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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    On Honda Accord heating and cooling are separate, below the radio screen. It will be interesting to see how these new electronic features hold up over time.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    Thanks for making a great effort, but I'm sorry to say I have no clue what you are trying to tell me. Didn't we used to just have to use [i] and [/i]?

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    If you have a PC, open Notepad so you can make a draft of a sentence or a word.
    If it's a Mac, then open Text Edit...same as Notepad.

    Now go to where your comma is on the keyboard. But hit shift so you can type the upper case comma button. It is a 'less than' symbol. Or is it 'greater than' I always get those mixed up. No matter..just type these in order as I'm saying.

    So do the upper case comma, then the 'i' on the keybd. Then hit the upper case 'period' which will give you the 'greater than' symbol. Then type any word you want. No spaces. I used the word 'italic' but it doesn't matter what word you choose. Now at the end of that word, do an upper case the comma. Then a forward slash symbol..as in: / then type a lower case 'i', then an upper case period. Save that one little line (which is basically a code) to your desktop or wherever you find it easy to reference to anytime you want to post on Edmunds and reference someone's post. You have just manually created a code that used to be done automatically when the italic symbol icons were working here. This also works if you want to Bold, etc . With Bold, you would use a 'b' instead of an 'i'.

    Now if you want to use it, copy that entire line into your message body on Edmunds. Now all you do is copy whatever the quote is you want to reference from a persons post and 'paste' it (i.e. replace your chosen word...let's say it's 'italic' in between the italic symbols I described here in order. Now their entire quote will show up italicized when you post your post.

    - upper case the comma
    - i
    - upper case the period
    - insert the quoted text you want to reference
    - upper case the comma
    - /
    - i
    - upper case the period
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited September 2013
    Didn't we used to just have to use [i] and [/i]?

    Yes but instead of using [ ] use the upper case comma and upper case period....(the greater than and less than symbols).
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    Oh, now I see what you were trying to say. I would have got it the first time if you used the less than/greater than nomenclature. The references to the comma totally confused me.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    If touch screen interface was such a great idea for controlling a vehicle's functions, then windshield wipers and turn signal indicators wouldn't continue to use a physical mechanically moving switch or knob/lever.

    Hey, it works!! :)

    The function you described was written about by Bob Lutz in his book about Car Guys and Bean Counters. Apparently the original version of the Buick Lacrosse that was in development when he arrived at GM was trying to do exactly that, except using voice commands for all the driver's major functions. It was, of course, a disaster, especially given the technology of 10 years ago.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    edited September 2013
    There is so much technology packaged into vehicles these days I can appreciate the difficulty of designing an interface that makes sense. Smartphones have the same problem. I suppose that is why they often have multiple ways to do the same thing. But for some that just causes more confusion and anxiety.

    My Buick Regal is a 2011 so it does not have the touchscreen they now install on the current model, and it does not have any voice recognition unless you are using Onstar for dialing, etc. But even with what it does have it is still somewhat confusing to do certain things. When a call comes in once you have paired your phone using Bluetooth (which is done through a series of menus using a central control knob), you have a couple of ways to answer it. There is a button on the dash, and a button on the steering wheel. Both require you to look away from the road. The same holds true for the stereo. I had been using the knobs on the center stack for that but recently discovered (after nearly 2 years!) you can control volume, select different presets and maybe a few other things with some steering wheel buttons. I still find myself reaching for the center stack controls most often just because they seem to be more intuitive.

    I think even the best-designed interfaces will still confuse many people because they have a hard time getting their heads around the actual functionality. My difficulty using Apple's maps function is a good example of that - the interface is virtually non-existent and very minimalist, to the point where I don't know what I can or cannot do with it and don't care to be made to feel stupid by trying to figure it out through trial and error. I have the same problem with most of Google's interfaces on their services, which are minimalist to the extreme. Perhaps I am of the generation that needs a paper manual in one hand and the screen in front of me to figure out how to use this stuff, and of course that no longer happens. I have been reading articles about Apple's new iOS 7 for the iPhone and there are many negative reactions to the changes they made. Now instead of swiping this way, you have to swipe another way, or god-knows what else. None of it is particularly intuitive or well-documented, so they have people coping with that, as well as changes to learned behavior. Life is getting way too complicated!

