Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Midsize Sedans 2.0

1…184185187189190…544

Comments

  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Yes, this fusion :D of technology via the sync thing seems to be the focus :D of Ford's advertising. I don't get the appeal, myself as I have no desire to talk to my radio. But then, I also don't want to walk around with a phone or I-pod plugged into my ears at all times, either. So obviously I am completely out of touch with the wishes and desires of most people...
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    So obviously I am completely out of touch with the wishes and desires of most people...

    Hey, you said it. not us! JK :P

    According to Ford, the Focus posted an 88 percent increase in retail sales for April compared to last year, the highest April sales for the Focus since 2000. I'm sure the Sync is at least one (if not the ONLY) reason for it.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    It's kinda lacking in other reasons actually. The car is built on a rather old platform with some pretty lacking driving dynamics. None of the car reviews about it are particularly positive. I'm not sure what else it really offers as an advantage over any other compact. I mean if it was built on the Mazda3 platform, you've got plenty of other good reasons such as a) great handling b) great interior
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I don't get the appeal, myself as I have no desire to talk to my radio.

    Better to talk to it than take your hands off the wheel and select a disc or track number searching for a particular song though.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Steering Wheel Audio Sir. So glad I have it now :)
  • thegraduatethegraduate Member Posts: 9,731
    I have it now on my Accord, but you can't change CDs in the changer with it, only MODE (AM/FM1/FM2/CD), volume, and CD track or radio preset. Still have to push the number of the preferred disc in the in-dash changer. Not a big deal, I'll admit, but it is still hands/eyes off the wheel/road time.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Young technos absolutely love the SYNC. Oil prices have hit record highs. Focus true street prices are, possibly were because of this new demand, much lower than a lot of comparable subcompacts all combine to a real sales sweet spot for Focus.

    Even though the platform is kind of old, if you do a comparison it holds up pretty good on some of the more important aspects....handling, gas mileage, value. Add SYNC and Fords got a real winner all of a sudden.

    I would love to have SYNC in my "6". I'm not a young techno(maybe an older one) but I appreciate the features of SYNC. Every review I have read of cars/truck with it in has been good and usually a better experience than the reviewer anticipated.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Actually the Focus has always been a good platform (not great, but good). Combine that with Sync plus the recent facelift plus a shift towards small cars and it's not that surprising.

    Back to Sync - we just bought a 2008 Edge with it and it's fantastic. My wife can leave her cell phone in her purse while making and receiving calls. She can make calls using the phone's address book by name (Call Chris) and she can answer phones hands free. If she gets a text message sync will read it to her out loud. It even translates acronyms (if you send "IDK LOL" it will read "I don't know. Laughing out loud." and will even send automated responses.

    Add to that the ability to control her ipod by voice - artist, track, playlist, genre PLUS the new 911 feature coming in the fall (available via a USB flash drive software update) and sync is more than just a neat toy. It's downright useful.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I would love to have SYNC in my "6".

    The idea of a system like that is a great idea. I bet as years go on, other mfgrs will integrate similar technology. I'm hoping Apple gets on that. Personally, I would not want Microsoft technology in my car. It's just another reason to bring it to the dealer when, not if, it goes wrong.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I would not want Microsoft technology in my car

    I have no idea but it wouldn't shock me to find that most cars already do have some Microsoft tech in them.

    Nothing personal but it seems that most everyone hates and bad mouths Microsoft but they don't have Apple computers. Don't know if you have an Apple or not(I don't) but they don't cost all that much more anymore. It seems that if all the people that complain so much about Microsoft bought Apple....Apple would be three times the size it is now. Just a thought and sort of drifting off topic a bit.
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    and sync is more than just a neat toy. It's downright useful.

    Sounds kind of like the MyGIG in my Sebring. I bought it last fall and I probably wouldn't have ordered it with a MyGIG. Now that I've played with it for 8 months I think it's the neatest gadget I've ever had in a car. Hands-free voice control of the radio, sat, jukebox, navigation, phone, etc.

    Heck, I can even watch a DVD movie while I drive, not that I would ever do that though. It was a passenger enhancement.

