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Well, what I said was differences are less than many think and that CR only dislikes VWs based on reliability issues.
If I happened to like the Passat best amongst the midsize cars, reliability fears would not keep me from buying. Most (but not all) cars these days are reliable enough that it is a non-issue for me.
I love it when one is next to me at a red light and after it turns green, I hear that Ford V8 start to rumble. I'll scoot as fast as I possibly can up to the speed limit, wasting the cop car in the process, and then cruise along. Every single time I have tried this, without fail, the cop leaves it floored and absolutely blasts past me at 15-20 mph over the limit. If we get caught again at the next light, we just repeat. Every cop has repeated.
Don't peel tires, just floor it to the speed limit. Nothing illegal about that. And it is so much fun.
L
The i4 engines are great. Just add diesel fuel and change the timing belt at recommended interval and they go forever.
I second that! None of these cars are considered appliances, by the people who drive them. And none of these cars are true sports cars either.
L
We have had no problems with our I5, but at 21,000 miles or so that does not mean a whole lot...but it certainly is not burning oil.
My kid, just this week, bought a '96 Jetta I4 with just about 100K mi. I guess we'll be seeing if that one uses any oil...
Speak for yourself.
Yes, I don't drive at full bore 100% of the time, nor do I participate in SCCA events, but I'll buy a bicycle before settling for a softly-sprung land yacht because it "supposedly" suits the majority of my driving.
And yes, there's a LARGE difference between the way my 6 reacts when accelerating on a highway on-ramp (taut, composed) compared to a Camry and Accord (lots of body roll and lean). This, among lots of other day-to-day situations, make all the difference to me.
Owners of the SPEED6 or Legacy GT might want to argue with you about that. I know they aren't in the list of cars compared here but their prices are right in line with the V6 models of the two best sellers here and will put everything else to shame any day of the week and still serve as fully competent daily drivers.
Do you mean that the Accord and Camry react in a similar manner with regard to body roll and lean? And that the Accord is a land yatch compared to a 6?
Well, there is something missing here, because both these cars a collosal flops (which I am puzzled about, especially for the Speed6, which seems to be a very competent car). One would tend to think they would have a niche market, but clearly that's not happened. Also, these are not cheap cars, the reason one can buy them cheap is because the major discounts on them (which is a good thing for someone really wanting one of these). I am not saying that these are not good cars, but maybe drivers preffered (at least in case of the Speed6) the lighter V6 6, compared to the AWD Speed6? Never know how the market is going to react.
LOL, yeah right...
I have no argument about the 6 is the king of performance in the midsizer segment but it's not like it is in another class all by itself. The difference between the 6 and Accord is small but noticeable when push hard. Camry SE can hold its own against any car in this class as well. Okay, so the regular Camry is a yacht but it's mission is to satisfy a bigger crowd than the 6.
Oh, by the way, one of the difference between the V6 Mazda6, Accord V6 and Camry V6 on a highway on-ramp is that the 6 is get outrun by the other 2.
:P
BTW, the year end clearance at Honda has been great as well; I have seen fairly low prices for the Accord as its ends it current cycle. However, these wouldn't comapre with Mazda6 prices.
That's right, and I pointed that out. They do sticker, well equipped, somewhere around $30k which is also roughly the starting price for the sportiest Camry and next Accord. I say that for the latter because all reviews of it so far say the EX V6 will start at $30k. If your intentions are sporting then you are much better off with a SPEED6 or Legacy GT IMO. Those two are true sports cars and fall in this class.
If the 6 in question has an MTX then it will stay right with them particularly if the ramp has a curve in it which most do. At least around here anyway.
Not really, is the Accord has MT as well. Will still pull away.
Personally I like the size of the current Mazda6 and don't like the trend of making mid-sized cars larger (on the outside). The new Accord is 194" for gosh sakes! That's about 6" less than the huge Grand Caravan I had. And it was a cumbersome beast to park. Other automakers seem to be able to fit mid-sized space (even large-car space) into a smaller package. Maybe Honda should add a large sedan ala Avalon to its lineup so it can let the Accord play the role of mid-sized family sedan and keep it a decent size.
