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Midsize Sedans 2.0

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Comments

  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Cell phone navigation may not be for everybody, it works perfectly for me and I never have to worry about software updates. And my navigation device is always with me. And it supports bluetooth and mp3s.

    I am glad to hear from someone who has used this service. I made sure both of my daughters had NAV compatible phones from Verizon, just in case they ever needed to use them.

    "Portability on the hip" is a definite advantage that this implementation offers...
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I don't think the average dumb punk that is smashing and grabbing the portable navs is going up to the car window and taking the time to see just what model/brand the unit is. I think they just drive through lots and see one and jump out, smash the window, grab the unit and get out of of Dodge. They probably do this all the time and realize that some are not worth what others are worth but work the average.
    I have read that they are smart enough however to realize that the owners of these items just remove from the holder and put in the center console or glove compartment. So they are even going as far as looking for the telltale suction cup marks on the windshield and if they see it, they are breaking in to see if the unit is in the car. If not, they steal whatever else is available.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Its my opinion that anyone who thinks that crooks are stupid have that opinion at their own peril. Auto break-ins are the stuff of daily news shows here in South Carolina, and much more so in highly urbanized areas.

    I also have a portable Garmin,and there is NO WAY that I would leave it unattended in a car, even in my driveway, doors locked and all. I don't even leave coins out in the open...

    Why would anyone tempt a thief to break a window (or do much worse) by leaving an attractive device out in plain view? And, like you stated, even if all that is visible is the mount, a thief knows the unit is more than likely also in the vehicle...
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    In my area, they are breaking out windows of cars that have the telltale suction cup marks on the windshield. Doesn't matter if they can see the unit or not - nor does it matter how old it is. If the unit is with the owner and not in the car, obviously it doesn't get stolen, but the owner still needs to deal with the damage.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    You can't tell me "no you don't need an unlimited plan" because I have used it and seen the prices and got the bill. You need an unlimited plan one way of the other. Sprint has a Power Pack package that gives you unlimited data and unlimited for a fixed price, but it isn't $9.99 per month. It's $30 on top of the voice plan. AT&T charges $9.99 per month for navigation, but you need unlimited data plan or you will be charged per kb and it will get very expensive. It isn't practical to use it without an unlimited data plan.

    Even if you personally have a special deal, it isn't the norm and exceptions aren't helpful to most people.

    Regardless, even if it was only $9.99 on top of a standard voice plan and no extra cost data was needed, cost wasn't the major issue and wouldn't change the experience at a different price, so it doesn't matter now.

    Since it was a little bit of a hassle to hide the portable nav from theft, I decided to see if any alternatives would be worth it. I tried the cellphone based service and I lost access to navigation when I was out of the coverage area and I lost the navigation when I needed to answer or make a call. The database they use for business lookup was poor even though it's on their servers and they could update if they were inclined to, but have elected not to. That is too much inconvenience even for a cheap price.

    I then looked at the built-in navigation in the Accord EX-L Navi and it wasn't intuitive at all. I was able to use the Garmin out of the box without looking at any manuals.
    I could probably read the manual and figure out most the Honda's nav system in an hour, but the cost is ridiculous especially since I really only wanted an LX_P. It is at least $6K to upgrade from an LX-P to an EX-L with Navi. You get leather and other extras for the money, but I didn't want or need the other options.
    Also, both EX-L Accords I drove had rattles and the Navi model had an additional rattle around the Navi's disc drive, so I have been turned off from the EX-Ls for good.

    So, I am not so desperate to not have to hide the Garmin as to accept a cellphone nav or pay for an EX-L with nav.

    There is Garmin Nuvi cell phone coming
    image
    and maybe there will be an Apple iPhone with built-in gps nav in the future that will be great and I'll can always try those when the come out, but there is nothing available right now that's worth it to me.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    You can't tell me "no you don't need an unlimited plan" because I have used it and seen the prices and got the bill. You need an unlimited plan one way of the other.