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    I've posted this before.
    There is a difference between 'comfortable with' and 'intuitive'.
    I have several vehicles, some which have the 3 dial climate controls that everyone thinks are great.
    Guess what? The vehicles have the 3 dials in a different order from left to right.
    I can't just do a 'no look' reach and figure what the dial does.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You don't think that a brand holds ultimate responsibility for their choice of who distributes their product

    Not when the franchises were granted 30, 40 or 50 years ago and state law prohibits prevents them from taking action on bad dealers. You underestimate or don't understand the law.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited September 2013
    Maybe this will help:

    image
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited September 2013
    Yes, it does sound like Canada has better laws in place to prevent gross injustice.

    Check out these two links...just two of many in case these two don't reveal just how bad it can get...you can Google more on it if need be.

    It's one frig sorry state of affairs but fortunately justice was served in the end.

    http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/05/canadian-mazda-dealer-charges-woman-6- - 6000-for-mazda-6.html

    http://www.insidecaledon.com/news/201005920-orangeville-mazda-overprices-car-250- - 00-to-intellectually-disabled-woman/

    edit..forgot to mention...Mazda Cda so totally ripped them a new one..
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Thanks, Steve. Not sure how you got it to post the less/greater than symbols? Maybe hosts have privileges, haha
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Member Posts: 1,681
    It's typed out then posted as an image :)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Ahh, yes, of course..something I've not be able to do here yet. I have issues with hosting sites..or maybe I should say the pc does.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    That's why I included the img src code too. :D I mostly use tinypic.com to park an image for "hosting".

    Note that if you aren't replying to a post, the formatting buttons still work for most of us.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Just had the gas tank replaced in the Fusion.
    When I picked it up, it had a quarter tank of gas in it, although I dropped it off pretty much empty.
    My thought was, what if they just put some gas in it?
    I looked under the car today and there is a new tank, although it is hard to see due to the skid plate that covers most of it.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited September 2013
    I love the car except for the grill. Same with the Kia Cadenza...which sounds like "credenza" to me, making me think of furniture, not an entry level semi-luxury car.

    Consider the following results from the recent C&D large sedan comparo:

    6) Hyundai Azera - They said it is a gorgeous car (I agree) and was comfortable and very attractive inside. Suspension and steering was "a mess", mostly due to not enough structural rigidity on the altered Sonata platform it rides on.

    5) Kia Cadenza - The Cadenza was said to be also gorgeous but is based on the same Sonata/Optima platform and was also lacking in structural rigidity too, hurting handling.

    4) Charger - I don't think you would cross shop this car by the sound of your posts, and neither would I. Frankly it is only a player because of it's dimensions, and only in V6 form, and is rear drive, not front.

    3) I love the way it looks, but to me is still on a different mission than the Asian players. Built on same platform as Charger, and is rear drive.

    2) Chevy Impala - I can't believe I am digging an Impala, but I am. It is sleek and classy and is built on the Epsilon II platform it shares with the Caddy XTS and the Buick Lacrosse. I think it is better looking than the Avalon, and I like the interior, even though the IP binnacle cover looks like a mans hairpiece a bit. I like the giant icons on the infotainment system, as well as the hidden cubby behind the screen to hold valuables. Powerful V6. Skip the 4 banger. Go drive it before you choose vser.

    1) Toyota Avalon - C&D only complaint was they felt the seats were hard as a rock, a sentiment shared by all of the tester's. I don't like the grill. It looks like a fish. Ford got the big-grill look right. They found the back end attractive,(looks just like the Azera though).

    So, there you have it! :)
  • I bet you are glad that it is done! Let us know how it goes on your next fill up.
  • On the news this morning was a story about how the DOT keeps delaying implementation of laws passed by Congress (in 2007) requiring rear view camera and other backup warning devices to be mandatory in all vehicles by 2011. The delay has cost even more kids their lives unnecessarily, and some of those heartbroken parents have sued the DOT .

    Here is an excerpt from the story in the Washington Post this morning:

    "Patrick Ivison was holding his mother's hand as they strolled through a San Diego parking lot. They were only a step or two from being clear of a Ford Escort — but it suddenly backed up.

