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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    Congrats on your new ride! Seems as though it suits you well... and the manual tranny in the Accord is pretty awesome. Looking forward to your thoughts on the Honda...I think you're the only one on here w/ an 08. And since you had a similar car as I currently have, I'll be able to relate a bit more to your descriptions. Glad to have another poster here too!
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    robertsmx,

    I've got to laugh.

    Who with half a brain would buy a Viper if they were concerned with the MPG of the car? The Viper is already hit with the gas-guzzler tax.

    The Viper is about raw power, not MPG, interior room or cargo room. It's not meant to be a "practical car". It's in a specialty niche for those who can afford it in additon to their "normal" car.
  • phaetondriverphaetondriver Member Posts: 175
    2007 Accord LX 5-speed manual
    40 MPH ~ 1600 RPM
    50 MPH ~ 2000 RPM
    60 MPH ~ 2400 RPM
    70 MPH ~ 2800 RPM
    80 MPH ~ 3200 RPM
    90 MPH ~ 3600 RPM
    100 MPH ~ 4000 RPM

    Calculated number for 2008 Accord

    I-4/AT: 60=1950,
    70=2300
    80=2600
    V6/AT: 60=2050
    70=2400
    80=2750

    I-4/MT: 60=2200
    70=2600
    80=2950
    V6/MT: 60=2100
    70=2450
    80=2800

    Saturn Aura XR 6 sp Automatic
    60=1500
    70=1750
    80=2000

    So at 70 MPH my Aura XR is spinning 1050 RPM less than the '07 Accord I4MT
    650 RPM less than the 08 Accord V6AT
    700 RPM less than the 08 Accord V6MT

    Interesting, Thats 39000 Rev's per hour the XR saves compared to the Accord V6AT.
    That could be over 500,000 Rev's per 1000 miles. or 7.6 million rev's per year
    (15k miles per year), That could mean a couple years more life for the Saturn engine. That would be true if the engines were made of the same materials and maintenance was the same, and all the driving was done at 70 MPH, etc. etc. etc.
    Just food for thought :blush:
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Interesting and I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

    I haven't had a MT since 1983 but, as I recall, in a MT, X revs equaled Y MPH in each gear. In hilly CT, an AT can have different revs,in the same gear, at Y MPH depending upon whether the road is down hill, up hill or relatively flat.

    This would be due to the direct connection vs the fluid connection, I think. If I'm wrong please correct and explain.
  • phaetondriverphaetondriver Member Posts: 175
    Ever heard the term "Lock up Torque Converter"?
    It essentially makes a mechanical connection through the torque converter once a pre-programmed speed has been reached. Used to be, in the old days this didn't exist, then in the late 70's, I think, they figured a way to engage a latch of some sort which locked the two halves of the torque converter together once top gear was engaged and something like manifold vacuum was high.
    Today it's the transmissions computer that determines when to lock up occurs and it might even lock up in other than top gear.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    So at 70 MPH my Aura XR is spinning 1050 RPM less than the '07 Accord I4MT
    650 RPM less than the 08 Accord V6AT
    700 RPM less than the 08 Accord V6MT

    Interesting, Thats 39000 Rev's per hour the XR saves compared to the Accord V6AT.
    That could be over 500,000 Rev's per 1000 miles. or 7.6 million rev's per year
    (15k miles per year), That could mean a couple years more life for the Saturn engine. That would be true if the engines were made of the same materials and maintenance was the same, and all the driving was done at 70 MPH, etc. etc. etc.
    Just food for thought

    That is one big IF. Not applicable, in the "real world".
  • zzzoom6zzzoom6 Member Posts: 425
    It seems to me if there were a person who was thinking about buying a midsize sedan, they may want to simplify the choices from the many listed above to just a few. The way to do this would be to look at different ways to divide the category... here are some thoughts:

    Budget/ Value - Sonata (18k for a v-6?, i4 ?), Mazda6 (17k for a v-6 in pdx), Optima

    Reliability - Sonata, Accord, Legacy, Fusion (listed in no particular order...) - of course I have to add that the differences in reliability as reported by JD Powers and Consumer Reports over a 5 year period between the most reliable and below average vehicles in this class are separated by only a few percent over that five year period... in other words, I would suggest that most vehicles in this class are very reliable.

