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2008 Minivans
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Comments
I did not notice the smaller amount of cargo space behind 3rd row of 2002 T&C LX when I owned it that I would notice now that I have owned the Sienna with more than twice as much. I did not realize how nice the 60/40 split fold into the floor 3rd row seat was before I got the Sienna.
Each minivan has some advantages while also having some disadvantages. The Odyssey has THE MOST comfortable seating for 7 people BUT the Odyssey front door armrests are NOT as comfortable as those of the Sienna and also do not have the nice storage under the hinged, PADDED arm rests. The Odyssey also does NOT have the overhead console with compass / outside temperature and trip computer BUT the Odyssey EX has separately controlled temperature for the driver and front passenger that is NOT even optional on the Sienna LE. :shades:
I guess that comes from a lot of put down over the years and having auto magazines not really giving Chrysler products the credit they deserve.
While they did have some problems back in the 1990's, most have been cleared up in 2,000. But there are still some on this board that knock them hard, even though they never owned one, or haven't owned one for years. Much like some say they will never buy another American vehicle, even though the quality is way up. Even better than European cars. Now that we see that Toyota is no longer what they use to be, I would say they are about as good as the Asian vehicles. But it will take years I'm afraid before many find that out. Hopefully the American auto industry is still around when it happens. I think the American auto industry is vital to our economy and I really get upset when I hear Americans say they will never try an American vehicle again.
I have a 2005 Dodge GC and a 2004 Honda Civic. Both have been excellent vehicles and we haven't had any problems with either. But next year, I plan on trading the Honda in on a Ford Focus. It's also been rated a very good car and I want to support American if I can get a good reliable car from them. My only gripe of the Honda, is the harsh ride over bumps and expansion strips on the road. We didn't feel them nearly as much when we test drove the new Focus.
I think Chrysler has come out with a great minivan for 2008. They have put on it everything most people have complained about them not having and then added even more. Then cut the price to make even more affordable. I'm sure that's hard for Chrysler to do with the cost advantage the Asians have over Chrysler and the other American auto makers. From the experience I have had in 38 months of owning my van and the experience my brother has had with both of his vans and my sister's minivan, I think a person can't go wrong buying a new Chrysler van. You'll not only get a great minivan for a good price, but you'll be helping out your country too. Thats a great combination.
Chrysler needs to offer the biggest engine on ALL minivans without making the consumer buy a top of the line GC SXT or T&C Limited just to get power comparable to the Sienna or Odyssey. Chrysler needs to STOP having cheap, hard, ugly plastic door panels. Put soft padded vinyl and cloth on the door panels with nice carpet at the bottom. How much would it cost to have attractive door panels instead of cheap, hard, ugly plastic? :confuse:
I think your title says it best... Some people don't care about having the biggest engine, they want the smallest price, or some specific feature/stand alone option that they can't get in another minivan without having to spend $$$$$ for top of line model. I think the new door panels on 08s are just fine...good graining, lots of pockets/holders etc. Some people want the best warranty available at no charge, maybe they're buying minivan for young children and want to keep it for 10+ years? I think for 08, Chrysler has put back in the lighted switches and upped the stakes with LED lights throughout minivan.
Has anyone heard how Chrysler's minivans are doing in sales lately? I know they fended off Honda's dumping of 07 Odys and I keep seeing tons of car trailers moving Minivans around Detroit (probably coming in from Windsor).
Good points and glad to hear you're confident enough to trade the Honda in for a Ford. I own a Ford and Honda and really like both of them.
You know one car reviewer has said Detroit is suffering right now from sins it committed in the past. I think there's a lot truth to that statement. For years they put out sub par quality products relative to the imports. They didn't stand behind them too well and it's coming back to haunt them.
I agree the domestics have gotten a lot better. The competition if fierce however and with our Wal-Mart mentality in this country, it's become a tough sell to say buy it just because it's American made.