    Also, Harman Becker makes the MyGIG - I don't know what connections they may have with Microsoft.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Tedebear, I think the MyGig I got to demo was just goofy, but when you use your left steering wheel control (the unlabeled one on the back where you can feel but not see it) to navigate a list, do you have to push UP on the switch to make it go DOWN in the list? I was very surprised by the lag in the system, the time from when I pushed a button to when it actually moved..I kept overshooting my targets.
    I also found that ripping CDs to the HD was worthless, it took forever. The trick is to copy all your MP3s to a USB stick and insert that, MUCH faster. But then if you already have everything on a USB stick, why bother to upload it all to the car?
    I did update the Gracenotes library in the MyGig and it recognized a lot more of the files after that. A 200 item list of track 1 track 2 etc isn't so helpful.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    Graduate,
    The advantage to these systems isn't when you are managing 6 CDs with like 60 songs, they are when you are managing an iPod with 1600 songs. You can also use the steering wheel controls to do that with SYNC to some degree.
    I really liked the hands free control in SYNC for the phone and for the iPod. I think that is an advantage over some of the competing systems. I am looking forward to the next gen systems, with Chrysler, Hyundai, and Ford all pumping these up, something cool will be out soon.
  • tedebeartedebear Member Posts: 832
    to navigate a list, do you have to push UP on the switch to make it go DOWN in the list?

    Hmm..I've never noticed whether it seemed backwards. I immediately notice things like an inverted mouse on a game, where when I move it forward I want it to look or move down, like on the control yoke of an airplane. If it was like that on yours the reason I can see why they'd do it that way would be that pressing UP goes up to a higher station number, like the UP on the right side button increases the volume.

    BTW, if you press the hump in the middle of either button other things will happen. I didn't know that for almost 1/2 year.

    The latest Gracenote database is 811. Although I updated it mine still shows a few albums with "track01.WMA" or whatever, instead of the title. Strangely, they are part of the same 9-disc music CD set that found names for the others. :confuse:

    You said the CD ripping goes too slow. How long is considered slow? When I was building my playlists I would rip two CDs on my way to work and two more on the way home. They usually took around 10-12 minutes each.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I have no idea but it wouldn't shock me to find that most cars already do have some Microsoft tech in them

    Oh no! Don't tell me that! :cry:

    I guess the Microsoft / Apple discussion does not belong here, however, they are selling more PC's then they ever have before. I have owned Apple computers all my life. I guess you can say they are the Honda's of the computer industry. You just can kill 'em.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    It would be nice if Apple came out with a Sync like system and midsized car manufacturers picked up on it. There, now back on topic. Cheers.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Interesting that out of all the midsized cars with Carspace user reviews that the Accord has the lowest ratings. In reading a lot of the reviews it seems that overall quality and gas mileage seems to be recurrent themes. When the 08s first arrived it seems a lot of fans weren't happy with the looks but after actually owning other things have cropped up.

    My question: Is this due to actual quality problems or of hard core Honda fans expectations? I am in the market for another midsized car this year and was kind of looking at the Accord but the more I read user reviews, the more I've strayed away from considering it. Looking for other's opinions.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    Hey, you said it. not us! JK

    Oh, I don't view it negatively, I'm perfectly content to be an out of touch luddite. :)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Well, there must be some high ratings there for the Accord, so it might be best to evaluate the car yourself, as it might be exactly what you're looking for--or not.

    As for quality, that is fast becoming a non-factor in this class IMO, with former stalwarts such as the Camry showing some chinks in the armor and cars like the Altima, Fulan, and Sonata showing very well, and newcomers like the Malibu exhibiting much improved initial quality.

    Note also that the 2008 Accord has more rankings than any other car on the list. So it will be interesting to see what happens to the scores of the other cars as more buyers rate them.
  • karpediemkarpediem Member Posts: 46
    Note also that the 2008 Accord has more rankings than any other car on the list. So it will be interesting to see what happens to the scores of the other cars as more buyers rate them.

    Just to get more reviews I looked at the 2007 Altima reviews and 2008, since they are the same car. Total reviewers were 355 and the rating is 9.3 (9.2 '07 and 9.3 '08). I'd say 355 reviews is a pretty good number, as is the 272 for the Accord.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I did a test drive an Accord a couple of months ago(LX-P I4 auto) and rather liked it. Was somewhat suprized as I have test drove Accords probably 3 times over the last 15 years and never got a warm fuzzy from the tranny and the steering wheel position. Those were not issues in this 08 test drive. However, in reading the reviews I am noting all kinds of creaks and other noises, flickering headlights, poor mpg on the I4s, etc. Just enough to really make me hesitate.

    On another note, I just recieved an email from Mazda with a link to configure the new 09 6 the way I liked it including options and colors. Prices were included but noted to be tentative. Here is one configuration I made.