On by the way, the Accord (w/o sunroof only per louiswei) is a large car per EPA. It's the second car to the Sonata (w/ or w/o sunroof) classified as a large car by EPA, two and half years later. Which car will be next? Probably not the Mazda6.
Either way I'm beating both of them by A LOT even with my wife and two kids in the cabin. Curves, no curves, whatever.
L
I don't know why the others wouldn't, but that's what the story said.
I'm not saying honda can't pull it off, if anybody can it's probably them. But seems like a gutsy thing to do with their #1 vehicle
Interior volume is not always the best measure either. Somewhat lower roofline reduces interior volume, but does not change a mid-size to a compact no matter what EPA thinks. (Malibu is a mid-size and G6 is a compact per EPA.)
Adding a sunroof also does not convert a large car to a midsize.
While interior space is important, exterior dimensions, wheelbase. and weight are also important factors in classifying cars as these affect how it drives. EPA may think the Sonata and the Crown Vic are in the same size class, personally I think the 2 foot difference in length puts them in different classes.
Of course, actually EPA also recognizes this which is why they have market class which "groups together cars that are similar from the car buyer's perspective", in addition to the official EPA size classification based on interior volume. The "market class" sensibly puts the Sonata in the "family sedan" category and the Crown Vic in the "large sedan" category.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byclass.htm
As said before, It may work. Honda is usually very good at guessing the market. Just seems like a big risk to take with the #2 selling car in the country.
I also read that EX models (EX-L, EXV6 and EXLV6 models) will make up over 50 percent of sales this time.
That's what he was trying to say. The LX does not have a sunroof but the EX does. The sunroof takes away cubic inches from the interior because the height of the car stays the same but the inside of the ceiling is lower to allow for the sliding mechanism.
That reduction in cubic inches is enough to reduce the overall volume back to midsize in the EX.
Headroom of 2007 (front/rear): 40.4 / 38.5
Legroom of 2007 (f/r): 42.6 / 36.8
Looks like the only real gain in the 2008 in interior dimensions is driver's headroom which gains an inch. Legroom actually decreases in the back...
I didn't know the Honda does not offer a sunroof across the board in the Accord.
So, it still seems like the Accord shouldn't be considered "large" by Edmunds if so many Accord sales are for trims above LX.
Camry: 189.2
Accord: 194.1
I should have used a calculator the first time--it's actually almost 5-1/2", not 6-1/2". But if you see only 3", I guess you need glasses?
Bigger is better when it doesn't make the car a cumbersome size. The Camry and Sonata manage to house roomy interiors with less length. Actually, the Camry and Sonata are longer than I like/need. I prefer cars like the Elantra and Versa that are roomy inside (mid-sized car volume) but compact outside--in this case nearly a foot and a half shorter than the Accord. The Elantra puts more interior volume than the '07 Accord EX into 177 inches. I suppose some folks like big (long) cars, but I don't see the benefit unless it translates into more useable room. Parking spaces seem to be getting smaller, and I'm not accumulating less stuff in my garage every year.
I'm not going crazy, you did say the 08 Accord was 6-1/2" larger than the 07 Accord was (not the Camry and Sonata) :P . When it has grown only 3". These are your own words. And even though the 08 Accord is 5-1/2" longer than the Sonata or Camry, I don't see that making a big difference.
If 5-1/2" is not a big difference for you, that's great. I know that parking my 200" long van in my garage was a real squeeze sometimes. The Accord is 6" shorter, but I have more stuff in my garage now than I did when I owned the van. If I have choice between a "mid-sized sedan" that's 194" or one that's 177", I prefer the shorter, easier to park car. Or if I have a choice between two sedans that have about the same interior space, I prefer the one that's almost half a foot shorter.
I can't wait for the Gen 9 Accord--will probably give my old Grand Caravan a run for its money in length. :sick: Maybe it will have footrests in back though.
Of course, what not "compromising is", will be subject to interpertation.
An interesting fact pointed out in their review is that the first generation Accord had a 93 inch wheel base, which is shorter than the current Honda Fit.