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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    A few thoughts - looks pretty much like what people would expect, based on previous Accord generations.

    A few notes/questions:
    1) No LX V6? That's a bummer; I think there's definitely room in this lineup for, for example, an LX-P V6 to slot in below the EX V6.

    2) Why can't we have dual zone auto climate control without having to take leather? I frekin hate leather, especially if the cloth interior is done well. Along the same lines, I wish NAV was available on non leather models as well.

    3) Keyless start and music hard-drive, anyone? Gosh, even the new Lancer and Sentra have these (not to mention the Versa!!)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    ...thank insiders on Vtec.net. I'm just a fast messenger.

    I agree an LX-PV6 should be available seeing as the ole "SEV6" was a HOT seller for Honda, or so it seemed, yet they couldn't move an LXV6 before 2006 when it had the same features as the SE sans the alloy wheels. I also agree on some of your other points. Honda is far far to conservative with features it seems. What about some Xenon headlights for the EXLV6? And maybe more color combinations? White can't be had with Gray or black interiors... :cry:

    I wonder what the "SE" models will be like at the end of this new generation's cycle in about 5 years?

    But even if it lacks some features...I still find it as attractive as the current Altima. And that's a LOT coming from someone who didn't care for the current generation. I still say the Camry will have a slight lead in the features department if this preliminary list is all the Accord will get.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668
    I never knew Accords came in so many flavors. It's a bit mind boggling.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Accord Sedan 08/07
    NA/VP
    LX/LX
    LX-P/SE
    EX/EX
    EXL/EXL
    NA/SEV6
    EXV6/LXV6
    EXLV6/EXLV6

    So there are actually fewer trim levels for 08 verses 07.
    Six verses eight. Actually it's really only four when you group certain trims together. The EX/EXV6 are the same except engine and the EXL/EXLv6 are the same as well.

    They are really no different then say A Fusion SEL and a Fusion SEL with leather and other options or a Camry XLE and a Camry XLE with leather. Instead of the typical option choices of the Camry, Altima and Fusion, Honda simply has different trim levels. Seems a bit much when first looking at them, but those trim levels are easier to deal with then say 3 trims with multiple avaiable options (especially true for the Altima, Camry and Fusion)

    Fusion: Has Five
    S
    SE/SEV6
    SEL/SELV6
    But the options make things hectic

    Camry: Has 8!!!!
    CE
    LE/LEV6
    SE/SEV6
    XLE/XLEV6
    Hybrid
    Things get real crazy with the Camry...especially if you won't certain options that appear on paper but are far from reality.

    Altima: Has six
    2.5
    2.5S
    2.5S with SL pkg.
    3.5SE
    3.5SL
    Hybrid
    From experience. Nissan is the worst. Either basic transportation or fully loaded Infiniti-like prices. Choose your poision. :)

    I only wonder if Honda will undercut the Camry in price. The Camry LE is cheaper MSRP/Invoice wise than even the current Accord... :surprise:
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    In my opinion, that is one of the reasons why Accords have high resale value. It is easy to price a certain trim level as there are no options. It is OK to have options bundles like the Altima does, they don't add too much confusion. However, when your options list is a mile long, the used vehicle becomes harder to value, and the price of many of those options when the vehicle was purchased new may not get reflected in the book value.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735


    EX-L V6: The most luxurious Accord

    EX-L V6 features added to EX V6 include:

    Leather seating surfaces and steering wheel
    Premium audio system with XM
    4-way Power passenger’s seat
    Heated seats
    Dual zone climate control system
    Homelink system
    Available navigation system with Bluetooth


    This can't be the whole story. The only thing on this list that was not available on the 03 EX V6 is Bluetooth. That can't be the only thing new here, can it? No mention of ESC? This list should be much much longer.

    I want adjustable pedals, for one thing. They could wait until the next generation to add them for me though. I won't be buying a new Accord for another 5 years at least.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree, I think the Mazda6 is a great-looking car even though the design is five years old. It would be my top choice in this field were it not for questions about safety (no IIHS side impact tests run with the side airbags) and mediocre fuel economy. It's also one of the few cars in this class available as a hatchback and/or wagon--and the only one available as both.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Max - the Camry option list is much shorter than in former generations. In fact, the only model with a moderately long option list is the SE.