    MAZDA6 i Touring
    170-hp 2.5L DOHC 16-valve inline 4-cylinder with VVT
    Mileage, City/Hwy (mpg) 22/30 AT
    i Sport model features plus:
    17" alloy wheels
    Fog lights
    8-way driver's power seat & electroluminescent gauges
    Push button ignition start
    Leather-trimmed steering wheel & shift knob
    Trip computer & welcome mode
    Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry System
    Anti-theft security alarm

    The price on this configuration was $23550 which included destination charge. There was no Special Value packages listed.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    post a link so we can all build the new 09 6! I'd be interested in the options avialable for the car.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    You can't, unfortunately. The link goes to a page related to your specific email address, and once you exit out of the page, it won't allow you back in.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    So do you have to own a Mazda6 or have been added to the Mazdausa.com website for addtional info on the new 6? if its the latter hopefully I'll get an e-mail soon.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I do own a 6 but also registered on the MazdaUSA website to get info on the new 6 so I don't know which took precedence in getting this email or if a combo of both did it. There were only three configurations similar to the way Mazda packages them now. However, the sunroof was broken out so it didn't come automatically with say the Gran Touring pkg per se. Also a stand alone option was the NAV. The package I copied in my previous post was the second tier pkg. The top tier was $26650. The I4 auto sport was $22050.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    Heck I don't think it's just quality that's becoming comparable. The non-Honda-Toyota makers have finally gotten much closer and/or caught up in terms of the car design/features themselves. I'd say a Sonata, Fusion, Malibu, Mazda6, etc are all pretty comparable with some weaknesses and strengths. It's more about specific wants and needs of each individual now...and obviously price. Heck I'd even put Camry behind most other cars, I just don't enjoy the style of Toyotas currently, although I definitely do like some of the Hondas.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I liken Honda and Mazda to the difference between Seiko and Citizen.. The Seiko is essentially the same as the Citizen, but it costs more and has a bit more bling and name brand recognition.

    The smart money is on the Citizen, though, like the Mazda. A Mazda 3, for instance, is literally within a few millimeters of the Civic in terms of size, space, and so on, inside, and the features are literally less than a dozen that are different. Despite the Civic's different sheet metal, the 3 and it are near carbon clones of each other. I know. My sister was looking at both and I went over every bit of data and poked around in both for a solid day. It was basically a "pick one - makes no difference" at the end.

    But Mazdas do cost less, thanks to aggressive financing and rebate offers.
  • moocow1moocow1 Member Posts: 230
    If we're gonna compare civic vs mazda3, in all honesty, the mazda 3 blows it outta the water. It's got a much better interior and driving dynamics and most reviews will attest to this. I'll note all my friends recently purchased a Mazda3 over a Civic due not to brand, but because it's a better car. It would be like if the Citizen had twice the features of the Seiko. But this is all an aside. I think it's much closer in the Midsize arena than compacts. There is always the whole prestige aspect of any vehicle, I'd consider it just another factor like many others. And the higher the price you're paying, the more you want it :) From what I've seen the prestige of a Mazda is not that far behind a Honda, they're both japanese cars after all. The bigger thing is japanese vs european vs american vs korean.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I agree with you, there's lots of good options in the mid-sized field now. Many professional reviewers put the Camry (especially the I4) down the stack also. Personally I'd rank (in alpha order) the Accord, Altima, Malibu, Optima, Passat, and Sonata (at least) above the Camry I4, and I think I'd even take a Mazda6 or Milan before the Camry, especially considering the real-world price differential. The Camry V6 is stronger, but still I'd put the Accord, Altima, Malibu, Passat, and Sonata ahead of it. The Camry Hybrid is unique (at least in my area--no Altima Hybrid available here) so it has the advantage for those looking for maximum FE in a mid-sized sedan.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I'd agree...the current Camry, while competitive is just not what it used to be...or as others have stated the competition has just caught up and surpassed it.

    The current Camry is visually and features-wise WAY more appealing than the "hump backed" looking previous generation Camry.

    One thing I can say that I like about Toyota over Honda is that you do at least get to pick and choose options on various Camry models unlike Honda where features are based around trim levels. It's a great way for many many folks I'm sure but its kinda a pain for others. But again I understand why Honda does it, and it surely been a good formula that has worked for them over the last 30 plus years.

    I wish Honda made bluetooth and XM standard on every Accord above the LX. Same thing with fog lights. Same thing with Nissan (who is even worse than Honda) where you can't get a CD6 without leather or even bluetooth without leather on an Altima, yet the lowly Versa and Sentra allow you to get those combinations.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I wish Honda made bluetooth and XM standard on every Accord above the LX.

