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I am guessing that the AWD system in my MazdaSpeed6 is similar or identical to the Fusion AWD. With almost 10K miles, the worst gas mileage my Speed6 has registered (on a full tank) is 24 mpg; last tank was 27.5 mpg. I realize that AWD does diminish gas mileage, but not drastically. You need to look at the other factors in your situation; your commute traffic route is likely the biggest factor. Here in the mountains of Colorado I have been very pleased with the AWD this past winter. The only way I can get a wheel to spin is to break the whole car loose by flooring the gas pedal while driving in very icy conditions. It performs very similar to my wife's Audi Quattro.
I never said it wasn't ok for people to disagree. you also may want to look over to your shoulder sometime too.. :shades:
Why don't you try to trade the Fusion in for a Fusion SEL I4 and see what happens?
I am very curious as to why you feel buyers remorse? I understand your MPG issues. What other reasons for remorse? :confuse:
I'm through responding to your repeated and untrue claims about Accords costing $5k more than a comparable Ford, especially since you have stated you'd never own one and don't like them. You shouldn't respond to people saying that say "Ford's are garbage, and you'll be lucky to see 80k miles" etc... because they'd probably never shop for a Ford, and are just posting biased comments against them without credence.
We both know that the statements are untrue, so let's just be satisfied, and try to only talk about things we know about, and not get so wrapped up in defending our choices, because as we should all know, Bob's choice may not be right for Chuck, and Chuck's may not be right for Bob. They picked different cars, but they each got the best possible value.
EDIT: Scape, i just realized in your little profile that your name is Bob! What a coincidence
Congrats on the high mileage, btw, that's great!
He bought too much car. He doesn't need/want the V6 engine, and feel he would've been much happier with a much less-expensive Fusion than the $24k and change he paid (he got a completely loaded model, with AWD and HP which he doesn't need).
It's probably how I'd feel if I'd bought an Accord EX-L V6 with Navi. I don't need the Navi system (I have a portable one) and I certainly would rather have the economy of the 4-cyl over the excess power of the V6.
And they are worth every penny. 4 out of 5 reviewers recommend the Accord to their readers who buy midsize sedans. What happened to the 5th guy? He had an accident. :sick:
And they are worth every penny.
To YOU. Not to everyone.
Urnews, give it time. Give the car time to break in. I have just over 14,500 and my mileage is on the trend upward. When I first bought the car I was even skeptical. I was averaging 17MPG!! for about the first 3-4,000 miles. Then my mileage jumped dramatically per the computer in the car. Get out on the net and find other forums with Fusion/Milan owners. Get out on the net! If you want Fusion sites e-mail me at Sarduci1@aol.com and I will send them to you. I can't link you to them here at Edmunds they frown on this. The Fusion is a great car and a great value.
van
Or, perhaps wait for the all new 08 Accord which is rumored to have the new Advanced VTEC engine. The A-VTECs are supposed to have more power, and 10% higher mpg. So that might mean as high as 28 mpg around town and as high as 36 on the highway. Of course, those all new A-VTEC Accords, which look a bit like a 5 series BMW, are probably going to be selling at close to list price for a while....I'm going to try and wait until the summer of 08 when they might be had at a bit of a discount.
I too use the old fashioned way of calculating the mpg, then compare/record both. I keep a running total..just a habit from years ago. Yes the mileage increases with the miles but sometimes seems to make unusual jumps.
van
I couldn't disagree more. After years of owning FWD and RWD cars, all my cars now have AWD. I'll take the penality in gas over the more surefootedness in wintery conditions. In addition, when one steps on the gas a true full-time AWD has four tires launching the car instead of two. Making for smoother takeoffs in bad conditions.
"I look very suspiciously at a 'computer' making those kinds of decisions for me."
That maybe, but you are clearly in the realm of: "you don't know what you don't know" about stability systems.
I couldn't disagree more. After years of owning FWD and RWD cars, all my cars now have AWD. I'll take the penality in gas over the more surefootedness in wintery conditions. In addition, when one steps on the gas a true full-time AWD has four tires launching the car instead of two. Making for smoother takeoffs in bad conditions.