I think most of the Japanese cars have displaced the Europeans as the quality & and dependability vehicle which consumers will pay a premium for. However the Korean and soon to come Chinese vehicles have filled the value segement that the Japanese used to fill. American makers continue to be squeezed in the middle as the have been since the early 70's.
I'm not sure what the answer is. Big Labor says it's Managements problems and Management say it's a Big Labor cost issue. It's pretty simple however. If the domestics can't make money, they're going to go the way of Zenith T.V.'s. The Golden Goose for the USA may finally end up like the Dodo Bird.
When I bought my 2005, people on here said they wouldn't by a Dodge/Chrysler minivan because the inside was two plain. It only had a four speed tranny, was to slow, didn't have stability control, side air bags etc. Not much was complained about in the quality of it. Now Chrysler has a new minivan out that has all the stuff many complained about them not having, and loaded it with stuff none of the rest even offered and priced it cheaper, so now they go back to past quality that really hasn't been an issue on Chrysler minivans for years. The 2008 Chrysler vans are great vehicles. Built well and a ton of features on them. Don't buy them just because they are American. Buy them because they a good minivans and because your also helping your country by doing so. Thats the way I look at it.
Toyota hasn't issued a factory recall for the Sienna door problem, perhaps because such notices generate a lot of negative publicity, said Joe Wiesenfelder with Cars.com, a Web site for car enthusiasts.
I don't see how you think they're trying to keep this a big secret. Every automotive press outlet in the world covered that story.
He is, and give up, there's no convincing him, I've tried. I even showed photos in this very thread, earlier.
I'm not disputing the fact that the gauges bother him, only that noone else complains. I have had the same gauges for a year now and love the blue hue and soft, pleasant glow. The only better gauges in Minivan-dom are the Hyundai Entourage's Lexus-like gauges (on the Limited model only).
I respect hansienna's opinions but I think he believes that his opinion is fact, and that everyone agrees with him. That's just not the case.
Per surveys 79% of Sienna owners are happy, and he falls in that 21% minority. For his old, beloved T&C van the number of satisifed owners was just 49%.
So his opinion is in the MINORITY.
His input is useful in these threads but I wish he was more accepting of the opinions of others, especially when the majority disagrees with him.
When I was shopping for vans in Sept 2007 I was told by the Toyota salesman that "Our quality shows. For example Toyota has never has a recall". Looks like that was BS. Of course all salesmen will tell you anything to make a sale - not just Toyota's.
I don't see how you think they're trying to keep this a big secret. Every automotive press outlet in the world covered that story.
I'd like to know who carried the press release then. I get Consumers Report, Automobile and Motor Trend magazines and saw nothing in any of them. I also get the newspaper and saw nothing in that on their massive recalls, hidden recalls or even the Japanese government thinking of suing them. So who carried it? I didn't see it on television news either. I am sure there are many on here that were as surprised as I was to hear the news about Toyota's quality problems.
Chrysler also needs to offer both darker and lighter leather interiors and carpet for all their vans, not just the lower lines. Give people a choice.
What they said could be absolutely true. If they use (‘service campaigns’) instead of recalls. Who's to know except the owner? Unless someone speaks out. Keep the myth going.
Your right, all will try and build up theirs and tear down the competition to make a sale.
Journal Sentinal
Cars.com
Consumer Reports
AutoBlog
AOL Videos
YouTube
And that's just the first page.
The press loves covering a story like this.
This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do.
So if Cerburus is losing money, and the US government has to bail Chrysler out again, like they did in the early 1980s, then technically we are subsidizing jobs in other countries.
Country of origin doesn't play an important role to me anyway, the economy is global, plus I'm Brazilian anyway.
I was shopping for home theatre furniture last week and the guy and the Big Screen Store started ranting and raving about how Costco's furniture was made in China, from parts with lead-based paint, etc.
I bought the same furniture he was selling, but elsewhere (HTmarket.com). There's no way I'm going to give my business to a lying salesman like that.
So the furniture comes in, same model and manufacturer that lyin' salesman was selling, and guess where it's made?
China. You guessed it.
Your story is comparatively mild.