    I wish every midsize car has standard bluetooth. It really shouldn't cost that much to install at assembly especially if done in huge quantity--maybe a $100. I could care less about XM though. I think if you did a survey of 100 people you'd probably get 80% for bluetooth and maybe 40-50% for XM. Out of my circle(it's not a huge circle but big enough) of friends and relatives I only know one person that has XM and I'm not sure if that is what he has or if it is Sirrius.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    I personally prefer Sirius myself...but since they seem to be combining soon...I can deal with XM. I like how Chevy is doing the bluetooth option for 09...allowing all but the base model to at least have it...so I'm happy about that. But my younger brother works for a Saturn retailer in the Carolinas and he told me that Saturn had a big dealer meeting and explained that the BT system used on the Aura and Malibu would not be compatible with many of today's phones. Not sure what that means...but we'll find out soon enough when the 09s get here.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I have a bluetooth speaker made by Blueant that clips on the visor. Researched quite a few and this one was high rated and I really like it. No it isn't nearly as cool as having bluetooth built in and coordinated with radio etc. But it does work very well and has outstanding battery life. I mainly use it on longer drives and in areas where handsfree is required. My ultimate test of the device was my father(84yrs old) in Texas couldn't tell I wasn't on my cell when I called him. It only cost about $70.

    I would still rather have built in bluetooth for a reasonalble price though. The system that Hyundai is putting in is nothing more than what I have pretty much. It doesn't sync with the radio to my knowledge. It costs a lot more than mine but then again you don't have to charge it.
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    I have a Blueant now and it works pretty well. The only problem is if you forget to turn if off while the car is in the garage. If you leave it on and don't walk far enough away from the car, the bluetooth connection will not disconnect. The battery can last for weeks between charges, so leaving it on overnight isn't a big deal otherwise.
    Since the Blueant gets the job done, I wouldn't sell my car just to buy a car with built-in bluetooth, but if I'm going to buy a new car anyway, I'd rather get one with that feature.

    There is a new, better version of the Blueant Supertooth coming out that has text to speech Caller-ID and a vibration sensor that will turn itself on based when it senses the vibration of your car door slamming shut. You can also answer calls by voice and not even have to take your hand off the wheel to press any buttons.

    http://www.mycellphoneblog.com/blueant-supertooth-3-bluetooth-speaker/

    image
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I totally agree and thanks for link. I'm going to look into the new Blueant. I wonder if the new unit will turn off when it feels the door close as well? My wife just got a bluetooth phone so I may give her my current Blueant and get the new one. I'll probably wait until I get a new car within the next few months and see if I can get the installed system for a reasonable price.
  • lilengineerboylilengineerboy Member Posts: 4,116
    I personally prefer Sirius myself...but since they seem to be combining soon...I can deal with XM.

    I can't get myself to pay for the content they have on satellite radio. I don't understand the allure or the value there. I like local news and traffic in the morning, and I like the local classic rock or 80s stations during the rest of the commute. I just can't see paying $120/yr for something that is already free. HD radio has better sound quality than most satellite radio systems, and its free as well.

    I am glad someone has a revenue stream though, the XM revenue stream might help offset the OnStar stuff.

    But my younger brother works for a Saturn retailer in the Carolinas and he told me that Saturn had a big dealer meeting and explained that the BT system used on the Aura and Malibu would not be compatible with many of today's phones.

    Different phone manufacturers (and service providers) define the bluetooth vehicle interface protocol differently. Some phones offer more features and connectivity than others based on that interface. Most of the newer systems (SYNC, MyGig) have someway to update the firmware in the HU as more phones come out, and most phones are being tested with these devices. It should keep getting better as they hammer out a specification for the bluetooth vehicle interface.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I personally prefer Sirius myself...but since they seem to be combining soon...I can deal with XM.

    I can't get myself to pay for the content they have on satellite radio. I don't understand the allure or the value there.I like local news and traffic in the morning, and I like the local classic rock or 80s stations during the rest of the commute. I just can't see paying $120/yr for something that is already free. HD radio has better sound quality than most satellite radio systems, and its free as well.

    I used to feel the same way, until I bought an 08 Altima with XM radio. Its quite addicting, especially if you spend much time on the road. There are so many choices, from music to talk to comedy, and virtually commercial free. Personally, I see the value, but I understand why others may not view it as worthwhile...

