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Half-ton Pickups - The full field
tundraheadquarters just completed it's comparison of the Dodge Ram to the Toyota Tundra, and it was interesting to read that the Dodge Ram was safer, the frame better, and the Ram looked better.
However, it also said that the Ram got 8mpg...so I guess it wasn't pro-Dodge.
In any case, anyone had a chance to compare the two trucks themselves?
Here's the link:
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/04/13/tundra-v-ram-part-i-mechanical- s/
However, it also said that the Ram got 8mpg...so I guess it wasn't pro-Dodge.
In any case, anyone had a chance to compare the two trucks themselves?
Here's the link:
http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/2007/04/13/tundra-v-ram-part-i-mechanical- s/
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
As far as towing capability, many will tell you that the truck manufacturers are playing the numbers game. Many wouldn't even attempt to pull 10,000 pounds in a half-ton pickup despite the rating.
As to the comments about the Hemi fuel consumption, come on guys! The only thing gross about the Hemis fuel consumption was your exaggeration. You know as well as anybody that the EPA test is the only fair comparison between vehicles. I know many RAM owners that typically get 14-15 MPG around town. It's how the vehicle is driven. I had one of our company's maintenance trucks for better than a week and that Hemi delivered just over 16.
The new Tundra sounds like a nice truck, and I guess it would be a little too much to expect you guys to be completely objective. But you could at least try.
Bob
Not that gas mileage is a huge consideration when buying a truck, but 9mpg is rough. Here's to hoping it gets better!
http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/193
Bob
I am towing a 2005 Prowler 25 foot travel trailer that weighs loaded maximum 5,500 pound; and using an Easy Lift Hitch with anti-sway bars.
I take it out of overdrive on even the slightest hill or bucking a headwind.
This 4.7 liter engine has enough power to tow this trailer and am getting about 10-12 miles per gallon while towing.
I get 16-17 MPG driving the freeway at 65 MPH (not towing).
I am considering upgrading to the 2007 Tundra with 5.7 liter engine that delivers 100 more horsepower. I also am considering the Dodge RAM 2500 Heavy Duty with cummins turbo diesel engine. I have had such good luck with the 4 toyota cars and trucks that i have owned over the last 20 years; that i am reluctant to switch over to the Dodge.
I don't think you will find a more reliable and trouble free truck than the Toyota.
The Dodge is definately more of a towing rig than the Tundra; and the turbo-diesel will get a little better MPG. The 64,000 dollar question is---What will it cost to maintain the Dodge for 200,000 miles??? My Toyotas that i have owned all went over 264,00 miles and were still running with the orginal engines and transmission with no problem (with consistant preventative maintenance/changing lubricants). Lubricants are the lifeblood of moving components and reduce friction and wear and is very inexpensive preventative maintenance.
You are the first Tundra owner I have heard from. I have heard from 4 Tacoma owners who've been able to tow around 5K lbs., though one out of the 4 said he "white-knuckled" it every time (then got a Dodge Ram 2500).
Reading the Dodge forums gets me all freaked out that I will be dealing with one headache after another, bad warranty coverage issues and the fact that I don't know squat about diesels. But then I hear from Dodge owner like that one who loves his rig and I start thinking about the power and relatively good mpg (however, the '05 and newer models do not seem to be getting as good as the older models. The 2002- 2003 models seem to be the best). I am so confused right now.
The city and hiway mileage on the Tundra seems really low, though the towing mileage seems reasonable. Part of me feels that if I am going to get that huge of a truck, seems like it ought to be a diesel, but then it's the reliability issue... so I am back to looking at Toyota...Geez, can someone please get me off this see-saw? I want a truck with the Dodge Ram's power and at least 21-24 mpg hiway and at least 14-17 mpg towing and I want it to be as reliable as Toyota! Is that just too much to ask for my hard-earned money?
That said, I've never come close to the in-town figure on the windon sticker. I routinely averag 11.5-12.5 mpg in town. On the interstate, I have seen 16-17 mpg.
Most of the Dodge diesels owners I know or have spoken to have had little problems. Yes, I have noted a couple that had problems. But the majority have been please with the Cummins' motor and the truck.
