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Half-ton Pickups - The full field
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Comments
They closed what was one of their best assembly plants for the F150 ( Norfolk ) which took over a hundred thousand vehicles out of production. The remaining plants were expected to increase production somewhat and thereby become more efficient. It's probably worked just like they planned. But the F150 is old and outside of the interiors it's at the bottom of the pack in most categaries. For the time being though the F-Series is still the top brand.
I don't have a dog in this hunt, however the Tundra has brought more than 3000 jobs to San Antonio, boosted rail freight, added schools etc etc.
It's not as straight forward as 'buy Japanese v. buy American' which I'm guessing was your point.
kcram - Pickups Host
I will say that it looks like they did okay with the 'Taurus/ 500' switch so hopefully they will get it right with the F-150.
With so much riding on the F-150 (Expy is dependant also)they better get it right or the N.America market is going to be lost.
Toyota turns up the heat for 2008:
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2007/10/toyota_releases_13_new_lowend.html
You can get a 4WD DC with the 5.7 for less than $28k! :shades:
DrFill
Here's some additional background about the Ranger. There is now a Free Trade Agreement ( FTA ) with Thailand sitting waiting to be signed by both countries. So what.
Well Thailand is the 2nd largest producer of trucks in the world after the US. They make most of the trucks for Asia. The manufacturers are Toyota, Nissan, Ford !!! et al. The redesigned Ford Ranger diesel has been out in Asia for at least 2 yrs now. It's every bit as up-to-date as the Toyota HiLux diesel ( Tacoma ) which is considered the best truck in the world for most of the world. Nissan's diesel is also world class.
Why aren't these three world class diesels here already and why is Ford letting the Ranger and the St Paul plant wither away? Well when the FTA with Thailand is finally approved all those world class diesels will be free of the 25% 'chicken tax' and will be allowed to come here. There is no need to keep a UAW-controlled plant in existance if they can import more profitable up-to-date diesels.
One article from link
But since this is the half-ton discussion, I'd suggest drumming up some interest in the What would the ideal redesigned Ranger be like? discussion
kcram - Pickups Host
I thought the Chevy 5.3 would be much more efficient than that. Pretty decisive test! :surprise:
DrFill
Slaughtered huh? Even after the Tranny failed? Or like you mentioned, the frame buckled? Surely you do know there is more to towing capacity than just HP/Torque, right? Why else do you think the Crewcab Vmax with 4.10's has a higher towing cap than the 5.7 Crewmax? Even with 14 less HP. Why is that?
Tundra bed sag
Could it be that new frame?
A new risk of fire in Ford SUVs has prompted a recall from the Ford Motor Corp. Ford is recalling about 1,500 2008 Explorer, Explorer Sport Track and Mercury Mountaineer SUVs equipped with the 4.6 liter engine and 6R transmission.
A bolt securing the oil cooler line fittings at the transmission may not have been tightened sufficiently at the Ford assembly plant.
If the bolt loosens, the transmission cooler lines can leak fluid on to the vehicle's the catalytic converter posing the fire risk
With freedom comes responsibility. I think anyone who posts should disclose whether they have any finacial interest in either advocating for or against the vehicle they are discussing. A lot of people read these posts and they help to inform the buying public, which is a fantastic public service which Edmunds is to be commended for.
Here's my pledge regarding all the posts I've made, especially regarding the Tundra and the Silverado:
"I swear I have no financial interest in either General Motors or Toyota. I have never sold, nor do I sell now, any vehicles on a commercial basis. I am not currently employed by a car maker or one of their suppliers, nor have I ever been."
Full disclosure: I have sold a few vehicles, but they have all been my personal cars, and I sold them used to other private parties. I own a few shares of Ford stock, which I inherited. I keep it for sentimental reasons only - Lord knows it has been a lousy investment. I am just a consumer, and I am loyal to no brand. I have owned GMs, Toyotas, Fords, VWs, Mazdas, Isuzus, Nissans, and others. I have no ax to grind with any car maker.
If you are a salesman (my condolences) or are involved in any financial way with the vehicles you discuss, you have a duty to disclose it. It does not invalidate your opinion, but it does put it into proper perspective. Those who stand to profit or lose due to auto sales should "man up" and admit it.
drfill and others - are you man enough to take The Pledge? If not, I am going to rag you on every post you make that expresses a strong advocacy one way or another. Your refusal to take The Pledge will say volumes about you, and others will form their opinions based on that. Fair enuf?