Any how, let's get back to the merits of the actual minivans. If people want to debate Made in the USA a seperate thread should be created.
A quick Google finds coverage from:
Journal Sentinal
Cars.com
Consumer Reports
AutoBlog
AOL Videos
YouTube
And that's just the first page.
The press loves covering a story like this.
This is how it should work - the problem appears, people discuss it on-line, create a buzz. That puts pressure on the manufacturer to address the issue, and they do.
Does it say what issue in Consummers Report has it in? Most of those you mentioned, most people would never see or read. Now if you had said NY Times, Arizona Republic, Edmonds, Motor Trend, LA. Times, CBS, NBC, I could understand it. They sure wouldn't have a problem with that kind of news on those sources if they were American.
Click & Clack spoke about the issue on the air, too. It was pretty funny, as usual.
Detroit Free Press covered it (naturally).
Edmunds may have blogged it.
I guess it was big news for those that wanted it to be big news.
I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter.
Click & Clack had quite a bit of fun with it.
I dunno, it's just a spot weld. Doesn't seem like that big a deal, or that costly to repair, for that matter.
I'm not talking about just a spot weld on the Toyota minivan. I'm talking about the massive recalls that Toyota is having on many of their models.
Even as GM and Ford have accumulated award after award on vehicle quality, you’d almost never know about such quality gains made by American companies - or quality declines of foreign companies - by listening to the media. Did you hear about it when the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration announced that Toyota recalled more vehicles than it sold in the U.S. last year? Probably not. Did you hear about Toyota making an "elaborate apology" for their "worrisome series of recalls" that has "tarnished its reputation for quality?" Probably not. Did you hear about the Toyota senior manager quote that stated "We used to do quiet recalls called ‘service campaigns’ to deal with defects but we’re not going to hide anything anymore?" Such a statement suggests Toyota’s past recall numbers were probably much higher than we were led to believe, and they profited handsomely by having a perception of higher quality than they deserved. In Japan, prosecutors are looking into possible negligence on the part of Toyota for shirking recalls for the last eight years. How ironic. You probably didn’t hear about that one either because the American media doesn’t like to bash foreign auto companies - only American ones.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts
The problems with the new 6 speed automatic are pretty well documented, in fact IIRC CR made that front page news. Same with the Tundra's glass camshafts.
There is no doubt Toyota has had major growing pains. You can't do that kind of volume, especially with rapid growth, and maintain the level of quality control you had before, when you were smaller.
I don't dispute that at all.
In fact, an Edmunds member works for a supplier to SIA and surprised me when he said the quality inspectoins for Subaru and more stringent than the ones for the Camry at the same plant.
Should we be surprised that Subaru passed Toyota in CR surveys? Toyota dropped from 1st to 5th place.
In the context of the Sienna, though, it's still the most reliable van out there, whether you believe Consumer Reports or TrueDelta. They are using a proven engine and transmission, and one small defective spot weld doesn't change that a bit.
Also, let's keep in mind Simmermaker is a Union member and runs www.howtobuyamerican.com, not exactly an unbiased reporter.
But what has happened since gas prices have been on the decline in recent months? The Wall Street Journal reported a "slight" increase in truck sales by American companies, as Ford Expedition sales were up 41% and Lincoln Navigator sales were up 44%. The American media even tries to restrain its applause for home-based auto companies by referring to gains of over 40% as "slight!"
And the foreign car lovers will probably also not tell you (or maybe they just don’t know or don’t want you to know) that GM and Ford pour more money into existing American facilities than foreign automakers spend on new plants, usually with little or no tax breaks. GM has already spent over $500 million upgrading two transmission plants this year, and has spent nearly a billion dollars over the last decade, for example, for facility upgrades in Texas. And what do GM and Ford get for making their existing plants more efficient? It isn’t tax breaks. Instead, they get accusations of not being "competitive" enough! Maybe here I should also mention that the average domestic parts content for Kia is 3%, while the average domestic parts content of Ford and GM is 78% and 74% respectively. This means that buying a U.S.-assembled (or even foreign-assembled, for that matter) GM or Ford supports more American jobs than a U.S.-assembled car or truck with a foreign nameplate.