    You are incorrect on this one. I have a standard family share nationwide plan. A few months ago I headed out west. I was in the car a total of 15 hours r/t and had VZ Nav on 100% of the time. When I got my bill that month and the next month, Total was $9.99 and $9.99. This is Verizon Wireless not AT&T. You have to understand how Verizon charges. Last year around Sept. they made air-time and data usage of VZ Nav free and unlimited. Every month my bill for VZNav is the same: $9.99. While I may be a "special" person, I don't have a special deal. VZW mixes things constantly, but this is my current plan.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    but the owner still needs to deal with the damage.

    That's why I always use the bean bag type holder that just lays on the dash. I only use my Magellan on long trips where I don't know the area so I simply remove the unit(take with) and place the holder/mount down in the footwell or behind the front seat. My interior is black and the holder/mount are black so it is very difficult to even see it if one stops and peers into the car.

    You're both right about not leaving anything out in plain sight.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I agree that there are some smart crooks out there but I don't really think they are the ones that are smash/grabbers. I think the smash/grabbers are just opportunistic....relying on the mistakes(spelled trusting) of others. It's sad that one can't leave anything of value in their car anymore without being labeled a dummy.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    From the Verizon VZ Navigator web-site...

    Getting Started
    Download VZ Navigator on your phone, and subscribe for a monthly rate of $9.99 or use it when needed for $2.99 a day. (Per Day option not available on BlackBerry devices) VZ Navigator is pre-installed on some Verizon Wireless phones, and some have a shortcut to the application from the phone's main menu called 'Navigation'. See Get VZ Navigator for further information and download instructions


    No where can I find that Verizon has any pre-conditions (other than a compatible phone) such as a special or unlimited minutes plan....

    From the Sprint web-site...

    Q: How do I find/purchase Sprint Navigation?
    A: Sprint users must subscribe to a data plan in order to use Sprint Navigation. If you already have a data plan, click here to learn how to download Sprint Navigation.

    If you do not already have a data plan, you can sign up for one by doing one of the following:

    Go to the www.sprint.com and sign in to "My Sprint Wireless" to upgrade to a Power Vision Data Plan that includes Navigation
    Call 1-800-SPRINT1 to upgrade to a Power Vision Data Plan or purchase Sprint Navigation for $9.99/month *
    Go to a store and ask to upgrade to a Power Vision Data Plan or purchase Sprint Navigation for $9.99/month *
    *Note: Without a data plan, Sprint Navigation will incur data usage costs.


    From the AT&T web-site...

    AT&T Navigator
    AT&T Navigator Basic: $5.99 per month per device for 10 routes*
    AT&T Navigator Premium: $9.99 per month per device for unlimited routes*

    *A route is determined when a user types in the address of their destination in the AT&T Navigator application. The route would be from their starting location to the address/destination they originally entered into the application. That would be considered 1 route. If you miss a turn, re-routes are automatically sent to your device and are still considered part of the original route.


    Don't know about any other carriers...

    Can you supply any info that contradicts this information? I would like to know, as my daughters may need to use this some day...
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I sat in a Malibu LTZ today. I'll make this quick-

    I liked the interior. The gauges seemed a little small (just because I'm used to my larger ones probably, not a biggie). There were some cheap touches inside. The door covering the cupholders was flimsy, the moonroof cover didn't seem to set it place well, and a $29k car with no rear-seat armrest? My $19k 12 year old Honda has one! C'mon Chevy, get with it! Overall though, it was a good effort.

    One problem? SIZE! The back seat of the Malibu was tighter on my legs than my 2006 Accord, which isn't a huge car in the first place. It had a claustrophobic feel all over, even though the front was plenty roomy.