    For the others, here are the major factory options available:
    CE - VSC
    LE - JBL/Bluetooth, Alloys, VSC, Moonroof
    XLE - VSC, Intelligent Key (V6), Heated Seats, NAV, Leather (4 cyl.)
    Hybrid - NAV, Moonroof, Leather, Heated Seats

    Toyota has a ton of port-installed accessories, but that's pretty much the factory list.

    Not sure how thats "real crazy"?
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    It's crazy in that in the SE, a lot of "options" that are available in the brochure will never be found on the lots. Maybe I should have been more specific seeing as it's my region and the distribution center and not just Toyota as a Company. Yet even with the options that are available on the Camry, it's not as easy to find say a Camry LE with Alloys, Sunroof and JBL verses say an Accord EX.

    It gets that much more complicated with the SE model where certain packages are only available with the automatic transmission and even then in certain regions Toyota (the Company) doesn't allow certain model configurations. That's CRAZY in that the brochure says you can get them, but in reality you can't. Example try finding say a Camry XLEI4 with just the VSC option without leather.

    So while the list may be shorter, many of the options aren't available to every and those that are get combined most of the time and aren't really a la carte.

    Honda makes is simpler by just making trim levels optionless.

    CE for example is pretty easy to equipt.

    LE models get a bit more difficult in the SE region..and XLE models come either no option XLE or loaded
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    I thought the 79 Accord was OK - that's why I bought the new one in 91. The others belonged to my kids. They insisted that the Hondas were what they wanted, and, I did my best to keep them running. The new ones now, I'm sure, are fine. However, I'll never buy another used one that I'm not familiar with how it was cared for. The last one, the Civic I bought my daughter, was purchased off a big Ford dealer's lot. It was clean, and, I got a good deal on it. However, I'll willing to bet the first owner skrimped on oil changes.

    Regards:
    OldCEM
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    However, I'll never buy another used one that I'm not familiar with how it was cared for.

    Would that not be true of any make of car?
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    If you're going to classify the number of trim levels like that then add 2 more to the Fusion's list for SEV6 AWD and SELV6 AWD. For 2008 there is a sport trim now too.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I'm disappointed in a lack of features though seeing as the Accord is Honda's flagship sedan.

    The Accord can't push into the TL's back yard too much considering they share a platform.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    sure It can. just improve the TL even more when its redesigned. Kind of like what Nissan is doing with the altima, maxima and G. the G has been redesigned to stay ahead of the altima. currently, not much difference between a fully loaded altima 3.5se and a max. When the max gets its redesign in 09 or 10, It will have to be bumed up to separate itself from the altima. I'm betting the diesel option that will be available is part of that plan.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    sure It can. just improve the TL even more when its redesigned. Kind of like what Nissan is doing with the altima, maxima and G. the G has been redesigned to stay ahead of the altima.

    I understand your point somewhat - but the Altima and Maxima are so much alike now, and the G35 is RWD and a totally different animal the the others, even tho they share the VQ engine.

    I think Honda knows what got them where they are and a loaded up Accord is just too much. Rain sensing wipers? C'mon. How about slippers, a pipe and a newspaper every morning?
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    I think though, the risk is not offering enough new toys and gadgets. a lot of people are holding off on a car purchase to see what the 08 accord is like. It could hurt honda if a lot of them just view it as the same old same old. not that anybody really knows for sure that it is. I mean, they certainly arn't doing anything darring with the styling, I wouldn't even say exciting. Its going to be hard to improve much on the handling and fit/finish of the previous gen, so more options would seem the logical way to go. Unless of course, they're doing it on purpose to go out and undercut the camry and altima price wise.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I totally forgot about the AWD models. LOL
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    agreeing 100 percent.

    As I said earlier, if Toyota can have a Camry, Lexus ES350, Avalon and IS350 all co-exist in similar price ranges, Honda should be able to pull off the TL/TSX/Accord scenerio.