Fortunately for our benefit, the U.S. remains the overall global leader in research and development, and a big reason for that is that American automakers - according to the Level Field Institute - invest $16 billion in R&D (Research & Development) annually, which outpaces any other industry one could name. Admittedly, the Level Field Institute counts German-owned DaimlerChrysler as an American automaker, so Ford and GM’s combined R&D contribution to America is closer to around $12 billion. But who’s counting, right? Certainly not the American auto-bashing media.
Japanese companies do employ 3,600 American workers in R&D, but that still leaves the foreign competition behind in the dust staring at American rear bumpers. 3,600 sounds like a big number until you realize that 65,000 Americans work in R&D facilities in the state of Michigan alone. In fact, two of the top four R&D spending companies in America as reported by the Wall Street Journal are - you guessed it - Ford and General Motors. The other two are also American companies: Pfizer and Microsoft
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1753099/posts
WSJ said truck sales - that includes pickups, a much bigger percentage of the total pie.
Simmermaker single out a couple of low volume luxury SUVs, a drop in the bucket when it comes to the big picture of pickup truck sales.
It has cost Sienna owners $ 2,000 per front door to fix the problem with spot welds failing in the front doors of Siennas.
Try this link for more information. I could not find the discussion in the Sienna Club about the BIG DEFECT in 2004-2007 Sienna front doors because I am not a member of the Sienna Club. :shades:
Lets discuss the benefits and short comings of these new minivans. But lets not cut our own throat by judging them today by the problems they had 8-10 years ago. All of them had some major problems. All of them are pretty good vans now.
C'mon now.
I am a member of Sienna Club and the issue was discussed over there. When the news arrived from Toyota owners were pleased and the discussion died down.
In the 2004+ Sienna threads it's way down the list, 38th to be exact.
That thread got a whopping 5 responses.
Not exactly the flood of complaints you guys were hoping for, eh?
You may find a few complaints here on Edmunds, but nowhere near the mass hysteria being implied by a cover-up scandal.
Sorry, it just wasn't a very big deal.
I respect hansienna's opinions but I think he believes that his opinion is fact, and that everyone agrees with him. That's just not the case.
And that is my exact feeling about CR and many people's opinion about CR. They are just a bunch of people giving their opinions like everything else. If glare bothers hansienna - his likes ought to be respected. You don't have to agree but this does not make his opinion wrong. Glare obviously is important to him. For me the lack of visibility out the drivers side in the Odyssey drove me nuts. It obviously doesn't bother many people but for me I drive on elementary school parking lots. I need to be able to see along my side so I don't back into a smaller child which even a rear camera might not see because it does not show the side of the van. I don't want to have to roll down the window everytime I back up.
My opinion isn't better or worse than somebody else's. This doesn't bother most people. Doesn't mean I'm wrong. Chrysler's softer, looser steering doesn't bother me either. It is agile and will turn quickly, you just have to turn more. This isn't important to me. But CR and those who accept it's reviewers opinions as if they were facts follow right along. When I see the new T&C judged by CR as having poor visibility because this new version has bigger pillars even though me, the visibility expert, knows that you can see along the side but you will have to move your head somewhat -- but that you simply cannot see along the Odysseys side no matter how you move your head -- and CR mentions nothing about the Odysseys nonvisibilty -- so I accuse them of poor, biased reviews.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/14/aw-snap-toyota-recalling-15-600-tundras-for-t- ransmission-shaft/
Of course it aint true. But CR gave the Tundra a glowing predicted reliability review.
Though I have bought American, I agree here. What incentive would American automakers have to do a good job if we bought their products regardless of their quality, reliability, price, likability etc? I love foreign competition and it always benefits consumers. I just hate the media if they give untrue reviews.
