Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
And, your twice as good warranty is 1 year or 12K miles better than Hyundai's B2B but 2 years less (and 20K miles more) than Hyundai's power train.
No way in the world I pay MORE for a used car that somebody possibly abused the hell out of, realized what he did, and decided to unload it, than I would for a brand new, 100k warrantied car. just because it had an "H" on the grille, or the toyota logo.
I totally agree. I'll never buy used for the exact reasons you state. I've got my eyes on a Hyundai when my daughter reaches driving age in a little over a year. I want her to have a safe, new car with (hopefully) no issues. A used Civic? Na. A new Accent for the same money? Probably.
And I'm a diehard Honda-er. But they don't have a lock on building good cars.
Add a little restyle inside and out (which we've possibly seen before here), another plant to meet demand and they're back in business. :shades:
You're asking for a 6 year track record. Sonata already has a 7 or so year track record.
I won't argue that, but there are plenty more used cars that are junk, abused, mistreated ect.
And if it has an "H" on the grill, you don't need a warranty, right?
when did I ever imply that?
I've been fortunate. I've been able to buy new for awhile now. Not anything I want, (never spent more than 23k) but if for some reason my finances changed, and I had to lower my spending amount to 15k, I would get the best new car I could for 15k. not a used, out of warrnaty one becase of the badge, whichever one it was.
and actually pay more for that used one to boot.
Well, my '05 Sonata GLS SV power train warranty is 10 years. If it quits after 10 years in will have cost me $1670 per year, plus 1/10th of the sales tax and other minor gov't charges. If a Camcord quits at the end of it's warranty, what is it's annual cost?
That's a beauty of the Hyundai warranty...no major expenses until after the car loan has been paid off.
thats funny, I've had the same discussion with my girls, the first of which will be driving in a year also. she actually went with me when I bought my 07 altima (I wanted her to see how damn expensive cars are) and saw several cars on the lot that she told me she would like to drive. I then informed her that her first car would most likely be domestic, or kia/hyundai. she said it wasn't fair. :P
Ask her what "fair" means.
Many people say something is not "fair" when they should be saying they do not like something.
But any kid should be happy if his/her parents by him a car, new or used, regardless of make or model. Tell her not to act spoiled, or else she won't get ANY car.
As it turns out, it STILL gets me from A to B, and when I turned 16, it didn't matter what kind of car it was. It was a set of WHEELS!
Well maintained 06 Camry SE with 38000 miles on it. Owner's offer is 16000. What u think? Shud I go for it?
Is it a V6 or I4? For a V6 I wouldn't pay more than $14,500 and for an I4 not a dime more than $13,000.
But my first car was a I4 <100hp 85 1/2 ford escort with a 4spd manual. that was in '89 I think, and I was gratefull to have it. I realy missed it when I totaled it and ended up in a 1981 chevy chevette.
Edmunds says 16,000. My offer was 15,2 and thinking if I shud up it.
It isn't just Honda and Toyota. When I sold my Mazda3 on my own, I noticed dealer ads for used Mazda3's asking as much or more than what I paid for mine when it was new. It was easy for me to undercut the dealers and still get far more than I would have received as a trade in.
Welcome to the subprime world in car sales. Its amazing - a guy with weak credit goes in to buy a new Honda. The prime lender says no, but the subprimer says OK to the used one COSTING THE SAME OR MORE as the new one!
So the guy that has a tough time getting a good loan for various reasons ends up with a costlier loan on an older vehicle. Kinda backwards, but its the way of the world.
They also use the used vehicles as bait for the new. You say "why would I pay $26,000 for a used one when I can buy the new one for $26,500?".
OldCEM
So lesson #1... drive safely over the holidays people!!! Expect some really bad driving and be patient.
And lesson #2... if you're in the market for a new car, remember, good brakes can not only save you the hassle of getting your car fixed and appraised by an adjuster, but it could keep you and others from getting injured.
I have owned American domestic vehicles for over 25-years and have never experienced your nightmares. I have seen and heard the same regarding Japanese cars, but instead of calling them names and doubting their quality, I just take it as the one that got away during assembly, or the owners fault at not maintaining it. The same can be said for a Japanese car if not maintained, but the fact that you appear to actually believe what you are saying is pretty sad.
And what was your response to that, did you admit that you had exxagerated?
I was in a similar situation at 16 with my Dad willing to cough up some dough for a new car, but he put a dollar limit and I had to cover the rest. The dollar limit was a big mistake because it made me think I had to go American to get the most "bang for my buck." And heck, it should be cheaper, there is less shipping costs right? :P
Anyway, I was thinking horsepower, and fuel economy. I should have been thinking reliability, long term quality, and resale!
With the lower dollar limit and my not having much money of my own, and thinking I just had to have a NEW car (a used Civic would have been a MUCH better choice, possibly literally a hundred times better choice!). So instead of getting a 2 or 3 year old Civic I got a new '95 Dodge.
Wow, what a mistake. Do not do the same to your daughter. The few thousand you save now will be gone by year 4 in repair costs and tow truck services. Furthermore, she will be stranded multiple times, which is probably worse for a female than a male.
Lastly, when she goes to trade it in or sell it privately, she'll curse you and hate you forever when she gets peanuts and sees that the same year Honda is selling for $5-7,000 dollars still. So not only have you spent thousands extra in repair bills vs. the Honda or Toyota, and hundreds in tow truck costs, but then you get the final knockout punch in terrible resale value.
Also there is the fact that 10% of the year your car is in the shop. Which means she'll be borrowing yours.
Happened to me.... since my Dodge was worth nothing, and I was still in college and poor, I had to "borrow" that 95 Camry of my parents for a few years until I got on my feet after college. That Camry ran fine and didn't cause me any problems. Parents took it back when I bought 03 Accord Coupe and used it for even a few more years. Then they sold it at like 120K miles for 3,500 dollars.
> she'll curse you and hate you forever when she gets peanuts and sees that the same year Honda is selling for $5-7,000 dollars
>Also there is the fact that 10% of the year your car is in the shop.
Your exaggerations don't make your post seem credible at all. So you're basing all this "knowledge" on your experience with a Dodge that you chose badly? Have you checked JD Powers ratings on new cars the last several years? There's no difference between most car brands.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Everyone explains that the discussion groups attract the complainers. You can't judge the numbers of real problems from a few complainers who post multiple places, multiple times and exaggerate. Some even make up complaints about cars they don't like or feel threatened by to smear their image.
As for your Dodge, is it possible your transmission was "abused"? I know how some young guys drive...
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Anyway, to call the Neon a good choice or reliable is to call the State Lottery an excellent investment.
You made my point though with the values you posted, Civic wins by 3K or more even with an extra year of age!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
Share your vehicle reviews
When I went to college in 2000 my parents put a $15,000 limit for me to choose a car. Instead of a brand new compact or domestic I choose a 1997 Honda Accord LX with 36,000 miles on it. When I graduated from grad school in 2006, it had 120,000 miles on it. I handed it to my sister after purchased my current ride (an IS350 ) and it is still running strong as we speak. During the 6-year period I had the car, besides the routine maintenance the only other unexpected costs are 1. replace the alternator and 2. replace the radiator. Never had any problem with the engine or transmission and this is for imidazol97... I did drive it pretty aggressive .
With my and my family's own experience, combine with andre3's horror story I just can't come up with a single reason why should I go with anything else other than a Honda or Toyota. Well... BMW might be another alternative when it's time to part away with my IS350. :P
#2 My 2nd daughter recieved a Mustang GT for her 16th...I found a mint 01 with about 80 k miles. She's had it 1 full yr now.....No problems...oil changes only...So it really depends what the condition the car is when you buy it...and how good yopu are at negotiationg
No way would I pay $7,000 for a 6-year-old Civic, a 2001 model.
Other than the fact the Dodge just issued a recall involving Nitros. In my mind there is a difference, and maybe a lot of people also see, hear and feel the difference.
But let's get back to the topic of midsize cars, which the Civic, nor the Neon is.
I have no plans for a Midsize Sedans 3.0. Any of you who would like this discussion to continue need to be mindful of the subject when you are preparing to post.
If you have comments you'd like to make about some subject that doesn't belong here, the search features on the left should help you. And either Kirstie or I or any host would be happy to help you find an appropriate discussion, just drop any of us an email.
But here we are talking about midsize sedans. Period. You are putting your posting privileges at risk by continuing to ignore that. And if too many of you continue to ignore that, you are clearly saying this topic has run its course.
Any facts to the contrary need sources and explanations, I never heard of the Sonata having class leading mileage.
It should be noted that Mazda slashed their "full factory warranty" term by 25% in both mileage and years for 2007.
So with cheaper prices comes "we don't stand behind our product anymore."
The dealer's explanation at the Mazda in Southern California was not holding water for me, he said "If Honda and Toyota can do it, why can't Mazda?"
LOL, I can think of a lot of red circle reasons. I'm not saying Mazda doesn't make good vehicles, but I don't think they are at Honda/Toyota league levels. If I was considering a Mazda6, I'd want the longer warranty.
Here is the link noting the Sonata being #1 in fuel economy in its EPA class:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bestworst.shtml
Also, the Sonata leads the mid-sized class in interior room. Note on the following page, none of the other cars are in the mid-sized class (EPA classes are by interior volume, meaning Accord, Camry, and all the rest of the cars we are discussing here have less interior volume than the Sonata):
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byEPAclass.htm
Also, the Sonata has more standard safety equipment than any other car in the mid-sized class we are discussing here. It's the only car from this discussion with standard ABS, ESC, side airbags and curtains, four-wheel disc brakes, and active front head restraints standard on all trim lines.
I guess you could also say that, with the higher prices of Accords and Camrys comes "we don't stand behind our products", given their relatively short warranties.
Also, the Sonata leads the mid-sized class in interior room. Note on the following page, none of the other cars are in the mid-sized class (EPA classes are by interior volume, meaning Accord, Camry, and all the rest of the cars we are discussing here have less interior volume than the Sonata):
The problem with your link and argument is that it is plainly and truly false. The EPA has a weird "rental car-like company" way of classifying cars. Most people wouldn't buy that the Sonata is a "full size car" as listed by the EPA. It is a midsize car and hence one of the cars in this discussion.
Furthermore, ANY midsizer would have the best gas mileage in the large SUV category, so that goes to show you how missclassification can make the Sonata seem better than it is in fuel economy. The truth is, that midsize sedans (which are the topic of this forum) are lead by Toyota and Nissan on the website link you provided. Lastly, the 4 cylinder Accord gets 10-15% better mileage than the Sonata, both in city and highway.
I have no complaints to air about the Sonata and actually own a Fusion -- are there any other Fusion (Milan) owners on this thread? -- but the Sonata's MSRP doesn't seem all that much of a "bargain basement" price. Am I missing something?
What does a well-equipped, top-of-the-line V6 Accord or V6 Camry go for these days? $30,000? Aren't the 4-cylinder base models of the Fusion (Milan), Altima, Legacy, Accord, Camry, Aura, et al all within a thousand dollars of each other?
By the way, GM's having an Accord and Camry on the Aura's showroom floor is a very gutsy move. It will be interesting to see how this pans out. It's taking Ford's "Challenge" one step higher.
No market segment has keener competition than the mid-size one. High stakes poker at work here. I am noticing a significant increase in the number of Honda ads here lately, mostly for the Accord.
I don't see what is false about the fact that the Sonata leads its EPA class in fuel economy. It is a fact, plain and simple. Sonata has the room of a large car. That is the EPA class it is in. It has more interior room than any other car we are discussing here. That advantage allows the Sonata to grab the #1 spot in fuel economy for large cars. Large-car interior room for a mid-sized price--and a low mid-sized price at that. More demonstration of the Sonata's value, wouldn't you say?
I suspect your tongue was firmly implanted in your cheek when you wrote that. Either that or a touch of sarcasm. But I like the idea. Heck, I'd trade in our new Fusion for an Accord with a deal like that. LOL. Who wouldn't?
Ow! I bit my toungue!!
The are already the leading sellers in this midsize market. The Accord's fuel numbers were 24/34 last I checked in the 4 cylinder. What are the Sonata's?
Are you saying your linked website is infallible? Just because it is written doesn't mean it is so.
A warranty is an insurance policy. It's appreciated in two ways: 1) peace of mind it provides, and 2) when something breaks. I would have loved to have had a longer warranty when the A/C condenser went out on my Civic shortly after the warranty expired--cost me $900 to fix. A friend of mine just replaced the failed tranny in his Odyssey at about 95k miles. Fortunately, he had invested in an extended warranty up to 100k miles, so he didn't have to pay nearly $3000 out of pocket. You can bet HE appreciated the extra warranty coverage.
The fact is, both Honda and Toyota know their cars break, so extending the warranties on the Accord and Camry would cost them big bucks. So they don't do it.