    Sportiness/ fun to drive - Altima, Legacy GT, Mazda6, Aura, Accord coupe (reviews suggest the 2 door as having a much more sporty suspension than the 4 dr), Camry SE (motortrend said this model was more sporty than the Accord...for what that's worth)

    Cargo Utility - Outback, Passat wagon, Mazda6 hatchback/ wagon

    Resale value - Accord, Camry

    Interior Quality - too subjective, but my faves are the Legacy, new Sonata, Accord, Aura

    Gas mileage - ? not really a stat that I've looked at too much, but I'm sure others here will know

    Safety - Legacy

    Ride Comfort - not too sure where to start with this since some would value a tomb like ride, others might like something with more connection. Also, one person may like a seat that another would find awful. But I think the people who would list this as one of their primary considerations would most likely prefer something that is smooth and quiet and not very engaging. Camry, Accord, Sonata.

    I'm sure my list is far from comprehensive, but I welcome comments and additions/ clarifications to this list. Of course many of these qualities are somewhat subjective, but if there are new readers of this forum, our comments may help make their choices easier if not get them to think about how to go about making their choice.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Sportiness/ fun to drive - Altima, Legacy GT, Mazda6, Aura, Accord coupe (reviews suggest the 2 door as having a much more sporty suspension than the 4 dr), Camry SE (motortrend said this model was more sporty than the Accord...for what that's worth)

    Hmm a full-size "personal coupe" as fun to drive...eh kind of screams Monte Carlo to me. Not that the Prelude was svelte either, but that is a large automobile. I think our base Legacy has a pretty active ride which is understandably too harsh for some, but it is fun for me to drive. My friend had a previous generation Camry SE and it was reasonably firm as well, and was a 4 cyl 5 spd combo with a "sport" suspension.
  • benderofbowsbenderofbows Member Posts: 542
    In my opinion, the number of revolutions an engine has accumulated is less important in terms of overall durability than the design of the engine and most importantly, proper maintenance (especially when the difference between the average RPM is something like 2200 versus 3200, when redline is over 6000). Of course, any engine can be adversely affected by operating outside it's design parameters.

    Honda engines are designed to rev. Look at Civic Si, S2000... even one of the new Accord I4 variants has a redline over 7000 RPM. And then there are Honda sport motorcycles...

    Think about the engines in your lawn mower, leaf blower, or a personal watercraft or outboard boat motor (all of which are also made by Honda). Those engines stay at very high RPM during most of their use and are not adversely affected because they are designed to operate in those conditions.

    Most Honda motors have always been this way, and it hasn't seemed to adversely affect their durability compared to larger displacement, lower-revving motors in the past. In short, I don't worry too much about revving my Honda!
  • SporinSporin Member Posts: 1,066
    Thanks zzzoom6. :shades:

    The Accord is quite a contrast to the 6, that's for sure.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    In short, I don't worry too much about revving my Honda!

    I agree 100% with that statement. Even though I loathed our '96 Civic for its lack of power anywhere south of 4000 RPM, it did rev willingly to the redline. We had problems with it almost everywhere else on the car, but the drive train required minimal maintenance even though we did rev it near the limit all the time just to climb hills and keep up with traffic.

    The only think I did differently was that I changed the oil more frequently. It did emit a burning oil smell from the tailpipe after a shorter period of time than other cars I've owned but I had no problem with that. Even that can be eliminated with different oils and additives now, neither of which were used by me. I just used plain old Pennzoil which isn't exactly the greatest oil in the world anymore from what I've read.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    In my opinion, the number of revolutions an engine has accumulated is less important in terms of overall durability than the design of the engine and most importantly, proper maintenance (especially when the difference between the average RPM is something like 2200 versus 3200, when redline is over 6000). Of course, any engine can be adversely affected by operating outside it's design parameters.

    I think you are right, I think the wear on a well maintained motor with clean motor oil is minimal from additional RPMs. Technological improvements have allowed for much tighter and better controlled tolerances and much less variation in manufacturing, resulting in substancial decreases in weight and friction. Short of cold starts and engineering failures, there is very little metal to metal contact.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    In particular, I would expect revs when cruising on the freeway to have a pretty insignifiacnt impact on engine life. The number of times it is started cold, regardless of the mileage driven would probably be a much bigger factor.

