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Acura TL 2009

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Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Any guess as to what size the wheels and tires will be on the '09 TL?

    If I were to guess, I'd say that SH-AWD will be an option, at least on the standard '09 TL. As far as displacement is concerned, the standard TL may have a premium fuel version of the 3.5, with, say, 290 hp, or a 300 hp version of the 3.7, while the "S" has a more highly tuned version of the 3.7 If the "S" comes standard with SH-AWD, it'll most likely have the 3.7.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    I guess I will continue the discussion anyway, since you are one of the people with no clue. I drove the 2006 TL which you claim to own. It has noticeable torque steer, and the professional car reviewers agree.

    I hope you never have to make a two gear downshift and mash the throttle to get by a semi on a two lane road, because you will be shocked, and you might end up road kill.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    If you live in Dallas area, let us meet. It won't be an episode of myth-busters, but pretty close. :)
  • kennyg8kennyg8 Member Posts: 225
    Robert, I guess you are missing 150mphclub's point. From his screen name you know immediately he has a lead foot and likes to race at break neck speed. Most, if not all, FWD cars with more than 250 hp will have plenty of torque steer to him. ;) But that is not the way most people drive. So, you should not argue with him something that is unique to him. :)
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Sorry to disappoint you, but I live just outside of Indianapolis, home of Indianapolis Motor Speedway (aka the brickyard), which is actually located in Speedway, not Indianapolis, AND O'Reily Race Park (formerly Indy Race Park), which is actually located in Clermont.

    I rarely exceed 100mph anymore, but I hate eating semi dust.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    I agree with kennyg8. Can torque steer be induced in a TL if one really tries to, or under certain extreme acceleration situations? Yes, probably. Is it a problem for the vast majority of drivers? No. For aggressive drivers? Rarely, or very rarely. How about for the tiny minority of drivers who habitually drive very or extremely aggressively? Maybe or probably, yes, depending to some extent on how sensitive one is to torque steer.

    I own a TL and have never experienced torque steer, nor have I ever felt the need to suddenly mash the accelerator to the floor. I think the example mph150club gave, of "having to" shift down two gears is avoidable through planning ahead, and that he exaggerates the torque steer effects of mashing the accelerator while the car is already going, say, 30-60 mph. I would say that anyone who habitually drives that aggressively should choose a RWD or AWD car.

    The TL suits most drivers just fine, and even most spirited drivers, but not every driver. Chances are the '09 TL, with SH-AWD as optional or standard, will address the torque steer issue, but will still not please everyone, since there will still be a minority of drivers who prefer a RWD car, for reasons that have been discussed at length in previous messages.

    I think we can all agree that every drive wheel configuration has tradeoffs. Even though my driving style would rarely, if ever, induce torque steer in a 250+ hp FWD car, my preference is for RWD for high powered cars. For this reason, I hope that Honda-Acura eventually follows the Nissan-Infiniti model, which would leave Honda with FWD/SH-AWD, and convert Acura to RWD, and offer a RWD based SH-AWD system as an option.
  • rich102rich102 Member Posts: 7
    There is no significant torque steer in this car at reasonable acceleration rates (driving in traffic and passing slow cars).
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    You can bet he isn't any more leadfooted than I am. I actually accelerate briskly going around a corner. And that is why I found it easy to challenge him.

    I also like accelerating mid-way thru a 20 mph ramp and my speed is generally 50 mph. The car actually rotates (not as much as my Accord, but no where close to taking of tangentially). Thats one thing I have loved about Hondas. These cars can actually rotate when pushed around corners while accelerating, on dry surface and when it is safe, of course.
  • ctlctl Member Posts: 129
    still not getting the point. driving fast (relative term there) is totally diff from trying accerlate fast, in letting the torque steer beast out.

    yeah u never floored it :)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Well, you missed the point, so let me highlight parts of my previous post that you clearly missed...

    "I actually accelerate briskly going around a corner. And that is why I found it easy to challenge him.

    I also like accelerating mid-way thru a 20 mph ramp and my speed is generally 50 mph."

    That is not just going fast.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    LOL
  • alexriedelalexriedel Member Posts: 3
    Ok, so to clear this up, torque steer is the effect you feel tugging on the steering wheel in any front wheel drive car when you accelerate with the wheels not perfectly aligned with the car.

