Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!

Grammar and the Peeves that Pet It

1567810

Comments

  • doggrandmadoggrandma Member Posts: 144
    This is classic! I laugh out loud every time I think of this joke. Thanks for posting. :D
  • fezofezo Member Posts: 10,384
    It has the same effect on me. It's the best single English major type joke I've ever heard. Believe it or not it was in a biography I was reading a couple of years ago.
    2015 Mazda 6 Grand Touring, 2014 Mazda 3 Sport Hatchback, 1999 Mazda Miata 2004 Toyota Camry LE, 1999.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Heard on the radio:
    "That is, hands-down, one of the best songs ever recorded."

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • alltorquealltorque Member Posts: 535
    Sign in a Swedish cocktail lounge :

    "Ladies are requested not to have children in the bar".

    Sign outside an English pub, (my local) : (OPA is our abbreviation for Old Age Pensioner)

    "OAP special - buy one get one free".

    We all knew it referred to meals purchased by OAPs but..................
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    I am not seeing the fail in that sentence. Will you explain?
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,233
    Usually when something is reallly good, hands are raised in praise, not put down.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    After some extensive internet searching, "hands down" came from horse racing in the 19th century. If a jockey was far ahead of the competition, he would loosen his hold of the reins and his hands would drop. It would be similar to a runner easing up at the finish line.

    Perhaps our beloved host was referring to "one of the best" in that sentence. Hands down means there is no competition. One of the best means there might be plenty of competition. Hence the "superlative fail" reference. :)
  • tmarttmart Member Posts: 2,233
    I think you're right, since there can be only one best. Didn't know about the horse reference.
    Thanks.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    The hands down makes sense, as that does predicate a lack of competition. I was focusing on the "one of the best" portion of the sentence as the superlative.

    I don't agree with there only being able to be one best, though. Best merely refers to the top tier: Good, better, best. If there is a group of something all at the same level, above all other levels, then that group is the best. One of that group is, therefore, one of the best.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Nah, I'm not buying that. :shades:

    If you say the "Best 5 Cities" in America, then what? Do we need a "bestest"?
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    Only Kirstie knows what she meant for sure but I agree with Shifty. I don't know where you draw the line between a group of the best recordings and the next one below that. When you add "hands down", you are stating that there is a group far beyond everything else.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah I mean we all use terms like "ten best used cars" and we always will---but that emphatic "hands down" was too-too.
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    In Cajun country you frequently hear "more better." Perhaps not grammatically correct, but I kind of like it. :blush:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I thought it was mo' betta.

    Spelling counts. :)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    "hands-down" usually refers to the winner - THE superlative. It is either one of the best, or "hands-down" THE best. Might as well say it stands alone as one of the best songs, or is the most unique song (implying that there are others that are unique, but less so).

    A place can be THE best city, or be one of the best cities, but can't be hands-down, one of the best cities.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    I get increasingly frustrated with the group of people who expect to be excused from using English correctly (including spelling and grammar), and who disdain criticism of poor usage, but would be forced to accept such criticism if the error was made in any other subject.

    If you wrote a check to the bank to pay off a loan and it was less than the amount owed due to incorrect calculation, would anyone expect the bank to accept it because "you knew what I meant, it was close enough"? Not likely.

    It's not the mistakes I mind - not everyone is good at everything. It's the excusing of the mistake as if the burden should be on the reader to decipher the intended meaning that bothers me. Nothing wrong with a simple, "oops."

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    First of all, I agree. I'm not sure it is limited to grammar and spelling though.

    There are a lot of folks who shrug off basic mathematical mistakes by saying "I was never good at math." In some cases, it is almost a badge of honor and perfectly acceptable.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    If there is one thing that is clearly better than everything else, it can stand alone as the best, but if that is not the case and there are several just as good as one another, yet better than all the rest, that group becomes the best. I like the way Kirstie explained it....

    "hands-down" usually refers to the winner - THE superlative. It is either one of the best, or "hands-down" THE best. Might as well say it stands alone as one of the best songs, or is the most unique song (implying that there are others that are unique, but less so).

    A place can be THE best city, or be one of the best cities, but can't be hands-down, one of the best cities.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    I am not sure how pervasive this expectation is between the various generations, but it seems to me that younger people (say sub-20 to 25) tend to be the worst offenders. Maybe it has something to do with the internet subculture / texting crowd. My niece, as a closely-related example, is horrible at spelling and grammar. I gently nudge her about it now and again, yet she idly laughs it off as "no big deal" or "u got wut I ment." :sick:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    edited November 2010
    Some of these folks will be in for a HUGE shock when they try to get grown-up jobs. I was on a hiring panel for a large corporation, and people who failed to communicate well were immediately disqualified from consideration. I also worked at a big med school and saw people, who were otherwise perfectly capable, fail to get promoted because their supervisor felt their email communications to higher-ups would reflect poorly on the University - simple things like failing to use spell-check, or any punctuation at all.