I have an acquaintance that thought his Dodge diesel experience was going to be bad because so many GM and Ford owners told him he would. I spoke to him a while back and he remarked that after four years he was convinced that even the Dodge platform was far superior in his opinion (He owned GMs before).
In my experience as a former fleet manager, I believe the Cummins' is the best you can get in a light duty pickup.
Best regards,
Dusty
What are my best bets?
Tundra Ram
5.7 5.7
300 something HP 300 something HP
1/2 ton 1/2 ton
I can get the same exact features on both.
what's the difference? :confuse:
Here are a few links on the previous reliable Tundra:
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_ball_joints.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/07/toyota_tundra_airbag.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2006/toyota_trucks.html
Based on a history like that one wonders what's in store for the new 2007 Tundra. Hopefully it will have a better history than the previous model.
A truck is a truck is a truck. As long as it does what you want it to, that to me is what it is for. Course some do it better than others but at what price and for perceived reliability.
What do I own? '03 Ranger, '05 Titan, '02 Yukon Denali. What do I use to haul or pull heavy loads? A '02 Dodge 3500 van. It will carry more than any of my trucks or a Tundra for that matter. Try loading a pallet of Quikrete in any half ton and I'm sure you will be looking at a bent frame.
Another incident was when a driver of a late model 1500 Dodge Ram told the forklift driver to place the pallet of 12" block tile over the rear tires and it will be ok. Course he didn't remove the tailgate forcing the forklift driver to place the load toward the rear of the bed then pushing it further in over the rear tires. Watching as he did this (I'm the curious type). I noticed that the gap between the cab and the bed opened about 2". The truck owner standing to the side didn't notice so I told him you might want to remove the load and check your truck.
When the driver removed the pallet, the 2" gap didn't move back to its original position. The result? One Dodge truck with a bent frame. Needless to say the owner was pissed. Would've been cheaper for him to rent the 2500 GMC Home Depot has than to have ruined his truck. Course he could have a body shop try and rebend the frame. But what good is that at this point?
Three refrigerators weigh at most 1000 lbs unless we're talking double door humongous. A pallet of quikrete is 40 bags x 60 lbs. + the weight of the pallet making it well over a ton. I wouldn't try that on any half ton even if it could carry the load would it be able to stop it safely? And why risk a bent frame on a new truck when you can rent one for $20 an hour?
http://www.uhaul.com/tips/towing.aspx
morgan
1. 2002-2006 ANZO replacement lamps do not have an amber side reflector.
2. 2002-2006 CK Motorsports replacement lamps do not have a side reflector.
3. 2004 alternator harness may rub on valve cover stud (4.7 motor only).
4. 2002-2003 Aftermarket batteries may leak electrolyte onto an ABS connector and cause ABS circuit failure.
5. 2003 PCM Software fault with Cummins diesel engines and manual transmissions may experience elevated idle speed after extended cruise control use.
6. 2002 Certain 4X4 versions the rear axle flange weld could fatigue and allow the brake caliper assembly to rotate.
I believe the frame rusting issue is on the Tacoma pickup models. I know of one 2002 that you can stick your finger through the frame rails in certain areas. I've not heard of this problem associated with the Tundra.
Someone mentioned the supposed infallibility of Toyota. I can testify that on each occasion to Hoselton Toyota, where we bought our '99 Avalon, I have seen at least one Tundra with the transmission out being repaired or rebuilt. Our Avalon has had the transmission apart twice now for irratic shifting. Coupled with having to replace all of the fuel injectors (one twice), the oil sludge problem, weird electrical problems, wheels corroded through causing leaks and eventual replacement (at $380 a piece!!!), six sway bar links ($100 a piece), and a fish pond of water in the damn trunk, the last thing I mention to anybody is Toyota reliability.
Dusty
My, my a bit touchy aren't we? Name calling? Threats? Why don't you go ahead and plaster? Don't let anyone stop you. Just remember Toyota is the leader in recalls right now. On the famous Toyota sludge you're looking at over 2.2 million vehicles.
We haven't even mention the 4 star crash rating on the new Tundra from the NHTSA sending the Toyota engineers back to the drawing board confused as ever since they did a similar test and according to Toyota should have passed the NHTSA with a 5 star rating.