    The physics for it are quite simple, look it up with Google if you like.

    The effect is not dependent on speed at all but on torque applied. So it usually is most pronounced when accelerating hard at *slow* speeds, like around the corner of an intersection form almost a standstill. Higher speeds usually prevent wild steering maneuvers and torque steering is less of a worry but still noticeable.

    Car makers can dampen the effect by counteracting the torque with the power steering motor (computer are involved here), shifting the weight balance more forward, and some other engineering tricks, like making the actual front half axles the same length. However, you cannot deny physics so the effect remains to some extent.

    How much it affects depends on how you drive. An old lady using a TL-S to get groceries won't notice much.
    If you are a civilized driver in town and on freeways it won't bother you.
    If you like to storm through twisty canyons on back roads you definitely will feel it.
    If you have never driven a front wheel car before and try the latter, you want to get out and walk home ;)

    Basically it exists, pure physics. How much it affects you is a completely personal issue.
  • 150mphclub150mphclub Member Posts: 316
    Thank you for once again backing me up on this issue. I don't really "storm through twisty canyons on back roads", but that's where I need to get past semi's in as short a stretch of pavement as possible.

    I really do intend to drop out of this "torque steer discussion" now, because nothing any one can say will convince these "love me love my Acura" people that their beloved cars do exhibit torque steer. I do think Acura is a fine car, but it does/did exhibit torque steer, at least thru the 2006 model year (the last model I drove).
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    Back in 89, I bought a brand new Chevy Z-24 with a 5-Speed Manual. My first brand new car :blush:
    Now, that car had torque steer!!! :surprise:

    Not sure how I kept that thing in one piece for the 5 years I had it. LOL
  • cmhcmh Member Posts: 13
    I thought that this forum was for discussion about the Acura TL, Concept Car, Future Vehicle, Sedan...

    Can we create a separate forum for Torque steer please? I visit this forum for info about the TL....
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    The best way to get a discussion back on track is to post an on-topic comment of your own rather than complain about others.

    So... got any new info about the upcoming TL?

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • cmhcmh Member Posts: 13
    "The best way to get a discussion back on track..."

    I am glad my post highlighted that the discussion was off topic and hopefully will bring it back to the original topic - regardless of whether I have any new info on the TL or not.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    The original topic was Torque Steer.
    The best way to gauge the level of torque steer is to compare to other fwd cars that we have experience with.
    Having one or two posts slightly outside of the forum's topic range is okay, as long as it's within the parameters of the original thread topic.

    Now, as Kirstie suggested, back to the topic at hand...
    Quite frankly, the TL's torque steer was one of the cons on my TL pro/con list.
    This may not be a deal breaker for some, but it is for others.
    It all comes down to the way we drive our cars, and for us, what matters most.

    My eyes are very much on the 09 TL and the rumored addition of SH-AWD and I may be one of the first in line for a 2010, if all rumors come to fruition.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    I thought you were satisfied with your G.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    I currently lease a 07 TLS 6 speed and are looking forward to the next generation model. This 09 model should add the following advancements in order to stay competetive in the market and to keep my business.

    All wheel drive
    300 pounds torque
    Ventilated seats
    Push start ignition
    Suspension at least as good as the TLS

    If their mission statement is to advance they should do so with this new TL. Its their best selling model. By the way the new Honda Accords look terrible but maybe it will grow on people.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    LOL, I am...
    I couldn't be happier, actually.

    But, I accept that fact that I have an extreme love for cars, and I know that in 3-4 years, I may have wandering eyes.
    I still love the look of the TL and truely hope the new design doesn't stray too far.
    As much as I love my G, all cars get old, build up miles and wear/tear and need to be replaced.

    All I'm saying is that I'll have my eyes on the new TL, whatever Infiniti does next, Lexus, BMW.... and the Nissan GT-R!!! :shades:
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Any guesses on what the "top of the line" TL is going to run us? If, in fact, it does have sh-awd, 300+ hp, adjustable suspension and all the other stuff you can currently get, my guess is around $43,000.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    If it starts to wonder in the mid 40K range, then its a no brainer for me- HELLO GS350.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    I estimate the new base TL which should be fully loaded to be around 35k and 38k with Nav. Any higher than these figures and I will be getting a 328 or 335 as they price out at 33k and 41k. BMW also has fairly flexible leasing options.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    I'd expect it to jump a couple K.
    I bought an 06 MDX, fully loaded.
    MSRP was 45K but I landed it for 39K.