    One of my kids has the same mindset as your niece. It drives me nuts. When she'd ask for money as a teen, I often considered giving her a $1 bill rather than a $20 hoping she'd "git wat i ment." :)

    BTW, my math skills are appalling. Just... really bad. However, I use tools and resources available to me to ensure that no one else has to pay the price for my shortcoming.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Language changes and adapts. Math doesn't.

    (Hm, I have a feeling I might be hearing from Tidester any minute now about that).

    Kirstie, we need to have the implant done. All we need are a couple of wires hanging down that we can hook a 9v battery to when it's time to balance the checkbook (link).
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Yes, it does. But it doesn't always do so by demand of the lazy. I'm talking about run-on paragraphs with no punctuation - multiple sentences with no periods or commas. I'm not even a stickler for old-style rules like "don't end sentences with prepositions." I'm around a fair number of teenagers regularly, and they often say, "well, people shouldn't judge you just because...". That statement doesn't change the fact that people DO get an impression based on presentation - and if that's difficult-to-decipher writing, in many instances that impression isn't going to be "this person is competent."

    And no, math doesn't seem to change, though the ways of DOING math seem to change (too often for me to keep up with).

    Implants might mess up the few other skills I currently have! I'll just continue to be thankful for Excel, calculators, and online banking. :)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 16,756
    I am curious, how have things worked out for that child of yours? :)
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100, 1976 Ford F250
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    I'm with you on this one Kirstie. Just because people who want a little break on something keep saying, "Cut me some flack", doesn't meant they're not completely wrong :shades:

    English isn't dead, but the use of it sure seems to be on life support!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2010
    Oh thee of little faith.

    (Pardon me, I meant "oh thou of little faith". Thee is so archaic).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think it's "Ye of little faith", plural of thee (accusative form of the nominative "thou").

    Thou is nominative, thee is accusative, and so I guess ye is accusative plural ??
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, yeah, but I was addressing singular Sneakers.

    This is a fine fare thee well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Okay, thee wiggled out of that one.
  • tallman1tallman1 Member Posts: 1,874
    One of my kids has the same mindset as your niece.

    The bright side is that some kids are able to walk both paths. My daughter, who is a high school senior, will use texting shorthand but she gets on her friends if they aren't using good grammar when they speak or write papers.

    It might be a little like swearing. There are some words one uses around friends but never around parents. ;)

    I know how important good communication is now but I wonder what it will be like when these kids are in their 30s, 40s or beyond. I'm also curious if tattoos will ever be accepted in the corporate world when the younger crowd moves into leadership positions.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    edited November 2010
    I was on a hiring panel for a large corporation, and people who failed to communicate well were immediately disqualified from consideration.

    Unfortunately that's not always the case.
    I have access to the inner workings of a large power company, where the supposedly lesser educated older blue collar workers take great delight in printing out and correcting the memos and commandments issued by the generally younger middle and upper managenent.

    Notice boards in the break rooms (which are never visited by the aforesaid middle and upper management), display amazing examples of ignorance in sentence construction, spelling, grammer, and a general lack of knowledge in regard to the correct meaning of words.
    "I advice you to take note..." often appears, along with "It was bought to my attention..." and "With affect from the 12th...." or "I complement you on achieving..."

    While there may be isolated pockets of industry determined to uphold standards, it's hard to imagine they're in the majority when one sees a similar lack of basic communication skill in newspapers, advertisments (even by large corporations), and of late in both fiction and non-fiction books.

    These days I seem to be constantly saying to myself "How many people must have approved this before it went to print?"

    I wish you were right Kirstie, but I fear we've passed the tipping point.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited November 2010
    >Notice boards in the break rooms (which are never visited by the aforesaid middle and upper management), display amazing examples of ignorance in sentence construction, spelling, grammer, and a general lack of knowledge in regard to the correct meaning of words

    Usually those get graded in red ink anonymously in some places. I recommend using your left hand in order to hide any handwriting or printing characteristics of the grader.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I would think that turning in an illiterate resume and having a compromising photo of yourself on Facebook are not conducive to your future employment.

    Unless of course you are in politics. :P
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    Oh goodness, yes - it's all about who you're with and what situation you're in. I don't worry about poor sentence structure or grammar when I'm texting, talking to friends, sending a quick email, or any of that. It's just important to know when to pull out the skills and be able to use 'em.