    Wouldn't it be nice, for used car shoppers, if in addition to miles cars would count the number of starts?
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Just a little pet peeve - RPM is already plural (Revolutions Per Minute) so you don't need to add a 's' to the end. It's additional RPM, not RPMs. And that wasn't directed at you - I've seen it several times.
  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    While engine design may very well minimize the effect of higher rpms, there can be little doubt that an engine wears faster at higher rpms than at lower rpms. It would very hard to conclude from this fact alone that the Saturn engine will last longer. But, its good food for thought. Nice post phaetondriver!

    [edit -- sorry for the rpm"s" :P ]
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    You are right, I was thinking revs and typed RPMs. Valid point.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Things are not quite that simple in reality. A higher revving engine is expected to be engineered around the fact that it will rev higher and more often. One can bet that Honda's F20C/F22C (S2000) uses greater design standards than the K24A (Accord) and both may last just a long, from wear and tear owing to RPM. Otherwise, one could make an argument that a 6AT will die before 4AT or 5AT does, as it requires more shifts.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    That has always made me wonder about "1 RPM". :blush:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    So the Aura engine will wear out at 300K, while the Honda wears out at 250K. That wouldn't be enough to make me go with an Aura.
  • phaetondriverphaetondriver Member Posts: 175
    While engine design may very well minimize the effect of higher rpms, there can be little doubt that an engine wears faster at higher rpms than at lower rpms. It would very hard to conclude from this fact alone that the Saturn engine will last longer. But, its good food for thought.

    Food for thought and discussion is why I asked the question in the first place.
    I know most cars today have engines and transmissions that lasts for 100's of thousands of miles when maintained properly and driven with care, which I am sure everyone on this forum does :blush:

    Fact: Every revolution of the engine causes some wear some place. Oil does not cover every part 100% of it's surface when pressure is applied.

    Fact: Every revolution of the engine generates heat because of the parts rubbing against one another. If the parts didn't rub against one another we wouldn't need a radiator full of coolant or a water pump or an oil cooler or a transmission oil cooler.

    Wear might only a molecule or two per 1000 rev's but it is still wear. A fact of life you can't avoid, just do what you can to minimize it :)

    Point: Do whatever you can to reduce friction in the engine and transmission and the engine/trans will last even longer. As someone posted they will both probably last well over 250,000 Kilometers (how about 250,000 miles?). I use a PTFE based additive to help, it works to keep temps down and it helps with the gas mileage too.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    But do you think all designs are created equal? Here is a food for thought, based on one of the "facts" you provided.

    Every revolution of the engine causes some wear some place. Oil does not cover every part 100% of it's surface when pressure is applied.

    Honda B18C used in Integra GS-R had a unique honey-comb cylinder lining. It was engineered to rev higher than a typical engine is. You can't apply a generic statement while ignoring facts like these.

    Would you say that Aura XR's transmission having to shift 2-3 times more than XE's for same effect will drastically reduce its durability? Or do you think the fact that it has to shift is already incorporated in the design?
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    All revolutions are not created equal. A rev in a warm engine cruising along at 2000 or 3000 rpm will cause less wear than a rev in a cold engine that has just started and is running at that same speed. Haven't I read that the vast majority of engine wear occurs in the first couple miles after starting a cold engine???

    What if the engine life, if it is always warm and always running at 2000 is equivalent to 3,000,000 miles. Then if it runs at 3000 rpm instead, the same number of revs would get you 2,000,000 miles. In which case there is a difference but it is meaningless in the real world.
  • chronochrono Member Posts: 149
    The flaw in your analogy is that your comparing two different transmissions. A 4sp and a 6sp auto. Looks like the comparison was on more equal footing when talking about the two V6 engines. Does the Accord have a honeycomb cylinder lining? Not that I've read. So far the facts show the Accord engine revs higher then the Aura's. What major design advantages does the Accord V6 have to prove it would offset the wear of revving higher? VCM? Doesn't all the stopping and starting cylinders actually cause more wear?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Ha, thank you. :) "MPGs" gets me, also. And then there is the misused apostrophe problem, but I'd best not get started. :P
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    What major design advantages does the Accord V6 have to prove it would offset the wear of revving higher? VCM? Doesn't all the stopping and starting cylinders actually cause more wear?