    Than the new MDX came out and it's now going for 47K.
    There wasn't a lot of people reporting a $6,000 discount on the 07 MDX until the uproar calmed down and the dust settled.
    Fact is, the new 07 MDX has a good amount of little issues that have more than a few owners ticked off.

    If history repeats itself, the fully loaded 09 TL, with all of our hopes and dreams included, should be somewhere in the region of $40-$41,000.
    And again, once the dust settles, prices will begin to drop.

    As with all of Acura's first year releases, there will be bugs to iron out.
    I, for one, will not be interested in dropping 40,000 of my hard earned dollars on a first year Acura release.
    I'll wait for the "gotta have it" guinea pigs to work out the bugs and I'll reap the benefits a few years later. ;)
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    In Acura fashion, it won't "start" in mid 40s, probably will end up topping out in low 40s. You won't get much in a GS350 for that price.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    What kind of issues have come up with the MDX?
  • kennyg8kennyg8 Member Posts: 225
    The 09 TL, even if fully loaded with all the bells and whistles, would probably max out below 40k (about 38-39.5k) MSRP. Anything higher -- 40k is a MAGIC CUTOFF -- will be a disincentive because most current or potential TL owners would not be interested in that price range, as TL is only an entry lux car.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    Agreed.

    Acura is getting carried away with their pricing. Doesn't the TL use the same chassis as the 2008 Accord sedan? They start out at 20,360. Seems like a big markup for a 40,000 dollar TL.

    I wonder how well AWD will allow the TL to perform? I hope it handles better than the RL which has been described as wallowy.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    I will be surprised if Acura can price TL with SH-AWD for less than $40K. Acura doesn't do packages and options like others. As with TL-S, you can't get it without NAV, thats an additional $2200 right there.

    That said, if TL/SH-AWD delivers, there will be a market for it. It won't be the bread and butter model carrying sales. So, Acura will still need base models to be around $35-36K, about where they are right now.
  • kennyg8kennyg8 Member Posts: 225
    SH-AWD is already available in most of Acura's lineup, a la RL, MDX and RDX. Acura has already spent the R&D on this technology, and spreading it to the TL (or even the TSX) should not be a very costly item. I think a 1.5k to 2k markup is justifiable and acceptable to those buyers who appreciate or need AWD, like those living in the snowbelt.

    As with most cars, MSRP or something close to it for a substantially improved and refreshed model will probably stay for at least 6 months, after which it will drop, and depending on the market demand and competition, may even drop by as much as 10% come the 9th month. So, MSRP of 40k may translate to FMV of 36-37k by year end, which, in its full loaded configuration, the 09 TL will still remain competitive (price-wise) with other entry lux cars.

    Well, let's hope that Acura will put in more technology and gizmos in the 4th gen-09 model to make it very appealing, just like when the 3rd gen-04 model made its debut. I believe the 04 and 05 models were the best selling entry lux car.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    The manager at my local Acura dealer has told me that Acura is looking to enter the "Luxury" segment and is hoping to be in line with makers like Mercedes, Lexus, BMW, etc.

    This was his response when I was discussing current pricing, and the direction in which it appears to be going.

    Only time will tell, but if I had to guess, a base TL may come in under 40K, but the dream TL we're all talking about here will never come in that low.
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    What kind of issues have come up with the MDX?

    Go visit the MDX board!

    1382 of 1383 Re: MDX Issues [JBaumgart] by vaughn4 Sep 14, 2007 (4:27 pm)
    Bookmark | Reply
    Replying to: JBaumgart (Sep 14, 2007 12:43 pm)

    Good point! The downside to sub par ratings in Consumer Reports is that the resale value of our problem prone MDX's may take a hit. I am a Consumer Reports subscriber and will rate the problems I'm having on my 07 MDX accordingly.