I gotta say I concur. The AWD 4 cylinder manual transmission wagon gets roughly the same MPG as the older manual transmission FWD car. Both seem to get low-mid 30s on the highway, upper mid-20s in town.
The wagon has been fantastic in terms of meeting needs, 5spd, good mileage, feels like a tank in bad weather, tows a small-ish (2500lbs) trailer with no problems, baby seats fit well, and was about 1k more than the Accord at the time, for AWD and a wagon body style.
"I look very suspiciously at a 'computer' making those kinds of decisions for me."
There is no computer in the AWD system. There are true limited slip differentials (I believe they are Torsen type). None of this computer controlled engine retarding traction control nonsense.
Allen, we do drive "normal," as in gentle, conservative. But perhaps our average usage -- short commute, stop-and-go, short hops -- is not normal. There is a difference between the two entities, in my humble opinion.
Maybe nothing, except a hybrid, would make a difference. All I know is that 13 mpg for the first 2,000 miles or so was financially painful and 14.8 mpg now is not much better.
I would not recommend the AWD option to anyone, unless they live in upstate New York or one of the snowy climes. AWD is a waste of money at the outset and a mileage killer in the long term, which is more money down the fill-up tube.
Our decision to buy a car equipped this way was just plain stupid. It was a "fuelish" move on our part. That's what happens when you see a car you "just have to have." FoMoCo does not equip many of its SELs with an I4 and a manual tranny but you can order one that way, which is what we should have done.
An I4 manual might not reach its EPA estimates given our driving pattern, but at least it would have been cheaper to operate overall. Hindsight is always 20-20, unfortunately.
According to my calculations it will cost us $524 a year EXTRA to operate at 14.8 mpg versus the revised EPA estimate of 17 mpg. But that was figured out when gasoline was "only" $2.22. It's now at $2.74 a gallon and rising almost daily. That only increases the pain.
I pity the people, ourself included, who are stuck with vehicles that deliver low gasoline mileage.
If there is a next time, I will opt for an Accord.
A hybrid would really be your best bet. This is the type of driving where they excel. You could probably get 45-50 mpg from a Prius or less than that with a hybrid Camry (or the 09 Fusion hybrid). The V6 Accord hybrid won't come close.
Just trying to level set your expectations so you're not disappointed a second time.
well this just might be the other way around - go ahead and revel in your political correctness, but you should at least understand that a computer IS making driving decisions (and adjustments) for you, along the lines of applying brakes for you, cutting throttle and/or slowing steering responses. And the problem has nothing to do with the principles of the systems like this to begin with but with how invasive they can become courtesy of that computer programmer and HIS (or some lawyer's) judgement of what a vehicle's dynamic situation must be before HE THINKS we are unable to cope with it. Educate yourself, read a few road tests, and see how SC systems can and do inhibit many vehicles ultimate handling capabilites in terms of really quantifiable numbers.
Yup, I've made up my mind. Our next vehicle will be a hybrid and or a Accord, maybe a Prius (they are so ugly they are beautiful (and everybody knows you are doing your part for the environment).
It was the bold distinctive styling, the exceptional handling, the many nice creature comforts that sold on us on the Fusion (and its many favorable reviews in the media).
The next time around it will be all about economy, economy, economy. I once owed a 1958 VW Beetle that didn't even have a gas gauge. Didn't need one, it delivered 30 mpg all the time and had a 10-gallon gas tank. You were good for 300 miles no matter how you drove it. It was a fun car. Unfortunately I totaled it, but walked away.
Is the Prius considered a compact? I think mid-size is our comfort level. Which car is the mileage champ in this group?
I am very curious as to why you feel buyers remorse? I understand your MPG issues. What other reasons for remorse?
Scape2,
We are not going to do anything, as far as trades go, for at least one model year. Maybe, as you say, the mileage will improve as the Fusion matures. If it would just get 17 mpg, the revised EPA estimate, I would be satisfied, really.
