smooth transitions between electric and gas-engine hybrid modes.

    The clutch that takes the place of the torque converter engages more quickly; its interval, according to Hyundai powertrain director John Juriga, decreased from 1.0 to 0.7 second. The goal was for good response with no untoward delays or bumpy transitions.
  • akirbyakirby Posts: 7,740
    You can turn off the spouse, too but it's usually a very expensive and lengthy process.
  • ab348ab348 Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, CanadaPosts: 2,270
    I wonder how much it would cost to turn off krypto's shilling for Hyundai?

    2014 Cadillac ATS4 2.0T, 1968 Oldsmobile Cutlass S Holiday Coupe

  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    LOL :)

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,769
    Yes, for someone like my wife and me who don't put more than about 8k miles on her Sonata a year, the price premium of the hybrid over the GLS is hard to justify unless you want some of the other features in the hybrid. I get upper 30s mpg on the highway with the GLS, mid 20s in town. These cars can be had for ~$18-19k new. (We are paying $47/month for a 3-year lease with 0 out of pocket, but did trade in a beat up 2007 Sonata GLS.)

    But it's not just the Sonata hybrid where the math doesn't work out for me... over 9 years ago I nearly bought a then-all-new Prius hatchback, but it took too long to deliver so I started looking at alternatives and found a car about the same size (Elantra GT hatchback) with more features (moonroof, leather, 8-way drivers seat etc.) for $9k less. We still own it, put about 7-8k miles per year on it (my son does anyway). That $1000 a year more than paid for the entire gas bill for the Elantra over its lifetime. Plus I really enjoyed the moonroof and adjustable driver's seat when I was driving the car.
  • At least one of Krypto's recent posts reminded me that I need to make an appointment with my optometrist. I apparently have been missing those "eye catching" front and rear lights.
  • cskicski West Springfield, VAPosts: 1,326
    It was the interior of the Optima that really won me over verses the Sonata. I think Kia really worked hard on this car, kind of a make-it-or break-it all out effort, and it really paid off.

    Like I have said before, I still get stopped at the grocery store/Walmart by folks who love the way it looks, and after I tinted the windows and added mud-guards, a factory spoiler, and gloss black b-pillar trim, it really looks like a car costing thousands more.

    The Sonata just didn't have the features that I love in cars, like the fog lights and dual exhaust for the same money.

    If anyone has any doubt of the cars beauty, here is my car so you can see for yourself. http://imgur.com/a/gadqq#OoEzbW7

    Chris Skalski: Network Engineer 2012 Kia Optima EX

  • kyrptokyrpto Posts: 216
    Response to ab348 complaint about MPG ratings:

    As to the mpg exaggeration, Hyundai Corp voluntarily - I’ll repeat that for emphasis - VOLUNTARILY sent 2011 and 2012 owners Visa cash cards based on their cars’ mileage. MPG estimates for the vastly improved 2013 also appear to be underrated and these cars do not qualify for rebates. More on that below.
    I do not recall Ford MC doing this when they also got caught over estimating MPG on certain models (CR found that the Lincoln MKZ hybrid mpg was off its EPA rating by a whopping 11 mpg).

    I got just shy of $200 from them before trading in my 2011 which we consistently got 37 - 39 mpg year round. All us owners had to do was get the mileage verified @ a dealership. They came promptly - my second Visa card came in slightly less than two weeks after verification at an oil change.
    Also note that is good for the life of the car for the original owner.

    Following info on Hyundai MPG Estimates comes verbatim from a 2013 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Overview on HybridCars.com:

    Hyundai downgraded the 2012 Sonata Hybrids by 1 mpg on their EPA estimates.
    In question now is whether, having been chastened by its lessons, and sending the Sonata Hybrid back to the drawing board, the 2013s may possibly under promise but over deliver.
    The MPG advertising number game is a big part of the marketing for these cars, and Ford was similarly caught short with its “47 mpg” Fusion Hybrid.

    We pressed Hyundai for details as to whether these specs add up to more than the conservative upticks in EPA estimates suggest. The last time Hyundai was accused of overpromising, it fully admitted its overstepping the bounds, and immediately got busy updating the cars to make good in full.

    We asked whether instead of overstating mileage its self-certification for EPA numbers might be holding back a little in a more conservative stance?

    Hyundai would not directly answer this pointed question, but Senior Manager, Midwest Product Public Relations Miles Johnson merely said, “All I can say is I can’t wait for you to drive it.”
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