    The bumper knocked Ivison in the head and pulled him underneath, causing a spinal injury that left him a quadriplegic. In that instant, Ivison, now 19, became one of hundreds of kids killed or hurt by drivers who didn't see them when backing up.

    Yet six years after Congress passed a law — a 2007 act named for a child killed in such an incident — ordering the Transportation Department to have a rule in place by 2011 to require cameras or other backup warning devices on all new cars and light trucks, there have been multiple delays and no regulation is in place"


    Safety should be standard equipment for all cars, not just for the wealthy on luxury or top of the line models. I do understand the industry needs time to purchase and install this equipment on an industrial scale, but it has been over two years since the 2011 delay....time enough to implement these systems on all vehicles, and for all consumers.
  • vservser Member Posts: 48
    Hi. I did drive the impala. It was nice but for a few things. Rear visibility was limited due to the extreme slope. Avalon had the slope but was not as bad. And while the impala had a great v6 it was very jumpy. Seemed to be hard to drive it normally and not constantly gun it. The avalon was smooth driving normally and had similar punch when I needed it. Stereo and GPS was nice in the impala, just better in the avalon. I didn't really notice the seats. Great smthg to thing abt.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited September 2013
    Sometimes the car manufacturers have to be forced into doing things. In 2008 all car manufacturers were notified of the new partial offset crash test to be conducted in 2013. Not many cars have passed the test so far. In fact, after having the camry fail the partial offset crash test, Toyota asked for a delay so they could make adjustments to the RAV-4 before testing. Their request was granted and when the "new" RAV-4 was tested.... it still failed.

    On the rear view camera - I've been driving for 40 years and have always turned my head or used the mirrors. I have a rearview camera in my car and have never used it. I know people have been killed by people backing up their cars, but IDK if the rearview camera would make any difference. Sometimes people are careless. We lose about 50k lives annually in auto accidents and being hit while backing up a car is most likely a very small number of those.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I agree that you don't need a camera, but having one and not using it is silly. The camera can see things behind you that you can't possibly see from the driver's seat. It isn't a substitute for looking behind you nor is it a failsafe because you can forget to look at the camera just as easily as you can forget to look in the mirror or turn your head.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >i] and [/i]?

    What you use is the left caret (shift ,), then the letter i, then the right caret (shift .). At the end of the text, same format with the forward slash as you showed in your demo.

    The posting tool here won't let any of those HTML symbols through. I had fun in the past trying to show people how to post and to adjust the size so they filled the screen without overflowing the right margin of the window. Got it done with pictures.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    I found the camera to be distracting. In fact, I'd say the camera can give you a false sense of security because it is limited to a specific area. I trust my eyes far more than the camera.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited September 2013
    Same with the Kia Cadenza...which sounds like "credenza" to me, making me think of furniture, not an entry level semi-luxury car.

    Well, you'll want to avoid cars like the Fusion then (sounds like a razor, not a car), Sonata (a song, not a car), Camry (something that takes photos, not a car), Passat (who wants a car that's passé?), Optima (is that the same as an Altima, or is it a Transformer or ??), and maybe the 6 (do you get eggroll with that?). ;)

    Did you notice that MT's top pick in the full sized sedan class was the Cadenza? They don't see to have any problem picking a Kia as the winner of a comparo, as some auto mags do. MT also chose the Forte as the winner of their last compact comparo.
  • I also left out the name of the third place car. It was the Chrysler 300 3.7 V6. I think it is a very cool looking car...but again it is rear drive and only competes in V6 form due to it's dimensions.