    I am glad someone has a revenue stream though, the XM revenue stream might help offset the OnStar stuff.

    But my younger brother works for a Saturn retailer in the Carolinas and he told me that Saturn had a big dealer meeting and explained that the BT system used on the Aura and Malibu would not be compatible with many of today's phones.


    That's true across the board, but some manufacturers support many more phones than others, and each model may be different within an individual manufacturer.

    For example, my 07 BMW Z4 only supports 4 or 5 phones, all but one Motorola. However, my 08 Altima supports a boatload of Bluetooth phones from many manufacturers.

    I don't know about other manufacturers, but both BMW and Nissan list the compatible phones on their respective web-sites...

    Different phone manufacturers (and service providers) define the bluetooth vehicle interface protocol differently. Some phones offer more features and connectivity than others based on that interface. Most of the newer systems (SYNC, MyGig) have someway to update the firmware in the HU as more phones come out, and most phones are being tested with these devices. It should keep getting better as they hammer out a specification for the bluetooth vehicle interface.

    I absolutely agree with that statement.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Sync's bluetooth interface is fantastic. They seem to have done a very complete implementation of the latest bluetooth standards. There are many phones that support all features. The ones that don't need to be upgraded by the mfr/service provider. At least with Sync so far it's always been the phone's firmware that was lacking. However, should Sync ever need an update it can be accomplished with a computer download to a USB thumb drive.

    We got an Edge last Saturday - my wife paired her phone in just a few minutes, including downloading the entire address book. She then hit the phone button and said "call Chris" - and it did. I sent her a text message and Sync read the message out loud, including translating "LOL" to "laughing out loud". Not to mention voice control of her iPod. What a great product!
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Sync's bluetooth interface is fantastic

    Come on Mazda, press Ford to let you put SYNC in the new 6.
  • urnewsurnews Member Posts: 668

    We got an Edge last Saturday ...

    Congratulations Allen. What did you trade? Did you keep the Fusion or is it an MKZ you have (had)? Tell us more.
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    I still have my Fusion. This was my wife's vehicle which replaced a [gas hogging, premium sipping, problem laden, truck riding] 2003 Aviator.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I wish every midsize car has standard bluetooth. It really shouldn't cost that much to install at assembly especially if done in huge quantity--maybe a $100. I could care less about XM though.

    Of course, I am no indicator, or maybe I am a contrary indicator. But I could not :) care less about either of those features.
  • frag235frag235 Member Posts: 81
    Sounds like the Bill Gates Co. got something right :P
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    You must not use your cell phone while driving.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Did he say he has a cellphone??? ;)
  • akirbyakirby Member Posts: 8,062
    Did he say he has a cellphone???

    What is he - Amish? ;);)
  • drwilscdrwilsc Member Posts: 140
    I can't get myself to pay for the content they have on satellite radio.

    I agree. It seems smarter to download whatever songs you want on your MP3 player, which plugs into most modern car audio systems. That way, we Generation X'ers can listen to our favorite '80s songs whenever we want!
  • jaxs1jaxs1 Member Posts: 2,697
    It wouldn't need the vibration sensor to turn off because it goes into standby automatically when it's out of range of the bluetooth connection, but if you don't walk far enough away to lose the connection, it will remain paired (such as if you have an attached garage and don't walk more than 20 or 30 feet away from the car when you go inside. You will have to remember to turn if off manually in that case.

    Here is the website with a demo

    http://www.supertooth.net/HelpService/interactive_voice_demo.html

    Looks like the changed the name to "Supertooth Voice" instead of Supertooth 3.
  • jeffyscottjeffyscott Member Posts: 3,855
    I generally don't have a cell phone with me. We have one but my wife carries it most of the time, it is used pretty rarely. 200-300 Tracfone minutes covers us for a year or more.

    Neither of us likes to use the telephone much, cellular or otherwise. Our last long distance bill had one call for 2 cents and last local bill shows 19 calls for the month.

    Like I said before, I know I am an out of touch luddite, which is why I don't understand how you-all have so much need to talk on the phone constantly.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I use mine(both the cell and the blueant speaker) mostly on longer drives when I catch up with family. They all live long distance from me. For example, I drive up to Minneapolis occasionally for AF reserves and call my dad in TX while I'm driving. We might talk for an hour or so. It's just nice to drive with both hands on the wheel and looking staight ahead while conversing. It's usually a weekend so minutes are free. Then I might call the sister in Michigan and do the same thing. It breaks up the drive and also helps me keep in touch.
Sign In or Register to comment.

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles