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Comments
A few notes/questions:
1) No LX V6? That's a bummer; I think there's definitely room in this lineup for, for example, an LX-P V6 to slot in below the EX V6.
2) Why can't we have dual zone auto climate control without having to take leather? I frekin hate leather, especially if the cloth interior is done well. Along the same lines, I wish NAV was available on non leather models as well.
3) Keyless start and music hard-drive, anyone? Gosh, even the new Lancer and Sentra have these (not to mention the Versa!!)
I agree an LX-PV6 should be available seeing as the ole "SEV6" was a HOT seller for Honda, or so it seemed, yet they couldn't move an LXV6 before 2006 when it had the same features as the SE sans the alloy wheels. I also agree on some of your other points. Honda is far far to conservative with features it seems. What about some Xenon headlights for the EXLV6? And maybe more color combinations? White can't be had with Gray or black interiors...
I wonder what the "SE" models will be like at the end of this new generation's cycle in about 5 years?
But even if it lacks some features...I still find it as attractive as the current Altima. And that's a LOT coming from someone who didn't care for the current generation. I still say the Camry will have a slight lead in the features department if this preliminary list is all the Accord will get.
NA/VP
LX/LX
LX-P/SE
EX/EX
EXL/EXL
NA/SEV6
EXV6/LXV6
EXLV6/EXLV6
So there are actually fewer trim levels for 08 verses 07.
Six verses eight. Actually it's really only four when you group certain trims together. The EX/EXV6 are the same except engine and the EXL/EXLv6 are the same as well.
They are really no different then say A Fusion SEL and a Fusion SEL with leather and other options or a Camry XLE and a Camry XLE with leather. Instead of the typical option choices of the Camry, Altima and Fusion, Honda simply has different trim levels. Seems a bit much when first looking at them, but those trim levels are easier to deal with then say 3 trims with multiple avaiable options (especially true for the Altima, Camry and Fusion)
Fusion: Has Five
S
SE/SEV6
SEL/SELV6
But the options make things hectic
Camry: Has 8!!!!
CE
LE/LEV6
SE/SEV6
XLE/XLEV6
Hybrid
Things get real crazy with the Camry...especially if you won't certain options that appear on paper but are far from reality.
Altima: Has six
2.5
2.5S
2.5S with SL pkg.
3.5SE
3.5SL
Hybrid
From experience. Nissan is the worst. Either basic transportation or fully loaded Infiniti-like prices. Choose your poision.
I only wonder if Honda will undercut the Camry in price. The Camry LE is cheaper MSRP/Invoice wise than even the current Accord... :surprise:
EX-L V6: The most luxurious Accord
EX-L V6 features added to EX V6 include:
Leather seating surfaces and steering wheel
Premium audio system with XM
4-way Power passenger’s seat
Heated seats
Dual zone climate control system
Homelink system
Available navigation system with Bluetooth
This can't be the whole story. The only thing on this list that was not available on the 03 EX V6 is Bluetooth. That can't be the only thing new here, can it? No mention of ESC? This list should be much much longer.
I want adjustable pedals, for one thing. They could wait until the next generation to add them for me though. I won't be buying a new Accord for another 5 years at least.
For the others, here are the major factory options available:
CE - VSC
LE - JBL/Bluetooth, Alloys, VSC, Moonroof
XLE - VSC, Intelligent Key (V6), Heated Seats, NAV, Leather (4 cyl.)
Hybrid - NAV, Moonroof, Leather, Heated Seats
Toyota has a ton of port-installed accessories, but that's pretty much the factory list.
Not sure how thats "real crazy"?
It gets that much more complicated with the SE model where certain packages are only available with the automatic transmission and even then in certain regions Toyota (the Company) doesn't allow certain model configurations. That's CRAZY in that the brochure says you can get them, but in reality you can't. Example try finding say a Camry XLEI4 with just the VSC option without leather.
So while the list may be shorter, many of the options aren't available to every and those that are get combined most of the time and aren't really a la carte.
Honda makes is simpler by just making trim levels optionless.
CE for example is pretty easy to equipt.
LE models get a bit more difficult in the SE region..and XLE models come either no option XLE or loaded
Regards:
OldCEM
Would that not be true of any make of car?
The Accord can't push into the TL's back yard too much considering they share a platform.
I understand your point somewhat - but the Altima and Maxima are so much alike now, and the G35 is RWD and a totally different animal the the others, even tho they share the VQ engine.
I think Honda knows what got them where they are and a loaded up Accord is just too much. Rain sensing wipers? C'mon. How about slippers, a pipe and a newspaper every morning?
As I said earlier, if Toyota can have a Camry, Lexus ES350, Avalon and IS350 all co-exist in similar price ranges, Honda should be able to pull off the TL/TSX/Accord scenerio.
The Accord is the flagship for Honda so it needs to be packin the most features, even if some of those features step on the toes of the current TL because within a year the TL will get a redesign the following year.
I think it's just an excuse, Honda no one is asking Honda to make memory seats standard or be equipped with some of the luxuries of the TL, but I do feel like the Accord should be packin features that the main competition from Toyota and Nissan are offering, even if that means ever so slightly stepping on the toes of the TL.
Eh this really doesn't bother me. I have an iPod. I don't need the same music in 16 places. I have it on CDs, my computer, and my iPod.
I like that most vehicles are supporting an iPod connection either via USB or the iPod connector.
It seems like this is the trend anyway, with all the after-market navigation and cell phone content provided.
I wouldn't buy another car without it. Check out the channel lineup one day and you'll see at least 10 stations you can't live without. National coverage. Live sports events from the PGA Tour to NASCAR and all in between. Mega news and weather for any city/region, anytime. No morning BS talk "shows". Etc. Etc.