"Overall, the entire company has benefited from the intensified focus on quality as Chrysler Group has seen nearly a 45-percent improvement in expense per vehicle (EPUS) from the 1998-2001 model years to the 2006 model year. In external metrics, the Chrysler Group brands continue to make dramatic year-over-year improvements. The 2007 Chrysler Sebring program and its dedicated engineers have made the vehicle another strong statement in the company’s goal of being among the best in quality."
* Chrysler has posted a 15% improvement on first-time-through powertrain manufacturing capability, resulting in smoother, more efficient assembly processes.
* Since 1992, Chrysler Group’s conditions per 100 vehicles have been reduced by 68 percent.
* Chrysler Group's overall warranty expense has been reduced by approximately 50 percent since 1996.
* At nine months in service, Chrysler Group's expense per unit sold (EPUS) has declined by 13-15% (2003 model year vs. 2002 model year), continuing Chrysler's double-digit improvements.
The warranty cost reductions are largely through improved powertrains, intensified testing and laboratory validation, and increased durability testing.
http://www.allpar.com/corporate/quality.html
Question: Where do the profit go when you buy a Honda or Toyota or Kia? Sure workers are paid a salary which they spend locally.
I have documented the Dodge Truck assembly line worker I met late last year. The man fixes, you read that correctly, fixes, rear axle assemblies on the Ram pickup production line. The man claimed that due to production pressures he passes on potentially defective parts. I recently met a retired GM executive who said that early in his career he passed on defective parts. Today he drives an Acadia and says its quality is world class, something CR seems to agree with. My standard is my friend, the Chrysler dealer sales manager who bought an Odyssey for his wife because, as he said "I did not want her driving a Chrysler POC". He made that statement in 2007, not 1997.
My son owns a 2008 Sienna XLE, a very well made, solid vehicle. My 2006 Odyssey EX-L has been a wonderful people mover. I have a brake issue covered by a TSB but it is more annoying than a safety issue. Would I buy American in the future? Perhaps but not a product of the Chrysler Corp.
It's a global economy. GM is building V6 engines for the Equinox in China. GM-DAT (Daeweoo, basically) is building Aveos in Korea, the best seller in the segment BTW.
Chrysler builds cars in Canada and Mexico, and they tote these as being "domestic". Gracias, amigo, for the jobs.
Is the Grand Caravan really a domestic if it's built outside of the USA?
They don't hesitate to paint PT Cruisers with american flags to help sell these "domestics".
Ford builds the Fusion in Mexico.
Did you know that the Camry is the only car represented in NASCAR racing that is built in the US? Ironic, no?
Automakers have to be efficient to survice, so this is inevitable. They do and indeed should source the parts from the most efficient source. If they don't, someone else will and they will lose sales.
Heck, you should head over to the Mistubishi Outlander threads. Those guys pitch the "Made in Japan" status of that model as a distinct advantage. I don't, but those folks do.
Any how, we could argue forever, but it won't change a thing. What will bring customers back is good product. GM has hits with the Malibu, the Lambda crossovers, and most of the Caddillac lineup. CR gave all of them glowing reviews.
Ford and Chrysler would be wise to follow that business model.
GM, Ford and Chrysler have to build some vehicles in Canada and Mexico or they wouldn't be able to compete at all. The foreign makers come over here and build new plants with tax breaks given them by the state. They hire new employees that are not ready to retire, don't have five weeks vacation coming to them. They pay them a lower wage, get a break on medical because they are younger and don't have to pay medical to retirees. Can you even imagine the profit advantage they have on domestic makes right from the start? One reason they can usually offer more on their vehicles than American manufactures can.
To say Chrysler, or Ford doesn't put anything back into the American economy because they are losing money is far from the truth. Where do you think all that money goes? It's in higher employees wages and pensions, which that employee spends on goods and services right here. It pays taxes for police and firemen. It pays taxes for schools, city, county and state workers. It goes for furniture, food and airplane tickets. Where do you think that money goes to pay that health care for both employees and retirees? To Americans.
Where do you think that profit goes that the foreign makers make? That profit that they don't have to pay out in taxes, health care, vacations pensions, etc? Most of it goes right back to their country, to create jobs for them.