But, if recalls are your criterion for despise I wouldn't be belittling any other make if you're a Toyota lover.
Again please give some info on toyota 10 plus million recalls, If they are leader in recalls,..I have a lot more from Chrysler and Chevy, But i will let you embarrass yourself first
Since I've had the pleasure to see this once in my life, I would bet that the frame is not what was bent, but that the rear box mounts got crushed.
Best regards,
Dusty
A recommendation: instead of sporting a morally superior attitude, maybe a little humility might allow for intelligent and meaningful discourse.
Here are some of those facts you mentioned but obviously missed yourself:
____________________________________________________________
http://www.automotive.com/2006/49/dodge/ram-2500/recalls/60003.html
07E009000 - SUSPENSION
Recall Date:
FEB 01, 2007
Model Affected:
2006 DODGE RAM 2500
Summary:
CERTAIN LKI ENTERPRISES, INC., BRAND NAME SUPERLIFT SUSPENSION, PITMAN ARMS SOLD AS REPLACEMENT EQUIPMENT FOR 2003-2007 DODGE RAM 2500 AND 3500 4X4 LIGHT TRUCKS. DUE TO INADEQUATE HEAT TREATMENT DURING PRODUCTION, THE AFFECTED PITMAN ARMS MAY DEVELOP CRACKS IN THE UPPER SPLINED ATTACHMENT ATTACHMENT TO THE STEERING OUTPUT SHAFT. MOVEMENT BETWEEN THE PITMAN ARM AND THE OUTPUT SHAFT MAY DEFORM SPLINES, RESULTING IN PREMATURE WEAR AND FATIGUE FAILURE OF THE AFFECTED PITMAN ARM.
Consequence:
PITMAN ARM WEAR OR FAILURE MAY LEAD TO LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL, POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH.
Remedy:
LKI WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND REPLACE THE PITMAN ARM, IF NECESSARY. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING FEBRUARY 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT LKI AT 1-800-551-4955.
Potential Units Affected:
3350
Notes:
L.K.I. ENTERPRISES, INC. 07-01PIT
In addition, the Transfer Case recall only affected 136 units. This "recall," by the way, never made it to individual owners because all of the affected trucks were corrected by dealers before they were delivered to buyers.
_________________________________________________
Flatly stated, there shouldn't be any recalls on any model vehicle. There are different ways to consider recalls and the commensurate gravity of them. The number of recalls per year by a manufacturer, per model, the quantity of vehicles affected, whether the defect was an assembly, design or a component quality problem, and the seriousness of the defect. If you are going to play the raw numbers game, be careful. That technique has the maturity level of arguing that someone is less guilty of stealing because they stole less than someone else.
Some may wish to distract attention away from Toyota's fallibility’s in other areas by concentrating on other manufacturers flaws, such as recalls in this case. But that sophomoric approach could come back to bite you.
Ford Motor Company: -71% at 1.7 million recalls (2005: 6 million)
Chrysler Group: 200% at 2.3 million recalls (2005: 765,777)
Nissan North America: 83% at 1.3 million recalls (2005: 709,838......Toyota, for instance, finished 2006 with 814,507 recalls, far fewer than the over 2 million that were issued in 2005........Toyota:
2.5 million US sales, 0.81 million US recalls, 32% recall rate
GM:
4.1 million US sales, 1.4 million US recalls, 34% recall rate
Ford:
2.9 million US sales, 1.7 million US recalls, 58% recall rate
DaimlerChrysler:
2.4 million US sales, 2.3 million US recalls, 96% recall rate
If Toyota people are going to be so critical of other people's machinery, please be prepared to have Toyota's performance and record be fairly and critically examined. Toyota most certainly does not have a unblemished record with respect to recalls. Furthermore, recalls are only half the story. Our Avalon was not officially recalled until long after we had a severe sludge problem, which I might add, Toyota profusely refused to believe was anything other than our fault. We received the recall on our '99 last November.
How about sharing where the numbers you included in your last post came from. Some your numbers in the previous post don't make any sense.
By the way, my company has over twenty RAM pickups (2003-2006) and not one of them has ever been recalled. Neither has my son's 2003.