    I'm trying to be objective towards the Malibu, but I must admit it was difficult. I was at my local Chevy dealer (Premiere Chevrolet in Bessemer, AL) redeeming a "free oil change" coupon which I used on my old '96 Accord. Unfortunately, I spent two hours waiting on my car to be serviced, and while I was there, roaming the lot and checking out cars, NOT ONE EMPLOYEE spoke to me. In fact, the only friendly people there were the cashier in the service dept, and the service tech who brought my car around. They covered my driver's seat in grease, but the service tech managed to get it out (thank you Scott!).

    I had forgotten how spoiled I am by two other dealers in my town (Serra Honda, and Town and Country Ford). Premiere Chevrolet simply sucks!

    EDIT: On a side note, the dealership (a large one along the interstate) only had 4 Malibus; two LTZ V6s and two LT1s. They had probably 3 dozen Cobalts and 70 Silverados, however.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I quite agree with you!

    The only point I was attempting to make was that is doesn't pay to underestimate what folks will do nowadays. And, don't underestimate folks intelligence...the under 18 crowd knows how they will be treated by the courts if apprehended (no jail time in most cases unless multiple court appearances/charges), so in a sense, our legal system actually encourages some of this behavior.

    Whether accomplished and selective thieves or simple opportunists, the result is still the same. Stolen items and property damage that must be dealt with by the car owner...

    Just another example of the sad state of affairs we have to deal with these days....

    Personally, I liked the security system of the "6000SUX" car in the movie "Robocop"...20,000 volts !!!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I tried both AT&T and Sprint's nav and they used data plan bandwidth. I happened to have unlimited data already, so it only cost me an extra $9.99 unlimited at the time. Sprint's service was worse than AT&T's because it handled routing when the phone is in use in an extremely poor way.
    Both were more hassle that using my Garmin and putting it away when not needed, so I canceled both. I managed to live with AT&T's Telenav for a few months and canceled Sprint Navigation after 2 days.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Can you supply any info that contradicts this information? I would like to know, as my daughters may need to use this some day...

    Depending on your exact plan, some airtime/data charges may apply. The only way to know for sure is to call verizon wireless and ask them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I'm trying to be objective towards the Malibu,

    I was trying to be objective but I didn't like the base Malibu. The base Camry and Accord seems to be a better package overall.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    In my area, they are breaking out windows of cars that have the telltale suction cup marks...

    I guess I must spend all my time in low crime areas, because I sure don't give much thought to the possibility of someone smashing windows to steal whatever is in my car. Of course, my MODT navigation system is not of much value, most components of it were free.

    MODT = maps on dead tree :)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Know what you mean. Now if we can just get gravel trucks to cover their loads. I am having the glass company coming Thursday morning to replace my windshield on my Tundra due to a very large stone flying out of a bouncing gravel truck. I would have gotten a plate number but I was too busy trying to dodge other stones it was throwing off.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I guess VW is calling their new sedan the "quad-coupe" over here, rather then the Passat CC. I really do not understand this car. Is is supposed to be positioned to compete with the Maxima / Avalon crowd? With it offering VW's 2.0 Turbo with 200hp, it seems to be very under powered. I see it is rumored to also get the V6, which would make it a better competitor, however, I can see the price going well over $30K.

    This just seems like a car that could steal sales away from their slow selling Passat. Can we say VW has an identity crisis? :confuse:
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    Hope you can come out tonight to meet and greet some of your fellow CarSpace members!

    The Mazda Club Chat is on tonight. The chat room opens at 8:45PM ET Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    Hello,
    I'm sure that this questions has come up before but I'm going to ask it anyway.I have a couple of questions about resales values.

    1. how are resale values calculated ?
    2 How is it that the Fusion/Milan are better built than the Camry. But, the Camry still has a better resale value ?

    Thanks
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    2 How is it that the Fusion/Milan are better built than the Camry. But, the Camry still has a better resale value ?

    I can answer this one. The Camry has a higher resale value because more people want one, and are simply willing to pay more for them.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Last time I checked the Fusion residuals were better than the Camry but not as good as the Accord. Do you have more recent data that shows otherwise?
  • bhmr59bhmr59 Member Posts: 1,601
    Resale values are always a bone on contention.

