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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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    hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    Man are you on the money, one hell of a post.
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    bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    backy, you left out some things...some of us (me especially) are not mechanically inclined. It's far less expensive for me to pay someone else to "do it right" than mess up the job and make it more expensive to fix.

    Some people may make more per hour than they pay per hour to have an trained person do the work for them.

    And, of course, I'd rather spend my free time on the golf course, playing with my grandkids or even having a beer with friends (lol) than crawling under a car scraping my knuckles & cussing my head off.
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    aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Thanks!

    As most of you know, I own a 2005 Mazda6. The current Mazda6 is not due out until late this year, and I really do believe Mazda has their work cut out for them. The 2009 Mazda6 is already done, and we have seen it, but, I just hope it is enough to keep me as a customer. Every mfgr is really stepping up their game.
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Why wasn't it at the New York Auto Show?

    Is it going to ever debut?
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    mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    As a KIA Optima owner I was surprised that you neglected to mention my brand. It is a worthy automobile.
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    ...some of us (me especially) are not mechanically inclined.

    Ditto on that. I always laugh at the claim that "the only way you know it is done right is to do it yourself". Instead for me that would pretty much ensure that it was done wrong :) .

    In addition, I have to believe that in some cases the do-it-yourselfer may convince him or herself that they did it right, when they actually did it wrong :surprise:.
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    In addition, I have to believe that in some cases the do-it-yourselfer may convince him or herself that they did it right, when they actually did it wrong .

    There are plenty of people who do their own maintenance, and don't do it right. They think changing the coolant is as simple as drain the old coolant out, and pour new coolant in. It's far from that simple. There is a procedure to follow (bleeding the air from the system, and circulating the coolant through the heating system). With a factory service manual, some basic tools, and a little know-how, an owner with common sense can save loads of cash on basic maintenance.
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    aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    To be honest, I did not check out the Kia section. I tried to hit every mfgr in detail, but, it just didn't happen
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    aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    No, it was not. It is debuting at the north american dealer meetings for Mazda in Denver, CO in late April.
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    The Optima facelift was a nice touch. The show-stopper from Kia had to be the Koup concept - fantastic looking, and, even more impressive specs - 2.0t w/ DI 290hp/289 lbs-tq.
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    joe97joe97 Member Posts: 2,248
    Any specific reason as to why Mazda chose to skip the whole North American Auto Show 2007-2008 circuit?
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    aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That, my friend, is the $1,000,000 question that no one seems to know the answer to.
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    hackdhackd Member Posts: 65
    Last time I checked this was a forum which basically means I am allowed to express my opinions to any post...I wasn't speaking for hp6130...I was speaking for myself and that is my argument. Same way I guess you are speaking on targettunning's posts.

    Also, as I previously mentioned I thought the Sonata was a decent car so why would it miff me that he likes the Sonata? Like I said previously in this mid size price segment it is really hard to make a bad choice as most of the cars bring a lot to the table. I am not sure how that comment is stirring the pot...to me it is just the opposite.
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    If you wish to spar verbally, please exchange e-mails and leave the rest of us out of it. First, it's really boring; second, it's off-topic, and personally-directed comments aren't appropriate per our Membership Agreement.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Has ANYONE driven this car lately?
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    Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    Mitsubishi is a car company whose existence I forget about until I happen to see a commercial. Last time I was in a Galant was about 8 years ago, and I actually liked it. So I'd also be interested in impressions of the current version.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Well, I saw one today and thought I'd bring it up as a fresh topic on a stale car.
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    maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    A couple in my neighborhood here just got an 09 with the facelifted front and rear. The new rear looks WAY better this year...and the front grile loses the "tooth" section in the middle of the grille (anyone every notice Nissan and Mitsubishi picked that trait up around the same time here in the states and both are kinda dropping it now too) Interior has some smoky gray wood trim that is nice on an otherwise poorly built, cheapy material lookin interior.
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I haven't driven the current gen but rode in one not long ago. Seemed solid enough, ride was OK, but nothing special. The thing I remember most was how cheap the interior materials seemed. Very plasticky. And this was the uplevel trim--had leather. Since Mitsubishi is basically an afterthought in the U.S. car market, and I always wonder how long they'll be around here, I don't see any compelling reason to get a Galant vs. any number of other alternatives in this class.