    A cylinder is a the hole the piston goes into; it doesn't move, so it couldn't be started or stopped. The piston goes up and down (or left and right if you are a Porsche or Subaru) and is connected to the crank via a connecting rod, which is pinned at the piston and bolted to the crank about a bearing. There is currently no healthy way for a single piston to be stopped in a multi-cylinder motor. It can be de-activated by cutting fuel and or spark (as a rev limiter does, except this would be on a single cylinder), but the piston would still travel the stroke of the cylinder. I would imagine Honda would use its VTEC control to hold the valves open during compression strokes to prevent more drag (or intake strokes to prevent vacuum), but oil pressure would remain constant so there would be no effective difference with respect to wear.
    If anything, the piston, pins, and crank bearings would last longer since they will not all be exposed to the force associated with combustion all the time.
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Ha, thank you. "MPGs" gets me, also. And then there is the misused apostrophe problem, but I'd best not get started.

    I guess that would technically be MsPG, right? :)
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I guess that would technically be MsPG, right?

    Either that or if MPGs is used, the follow-up question: How many gallons? should be asked ;) .
  • captain2captain2 Member Posts: 3,971
    well, of course, a 4 cylinder engine revs higher to produce any given requirement for HP simply because there is almost always going to be less available torque. Torque is a number more directly related to an engine's size, no. of cylinders(reciprocating mass) , and bore/stroke geometries. To assume that a V6 should last longer than a 4 is also strange - after all the V6 has more moving parts that might break. Further, I would also suggest that if we are talking about something like a Honda manufactured 4 banger vs. a GM V6, there are more than enough quality of materials differences and engineering acumen involved in the designs of the respective engines to sway any sort of longevity concerns in the direction of the Honda engine, IMO. But a fact generally supported by the reliability histories, I believe.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Why I am not surprised? So, you think comparing two transmissions is flawed but comparing two engines is valid. That sounds like a convenient assumption but seriously flawed.

    When an example is provided to illustrate a point, it shouldn’t be taken to the point that you believe it is the same design that the example provided. Or else, you will continue to miss the point. No, the Accord V6 doesn’t rev to 8000 rpm, so why must it?

    Or perhaps, I could feed the same medicine and stick to the “only engines can be compared logic”. Well, Accord’s V6 is a simpler design, and it uses two camshafts versus four in Aura. Now, doesn’t that make Aura V6 more vulnerable in that regard, with more moving parts? Or, is this argument flawed as well?

    VCM doesn’t work the way you think it does. It works by keeping the pistons running and spark plugs are still fired. Only the valves are kept shut. This allows instantaneous transition into V6 mode (from I-3 or V4 mode) when needed. Why would this cause more wear than engine that has explosions going on in all pistons at all times?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    What (and which post) were you laughing at? Share it with us.

    And while you still might be, why skip-shift in Corvette's transmission? (In case you aren't aware, it is a transmission logic to help improve EPA rating by 1-4 shift instead of traditional shifting pattern under low throttle situations which happens to encompass all but one of EPA's test cycles).

    Please have a perspective before you speak.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Good list. I'd add the following:

    Budget/Value: Need to add the Fusion (starts around $15k real-world pricing) and also add the Elantra and Sentra--low-priced options for people who want mid-sized interior room but don't mind an I4 and compact exterior dimensions.

    Reliability: I think you have to add the Camry I4 here--there's nothing yet to suggest that it isn't reliable. Also the Milan of course.

    Gas mileage--this is almost too close to call, with several cars e.g. Accord, Altima, Camry, Optima, Sonata being within about 1 mpg of each other. I suppose we could say the ultimate mpg champ here is the Prius (it IS mid-sized), and the Camry and Altima hybrids.

    Safety: Have to include the Accord here--it has top scores in all the IIHS tests and is one of their "top picks", and it has standard ESC with traction control across the lineup. I think the Sonata should get honorable mention because it's the only car in the group other than the Accord to offer ESC + traction across the board.

    Ride comfort: really is personal, but I think the Fulan's ride is quite nice also. Haven't driven the Aura, Malibu, or Altima yet.
  • chronochrono Member Posts: 149
    VCM doesn’t work the way you think it does. It works by keeping the pistons running and spark plugs are still fired. Only the valves are kept shut. This allows instantaneous transition into V6 mode (from I-3 or V4 mode) when needed. Why would this cause more wear than engine that has explosions going on in all pistons at all times?