    1) Does resale mean "trade-in" to a dealer or a private party sale?

    2) Is resale value compared in the actual $ of the used car sale?

    3) Is comparative resale based upon MSRP or the price actually paid to purchase the car new.

    IMO, it crazy to say that a three year old car of brand X has better resale than brand Y, unless the purchase price new is more than the difference in value when sold three years later. Yet, a lot of people think that way.
  • theman123theman123 Member Posts: 170
    Sorry my computer froze up on me. I Have here 2 of the closes and most common models within the same price point. The 2008 Ford Fusion SE I-4 and the 2008 Camry LE I-4 Both with 5 speed automatics. Here are the links straight from Kelly Blue Book.

    2008 Ford Fusion
    MSRP Ford Fusion $19,660.00
    2008 Ford Fusion Resale value

    2008 Toyota Camry
    MSRP Toyota Camry $21,735.00
    2008 Toyota Camry resale value

    Now the graph for the Toyota Camry is clearly higher than the Fusion. Help me understand this :confuse:
  • karsickkarsick Member Posts: 312
    The question about residuals based on MSRP prompted Toyota (IIRC) to make Scion a "one-price / no-haggle" brand. Or, it was at least one factor in the decision.

    The fact that everyone pays MSRP would give Scions a perceived high residual, and (as you already know) is one reason why most domestics have such lousy residuals ($6000 Lincoln Town Car rebate, anyone??? :P )

    Like you, I wish it were possible to track the actual purchase price of each car vs the resale price years later in order to get a clearer picture.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Those graphs are based on percentage of MSRP, what I think those who trade should be interested in is the actual depreciation in dollars.

    Edmunds "true cost to own" provides an estimate of this and is based on their TMV as the starting point, rather than MSRP. Edmunds TCO also provides estimated reasale value so you can estimate your own personal depreciation based on the price you actually pay.

    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/cto/CTOintroController

    For the Fusion SE total estimated depreciation, based on $15,000 miles per year, is:

    $4700 after 1 year
    $6670 after 2
    $8403 after 3
    $9939 after 4
    $11,318 after 5

    For the Camry

    $3939 after 1 year
    $6242 after 2
    $8268 after 3
    $10,063 after 4
    $11,675 after 5

    So at 4 years or more the Ford has lower depreciation. But at any time, I think your personal depreciation is going to depend as much on how good a deal you get as it is on the resale value. The actual price paid can certainly vary by a few hundred to maybe as much as a couple thousand dollars at the time of purchase.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The accuracy depends on which source you want to use and what you want to believe. KBB has been doing this the longest and although their methodology is different than edmunds, if I want to guess at a future private party or dealer trade in,, KBB is what *I* would use and it is considered the standard.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    if I want to guess at a future private party or dealer trade in,, KBB is what *I* would use

    Where does KBB give this information? The links given, in the post that I was responding to, showed some vague graphs based on MSRP.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    My own experience, take it for what you will, is that Edmunds' TMV used car prices are a little closer to reality than are KBB's figures (as found on kbb.com). But both are just estimates, and YMMV, especially I've found for cars that are exceptionally well cared for--which mine are of course. :)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    As long as you don't leave a laptop or something valuable in plain view.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Can anyone shed light on the reason that a Camry, that weighs about 350 more lbs. than a Corolla XRS and appears to use the same engine/trannny(5 spd auto) combo, gets a better hwy mpg rating from the EPA?
    I assume wind resistance may be a very small player but is the gearing possibly that much different? I would think that a Corolla with the same drivetrain combo would have earned a better rating, not worse.
  • mcdawggmcdawgg Member Posts: 1,722
    Manual or Automatic? The Camry Manual I THINK uses an E251 transmission. Don't know about the Corolla.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Sorry, I was referring to the 5 spd auto. I changed my post to reflect the auto. Tks.
  • autokritikerautokritiker Member Posts: 65
    That's a good question! I can't seem to figure it out either. First, I assumed that the Corolla XRS must have a considerably shorter final drive ratio, but then I looked at C&D's track times for both cars:

    '08 Camry LE
    2.4L / 5-speed Automatic
    curb weight: 3,343 lbs
    ...............................1/4 mile time: 17.0 at 83 MPH

    '09 Corolla XRS
    2.4L / 5-speed Manual
    curb weight: 2,930 lbs
    ..............................1/4 mile time: 15.9 at 88 MPH

    FACTS:

    1) The Corolla XRS (with manual) weighs 413 lbs less than the Camry LE (with automatic)

    2) The Corolla's manual transmission sends more power to the drive wheel, compared to the Camry's automatic (torque converter power loss)

    MY CONCLUSION:

    The Corolla, being significantly lighter, and having more power at the drive wheel, should not require shorter gearing to reach the 1/4 mile 1.1 second faster than the Camry. Could it be the cheesy tacked-on ground effects on the XRS causing more drag at highway speeds? I assumed that as well, but the Camry SE has the same cheesy tacked on ground effects kit as the XRS, and the Camry SE gets EPA ratings identical to the Camry LE. So that rules out the drag theory. So.....either the XRS is running considerably higher RPM than the Camry at highway speeds (which would require the XRS the have shorter gearing, which is unlikely given the facts above), or somethin' aint right with the EPA's calculation formula. Or you can use your imagination and speculate as people love to do.
  • autokritikerautokritiker Member Posts: 65
    Still, an XRS with a 5-speed manual should get better Highway mileage than a Camry with the same engine and a 5-speed automatic. The weight difference of 413 pounds is significant, and if you consider the facts/data from my post above, the gearing should be very similar between both cars, if not identical.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Maybe it boils down to which bolt-on ground effects pkg is cheesier than the other. ;)
    However, all joking aside, the EPA numbers are supposed to be accurate(comparatively) so I really wonder what gives.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    According to the 2009 order guide the Fusion will offer ESC (finally). This was a surprise since the 09 model debuts in June and will only exist for 6 months when the mid cycle refresh appears in December (on sale in January).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Offer, or standard?
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    Considering the larger, more expensive Taurus has it optional only (TRAC is standard), I'm guessing this will be an option for the Fusion as well.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Member Posts: 140
    So, Elroy, did you get your windshield wiper motor fixed yet?
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    So, Elroy, did you get your windshield wiper motor fixed yet?

    My wiper motor works just fine. I'll see about it whenever I get a notice from Honda. I've been wanting to go by the dealership though, to check out the new models. Unfortunately, the wife will probably be the one to take it in. Oh well, I'll stop by one day.
  • drwilscdrwilsc Member Posts: 140
    The recall notice, front page news on msn.com, says that 353,000 2003 Accords were affected. Evidently water could enter an area near the windshield wiper motor and cause corrosion. No news yet on whether my wife's 2003 Odyssey is affected.

    Don't forget to look at the new Pilot when you go to the dealership, it looks like a winner.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    I read the msn article. If I don't get a notice soon I'll call Honda. They sent me an e-mail today on the new Pilot. That grill may take some getting used to. :surprise:
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Copy that on the grill.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Don't forget to look at the new Pilot when you go to the dealership, it looks like a winner.

    I hope you're joking. That's the ugliest thing Honda has made since the Isuzu rebadge.
  • elroy5elroy5 Member Posts: 3,735
    Ugly is in the eye of the beholder. ;)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Don't forget the Ridgeline. That is one beautiful truck.....NOT.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    In most cases - yes, but even Honda puts out a stinker every now and then:

    image
  • gooddeal2gooddeal2 Member Posts: 750
    The ugliest SUV of the year! :cry:
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The looks of the this fit right into the segment. No better, no worse. Of course, we can debate what is a "good looking" car until the cows come home. :cry
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It's just the grill. With a normal grill, it would look a little like a 4Runner.
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