About $12 a month.
Once you go XM, you'll never go back. Kinda like cable vs. rabbit ears, only no commercials.
Granted the advanced technology wasn't there in the 50s and 60s BUT..............
There is no better feeling on this planet than smoking the rear wheels on a hemi-cuda, 442, or big block GM.
So chances are the gadgets won't go south.
No matter how you guys feel about it, the Accord is in the most competitive class of vehicles sold in this country. It has got to pack the features of the competition b/c folks will notice.
I think what we have seen is simply a short list of what will be avaialble..everything isn't being shown yet...hopefully.
That's one of the things I like about my favorite FM station (Walton & Johnson in the morning), and it doesn't cost a dime. Nope, no XM needed here.
The other kicker was interior quality, she got the LX with appearance group and add-on leather for $16,100. The best thing about the appearance group is the electroluminescent lighting, some of the other features are strangely crippled-- only car I've ever seen without a MPG indicator on its DIC-- hopefully they'll correct that for 08. Our enthusiasm for the Optima would have applied only to the four, the six doesn't give you much more in power plus you have a timing belt to fool with.
With the optional 17 inch Michelins, the Optima is close in handling to the Fusion/Milan. The better NVH and nicer interior plus lower price trump any advantage in that department.
Do you even have cable TV?
They will all have ESC by the time I buy a new car again. My 03 should not need replacing before 2012, when it will be mandated. I will probably get either the diesel or V6 again anyway.
Do you even have cable TV?
Yes, but just the basic channels. The NFL and NCAA FB are on cable. Go Saints, Go Tigers.
About $12 a month.
Once you go XM, you'll never go back. Kinda like cable vs. rabbit ears, only no commercials.
I actually dislike XM radio. I enjoy local content, I like listening to non-ClearChannel stations where the DJs are actially from the town where the station originates. If I wanted to listen to the same 10 songs all the way across the country I can just find the appropriately categorized ClearChannel station.
Supposedly the HDFM has similar sound quality to XM or Sirus and is free. It also opens up "sideband" on the FM dial giving listeners much more access to programming.
For my needs, I would much much rather have an integrated iPod controller than XM or a hard drive system in the car.
Now half of the tank of fuel is gone, and the results are impressive enough that I'm going to continue for the second half tank to get the full results.
240+ miles on half a tank, mostly city... When the gauge is on "E" I'm usually around 360-400 miles and it takes 13-14 gallons to fill. I could see over 34 MPG for this tank.
Not that I'm a fuel ecomonomy freak, that was just another limit I wanted to test (after acceleration and handling, lol).
XM doesn't replace FM, just adds to it. FM sucks anyway. How many more times do we gotta hear Golden Earring or BTO before we slit our wrists?
Supposedly the HDFM has similar sound quality to XM or Sirus and is free.
You get free commercials too. You don't get XM for the sound quality. Its for the content which blows away AM/FM.
I would much much rather have an integrated iPod controller than XM or a hard drive system in the car
You can have both. Once you listen to a song on your IPod, how many more times do you want to hear it that hour, or day, or week etc? Again, XM, with its HUGE content, is unbeatable. You can get an XM kit for $35.
Can you tell I love mine?
See, we finally agree on something. The only problem I have with this statement, is WHY? Why can't somebody who buys a Fusion also be part of your 'handful of enthusiasts'?
Would suggest to you, that even the 6, hampered by similiar drivetrain limitations, caters almost specifically to the enthusiast. Almost all the cars in this group have something to 'hang its hat on'. Examples: Honda a silky smooth 4 and V6, gas mileage, resale values, probable reliablility, along with a ride that is a good compromise between sporting and soft, the Camry pretty much the same except with a generally 'softer' ride, the Sonata, price and a really decent V6 for cheaper than most other 4s, the Altima a legendary V6, spunky 4, high resales and the CVT, the 6, handling and price etc. At which point we come to the Fusion and I guess all we can talk about is how cheap (or subjectively pretty) they are and the gas consumption qualities of silly AWD?
And yes the Fusion should remain less of a car, unless Ford can figure out a way to get some improved version of the 3.5 in it. By the time Ford gets around to its rumored 240hp 3.0, it will likely still be at least 40-50hp (and a few mpgs) short of what the big boys are doing by then.
Yeah, I think I just have things I would rather do with the money. I'm glad you like it, but it doesn't add any value for me.
The rear brakes eh? Those should last a LONG time. Is yours a 4cyl or a 6?
I love the power, comfort, ride, quiet interior, styling (interior and exterior) and the value. Terrific buying experience and $2250 in incentives. If you had told me that I would buy a Saturn a week before I did, I would have laughed. I set out to buy a Camry or another Accord, but forced myself to look at more than those cars and I'm glad I did. Camry and Accord are great cars. No brainer purchases. I found the Aura to be a better car and a better value. Time will tell if that was a good decision.
If it weren't for having to replace the catalytic converter at 95k miles and the transmission at 142k miles on my 98 Accord, I probably wouldn't have looked at other cars.
In addition to the rumored 240 hp 3.0 there is a twin turbo 2.5L putting out 260 hp but hopefully getting better fuel mileage than comparable V6s. Of course if that happens you'll just find some other excuse to not like the Fusion.
Regards:
OldCEM
http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13310/first-drive-2007-brilliance-bs6-driving-impressions-and-issues-page2.html
Man tough crowd. In CA, the Cat is covered to over 100k by the emissions warranty, but a trans at 142k...man I don't know if you can get mad at the car for that, especially since it was an auto.