Our (my) buyer's remorse is solely related to the mpg situation because that is a dollars and cents issue. The Fusion is fine otherwise, a genuinely outstanding car, the best we have every owned. (The large turning radius takes some getting used to and backing up is tricky because of limited visibility. These are factors that you learn to make adjustments for.)
My wife could care less about mileage. Maybe I should adopt that outlook, too. But I just can't. It bugs me big time. If there is a next time I will definitely opt for a four-cylinder, manual transmission something.
I (we) believe the Fusion to be an exceptional automobile, EXCEPT for the mpg issue. That is my only real complaint.
I don't know, SE MI has enough days of grumpy weather to justify AWD for our needs (especially since it doesn't seem to have a mileage penalty yet). If I was still on the west coast, I would be less excited about it.
Gas here is $3.28, but realistically, its not that often the cars need to be filled up so I can't complain as much as some.
But if you trade your car in on another for the next few years, I would imagine you would be upside-down as far as trade in value is concerned. the money you would lose by trading in too quickly would easily pay for your gas for a few years. To be blunt, there really aren't a whole lot of good options for you right now. If your drive to work is longer than your wife's, perhaps it might make economic sense to trade cars with you driving the fusion?
Anyways, hope you can get over your angst... by all reports, it sounds like it's a very nice car but maybe not ideal for your circumstances, but it still is a nice car.
Your mileage may certainly vary.
We'll most likely keep the car until the 2009s debut, at least. Who knows maybe the mileage will magically improve at 5,000 or 10,000 miles, even though I doubt it.
I'm retired, but my wife (12 years younger) still works. There is only one commute involved, hers, and sometimes she takes our 2000 Ford Focus station wagon to work. It delivers 22 mpg over the same driving pattern. That is below the EPA estimate, too.
As you suggest, a hybrid would be an ideal vehicle for our circumstances. I will definitely explore that possibility the next time around. Who knows, maybe there will be a decent Fusion hybrid by that time.
Oddly enough this is the only four-door my wife would really consider. (She had her heart set on a Mustang, but that was just not practical enough at this time.) We actually owned two Mustangs in the past. Neither were particularly good cars and we did not keep them for very long, but they sure are sporty.
One of the former Mustangs had a pathetic four banger in it and it was severely underpowered. That's why we went for a V6 in the Fusion. According to what I've read on three Fusion forums, the I4, 160-horsepower engine is more than adequate.
Indeed, most of the fours available in the mid-size cars today seem to be quite adequate, according to what I have read.
The bottom line is we should have ordered an I4 manual SEL rather than buy the $27,105 MSRP car that was on the lot. We were smitten with the car. You know how that goes.
I was also interested in the Sonata but the wife considers all of the Asian makes to be "plain Jane lookalikes." The Fusions styling, handling and good press reviews turned out to be the deciding factors.
Heck, I even think the Prius is so homely as to be attractive in a perverse way. Wife can't stand them. As I mentioned in an earlier post, she doesn't even care about mileage. (I'm in charge of filling up the cars and paying for it, so why should she?)
lol, know what you mean. the scoion's are kind of the same way.
I've been educated. One of my former cars had stability control and I have a raft of experience with it. Stability control is supposed to keep the car under control, however, the stability control on my car could be disengaged. This will prevent the car from (thankfully) reaching it's full potential at the expense of having it go out from under you.
Again, unless you have extensively driven a car with a stability control system and have tried to defeat it, you are only speaking from what you have read, not what you have driven.
If it saves your bacon once, it has done it's job.
My brother has a '04 Mazada6 with a 6 cylinder and 5m he is averaging 25mpg on 80% highway mileage. With a 100 mile daily commute he wishes he was getting my mpg. He also wishes he knew Mazda was going to release the Speed6 before he bought his 6 cylinder.
We also have an '05 AWD Pilot which my wife drives and she averages 18mpg on more stop and go traffic. On vacation I have averaged 22-23mpg going 75-85mph on strictly highway driving. We have been satisfied with mileage considering the size, weight and AWD.
IMO Honda does build a good compromise between power and mpg in their 6 cylinders.
What I've read only confirms a coupla of experiences I had. Following a successful 'heart in my throat' accelerating high speed avoidance manuever (swerve) in my own non-VSC car, I did take an opportunity to test VSC personally as installed in a Sonata (don't ever buy a rental car that I have had a chance to play with , my cornering exit speed (on a favorite traffic circle of mine) was 10 mph less (VSC on vs. off) because the car 'went dead' as I approached those computer imposed limits for that particular car. There is no way that the Sonata system would have 'allowed' me to do, what I did do several weeks earlier in my own car although I can't definitely say if I would have been involved in that particular pileup or not.
Incidentally, many of those VSC off switches do not completely disable the system and I know of no cars that wouldn't automatically re-engage the system when restarted - making the 'off' switch largely impractical anyway.
Your whole point is moot as stability systems will be required on cars in the future. You have to drive a BMW to see how stability control should be integrated into the driving experience, not a Hyundai. I would take the risk that stability system would cost me "my bacon", on the bet I have a better chance of it saving "my bacon". That's like saying there is a good change an airbag deployment will physically hurt me, therefore I will disable it. But the airbag can also save your life.
In the meantime avoidance at high speed is best done with a stability system enabled, not disabled. We obviously disagree (and I have multiple years of living with a car with a s/c as a daily driver not just a few test drives), but the point will be moot in a few years.
Out of 350,000 Accord buyers (let's say that's the number for example's sake), how many are going to be so aggressive in their driving that they need the stability system set where it won't intervene when they crank the car? That's where I think Honda has it right (for me anyway).
When i get frisky behind the wheel of my Accord (it's a 4-cyl so there is no VSA at all), chances are, the next day/trip I take I'm not gonna be so aggressive the next time. I'll probably be making my commute to work/school, or going to Wal-mart, where I'd want VSA on.
I played around with it this winter on our sienna, and in snow and ice it was very easy to get the back out at quite extreme angles. If you car has the ability to brake just one wheel to bring you back on course it won't do any good if that one wheel has little or no traction available.
We bought the option as a safety feature, but pushing the car to the point where it might intervene is asking for trouble because it might not be able to save you. It is really for emergencies.
Having said that I am quite comfortable in my non SC Accord 4-cyl. It is not quite as nimble as my Integra, and has lower cornering limits, but it is very easy to drive fast. It has a nice progressive power on understeer and power off oversteer. Meaning if you go into a turn too fast (within reason) under power and notice you are going wide, then just take your foot of the gas and the front end pivots around. This is quite intuitive as taking your foot of the gas is your first instinct when things look to be going awry.
My Integra has similar traits, and I always had a lot of fun hanging the tail out in the snow (I always run 4 snow tires, so there was some traction).
Hyundai Sonata
Toyota Camry
Honda Accord V6
Nissan Altima
These are the ones I'm sure have it. The only one I'm sure that doesn't offer it in some way is Ford with its Fusion. I think Chevy/Pontiac may offer Stabilitrak on the Malibu and G6, but i could be quite wrong, and wouldn't bet a dime on it. Subaru Legacy may also have it too? Somebody with more knowledge can step in and fill in my many blanks!
Vehicle websites will give you a full list of the available features, including safety features (like stability control) if you wanted to know about a particular vehicle.
It may also be cheaper to just throw it in as is rather than re-engineer just to take the RSC out. I'm pretty sure Volvo, who developed the Ford system, does put RSC in their cars so that could be a good sign.
For most midsize cars CR will routinely gets 14-16 mpg in their city test. Meanwhile EPA has gotten 20-24, for the same cars in their test. These large differences are just due to the way the car is driven in each test.
The guy with Fusion remorse, likely drives more like the CR city test rather than the EPA test. CR reported 14 mpg for "city" in a V6 Fusion. The I-4 got 15 mpg in that test, while the last test of an Accord I4 got 16 mpg.
Galant
Legacy
Mazda6
Optima
Prius
Notably, of those listed above or in your post, I think the only mid-sizer that offers ESC standard on all trims is the Sonata.