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2001 - 2006 Honda CR-Vs

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  • alphajcalphajc Posts: 34
    Let's all put pressure on Honda to recall all 2003 and 2004 CR-Vs. Tell them that you don't want to be driving in a timebomb. I'm writing up a letter right now. It likely won't help the cause, but it can't hurt either. This kind of ignorance by car manufacturers cause people to die (remember Ford Pinto?). Just because a car leaks oil or oil spill wasn't cleaned up, doesn't mean the car should go up in flames.

    American Honda Motor Co
    Honda Automobile Customer Service
    1919 Torrance Bl.
    Mail Stop: 500 - 2N - 7D
    Torrance, CA 90501-2746
    (800) 999-1009

    We CR-V drivers need to do something before someone actually dies...because it could be one of us. I will never feel safe driving this car again, after my first oil change...
  • a1speciala1special Posts: 13
    JC Whitney used to sell a kit that one could move the oil filter to a better location. I believe it was a length of pressure hose with an end that attached to the engin's filter plate and at the other end a filter mounting bracket that bolted on the somewhere inside of the fender. You could use one of the big Fram PH1 filters, too.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    In Toyota's defense...They had a point. In nearly all the cases I saw on Edmunds, everyone changed thier oil by mileage but not time interval. Nearly all of them drove very little and took a long time to get to the mileage limit. Taken strictly by the letter of the manual, they were wrong.

    Additionally, in the case of the sludge, you could get sludge even if you followed every direction OTHER than the interval.

    In this case you have to totally mess up the installation of the oil filter to cause a fire. Double, Crimped, or pinched gasket is not Hondas fault. If the oil is changed and the oil filter checked for leaks after installation there should be no fire. There have been over 200,000 instances of diligent techs correctly completing this procedure. NHTSA correctly released Honda of responsibility.

    "Just because a car leaks oil or oil spill wasn't cleaned up, doesn't mean the car should go up in flames."

    "We CR-V drivers need to do something before someone actually dies"

    You can. Make sure your car isn't leaking after you get your oil changed.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,677
    We disagree and that's O.K. A lot of other makes and models have hot exhaust pipes close to the oil filters too and fires can happen if the person installing the filter is careless.

    gee35, you are right on!
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    There a difference between a car "leaking oil" and someone incorrectly fixing the car. It's the same as someone leaving the o-washers off the fuel filter after changing it. The resulting fire isn't Hondas fault.

    No matter how you try to paint it, the facts so far point to the fires starting after the oil was changed. If it were Hondas fault, the cars would catch on fire at any time.

    It's easy to avoid too. Just make sure you make sure you chek under your car after the oil is changed. I'm sure the warranty claims are for lock-up engines after oil changes.
  • stragerstrager Posts: 308
    When Honda announced the transmission recall in late June covering Accords and TLs, the press release included the following: "We are acting out of an abundance of caution to ensure that this doesn't become an issue for our customers," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., Inc.

    It seems to me the CR-V problem also calls for an abundance of caution, especially since it will be difficult for Honda to control the quality of every single oil change procedure.
  • sabrina9sabrina9 Posts: 148
    If the warranty claims are for locked up engines after oil changes, fair enough. Why didn't Honda reimburse me for my entire car? Not my fault. Likely they subrogated against the dealers for the other claims - they could have done that for me and the others.
    I agree with Steve 100%. After almost 200 (164 warranty + 27 fires) cars having leaks FOR WHATEVER REASON, the notice from Honda ONLY came after they were forced to do it because of the NHTSA recall and bad publicity. Sorry, I hope a class action lawyer sees this and goes after Honda big time.

    I'll drop my suit if the president of Honda lets ME change the oil on his 04 CRV and he drives off with his two kids strapped in the back seat. From start to finish I had less than 15 seconds.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    Alphajc, check your email. We don't need to keep posting the same photo in here over and over, especially since we have a large number of members on a dial-up connection. Thanks,

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
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  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    We don't know if they covered the damages. Looks like the oil change facility should be at fault.

    Any way you look at it, the incorrectly installed filter caused the fire. Not the design. If the filter were installed properly there would be no fire. Just like on the other 200,000 CR-V's.

    Looks like NHTSA agreed with Honda. There should be no class-action when there is nothing wrong with the car, just bad service.
  • iamsamiamsam Posts: 12
    I have to call you on this. You said,

    "This can happen on any car by the way and some of those cars have exhaust pipes that can get soaked with oil too.

    And, "... A lot of other makes and models have hot exhaust pipes close to the oil filters too and fires can happen if the person installing the filter is careless."

    Why don't you use your head and take it one step further, "Why don't other cars catch fire because of oil spill???" If they all do, please show us the statistics. More specifically, why do the older model year CR-Vs not catching fire from oil spill? Are Honda technicians "specially trained" to only make "careless mistake" on '03-'04 CR-Vs?

    You see, the root cause is in the things that Honda can't explain (or doesn't want to). It is a DESIGN FLAW! "This can happen on any car by the way and some of those cars have exhaust pipes that can get soaked with oil too. Doesn't Honda know this? If something can catch or get in touch with oil, make sure that something won't be too hot to cause fire! Do they lack of common sense, or what?

    All of a sudden, my conspiracy theory is on fire, too.
  • iamsamiamsam Posts: 12
    "Any way you look at it, the incorrectly installed filter caused the fire. Not the design. If the filter were installed properly there would be no fire. Just like on the other 200,000 CR-V's."

    Gee, you mean while 200 out of 200,000 CR-Vs had incorrectly installed filters (of which at least 27 caught fire), the other older model year CR-Vs (more than double that figure) ALL HAD CORRECTLY INSTALLED filters? You can do better than that.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,677
    I'm sure other cars HAVE had fires based on incorrectly installed oil filters. If you want a link or empirical proof, I'm sorry, I don't have it. Anytime oil gets sprayed on a hot exhaust system a fire can erupt.
  • kizhekizhe Posts: 242
    Mark my words: This is only the beginning. Since the story was broken in the media - soon we will have more facts. The convenient Honda's story of ".. this is all grease-monkey's fault", which everybody repeat like a gospel here, soon will be challenged by more interesting details. For us (Town Hall fans) this issue is no big news. But how everything changed when it transpired to the press! Somebody might try to duplicate fire - like a "myths busters" team. Some experienced and true independent experts (which are NOT on Honda's payroll) might have their word too.
    Again, mark my words, I believe there is something MORE to the problem then only a "double gasket". Actually most vocal victim here - Sabrina admitted that he/she did not have a "double gasket" problem.
    Did he/she had a pinched gasket? Please, prove it!
    I was skeptical of the whole thing from start - because I did oil/filter change on my CR-V 03 myself five times already and at no time my gasket stuck to the plate - NOT EVEN A LITTLE!
    I have to repeat a point of many here:
    for whatever reason oil is leaking - double or pinched gasket, or defective filter, or drunken "grease-monkey", or ... the CAR
    should not burst into flames.
    And I am sure IT will be the major point of future lawsuit. We do not have a shortage of lawyers in the US, don't we?
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,417
    430,000 PT Cruisers May Have Engine-Fire Risk (KIRO)

    GM issues recall because fuel leak can cause engine fire (ABC13)

    U.S. Gov't Investigates GM Engine Fire Reports (Pulse24.com)

    and Car fires: Play the rules safe (Times of India)

    I bet no one else remembers these reports either; I sure don't.

    Steve, Host

    Moderator
    Need help navigating? stever@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,110
    "Why don't other cars catch fire because of oil spill???"

    Actually they do. Here's an article on Engine Fires from Oil Leaks and here's a boatload of recalls due to engine fires listed by NHTSA.

    tidester, host
  • extechextech Posts: 12
    I used to be a Honda tech from 1980 until 2000, and I worked at new car dealerships about 75% of the time. I can remember many engines lost because oil filters or drain plugs were left loose during an oil change, which is always the fault of the mechanic, and rightly so. However, I can't remember a single case when one of those cars caught fire due to the oil leak, be it a valve cover, oil pan gasket, filter, or drain plug leak. In most new car dealerships the techs only get paid 0.2 or 0.3 hours for an oil change, which means they get paid 12 minutes from the second they receive a repair order to the point where they turn in the paperwork after finishing the work. In plain English, they only get paid about $ 3.00 to $ 4.50 for an oil change which normally can take 30 minutes. They have no time to spend cleaning up any spills. In my opinion, Honda needs to design a catch plate of some sort to direct any spills away from the exhaust system and onto the ground where it doesn't hurt more than the concrete floor.
  • alphajcalphajc Posts: 34
    I am happy that we're having a good discussion over this serious issue.

    I totally agree with iamsam. How are 03-04 Honda CR-Vs having trouble with this "oil goof" issue...while all previous CR-Vs and all other Hondas don't? I find it too hard to believe that trained oil technicians happen to make mistakes by chance just on 03-04 CR-Vs, which was apparently serious enough to get the attention of the NHTSB and national media attention. This was not caused by random mistakes by technicians folks. Obviously there is some design flaw (minor or serious) that is making fires more likely on 03/04 CR-Vs than any other model of cars following an oil change. When Honda could have stepped up to the plate with a fix...they instead chose to point fingers as a resolution...a resolution that costed them $0.00 or maybe $500 in faxes.

    Botched oil changes unless really serious do not cause engine fires. Let's indeed put the CEO of Honda and his family inside a 2004 CR-V, right after an oil change at Jiffy Lube. Something simple as an "oil change" will never be the same for CR-V owners again.

    In the long run, I guarantee this will cost Honda bookoo bucks. While they buy time and delay, more cars will burn up, triggering lawsuits, sales will go down...and then finally they recall. Just ask Ford and Firestone what are the consequences of doing such a thing.

    My CR-V is at 4200 miles, I will play Russian Roulette at a Honda dealer at 5000 miles. If you don't hear from me again, I think you'll know what happened.
  • stove1stove1 Posts: 53
    Are all the fires only after the first oil change, not the second , third ? This could indicate factory screwed on the filter wrongly causing gasket to fail to come clean.

    Are the burned CRVs from Japan or England or both ?

    Before I traded in my 02 for a 4runner I changed oil 4 times at the dealer. The oil filter sits right on top a dished piece of chasis . Every time you take the filter off, half a cup of oil is collected on the chasis. That oil gets blown onto the exhaust pipe once you reach 40 mph. There were oily burnt spots on the exhasut pipe. Not enough to burn the car but a leaky filter will definitely do it.
  • wenwen Posts: 42
    stove1 asked:
    Are all the fires only after the first oil change, not the second , third ? This could indicate factory screwed on the filter wrongly causing gasket to fail to come clean.
    Are the burned CRVs from Japan or England or both ?

    GREAT QUESTION........... I am anxiously waiting to hear a truthful answer, but I am sure that both the Japan plant and U.K. plant "import" the SAME COMPLETED engines & transmissions from the same place .... JAPAN, so this might not have any bearing, but still an interesting point !!

    Now as far as "after the FIRST OIL/FILTER change"......... THIS makes sense and it certainlk has me wondering if ANY of the 27 CR-V's that caught fire had the trouble after the SECOND, THIRD or FORTH oil/filter change??

    I remember in my '90 AND '95 4cyl. Accords, I hated the fact Honda located the oil FILTER directly OVER the exhaust manifold. I always made a temporarily "deflector/protector" out of ALUMINUM FOIL and "wrapped the exhaust pipe under the filter area". Then....... out of an old plastic windshield washer fluid bottle I cut down a sort of "funnel", but even BEFORE removing the filter (filled with oil) I would punch a HOLE in it with a spring loaded center punch and let the oil "trickle" out into this homemade funnel... then I would remove it as well as the aluminum foil and spray the Hell out of the area with Brakleen, perhaps using even TWO cans !! It was 100% spotless.
    NOW the "TRUTH"............. as the SERVICE MANAGER of a Chrysler Dealership in a small farm town, in Fairfield County Connecticut. I personally witness over 50% of our oil/filter changes performed by honest, harworking, but INEXPERIENCED kids right out of High School. Drip, drip, drip.. slop, slop, slop ..... they would NEVER, EVER consider spraying Brakeleen over the "filter mounting boss" and letting it drip down and "cleanse" ANY "spilled oil"... especially when the owner charges the customer $9.50 PER CAN (adds to work order on ALL brake jobs) for Brakeleen. Now I, on the other hand, do ALL (100%) of MY OWN WORK at home. I get the "alcohol based" Wurth Brakleen for less than $2.25 per can. I always spray the Hell out of the area around, above, especially UNDER the oil filter and near ANY exhaust pipe, and..... I ALWAYS change the drain plug "crush gasket" (aluminum, brass or whatever) at EVERY OIL CHANGE. The ONLY time that OUR Chrysler Dealership changes the gasket is if the dran plug is really mashed up and they are forced to relace this drain plug (at a customer cost of additional $5.50)

    For over 35 YEARS I have been changing ALL my own OIL & FILTERS. The horror stories I have herad about "Jiffy Lube", "10-Minute Oil Change", etc. are unbelievable. My Wife's friend made the mistake ONCE of going to one and they did not tighten the drain plug. Her engine (Honda Civic) which (get this) was just recently rebuilt for over $2,500, was seized up three days later when the "loose" drain plug fell out as she was going 70 MPH on the highway. Took OVER 6 months to settle the claim in court. I am 51 years old now, my biggest fear is than someday I will have to "trust" a Mechanic to change my oil & filter ........ this is even bigger than my "other fear", but thanks to Viagra I don't worry about THAT one :-) !!
  • cybernut04cybernut04 Posts: 98
    My wife & I each bought new cars this year, planning to pay them off in four years, just before we retire. That way, we won't have any car payments going into retirement. We bought a Toyota Sienna and a Honda CR-V - both highly rated by Edmunds and others.

    We bought these vehicles because of the features they offered, the price we could get, and the reputation for QUALITY. That doesn't mean I expected each vehicle to be problem-free. I've had two Hondas before (my son has one of them now) and two Toyotas before, and each of those vehicles was recalled for one reason or another.

    Recalls don't bother me, because I've always felt that a recall was one of the ways in which the manufacturer ensured quality -- a problem was discovered and by God the problem was fixed.

    My CR-V has 3800 miles on it. It will go to the dealer at 5,000 for an oil change. And this is NOT something I'm looking forward to.

    If Honda does nothing other than instruct its technicians to do a better job, CR-Vs will continue to catch fire, if for no other reason than not all CR-V oil changes are performed by Honda technicians. As CR-Vs continue to burn, people who are rightfully scared for their lives will bail out ... and what kind of re-sale value do you think a CR-V will have?

    I bought what I thought were very good vehicles, vehicles I could keep for a long time (as I have with the other Toyotas and Hondas I've owned). But if Honda doesn't fix this, and fix it soon, I'm going to bail out, take whatever loss I have to take to rid myself of a firetrap, and buy something other than a Honda.

    A product is only as good as the company that stands behind it. Where's Honda when we need them?
  • sabrina9sabrina9 Posts: 148
    The CRVs burned were from England and Japan, but it seems more were England, but that could be just a statistical thing, considering there are only two plants -like 20 heads in a row on a coin toss.

    All of the burned cars were at 10K or less, indicating they were likely at the first oil change.

    Only a VERY small fraction of the 27 had double gaskets - was it 9 (I forget but posted this previously). Some had no explanation at all.

    The PT cruiser recall had NINE reports of fire out of 430,000 vehicles. Anyone good at math. Let's see 9 of 430,000 is a lot less percentage than 27 out of 200,000 (not counting warranty claims which are related to oil problems (else it would not have been reported to NHTSA)

    The numbers Honda used are phony. They stopped counting on 2/28/04. No fires reported (except for the 04's) are included in that number. And they only admitted to the 4 04's on theNHTSA site, which we know is a small amount of the total.

    I have gotten at least one email from a person who had his oil changed and got a few miles and oil lite comes on. No fire or damage but had to go back to delaer. Incidences like that are not counted.

    As the Captain on the Titanic should have realized -It's not the tip of the iceburg that sinks you....
  • kizhekizhe Posts: 242
    and see if CR-V's would keep burning after all "drastic" measures taken by Honda.
    As Sabrina rightly stated ".. The numbers Honda used are phony... ". So ... expect more of it.
    The problem could be more widespread. Honda said there have been 164 warranty claims related to the issue. What does it mean? Burned... but not to the cinder?
    If cars would still keep burning we will know about it very soon.
  • gee35coupegee35coupe Posts: 3,475
    That was only 4 months ago. You make it sould like a whole model year has gone by. In case you didn't know, it takes time for investigations, reports, etc to be done on stuff like this. It ain't like they would/could provide a count up to the last minute. I think they are doing the best they can to provide information that recent. Besides it was a six month investigation.
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0407/09/autos-207870.htm

    Everyone's looking for a conspiracy. Looks like NHTSA was satisfied with the result. It's not like they wouldn't get a kick out of charging Honda with fault in these cases.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5403348/

    PT Cruiser most important sentence
    NHTSA says a high-pressure power steering hose can loosen and come into contact with other engine parts. It can spark a fire if power steering fluid leaks out.
    That's a design flaw. Not someone messing up the oil filter install.

    Did you read the NHTSA page above?
    http://www.interfire.org/res_file/m_fse_mv.asp#gen

    It's not like they have a aversion to requiring a recall. They didn't since it's not Hondas fault the cars catch on fire. If you don't like it, stop blaming Honda alone, your government Highway Safety Dept also thinks it's the technician's fault.

    I looked at a few of the recalls... Check this one..
    http://www.interfire.org/features/recallview.asp?date=01212002

    They recalled Ferrari because of a redesign of the oil filter may cause a fire. I think that goes even further to show NHTSA must agree with Honda (and me) that the fault lies squarely at the foot of the tech. I mean if you really look at it, there are many flammable liquids under the hood of the car. Any screw-up by the tech could cause a fire.
  • deminindeminin Posts: 214
    It doesn't matter what make/model are you own...a hurry up oil change is just a disaster waiting to happen. The oil change guy at the dealer is probably the lowest paid guy in the shop. The high school kid working at Jiffy-lube is under pressure to get it done in 10 minutes or less. When you couple that with what sounds to me a design that makes the job a bit difficult to begin with, you are sure to have troubles. The engineers should ALWAYS design an engine with easy access to the filter, and no drip path to the exhaust. Since they often don't follow those simple rules, I always do my own. At least, I know I am not watching the clock, and when I'm done, the job is done right. I do not look forward to the day when I am so old that I have to take my car in for maintainance. I don't think I've ever owned a car where the oil filter sat above the exhaust manifold...and I hopefully never will.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,677
    For the oil filter to be above the exhaust system and not a problem either if common sense is applied.

    Amazing how people love to jump on the bandwagon and try to make the very worst out of a situation.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,677
    You can think whatever you wish. I do use my head and I use caution and common sense when I change my oil.

    I would also make sure I removed the old gasket before installing a new filter and I would tighten it properly.

    And i wouldn't have any oil leaks either as the overwhelming majority do not.
  • jason9999jason9999 Posts: 3
    stager, the quote you found about Honda's transmission problem is perfect!

    "We are acting out of an abundance of caution to ensure that this doesn't become an issue for our customers," said Tom Elliott, executive vice president of American Honda Motor Co., Inc.

    LOL...just shows you how empty suits will say whatever they need to in a press release when they really don't mean it!

    Does anyone really think Honda is acting out of an "abundance of caution" for the customer with their lame response to this fire issue?

    Perhaps for this fire problem the press release should read "We are acting out of an abundance of arrogance because we feel we have the power to train the entire world on our new specialized procedure to change an oil filter which is required to make up for our design/maufacturing problems"

    Honda just doesn't get it.
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Posts: 934
    If changing the oil on the CRV is sooooooooooooo Picky and must be done just right then eventually more and more fires will occur. Is Honda going to sue Jiffy Lube and Sears and the local Texaco. How about they sue the owners who change their own oil. Come on, like a prior poster said, oil drips. The solution is better placed oil filter or gasket or something.

    ISeelHondas said there is a perception issue. It may be perception or it may be we are about to start see a huge amount of fire data. Either way Honda will never be able to pass the buck on this one.

    Oh and someone posted that the owner should not leave the oil change facility w/out making sure there is no oil mess. How the heck do you do that? Do I have them put the car on the lift? Is there a white glove test I should do? Come on, give me a break.
  • cybernut04cybernut04 Posts: 98
    gee35coupe said:
    Everyone's looking for a conspiracy. Looks like NHTSA was satisfied with the result. It's not like they wouldn't get a kick out of charging Honda with fault in these cases.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5403348/


    Yeah, I've read the article, including the part that says:
    "But auto safety advocates say they're dismayed that the agency didn't take a stronger stand. "Relatively new cars catching on fire? Running the risk of injuring their occupants? It's a very unusual and a very dangerous situation," said Sally Greenberg of Consumers Union, publisher of Consumer Reports. The fact that a routine oil change could have such catastrophic results suggests "a dire and a dangerous situation that both the automaker and the auto safety agency should have looked much more closely at," she said."

    That makes a lot of sense to me. Really, how many models of Hondas are there, and how many oil filters are changed by Honda technicians, and it's only the 2003 and 2004 CR-Vs, and apparently only at the first oil change, that are problems? What are the odds of this happening to only two years of one specific model and only after the first oil change??

    They didn't since it's not Hondas fault the cars catch on fire. If you don't like it, stop blaming Honda alone, your government Highway Safety Dept also thinks it's the technician's fault.

    You know, somehow knowing that Honda and NHTSA are agreed that suddenly Honda technicians can't do an oil change properly doesn't feel me feel any more comfortable as I come up to my first oil change. No, I don't like it, and who the hell are you to tell me who to blame or not blame?
  • channelchannel Posts: 1
    I just bought Honda CRV-EX 2004 Model. This is the first time I have bought a Honda. I do have some questions? 1)is the antenna stay up all the time? 2) I see a red light blinking for anti theft system after the car is parked. Also I recently heard CRV's cathing fire after first oil change? By the way I paid $21775.00 plus tax for it. If any one can answer these questions I will appreciate this.
    Thanks
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