All you have to do to take The Pledge is post "I take The Pledge". You don't have to repeat the whole thing. Simple, and fast. Then we can move on.
Oh, and one more thing. There will be no discussing what the definition of "is", is, or any foolishness like that. You either take it and mean it, or you don't, and accept the consequences of your personal decision.
1offroader
Please say "yes" so I can have a good laugh for the day.
BTW, I call BS to your entire story.
Hmmm, let me think? Nope. Not when comparing it to the GMT900's. There simply is NO comparison. The closest thing would be the engine, but based on my experience, I'll still take the GM LS engine. It is proven and keeps getting better and better. You asked, I answered, honestly.
They have stated they used the 5.3 because that is the engine most people buy, and the 5.7 is the one for Toyota.
My question to you is why was the Tundra the most efficient truck in the test? Stronger, faster, more safety features, roomier, and more efficient, sounds like a winner to me.
I see the bias now....with eyes wide open. :surprise:
DrFill
What does popularity have to do with capability? You buy what you need. Right?
My question to you is why was the Tundra the most efficient truck in the test? Stronger, faster, more safety features, roomier, and more efficient, sounds like a winner to me.
More efficient? I see plenty of reports of poor mileage, 12-13mpg on TS, among reports of 17-18 mpg? WTF?
Stronger? Yep, 14 HP 5.7 vs 6.0. How about the 5.7 vs 6.2? hmm? Yep, WEAKER!!! Faster? again 5.7 vs 5.3/6.0 yes, 6.2"? Debateable. But who cares about 0-60 times in a 6000 lb truck. Irrelevant. More safety features? Such as??? Roomier? Crewcab VS Crewmax cab, yes, but box is smaller. DC vs crewcab...nope. Guess it depends on what you need the room for huh?
Bias is a 2-way street dude.
Before you play the "yeah, but Toyota offers the 5.7 in all configs" card...Remember, GM has the 2500 with Duramax and 6.0 gasser in the 2500 series in RC's. So, they have the bases covered for people who need all that power in a Reg cab.
BTW, you aren't a real doctor, either, are you?
1offroader
Your company? You own this company?
Any company in construction would be nuts to replace 3500s with Tundras. What you going to do when you need a pallet of 12" block? Send the Tundra? Right, it may bring it back but not in one piece. We buy WT series. Stripped down models with nothing fancy. I could careless what the interior looks like as I don't drive them. But they do get the work done.
So you drive these company trucks? Why would they pay for a dressed up 1/2 ton for work? Makes no sense to me? Having sweaty, dirty, construction workers driving a $40K 1/2 ton truck. I can just see it now...lol!! Well to each their own.
If the personal shots continue, some of you will be sent packing.
Knock it off!
kcram - Pickups Host
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9rX1yKQ_G0
OF COURSE we have biases, that's fine, and it's what makes the posts interesting and informative. But when someone is BEING PAID by the company whose product he/she is promoting, that's a whole different ballgame IMO. It's an entirely different dimension. It's so important, in fact, that there are LAWS against it in almost all areas of the economy. It's called "conflict of interest" and it's against the law in most areas of business.
You seem to think it's OK, but it's not OK with me, and I will question anyone's opinion who may who may be motivated by money.
1offroader
Again... stop making this personal.
kcram - Pickups Host
But the sales records do! :shades:
Oh, there is no joy in Detroit. No, there is not.
DrFill
So, tell me doc, in detail....Why should someone choose a Tundra over a GMT900, please back up your reasons. Maybe this will get this back on topic. Let's talk about the trucks, not Toyota's sales records. I don't care about how many Camry's or Prius's or even about the measly 144K Tundra's sold this year. Pretend I am a customer that just walked into your showroom and am looking at the Tundra (I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit just typing that). Tell me why I should buy it. Fair enough?
If you want a test drive, or a walkaround, head over to your Toyota dealer! And form an orderly line (no cuts).
I know your game, it's old....and lame. :P
DrFill
Where can I find objective reviews of this truck type?
I've either owned or regularly drove company Ford, GM, and Toyota pickups. No experience with Dodge or Nissan pickups. I won't tow anything or haul heavy loads. I'd like decent MPG, comfort, power, reliability, and resale value.