    I think *some* tattoos are already accepted, but I'm thinking that if you get a spider web tattoo on your neck, that's not likely to be accepted in a professional, high-level customer interface position in our lifetimes. Even face piercings are more acceptable than they were, but turning your face into a tackle box is still likely to limit one's career potential, IMO.

    xwesx, it's not working out that well for her. She's starting to learn to have others look over her resume and letters, and has decided that spell-check is her friend. She's just now starting to learn that the jobs you get when you've decided that you shouldn't have to conform to others' standards aren't that hot.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Some of y'all couldn't care less, but I enjoyed this article in today's NY Times.

    Which Language Rules to Flout. Or Flaunt?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 235,188
    Wow.... after that great exchange on grammar, which (that?) nearly put me to sleep, I notice 239 reader comments.. :surprise:

    Geez....

    Edmunds Price Checker
    Edmunds Lease Calculator
    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I think you mean "jeez".

    "Geez" is an Ethiopian liturgical language :P
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I trust those guys also know how many angels are in fact on the head of a pin?
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    edited January 2013
    I think you mean "jeez".

    Pretty sure you meant to say "meant". :P

    Speaking of which..I'm guilty of geez myself sometimes, Im pretty sure..

    Dang those technicalities..(no disrespect to the Ethiopian language of course)
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    "I've never seen or heard a 2014 Kia Forte TV commercial, and I haven't heard a Kia staffer say the name out loud. If I had they'd probably go for the haughtier for-tay because its sounds Frenchier, even though it isn't."

    I just have to love an article about grammar and persnickety pronunciation in which a word like "Frenchier" makes it debut. :)

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I don't have the integra to compose such an article - Santa Monica would sooner fall into the Pacifica before I could manage that. :shades:
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    has come back from the dead.

    Unlike quite a few others.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gotta write 'em to get 'em.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    What does this mean? Mr.ÐMrs.

    Does it mean Mr. and Mrs. ? I was filling out a form and did not want them to know the gender, and was surprised to see Mr.ÐMrs. as one of the options. I would feel a bit better about choosing Mr.+Mrs. had that been an option. Or maybe it means 'or'? Wanted to make sure it didn't mean Mr./sex change- to/Mrs. or some other such bizarreness..lol. (not that there's anything-Seinfeld- wrong with that) lol. This world we have now ya just never know what the new fang-dangled titles mean. I was feeling outta the possible new PC loop, haha

    But also, this is a pet peeve of mine, when filling out a form, making one of those a MUST FILL box. It is not any of their business when I am enquiring about a car brand, if I am male or female.

    I tried Googling my question and it was not as easy as one would think to find the answer. Many skirted around it but didn't really 'say' it meant 'and' or 'or'.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    I'm thinking it's a miscode in the HTML on a website that inadvertently entered a character in place of the "or".
    I looked it up (didn't have a clue) and found it's an Old English character that doesn't seem to have any meaning all by itself.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Could be, although I thought I had seen this on more than one site in the past.
    Thanks
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,498
    edited October 2013
    my list of followed boards, I saw this one and thought I'd take a trip down memory lane.

    Lots of good posts in the early days and, unlike so many other boards that are deader than Elvis, many of the people who posted at the beginning are still active. Pat (RIP) is an exception, but there are several familiar names.

    My guess is that the number of casual visitors to this board and many (most?) others is way down. That, or the architecture of the site hides little treasures like this one. Either way, it's disappointing that boards like this that amused me (and others, perhaps) are becoming more and more rare.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >That, or the architecture of the site hides little treasures like this one.

    I had suggested long ago that Edmunds put random links to the obscure gems in their system like this one on the entry page, must as the Most Popular in Forums shows the most active discussions in terms of posts.

    Maybe that's an upgrade that can be added in the future. It's some of the little oddities like this and things like Stories from the Sales Frontlines that make Edmunds really great for me. It's a big step above many of the forums that I frequent for my own specific car brand interests.

    And don't forget the many good, good people who are here.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,145
    In the new platform, we do have more capabilities to promote/highlight content, and that will largely be user-driven.

    There's a separate "Best of" page there, where forums content is featured based on member "reactions" to posts. This means that if you see something interesting, funny, great, etc., you can give it a "like" or an "awesome." Content with the most positive reactions gets automatically featured on the Best of page.

    Hosts can also promote content there with a one-click move, so once we get there, if you see something interesting, or that hasn't been featured in awhile, we can certainly get it to appear there.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >There's a separate "Best of" page there, w...
    you can give it a "like" or an "awesome."
    Content with the most positive reactions gets automatically featured on the Best of page.

    That all sounds good. It will be worth the "teething pains" that will likely come with the turnover when the new platform gets here.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

Sign In or Register to comment.