Chrysler builds Dodge/Chrysler minivans in Canada. But they also build them in St. Louis. Mine was built in Canada, with a 83% N. American content. Engine and transmission built in the USA. With that big a content, most of that money stays here creating jobs for us, not Asians, or Europeans.
There is a big profit advantage these foreign manufactures have on American manufactures that they can't over come. Because they are locked into those contracts with employees. They don't get big tax discounts on their factories. Maybe if some tried to see the problem, they would be more understanding.
They stressed that their products use certain lubricants in their transmissions, radiators, power steering units, and etc. that weren't being used by these service centers. It was causing quality problems.
That might be the reason they send me discount coupons every few months to have my oil changed and etc. which I posted recently.
You let that myth (CR not reporting that issue) slide right by
I never mentioned the "Door Weld" issue, and have skipped over all those postings previously. That's why it slipped by
Which seemed fair at the time, given previous Tundras and the T100 had a consistently good reliability record.
As soon as they got enough data to show the new Tundra has glass shafts and was not reliable, they down rated it and published a front page story on Toyota's woes. Same for the 6 speed auto in the Camry V6, another model that is now rated below average and was also mentioned in that front page, headline grabbing article.
They even took a further step - for all new Toyota models they will wait until they have enough reliability data before they recommend them.
That's a pretty big slap in the face. What bias?
Note that the Sienna is not affected by either issue and is still recommended, data which agrees with findings from TrueDelta.com and SiennaForum as well.
The problem here is the people criticizing CR don't read it, so they're not really qualified to make judgements about something they haven't read!
I have 2 issues with that argument.
First off, Chrysler is losing money, so there is no profit. They're not putting profits back in to the american economy, in fact you may argue they're doing the opposite - creating a liability equal to those losses.
Second, the profits would go to some filthy rich shareholders. If you're asking if I care whether Bill Ford, Jr. is worth 7 trillion dollars or 8 trillion dollars, the answer is no, I could care less.
I read Iacocca's book. That year where he made his salary $1/year? He made millions in stock options. Maybe that's why today Chrysler has a $3000/car handicap over the newcomers.
Perhaps Chrysler deserves a rebate for what it (over)paid all those executives over the years.
You know this for a fact how? I've been getting CR for about 5 years, as a gift from my parents, it makes amusing reading. To say those that criticize, don't read it?? Whateva!
Funny how CR can give the Tundra, which was totally redesigned a glowing review, when a domestic car, which was slightly redesigned and had an avg rating in previous year, can't get the same treatment etc... I'd call this bias!!
Funny how you pick up an issue of CR and only see pics of Japanese cars on the cover or leads of articles? I'd call this bias!
Remember, what started this conversation was an accusation that CR ignored the door weld problems on the Sienna, followed by the Ody's transmission woes. CR documents both of those issues.
Why didn't you defend CR, if you knew that was inaccurate?
More recently the Tundra recommendation was criticized - any reader/subscriber would have known the full story.
Again, you were silent about that. Why?
Did you not get this month's issue? Where the Caddy CTS whops up on BMW and Mercedes? Is that bias too?
You subscribe, OK, I believe you, but do you really read it?
Their last 2 Buying Guides had the Dodge Caliber and Saturn Outlook on the cover, both domestics.
I'm going to borrow your line here: Whateva! :P
They also pitted a Tundra with a 4.30 axle ratio against the Silverado with a 3.73 ratio, then gave the Tundra praise for having better acceleration. But the Silverado offers a 4.10 axle ratio as a no charge customer selection.
Not only that, but they predicted that Toyota’s Tundra would have an above average frequency of repair rating. The Silverado? Too new to classify.
The Toyota won the test.
Surprise. It’s sorta like a boxing match were one of the competitors has his hands tied.
In response to criticism of the “comparison” test, Consumer Reports has posted an explanation on its blog. It’s complete doublespeak, but you can judge for yourself: click here.