OF COURSE we have biases, that's fine, and it's what makes the posts interesting and informative. But when someone is BEING PAID by the company whose product he/she is promoting, that's a whole different ballgame IMO. It's an entirely different dimension. It's so important, in fact, that there are LAWS against it in almost all areas of the economy. It's called "conflict of interest" and it's against the law in most areas of business.
You seem to think it's OK, but it's not OK with me, and I will question anyone's opinion who may who may be motivated by money.
Geeeez, dude. You are really taking this seriously.
We're not talking about insider trading here - let's stick with reality. Why should I care if someone sells Toyotas or Fords or whatever? It doesn't put them in any better position than you or I to win a debate about whose truck is best if we are being objective. What is your motivation for saying so many negative things about the Tundra? No one is inferring that you or anyone else stand to profit from your posts.
To take the position that everyone must take some lame oath that they are not a car salesman or in a position to profit from the success of a car company is completely ridiculous and totally disconnected with reality. I really don't care if you own stock in GM or if you sell GM's for a living. In the end, the reality is that the products speak for themselves.
Both trucks are top of the line right now. Each has different characteristics that put it at the top of the list depending on what you want the truck to do.
The GMT900s have a generally larger payload capacity;
The Tundras has higher towing capacity than all the 5.3L GMs
The Tundra and the 6.0L GMs have approximately equal towing capability.
The Tundra has lower EPA ratings than the 5.3L but slightly higher ratings than the 6.0L.
The Tundra has all the safety equipment standard in all models.
The GMT900s have all the safety equipment standard only on some models and not available at all on other models. ( Yes Ma'am you did hear that correctly.' )
The Tundra is the ONLY truck on the market with a 6 spd tranny and a 4.30 rear end. That helps in towing, in acceleration and in fuel economy vs all the other 5 vehicles. The Tundra has both the highest high gear and the lowest low gear.
The IIHS, the Insurance Industry's testing arm, has given the Tundra its top rating in a frontal crash and top rating overall.
.........Aside: this is a marketing gaffe on GM's part IIHS Large Pickup rankings
The GM trucks are well known for their durability just as the Toyatas are know for their quality, dependability and reliability. Each is a good choice in this regard.
The Turning radius of the Tundra is smaller than all the others on the market making it more manueverable in tight spots.
These generalities apply to all models.
And this website thinks it's better too.
DrFill
The Tundra's superior
Until you look at the frame....
And the crash test ratings
And the lack of OnStar
And the fugly, cheesy interior
And the frog-like front end
But other than that...
1offroader
You forgot:
Lack of a locking rear diff.
NO rainsense wipers
NO heated washer fluid
Less warranty
Fewer config options
Cheap painted plastic interior dash/panels which are already peeling and rubbing off (based on many complaints).
6 spd tranny issues.
Bed Bounce (likely due to wimpy frame design)
Thinner sheet metal (Dents when leaned against).
Crappy ext paint. (Complaints on how easy it is scratched and how thin it is are abundant).
Horrible factory remote start, which does not automatically control heat/AC and requires restarting after entry.
I am sure I missed some things, I'll update as I think of them, there are so many inferiorities, it's hard to remember them all.
Oh, did I mention it's FUGLY!!!???
If you can't stay on topic here, just leave.
If you can't follow the rules - http://www.edmunds.com/townhall/memberagreement.html - appropriate action will be taken.
Are we clear on this?
kcram - Pickups Host
NO rainsense wipers
NO heated washer fluid
Less warranty
Fewer config options
Cheap painted plastic interior dash/panels which are already peeling and rubbing off (based on many complaints).
6 spd tranny issues.
Bed Bounce (likely due to wimpy frame design)
Thinner sheet metal (Dents when leaned against).
Crappy ext paint. (Complaints on how easy it is scratched and how thin it is are abundant).
Horrible factory remote start, which does not automatically control heat/AC and requires restarting after entry.
I am sure I missed some things, I'll update as I think of them, there are so many inferiorities, it's hard to remember them all.
Oh, did I mention it's FUGLY!!!???
Edit: I knew I forgot some, here is a biggie...
NO Auto4WD transfer case available in Tundra. GM has had this since 1988. And it is simply awesome.
Best to steer consumers away from such minor issues.
DrFill