    Glad the info was useful.
  • Yes, I know MT picked the Cadenza. I have been inside the Credenza, it's really, really nice. You can pick up the base model called "Premium" for $35,000 for those on the fence between the Optima or moving up. It has the same 3.3 liter V6 that is in the Azera which pumps out 293 HP, and 270 lb ft . A pretty car. It has a kinda weird looking version of the Kia Grill...but it has grown on me.

    here is a picture: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploa- ds/2012/10/Kia-Cadenza-2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.caradvice.com.au/198281/2013-k- ia-cadenza-revealed-rhd-version-planned-australia/&h=771&w=1346&sz=166&tbnid=gcD- dIcJHnSgCjM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=209&zoom=1&usg=__Pc4QDNC2XTXxrIFY9Tq9ldU3Jgw=&docid=s- J25UC9maGRPzM&sa=X&ei=CZRJUoKOJrGs4AOCsoHADA&ved=0CGIQ9QEwBw

    Here is a front end shot: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/2014-- kia-cadenza_100426054_l.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thecarconnection.com/news/10838- 82_2014-kia-cadenza-video-road-test&h=719&w=1024&sz=143&tbnid=8yJbLlBElJ9t1M:&tb- nh=126&tbnw=180&zoom=1&usg=__htg7uIvZNlA_YMRZwCS-GBlZfnI=&docid=vQ_tLX_gn0ixiM&s- a=X&ei=CZRJUoKOJrGs4AOCsoHADA&ved=0CFsQ9QEwBA


    C/D also picked the Forte. Heck, you guys know i own the Optima , but I try real hard to fair.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    When your Optima transforms, what does it turn into? :)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    But your eyes can't see something on the ground behind the bumper near the vehicle - the camera can. If you're only using the camera then I agree it's not as safe. But it's not that hard to use both the camera and your mirrors and turn your head. It only takes a couple of weeks to get used to it.

    And with my rear view camera I also get cross traffic alert so it not only gives me some vision to the right and left that I can't get from the driver's seat it alerts me visually and audibly if a car is coming from the right or left even if your vision is totally blocked by other vehicles. A great safety feature.
  • gee22gee22 Member Posts: 82
    Wayne, you sound very similar to someone who had their letter published in Consumer Reports years ago. It was during time that SUV platforms were causing excessive damage and injuries to passanger cars and CR was recommending changes in the ways SUV’s were built.
    The next month, they published a letter from someone who had an SUV but felt it was unfair to single his vehicle out. He said he was an excellent driver and consequently wouldn’t cause an accident.
    I couldn’t believe his attitude. Didn’t he realize he could hit a patch of black ice, a recent oil spill, etc and get into an unavoidable accident. I bet, if he saw a child run into the street, he would put his own life at risk by swerving out of the way. Of course, he could be swerving right into my car.
    Excellent drivers, who use their mirrors and turn their heads have unfortunately killed or injured young children and pets. It was not their fault and could not be prevented but I’m sure most of them never get over their undeserved guilt. But if you have a camera and don’t even glance at it, don’t tell me about your driving history. You are just as irresponsible as a texting teenager if you are not taking advantage of a wonderful safety feature that has the capability of saving an innocent life that you have no idea you were ending as careful as you are.
    Please rethink your position. Thanks
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited September 2013
    In lieu of insulting you I shall just say I am happy with 40 years of driving without an accident or even being pulled over. I did, however, kill one robin in 1989. It flew into my windshield and I was not able to avoid it.

    In two separate incidents, my father and a brother were killed by drunk drivers. Neither of them were consumers of alcohol. That's why they have laws against drinking and driving. My neighbor's granddaughter is paralyzed for life (wheelchair bound) as their car was hit by a young lady texting while driving in 2010. My closest friend just had his 4th and 5th vertebrae fused last week after being hit by a girl who was texting while driving. I feel very comfortable with my driving skills and history (I don't drink and have never even talked on the phone while driving). We all take our chances. I do appreciate your counseling, however, and should I need it in the future I will seek you or the person who was upset with me because I had a borla exhaust on my corvette that was too loud - in spite of never even having seen my car (btw - it was installed by GM - the largest company in the world at that time prior to my leaving the showroom floor with it). BTW, I did the responsible thing prior to buying my corvette. I attended the Skip Barber driving school in Monterey, CA. I actually took the school about 2 years before buying the car as I was in the military and moving to Europe and knew I'd be driving on the autobahn.
  • gee22gee22 Member Posts: 82
    I truly feel sorry for you, both for your devasting losses and for how it has embittered you not to care about others.
  • wayne21wayne21 Member Posts: 259
    edited September 2013
    Thank you. I guess I should have also mentioned I have been an RN (BSN) since 1982.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I prefer systems that offer some of both; Uconnect in most of the Chrysler offerings gives you the customization of a large screen, with a relatively flat menu structure, as well as physical knobs for fan speed, volume, and tuning. There are also buttons for adjusting temperature, recirc/fresh, defrost, etc. However if you're a touchscreen kind of guy, you can do it all via screen. I have it in my Ram, and honestly I end up using the fan-speed knob all the time. The rest I use steering-wheel controls (audio) and touch-screen.

    It's slick, and I can't wait to see how it is implemented on the next midsize Chrysler sedan.
  • gee22gee22 Member Posts: 82
    Apologies. The second part of my statement of my statement was uncalled for, however I am sincere about how I feel about your losses. You are certainly experienced with grief. I should have framed it to consider the grief of a parent who lost a child because of a car in reverse, especially if they knew the driver ignored the backup camera.
    Please note I was polite in my initial request to you.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,439
    depends also on what you drive. especially SUVs these days have terrible blind spots. We have a new RDX, and you can't see large areas behind you. the camera does not replace looking, but it is a wonderful add-on for safety. Also makes it much easier to get close when you are backing in!

    when I drive something like our old TL, with a low trunk and big window, it is shocking how easy it is to see what is behind you.

    2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.

  • suydamsuydam Member Posts: 4,676
    ABS and airbags weren't around 40 years ago either. I have never been in an accident but I'm glad they exist now. Safety technology has come a long way from the days of my childhood when we used to sleep in the back of an El Camino and no one wore seat belts. I'm sure it will continue to improve and that's a good thing.
    '14 Buick Encore Convenience
    '17 Chevy Volt Premiere
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    Thought to myself on the way home from work, when did the Sonata come out with integrated exhaust outlets in the rear bumper?
    Turns out is was a new Impala. Not the first time I've made that mistake.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    MT has a long and storied history of selling their recommendations to the highest bidder. See "Car of the Year" award. And if we know anything about Hyundai/Kia, it's that if some good publicity is able to be bought, they will buy it.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • ab348ab348 Member Posts: 19,030
    The previous Azera had terrible problems with suspension components and ride quality, and Kiyundai products generally are lacking in suspension tuning finesse and ride dynamics, so it is not a surprise that the new models continue to suffer from the issue. Good on C&D for telling it like it is and not falling prey to the "it's new, so it's good" hype that afflicts so many automotive reviews.

    2017 Cadillac ATS Performance Premium 3.6

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    "MT has a long and storied history of selling their recommendations to the highest bidder."

    Do you have any actual proof of this other than disagreeing with their COTY choices? They have made some rather odd choices over the years but I've never heard of or seen any real evidence that they or any other mainstream magazine were actually paid off. It's usually just somebody making things up because car companies advertise in those magazines. Gee, imagine that, car companies actually advertising in a periodical that caters to people that are interested in and buy cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I've heard those stories too, that car mags "sell" their recommendations somehow.

    I've never seen any proof of that, however. :P

    I do know that if Hyundai/Kia is so focused on buying awards and MT is willing to sell them, then Hyundai/Kia have done a lousy job on that so far... zero COTYs to date.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    It's not like Crap & Drivel doesn't have their own agenda.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    What they tend to like or dislike or as you say "their agenda" is a far cry from taking bribes. By the way, what is their agenda?
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    They have their brands they like.
    Their favorite would 'the best thing ever'.
    It would get redesigned and they would point out the deficiencies of the old 'best thing ever'.
    I have a pretty good memory and back then, I subscribed and had the old issues that I could read again.
    'Darling' vehicles never had the deficiencies mentioned when it was 'the best thing ever'.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • jayriderjayrider Member Posts: 3,602
    Their agenda is to generate revenue through advertising sales to pay salaries and hopefully make money after expenses. It's all about survival in a competitive market.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Peter DeLorenzo used to work for GM. When they submitted their entries for COTY to MT it had to be accompanied by a lengthy description of how the mfr would market the award if they won. You tell me why that would be needed before the competition started.........
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That is the agenda or goal of every for profit magazine. Does that mean they "paid off"?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Incompetence is different than fraud.
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