    I did own a 1992 Galant (bought used) and it was fine. I recall around that time that the Galant was one of the top-rated cars in its class. I don't think that has been the case for some time. I rented a previous-gen Galant a couple of years ago and thought it was actually quite a pleasant-driving car, albeit with a tight back seat for a mid-sizer. But again, no compelling reason to get one over many others in this ultra-competitive class.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I had quite a bit of experience with Mitsubishi in the DSM era. When the Galant became a fleet car and they added body side cladding to the Eclipse to appeal to young women/old men (its creepy how similar that demographic is) and dropped any type of powerful drivetrain, I stopped following them.
    I had great experience with them up to that point though, they kinda pulled a Subaru and just stopped making anything of interest to me.
    I did get to play with the top of the line Galant at the NAIAS this year. IIRC, it had paddle shifters for its slushbox, and a moderately sized touch screen in the center stack (mounted high and visible) with a functional but dull menu structure. I remember liking the steering wheel and the seats, but that was only sitting in it while taking measurements at the show.
    It felt comfortable enough to sit in, I am not sure about driving dynamics, and not being a manual its not of interest to me personally, but it seemed like it had a reasonable amount of gadgetry for the price.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    did own a 1992 Galant (bought used) and it was fine. I recall around that time that the Galant was one of the top-rated cars in its class.

    It was car of the year when introduced in 1989. In 1991-92 it was available with the Eclipse GSX drivetrain in addition to 4 wheel steering, and dubbed the Galant VR4. It was competing against the Subaru Legacy GT (a 2.2l turbo) and Dodge Spirit R/T of the day ( and to a lesser degree, the Taurus SHO).
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
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    karsickkarsick Member Posts: 312
    Not much of the EVO's magic rubs off on the rest of the Mitsu lineup, huh?

    Give me a fire-breathing 1995 EVO III on a WRC special stage ANY day :P :P
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    elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    If the tail lights were all red, I'd think I was looking at a 2000 Camry. The front looks like an Optima grill with a combination of Fusion/Altima head lights. It's different, but hard to say if it's better or worse than the previous iteration. :confuse:
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    hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    Took extended test drives in altima, camry and accord. The altima has been eliminated, very nice car but we want to make a decision soon. I had the honda dealer loan us a car for the day, even though we are very familiar with camry, I plan on doing the same thing with the 09 camry.. While at the honda dealer, I asked to take out a V-6. Very impressed, the VCM was barely noticeable to me, in this particular car.When my wife was driving she did not even know what the hell I was talking about.The honda dealer will sell either car at invoice, that's a drop of $463 from his first offer on the 4cyl. The camry xle (msrp. $ 28149) can be bought for $24800. That's almost $200 less than fitzmall. I've noticed that fitzmall has dropped their price on this particular camry by almost $700 in the last 4 weeks.
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    karsickkarsick Member Posts: 312
    I'm a big believer in buying most of the latest safety gear on cars (ABS, side & curtain airbags, namely). I even look forward to the day when Distronic-type systems are widespread & can alert drivers of a possible impending crash.

    However, I just don't see a great need for Stability Control on relatively low, wide, long sedans with a low center of gravity.

    I can clearly see the use of ESC on tall SUV-type vehicles, as every long trip I take in icy conditions reveals that the ONLY cars to ever tip over are SUV's.

    Am I alone in seeing only marginal need for such a feature? :confuse:
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Stability control isn't needed just to prevent rollovers; it is intended to help maintain driver-control of the car by preventing understeer or oversteer which could leave you in a ditch or guardrail. I know after being caught in a hailstorm in which the road was coated with ice, the VSA equipped Honda Odyssey I was driving maintained control, while the little yellow light flickered away. The car was braking individual wheels as needed to keep me in my lane.
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    lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Stability control is a tool that provides assistance to drivers under various conditions. Its just a tool. Different implementations are more critical than others - high profile/high center of gravity vehicles like SUVs, minivans, and especially full size vans, I think are low hanging fruit. I think there is a great deal of benefit there.
    I also think entry level vehicles typically driven by younger less experienced drivers could benefit from that type of assistance.
    I also think there are times when road conditions are poor enough (weather, generally crummy road, mountainous driving sometimes) that it would be nice if most people had a vehicle equipped with a driver assistance system.
    I think the issue comes with how the system is implemented; how invasive or how hard to defeat is it? How well does it figure out that it needs to let the driver do more and it do less (very low traction situations, ABS on snow, etc)?
    I think that most of the time, it compensates for driver error by lowering the overall limits of the vehicle, but that might be a fair trade off.
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    karpediemkarpediem Member Posts: 46
    The altima has been eliminated, very nice car but we want to make a decision soon.