Consumer Reports explanation boils down to saying that they selected trucks that used the powertrains most frequently purchased by consumers.
Then, why do they call it a comparison test?
As John Neff, who broke this story at Autoblog, notes, “Comparison tests, at least to us, are not about comparing what people buy, they’re about advising what people should buy based on an equal comparison.”
An equal comparison is not what Consumer Reports has done. Moreover, instead of admitting they used a flawed design for their testing, they’ve elected to defend their choices on the basis of a criterion utterly irrelevant to the purpose of the test.
The test wasn’t biased merely in the vehicles selected.
Giving the Tundra a predicted above average reliability rating while saying that the Silverado is to new to rate is plan ludicrous.
The Tundra, as Neff points out, is an all new vehicle produced at a brand new plant. The engine Consumer Reports selected for its test is the one that breaks camshafts, seemingly at random. The Silverado is a new chassis and body, but the drivetrain in the truck is one that has been on the market for some time. And it is the Silverado that’s too new to rate? It’s the truck with the 20 engines, so far, that have had to be replaced because their camshafts broke shortly after delivery that gets the “above average” rating for reliability?
Yup. That’s the way Consumer Reports did it.
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/consumer-reports-never-to-be-truted-ar4156- 9.html
I happen to work in the auto industry here, and actually know how it works. Domestics OEM DESIGN (more engineering/technical jobs) and SOURCE (more tooling, design work for the actual tools) products here....creating more jobs HERE. Not just slap some parts together using engines from Japan or trannys from China.
Second, the profits would go to some filthy rich shareholders. If you're asking if I care whether Bill Ford, Jr. is worth 7 trillion dollars or 8 trillion dollars, the answer is no, I could care less.
Apparently you do care enough to spout off insane numbers like trillion. It's not your business or mine what boards want to pay their CEO or shareholders, we're still a free capitalistic country, and even if they're paid "trillions", do your really think that money just sits in some bank account doing nothing for this country? It does trickle down and lifts all boats here!
As soon as they got enough data to show the new Tundra has glass shafts and was not reliable, they down rated it and published a front page story on Toyota's woes. Same for the 6 speed auto in the Camry V6, another model that is now rated below average and was also mentioned in that front page, headline grabbing article.
They even took a further step - for all new Toyota models they will wait until they have enough reliability data before they recommend them.
That's a pretty big slap in the face. What bias?
I read CR pretty well, but didn't see that front page story. What issue was it in? I still have some back issues of it.
It's a global economy. GM is building V6 engines for the Equinox in China. GM-DAT (Daeweoo, basically) is building Aveos in Korea, the best seller in the segment BTW.
Chrysler builds cars in Canada and Mexico, and they tote these as being "domestic". Gracias, amigo, for the jobs.
Is the Grand Caravan really a domestic if it's built outside of the USA?
They don't hesitate to paint PT Cruisers with american flags to help sell these "domestics".
Ford builds the Fusion in Mexico.
Did you know that the Camry is the only car represented in NASCAR racing that is built in the US? Ironic, no?
Automakers have to be efficient to survice, so this is inevitable. They do and indeed should source the parts from the most efficient source. If they don't, someone else will and they will lose sales.
Heck, you should head over to the Mistubishi Outlander threads. Those guys pitch the "Made in Japan" status of that model as a distinct advantage. I don't, but those folks do.
Any how, we could argue forever, but it won't change a thing. What will bring customers back is good product. GM has hits with the Malibu, the Lambda crossovers, and most of the Caddillac lineup. CR gave all of them glowing reviews.
Ford and Chrysler would be wise to follow that business model.
More recently the Tundra recommendation was criticized - any reader/subscriber would have known the full story. Because of their bias against domestics. I've brought this up many times and Mary has done a great job of summarizing it.
Did you not get this month's issue? Where the Caddy CTS whops up on BMW and Mercedes? Is that bias too? Ohh so a few token pictures makes up for years and years of bias?
You subscribe, OK, I believe you, but do you really read it? No, I only look at the pretty pictures in it!! Duh!