    Thanks for clarifying that. Should have done the research instead of making an assumption. I think the main pt. was that an engine that rev's higher will cause more engine wear then another that rev's lower? I think it would to some degree.
    Aren't F1 engines lifespans drastically shorter since they rev really high?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    F1 engines are race engines. Their is no need to design them to last longer than they do. Instead, focus is on making them lighter and smaller but with big power. Some of the experience does trickle down to "normal" cars.

    Like anything that is properly designed, engines are designed to exceed a tolerance level. And it is determined by the application. A higher revving engine will use a different spec than one that is lower revving design. In Honda's world, F22C (S2000) would have been engineered to different specs and criterias than N22A (Accord Diesel). One redlines at 4500 rpm, the other will scream to 8000 rpm. The priorities are different, hence the design decisions. A 2.2-liter engine isn't going to have same design regardless of how high or low it revs.

    This is fundamental to engineering anything well.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Fact: Every revolution of the engine generates heat because of the parts rubbing against one another. If the parts didn't rub against one another we wouldn't need a radiator full of coolant or a water pump or an oil cooler or a transmission oil cooler.

    If the friction from moving parts, was the only heat generated, an engine would not need a radiator. An oil pump and oil would suffice. It's those explosions inside the cylinders, that make it necessary to use a radiator full of coolant.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    I believe bhmr59 was referencing the statement you made "Viper is geared that tall not because it has torque, but because its fuel economy would suck if it were geared shorter", observing that in his opinion a Viper owner would not be concerned with FE.

    But it doesn't matter because neither the Viper nor the Corvette are relevant to this discussion, so let's drop this and get back to the subject.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No, I don't think so, because the "M" in MPG already represents "miles". I like what jeffyscott said - MPGs means we should wonder miles per exactly how many gallons? Obviously more than one! :P
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Did I bring up Viper, and its "excellent" gas mileage?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    You asked what the poster was talking about. I took a quote directly from this post: robertsmx, "Midsize Sedans 2.0" #7602, 28 Nov 2007 2:55 pm to answer your question and (attempt to) head off further off-topic discussion.

    Enough, please. If you have more to say, please email me, this does not belong here.
  • phaetondriverphaetondriver Member Posts: 175
    MPGs means we should wonder miles per exactly how many gallons? Obviously more than one!
    Only car I can think of the qualifies for M(singular)PG's(plural) is a 3000+ HP top fuel dragster or alcohol dragster.
    They get about 20 gal/mile of fuel, not gasoline :D
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    You somehow missed this. Now, go ahead and delete this post for it being OT.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Here's a good example of 8000 rpm and 300K miles co-existing on an original (1991) engine. This is currently a daily driver. And if you happen to be in Dallas-Ft Worth Area, an Acura dealership has an on-display car with over 700K miles to go with 8000 rpm.

    So, it ain't all about rpm, but design and engineering, and considerations to durability. Besides, the last thing I would worry about in a Honda (Accord) will be its engine.
  • phaetondriverphaetondriver Member Posts: 175
    I have read this post over and over and I can't figure it out.
    Honda B18C used in Integra GS-R had a unique honey-comb cylinder lining. It was engineered to rev higher than a typical engine is. You can't apply a generic statement while ignoring facts like these.

    I don't understand "honey-comb lining." I am thinking it is something like the Crinkle Chrome applied to some cross county motorcycle racing engines back in the 70's. It was a super smooth, supper hard, chrome-molly alloy plating with a spider web of microscopic fractures which held on to the oil better reducing friction of rings to cylinder walls.

    You mention "apply generic statement while ignoring facts like these" but I don't see any facts in your statement.
    Are you saying that an engine with a honey-comb cylinder doesn't have any friction anywhere in the engine? I know from your other posts you are way to knowledgeable to state an assumption like that and I won't assume that is what you were saying.
    I just am missing the facts you elude to, I guess. Maybe you could describe the facts to me more clearly?

    Other post on this thread have made statements along the lines that RPM has no effect on Honda engines. Honda must have figured out how to completely eliminate metal on metal contact in an engine, which would be the greatest discovery of the 20th century, and maybe the 21st . With this technology we can solve the oil crisis because we wont need it for lubrication of anything in the future. :D
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No I didn't miss that - you addressed someone who had replied to you and asked why. I showed you why. My goodness you can make a mountain of a molehill!! :) Could we please move on?
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Other post on this thread have made statements along the lines that RPM has no effect on Honda engines. Honda must have figured out how to completely eliminate metal on metal contact in an engine, which would be the greatest discovery of the 20th century, and maybe the 21st . With this technology we can solve the oil crisis because we wont need it for lubrication of anything in the future.

    I don't think they own the market on reducing friction in an internal combustion or compression ignition motor. I think the design of the piston itself, the design of the cylinder wall, the way the rings seat and the material they are made of, and the coatings they use on the cylinders, pistons, and rings helps too. Modern con-rod bearings seem to show almost no wear after hundreds of thousands of miles if the oil was maintained.

    The Contour held 5.7 qts of oil while the Accord held 3.8 qts. Because the Contour was tracked, it got synthetic, but I didn't have an issue with either one. I wanted to make sure there was something protecting the bearings when the vehicle was oil-starved during hard cornering, so synthetic seemed like the way to go. 180k later it was fine, and that was high load, high RPM driving.
    I personally am not worried about revs in a motor, as long as its within its factory limits (if you start reving a 7500 RPM redline motor to 10k you might have an issue). In my opinion, manufacturing tolerances are tight enough between all manufacturers.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Molehill Mountain That would be a great title for a blog.

    Suggestion for new topic for today's discussion, "Which midside car has the best automatic climate control system?"

    I'll start with saying the Mazda6 is not the winner.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Suggestion for new topic for today's discussion, "Which midside car has the best automatic climate control system?"

    Never had it. Too entertaining to sit there and battle with Mrs. LilEngineerBoy over the temperature control knob. Okay, not really, but it wasn't until recently that we had 2 cars that had Air Conditioning, let alone climate control.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    I firmly believe that ANY modern engine whether build and designed by Honda or Hyundai or Ford (except the 3.8 V-6 of blown headgasket fame) or GM (except the original aluminum block Vega 4 cyl. OR the diesel V-8 conversion from the 80's) or Chrysler will far outlast the original owner and probably several additional owners as well so questions of longevity up to at least 150K miles are a moot point. Of course, all talk of engine longevity is assuming the owner changes the oil, filters,plugs etc. once in a while and if one neglects even a Honda engine this will result in far reduced life. Anyhow, if you really want to talk high mileage I have had several and NONE were Honda. We had a 1988 Plymouth Horizon with 240K miles (2.2 liter 4 cyl.) a 1987 Taurus with perhaps the greatest engine Ford ever made...the Vulcan 3.0 V-6 that had a bit over 300K miles when sold and another 87 Taurus, same engine with 187 K miles when sold, a 1979 Subaru with over 300K miles when sold, and currently I drive a 1995 Dodge Stratus 2.5 liter V-6 that has 197,047 miles and counting....oh yeah, my son drives a 2000 Hyundai Elantra that had 172,167 miles when I last saw it and since he is racking up miles to the tune of 100 per day minimum probably a lot more now. All but the Horizon (which finally suffered a blown headgasket) were driven away and were used by the latest buyer when I sold them and all were reliable with no clanking or excessive oil use and all were as quiet as when they were 10's of thousands of miles newer. All this to say Honda does not have a lock on engine reliability OR longevity.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    On the list of things I don't worry about, the longevity of my Accord's engine is #1. On the list of things Honda knows, building engines is #1. Assuming that the Aura's engine will last longer, because it will turn less rpm would be mistake, and I certainly would not bet on it.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,146
    >I firmly believe that ANY modern engine whether build and designed by Honda or Hyundai or Ford

    I agree with your post. You stated the point very well.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • bug4bug4 Member Posts: 370
    With regard to climate control, the auto. climate control on my 08 Accord EX-L works great and I have no complaints. Ms. Bug4 loves to put her temperature 10-12 degrees hotter than mine. The system handles the temperature gradient very well and, because the interior is so large or for whatever other reason, the system seems to be able to maintain significantly different temperatures from one side to the other. Other than its initial attempts to get the car up to temperature, I'm impressed with how quietly it operates! Now, having said that, I haven't had anyone in the back seat for an extended trip. So, who knows, maybe the climate in the back seat is unbearable?? I am disappointed the new Accords don't have any duct work to the back seats!
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