    The Accord is the flagship for Honda so it needs to be packin the most features, even if some of those features step on the toes of the current TL because within a year the TL will get a redesign the following year.

    I think it's just an excuse, Honda no one is asking Honda to make memory seats standard or be equipped with some of the luxuries of the TL, but I do feel like the Accord should be packin features that the main competition from Toyota and Nissan are offering, even if that means ever so slightly stepping on the toes of the TL.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Well, I think too many gadgets raises the price unnecessarily, for thinks I don't really want. XM radio, don't need it. I-Pod connection, don't need it. Nav., I don't need that either. I am perfectly happy listening to my favorite FM radio station, and I have always made it to my destination without Navigation. They have all those signs cluttering up the highway, so I may as well use them. I do want things like Air-Bags, ABS, and ESC. I would rather not have to pay for all those gadgets, to get what's really important (to me).
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    3) Keyless start and music hard-drive, anyone? Gosh, even the new Lancer and Sentra have these (not to mention the Versa!!)

    Eh this really doesn't bother me. I have an iPod. I don't need the same music in 16 places. I have it on CDs, my computer, and my iPod.

    I like that most vehicles are supporting an iPod connection either via USB or the iPod connector.

    It seems like this is the trend anyway, with all the after-market navigation and cell phone content provided.
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    thats your age showing :P
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I like the leather seats, but I could also do without the "power". I think the non-power seats are quicker, and easier to move. I have to stand outside the car, and move the seat back before getting in. With the power seat, I have to stand there for quite a while, waiting for the seat to move. The manual seat would be quicker for me. I don't think there are leather seats, that are not also power seats. That's life, I guess.
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    XM radio, don't need it.

    I wouldn't buy another car without it. Check out the channel lineup one day and you'll see at least 10 stations you can't live without. National coverage. Live sports events from the PGA Tour to NASCAR and all in between. Mega news and weather for any city/region, anytime. No morning BS talk "shows". Etc. Etc.

    About $12 a month.

    Once you go XM, you'll never go back. Kinda like cable vs. rabbit ears, only no commercials.
  • corkscrewcorkscrew Member Posts: 254
    I have to agree with elroy5. All these gadgets rob power from getting to the wheels and create a windfall for someone to fix when they go south.
    Granted the advanced technology wasn't there in the 50s and 60s BUT..............
    There is no better feeling on this planet than smoking the rear wheels on a hemi-cuda, 442, or big block GM. :)
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    But I thought Honda had the whole reliability thing on lock?
    So chances are the gadgets won't go south.

    No matter how you guys feel about it, the Accord is in the most competitive class of vehicles sold in this country. It has got to pack the features of the competition b/c folks will notice.

    I think what we have seen is simply a short list of what will be avaialble..everything isn't being shown yet...hopefully.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    No morning BS talk "shows". Etc. Etc.

    That's one of the things I like about my favorite FM station (Walton & Johnson in the morning), and it doesn't cost a dime. Nope, no XM needed here.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Your post reminded me that the Honda press release didn't say anything about the availability of ESC on the 2008 Accord I4s. I wonder if that will change for 2008, or if it will still be only on the V6s?
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    My wife's finalists were the Optima and the Fusion/Milan. I do agree with you that the four cylinder in the Optima seemed quite a bit more sophisticated, funny because we found the same basic engine in the Sebring to be a lot rougher.

    The other kicker was interior quality, she got the LX with appearance group and add-on leather for $16,100. The best thing about the appearance group is the electroluminescent lighting, some of the other features are strangely crippled-- only car I've ever seen without a MPG indicator on its DIC-- hopefully they'll correct that for 08. Our enthusiasm for the Optima would have applied only to the four, the six doesn't give you much more in power plus you have a timing belt to fool with.