    I don't get this part. :confuse:
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I don't get this part. :confuse:

    Maybe they didn't like it? :confuse
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    motoguy128motoguy128 Member Posts: 146
    Maybe when compared to the Camry and Accord, the Altima is the odd man out. It's smaller, more exciting and sporty desing inside and out, less of a boring family sedan... hat's exactly why we bought it. It has more "spunk". I'll trade a little softer ride and a darker interior for a car that's more fun to drive.

    Maybe they wanted a true 4 cylinder. The Altima 2.5L is so torquey and responsive, that you almost have trouble calling is a 4-banger ,compared to the shorter stroke, rev happy Honda 2.4L.

    I'm suprisd they didn't look a the hyundai Sonata. I was fairly impressed with eh overall quality.
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    kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Maybe when compared to the Camry and Accord, the Altima is the odd man out. It's smaller, more exciting and sporty desing inside and out, less of a boring family sedan

    Maybe. I don't like the exterior looks, interior looks or the way it drives. And can't seem to get rid of the images of problem plagued Altima of just a few years ago from my head.

    Myself, I would rather drive a "boring" old Accord.
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    hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    The altima was eliminated because she just liked the camry and accord more and she felt they had bigger interiors, especially in the back seat. We are leaning towards the accord because you can get black leather in a silver car, camry xle has light gray. I don't get these car manufacturers sometime, we always liked white cars, honda puts ivory leather in their car and toyota puts beige or very light gray in theirs. ( really stupid combinations) We could get a stronger deal on the 09 xle, but the gray interior just sucks. The black looks so much richer. thanks
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    motoguy128motoguy128 Member Posts: 146
    Ironically, we bought a silver Altima 2.5SL with a black leather interior. Its' really sharp in black. The headliner and upper plastic parts of the car are light beige, so it's not too dark.

    I agree the rear is a little smaller, but it wasn't a deal breaker for us.
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    fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Has ANYONE driven this car lately?

    I drive mine almost every day. But it is a prior-gen 1999 LS with the 3L V6. With 138K miles it's been more reliable than my previous Mazda, Toyota, and Nissan vehicles. I still get 22-25 (winter-summer) City & 27-28 Highway.

    I read the forums and stay interested in cars more as a hobby as the newer cars have relatively few features that would convince me to take on a payment. And while mileage is improving, it isn't by much and certainly doesn't do much to overcome the added expense of buying a new vehicle.

    The tight back seat someone mentioned is certainly a legit gripe. Doesn't impact me much as I rarely have more than one passenger. I suspect it happened because '99 was the first year the Galant moved from compact to midsize. I originally went to the dealer to look at the Diamante but found I liked the then-new Galant much better. The main car it was up against was the TL. The TL was nicer but in a bland, or many I should say monotonous, way and still had a cramped rear seat. In the end the only compelling benefit of the Acura was traction control and potentially brand cache but they weren't dealing and those minor premiums would have run over $8K more than the Galant so Mitsu got my business.

    I never cared for the Galant's '04 redesign but this year's refresh does a lot to improve the look. Still, I'd rather stare at a Lancer in my garage than the new Galant. If only I could get sufficient WAF* to get the Evo.

    *WAF = Wife Acceptance Factor

    I'd easily buy another Mitsu as long as they offered the right product for my requirements. The '04+ Galant is not the right product.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
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    busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I hope you like your Altima, and also that you get great service from it.
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    hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    No doubt about it the altima has come along way, very nice car.
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    karsickkarsick Member Posts: 312
    Was driving through Sedona AZ a couple weeks back, and there was a sign outside of a local business advertising that they will "cleanse my aura."

    Talk about a niche business! :confuse:

    Do you suppose they would consider cleansing a Malibu, too, since they share so much under the skin?
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    iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    you are one of just a few or the only one I have seen who has a Mitsubishi Galant and has commented on this forum. Nice to hear that you like your '99 Mitsubishi Galant LS. I, too, am impressed with my Mitsubishi at my house, though mine is a '08 Lancer GTS. I grow more impressed by the car every day.

    I am here to observe the midsize car "wars" and sometimes the arrows start flying and it's edu-macational to see what bothers people about a particular brand or what impresses them about a particular car or brand. It appears to me that Mitsubishi builds a solid car and SUV and the L200 is a very impressive truck as well. Mitsubishi keeps winning the Dakar Rallies and then incorporates lessons-learned improvements in their cars they build after the Rallies. I think they are very industrious workers and very good engineers at Mitsubishi and very accomplished car builders. If I wanted a mid-sizer I'd give the new world order Mitsubishi Galant a long, hard look, indeed. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

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    kartezkartez Member Posts: 48
    Is there any way the title of this forum could be changed to include other mid-size sedans? Aura and Malibu are clones and Mazda6/Fusion and Optima/Sonata share platforms so I think the model list can be changed to include other sedans. I am a big fan of the Passat and I think it should be included as well as the Galant.

    What do you think?
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    mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Is there any way the title of this forum could be changed to include other mid-size sedans? Aura and Malibu are clones and Mazda6/Fusion and Optima/Sonata share platforms so I think the model list can be changed to include other sedans. I am a big fan of the Passat and I think it should be included as well as the Galant.

    As it's been discussed repeatedly, the midsize column isn't just limited to the models listed at the top of the page. We'll be happy to include any discussion of the Galant, Passat, Legacy, and even the Avenger/Sebring twins.

    In fact, let me start by saying that with what I've seen/heard about the upcoming '09 Passat, I'm impressed. Now if they get their quality/reliability up to par with the rest of the class...
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Actually the Sonata and Optima share 4-cylinder powertrains (with the Optima catching up this fall with the improved I4 that's in the 2009 Sonata), but that's about it.

    And the Mazda6 and Fusion/Milan platforms will diverge soon with the introduction of the 2009 Mazda6.

    Aura and Malibu (and G6) share a platform, but the tuning and results are so different that I don't think they can be considered clones.
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    thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I am a big fan of the Passat and I think it should be included

    Isn't the Passat included in the "Mainstream Large Sedans" comparison? I've always thought of it being compared to the Avalon and Azera due to pricing.
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    hp6130hp6130 Member Posts: 49
    My wife and I decided on the 2008 honda accord ex-l 4cyl., silver exterior w/ black interior. Straight sale, no trade. I'll inherit the 03 camry xle. We really liked both cars, camry and accord, but the black leather interior in the accord, looked so much richer than the ash grey in the camry. What really made it tough, was the fact that we got stronger pricing (bigger discount) on the 09 camry xle. After driving 3 camry's during the past 14 yrs., I'll be curious how my wife likes the accord, long term. Dealing w/ Piazza Honda in Reading Pa., was a very nice experience. Thanks for everyone's input.
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    patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    We can talk about the Passat here, we have in the past. It's more expensive than most (all?) of these midsize vehicles, but afaik, this is where it fits size-wise. (As always, correct me if I'm wrong. :))
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    jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    If I use edmunds car finder to look for midsize sedans in the $15,000 to $25,000 price range, the Passat makes the list with starting MSRP of $23,990...which is just behind the Hyundai Azera's $25,600 :surprise: .
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    $24,600 for Azera, not including destination (which wasn't included in the Passat's $23,990 price). FWIW, the Azera is a V6 with AT at that price, the Passat a turbo four stick.
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    aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Is it me, or does it seem that there are a lot more last gen Passats on the road then the 2006+. I hardly see any. The ones I do see are the 2.0T. I don't think I have ever seen a VR6. Anyone know the sales figures for 2007?
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    backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Consider that the last-gen Passat was sold for, how many years? Seven or eight? Whereas the current Passat has only been out for a couple of years. But I don't see too many of them on the road either. Maybe it has something to do with the heightened competition in the mid-sized class since the previous-gen Passat debuted in the late '90s. Lots of good choices now, less expensive than the Passat. Also I wonder if the Jetta is taking sales from the Passat, since the current Jetta is bigger than it used to be.
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