    Acura better wake up and take care of these problems AND LISTEN TO THEIR CLIENTS!!! They are not listening!!! We are not talking a problem here and there, we are talking problems across the board. Very un Acura like. Is there any quality control there anymore???
  • rnmomrnmom Member Posts: 32
  • rnmomrnmom Member Posts: 32
    My current lease will expire Feb 08 does anyone know when Acura will change the body of this vehicle?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Since we have seen spy pics of what looks like a completed vehicle, Spring 2008 sounds more like it.
  • rnmomrnmom Member Posts: 32
    were can I view the spy pictures
  • ggesqggesq Member Posts: 701
    http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=703310

    http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=698294
  • scottm123scottm123 Member Posts: 1,501
    We've all seen the spy pics by now, but they're hard to go by.

    After seeing the new Accord, I'm a little worried about the size of the 09 TL.
    I hope it doesn't grow as much as the Accord has.
    The Accord is now in the "Large Sedan" category.
    The TL would lose a lot of what it has going for it with all that extra weight.
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    IMO, too much of a big deal is being made out of Accord's size. Sure it is bigger, but it is not THAT big. It is still a half foot shorter than "large" cars like Taurus and Impala, and is within an inch or two of ES350.

    That said, TL has traditionally been slightly smaller than Accord, and I won't be surprised if it continues to be.

    As for weight, Accord (V6) weighs about the same as current TL. And with additional features, refinements and power, the next TL is bound to gain weight. This is an industry-wide norm. CTS gained a whopping 400 lb with the redesign, up from 3600 lb to over 4000 lb. At almost 3700 lb, The new G37 is over 100 lb heavier than Acura TL Type-S. Unfortunately, that is where I expect the next TL to be.
  • billyperks1billyperks1 Member Posts: 151
    Speaking of the new accord, I saw a white one this morning in the Commuters Parking Lot and I have to say I like it.It was a V6 sporting the double chrome pipes that and an aggressive stance- I liked it.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    I have just located the weight distribution specs for the MT 08 TL.

    autos.yahoo.com/acura_tl_type_s_6_spd_mt-specs/?p=ext - 97k

    It lists 60/40 front to rear and 62/38 for the AT. If the 09 is similar in these ratios then the TL will not be handle as well as the 3 series even with SH-AWD. BMW has been perfecting the handling of their vehicles with a rear wheel drive layout since the 60's with the 2002 and others.

    Honda & Acura must create a better front to rear balance. Also the engine needs much more torque available in the 2000 3000 RPM range Get with the program Honda or get left in the dust!
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Also the engine needs much more torque available in the 2000 3000 RPM range Get with the program Honda or get left in the dust!

    Its not the engine. Drive the TL with 6MT and see if you have similar perception. The problem is the way Honda gears its automatic transmission. The "program" needs to be about proper transmission ratios (which means, Honda has to venture into 6AT arena with the same aggression that BMW and Lexus (IS/GS not ES) have done.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    dude, I drive an 07 TLS MT and it seems sluggish in that range. I bet the base TL auto is even weaker at low RPM. Wouldnt a DOHC help torque matters or maybe a clean diesel engine option? BMW offers 300 pounds of torque at 1400 RPM. That is massive but I wonder how reliable that will turn out to be. :lemon: ">

    Anyone?
  • robertsmxrobertsmx Member Posts: 5,525
    Acura TL Type-S delivers 90% of its peak torque at 2000 rpm. A DOHC isn't going to do any better than that.

    The new Accord Coupe/6MT seems to be using identical design to it (albeit slightly detuned), and with that combination, expect almost 0.67g around 2000 rpm. A lot of cars, especially front drivers, don't have that kind of thrust even at peak.

    Here is a link to TL-S dyno. Thats about as flat a torque curve as you'll see anywhere. And has the broadness factor too. Note that there isn't a whole lot of difference between peak torque and what it delivers at just 2000 rpm.

    Diesel will get torque, but less power and with reduced refinement.
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    your link gives this message
    Forbidden
    You don't have permission to access //article_files/686783/07vs04tl_6mt.gif on this server.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Apache/1.3.31 Server at sohc.vtec.net Port 80

    can you post this in some other format?

    diesel will seem more powerful, provide better gas mileage, and I have never heard of reduced refinement in a clean diesel. Where are you coming from with that line of logic?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Hmm, the gif displays for me. :confuse:
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    Ok, you have to be registered with the Temple of VTEC website then you can view it.

    You are right that torque curve is impressive.

    :)
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Really? I didn't think/know that I was! :blush:
  • jwaggonerjwaggoner Member Posts: 22
    Pat you are the host here, what is the ideal sports luxury car?
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