    With the optional 17 inch Michelins, the Optima is close in handling to the Fusion/Milan. The better NVH and nicer interior plus lower price trump any advantage in that department.
  • corkscrewcorkscrew Member Posts: 254
    Honda does have reliability on lock, I have heard the accord referred to as " bulletproof". But when something does go south, it costs a fortune to fix. I had a 5 year old pickup and the plastic fan in front of the condenser broke and it cost $500 to fix it. We bought an Accord a month later. Our 2nd car is a 14 year old Integra RS, only A/C and an AM-FM radio. Except for normal maintenance, only two issues. New brakes and a Main Relay.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The I4 engines in the Sebring and Optima/Sonata really aren't the same. They have some common design elements, but each manufacturer in the Hyundai/DCX/Mitsubishi alliance builds its own variant of the basic design. That could account for why the engine sounds different in the Sebring than the Optima. Or maybe the Optima's engine bay is better insulated?
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    I thouht honda fixed everything for free?
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    Nope, no XM needed here.

    Do you even have cable TV?
  • corkscrewcorkscrew Member Posts: 254
    Ask me eight years from now.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Your post reminded me that the Honda press release didn't say anything about the availability of ESC on the 2008 Accord I4s. I wonder if that will change for 2008, or if it will still be only on the V6s?

    They will all have ESC by the time I buy a new car again. My 03 should not need replacing before 2012, when it will be mandated. I will probably get either the diesel or V6 again anyway.

    Do you even have cable TV?

    Yes, but just the basic channels. The NFL and NCAA FB are on cable. Go Saints, Go Tigers.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I wouldn't buy another car without it. Check out the channel lineup one day and you'll see at least 10 stations you can't live without. National coverage. Live sports events from the PGA Tour to NASCAR and all in between. Mega news and weather for any city/region, anytime. No morning BS talk "shows". Etc. Etc.

    About $12 a month.

    Once you go XM, you'll never go back. Kinda like cable vs. rabbit ears, only no commercials.


    I actually dislike XM radio. I enjoy local content, I like listening to non-ClearChannel stations where the DJs are actially from the town where the station originates. If I wanted to listen to the same 10 songs all the way across the country I can just find the appropriately categorized ClearChannel station.
    Supposedly the HDFM has similar sound quality to XM or Sirus and is free. It also opens up "sideband" on the FM dial giving listeners much more access to programming.
    For my needs, I would much much rather have an integrated iPod controller than XM or a hard drive system in the car.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    Last week I posted a video and a description of the techniques I am using for city driving to try and test the maximum city MPG the car can obtain (07 LX manual).

    Now half of the tank of fuel is gone, and the results are impressive enough that I'm going to continue for the second half tank to get the full results.

    240+ miles on half a tank, mostly city... When the gauge is on "E" I'm usually around 360-400 miles and it takes 13-14 gallons to fill. I could see over 34 MPG for this tank.

    Not that I'm a fuel ecomonomy freak, that was just another limit I wanted to test (after acceleration and handling, lol).
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    I actually dislike XM radio. I enjoy local content

    XM doesn't replace FM, just adds to it. FM sucks anyway. How many more times do we gotta hear Golden Earring or BTO before we slit our wrists?

    Supposedly the HDFM has similar sound quality to XM or Sirus and is free.

    You get free commercials too. You don't get XM for the sound quality. Its for the content which blows away AM/FM.

    I would much much rather have an integrated iPod controller than XM or a hard drive system in the car

    You can have both. Once you listen to a song on your IPod, how many more times do you want to hear it that hour, or day, or week etc? Again, XM, with its HUGE content, is unbeatable. You can get an XM kit for $35.

    Can you tell I love mine?
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    The differences you're referring to are only important to a small handful of enthusiasts, most of whom wouldn't buy a Fusion anyway
    See, we finally agree on something. The only problem I have with this statement, is WHY? Why can't somebody who buys a Fusion also be part of your 'handful of enthusiasts'?
    Would suggest to you, that even the 6, hampered by similiar drivetrain limitations, caters almost specifically to the enthusiast. Almost all the cars in this group have something to 'hang its hat on'. Examples: Honda a silky smooth 4 and V6, gas mileage, resale values, probable reliablility, along with a ride that is a good compromise between sporting and soft, the Camry pretty much the same except with a generally 'softer' ride, the Sonata, price and a really decent V6 for cheaper than most other 4s, the Altima a legendary V6, spunky 4, high resales and the CVT, the 6, handling and price etc. At which point we come to the Fusion and I guess all we can talk about is how cheap (or subjectively pretty) they are and the gas consumption qualities of silly AWD?
    And yes the Fusion should remain less of a car, unless Ford can figure out a way to get some improved version of the 3.5 in it. By the time Ford gets around to its rumored 240hp 3.0, it will likely still be at least 40-50hp (and a few mpgs) short of what the big boys are doing by then.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    You can have both. Once you listen to a song on your IPod, how many more times do you want to hear it that hour, or day, or week etc? Again, XM, with its HUGE content, is unbeatable. You can get an XM kit for $35.

    Yeah, I think I just have things I would rather do with the money. I'm glad you like it, but it doesn't add any value for me.
  • yankeryanker Member Posts: 156
    I have a n 03 Accord with 50000. Under warranty honda replaced the catalytic converter (it smelled) the back brakes and the radio. I have no fault to find with them. The stupid oxygen sensor had to replaced after warranty and that was a pain in the wallet. Overall with new tires YOKOHAMA) the car is a dream to drive 29mpg on expressway Moral don't buy the first year model if there are some major changes
  • goodegggoodegg Member Posts: 905
    No car is perfect. Even the top manufacturers somehow have a few lemons coming off the line.

    The rear brakes eh? Those should last a LONG time. Is yours a 4cyl or a 6?
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    Once again, I thought honda didn't charge for after warranty repairs?
  • auraownerauraowner Member Posts: 7
    After 25 years of owning nothing but Accords (78, 86, 98) I bought an Aura XR last month and I love it. I tested Camry, Accord, Mazda 6, Fusion, and Aura. The Aura was head and shoulders above all the other choices. It was tough to disabuse myself of my anti-American car bias, but it wasn't a tough decision once I compared all the cars.

    I love the power, comfort, ride, quiet interior, styling (interior and exterior) and the value. Terrific buying experience and $2250 in incentives. If you had told me that I would buy a Saturn a week before I did, I would have laughed. I set out to buy a Camry or another Accord, but forced myself to look at more than those cars and I'm glad I did. Camry and Accord are great cars. No brainer purchases. I found the Aura to be a better car and a better value. Time will tell if that was a good decision.

    If it weren't for having to replace the catalytic converter at 95k miles and the transmission at 142k miles on my 98 Accord, I probably wouldn't have looked at other cars.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    What I meant was the number of enthusiasts who care whether the V6 has 221 hp or 260 and who would consider buying a Fusion is relatively small and wouldn't make a big difference in overall sales. What the Fusion needs is a nicer interior and better fuel mileage and more features. The Camry doesn't sell 400k units a year to enthusiasts.

    In addition to the rumored 240 hp 3.0 there is a twin turbo 2.5L putting out 260 hp but hopefully getting better fuel mileage than comparable V6s. Of course if that happens you'll just find some other excuse to not like the Fusion.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Sarcasm noted (multiple times now). We get it, jd.
  • oldcemoldcem Member Posts: 309
    To a certain extent, I'm sure. However I think the low tech engines tolerate skimpy maintenance better. Over the years I've purchased other used vehicles that didn't die prematurely, but, they were all domestics - run of the mill Fords, Chevys, and Chryslers.

    Regards:
    OldCEM
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    The Brilliance BS6 sounds like anything but. Well, Brilliance, no, but BS yes. Didn't someone on this forum say the Chinese were going to be formidable? Looks like even Chrysler could compete with these cars.
    http://www.caranddriver.com/previews/13310/first-drive-2007-brilliance-bs6-driving-impressions-and-issues-page2.html
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    I won't do it anymore, just couldn't resist though. :P
  • jd10013jd10013 Member Posts: 779
    what did you like most about it? Or better yet, what ways did you find it superior to other cars you shopped for. what surprissed you the most?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    If it weren't for having to replace the catalytic converter at 95k miles and the transmission at 142k miles on my 98 Accord, I probably wouldn't have looked at other cars.

    Man tough crowd. In CA, the Cat is covered to over 100k by the emissions warranty, but a trans at 142k...man I don't know if you can get mad at the car for that, especially since it was an auto.
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