Acura TL 2009

smarty666 · March 2010

that is something I have always disliked about BMW, why pay all that extra money for the 3 and 5-series when you get so little front and rear room in almost every dimension? if I wanted little to no room I'd buy a sport coupe. Give me a Acura or Audi over BMW any day of the week

sweendogy · March 2010

jtla -- maxima is fwd-

g37 has 330 hp and 280 torque- plus its atleast 10 grand cheaper-try getting a new 35k 335i -- and if you want to fully option them out it the spead will widen.

bmw has a 328 for a reason- lexus has the IS250 for a reason- audi has the 2,0 A4..-even the TL has a baby accord engine, like i said its a good idea-- lots of people are down on the G for being a gas guzzler-- this would be the option for people to get into an infiniti and possibly move up in models as they age.

and for the person who posted the 4 door firepower article from R&T the TL was once again 4th out of 4. does it ever finish in the middle of the pack?? maybe they should start testing the TL vs its real comp-- buick. Merk, and lexus ES -- you can also put a Saab in the group and i'm sure the TL will move up a notch or 2.

jtla · March 2010

graphicguy, maybe my posts came across as I was against the idea of G25. Well, I like it. In fact, I agree with everything you said. However, the only point I was trying to make is that Infiniti/Nissan has to do a thorough market research and position/packaging the upcoming G25 in the right niche so as to attract TSX, 328i, A4, or even Ragal :surprise: buyers without undermining sales of its own -- or as little as possible. (Thus, don't hold your breath for the turbo engine.)

As to "I don't see how the Benz competes with them, as it falls down in just about every category you'd like to compare against the G or the TL." The answer is simple: the tri-spoke star on the hood.

jtla · March 2010

maxima is fwd-

g37 has 330 hp and 280 torque- plus its at least 10 grand cheaper-try getting a new 35k 335i -- and if you want to fully option them out it the spread will widen.

sweendogy, you are missing my points. It is a joke that Nissan markets the Maxima 4-door sport sedan yet equips it with FWD and CVT. A RWD G25, hopefully with available 6MT, will rightfully challenge that title and surely appeal to Maxima buyers.

BMWs twin-turbo 335i produces 300 hp and 300 lb-ft torque. I would rather match it in torque (the turbo-charged G25, if available) than beat it in hp (the G37) any day.

I am with you on how a baby G would benefit Infiniti. I would also be interested to see a comparison test on TL, ES, La Crosse. (The April issue of MotorTrend compared ES and La Crosse.)

smarty666 · March 2010

Agree with you completely about the Maxima! I have a 2010 SV so I should know. Nissan did screw up, not with the car itself, but as you said, the marketing of it as a 4-dr sports sedan, which it is not The CVT and the FWD combo makes the car not as sporty in feel and drive, despite what the sporty/aggressive body style might indicate. You don't know how many times at lights people look at my car, think it is a sports car and try to race me. Luckily 290HP is more than enough to keep up but it isn't a sports sedan. It drives and rides more like a Altima or Accord then it does a 3-series or G37! Hopefully at some point, Nissan will stop that marketing campaign. I don't hold out much hope though.

They really need to start marketing it as a aggressive upscale sedan rather than 4-dr sport; they would have to dump a manual and RWD into it to make it a sports sedan, but then how would it be any different from a G37 or G25 (when it comes out)? it wouldn't so they'll have to leave it the way they got it and just get their marketing department in line!

sweendogy · March 2010

Max is no sportscar i agree- they brought back the old 4DSC as a marketing tool. That being said- in standard form the TL and MAX are pretty close. Would a G25 bite into Max sales prob right but I think the altima is the big reason the MAx is no longer the stud it once was.

and I also agree on your torque comment But your not getting my point when it comes down to the mighty dollar i would rather save 10 grand (or more) and get the G for 3/4ths the price and 9/10 the performance. I would bet the twin turbo G25 will not make it stateside- seems like infiniti would go smaller engine to get better mandated MPG improvements.

and let me end with a snapshot

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2009/04/2010_Buick_Allure_Jalopni- k-topshot2.jpg

jtla · March 2010

If the La Crosse drives as sharp as it looks, it will be very competitive with TL FWD, Lexus ES, MB C300, and (gulp) Ford Taurus.

graphicguy · March 2010

jtla...we're violently agreeing.

I'm assuming that the G25 will be the same as the G37, just with a smaller motor. I think it will steal some sales from the G37. Matter of fact, it will probably steal even more sales from the 3.5 Altima. You'd get a better warranty than the Nissan. Plus, I'm going to assume they're both going to be similarly priced. I also agree that Infiniti won't be including the turbo motor for the exact reason you stated. It will end up being a cheaper version of the G37 with almost the same performance.

Regarding the trade rags, if I followed their advice, I'd be driving a Malibu. We all buy the cars that best suit our needs....not the ones who do well on a test track. Interesting note, if I was in the market for a $50K car (not a $40K car, like the TL SH AWD is, which I purchased well under $40K), I'd be looking very closely at an S4, or a 335i xDrive, too. You start really loading up a G37x-s, you're getting into that above $45K range, too. So, not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

What I'd rather have seen is a comparison between a 535i xDrive loaded up, or an Audi A6 quatro loaded up, and see where we end up compared to a TL SH AWD, particularly when you throw in price discrepancies.

Again, the G and the TL are both nice cars that compete well in their given segments. It's clear to me that the G 3x is aiming squarely for the BMW 3. When Acura dropped the 3.5L into the TSX, that's their entry against the BMW 328i and the Audi A4.

The TL is pretty much attempting to carve out its own segment.....right between the Infiniti G and M......or between the BMW 3 and 5.

Acura has always gone their own way. People complained when their styling was too conservative (me being one of them). Now that they've become aggressive in their styling, some people are complaining about that. I happen to like it. But, if one thing's for certain, you can't please all the people all the time.

Like those who lean towards the G, just like those of us who lean towards Acura, what we know we're getting are great performing machines, that are built well, which will last a very long time with minimal fuss. The rest is just a matter of personal wants and tastes.

As you point out, the only thing I can see as being a selling point for the Benz C class is the hood ornament. I guess that has some worth for some people.

smarty666 · March 2010

Acura has always gone their own way. People complained when their styling was too conservative (me being one of them). Now that they've become aggressive in their styling, some people are complaining about that. I happen to like it. But, if one thing's for certain, you can't please all the people all the time

This is very true! At first, in both pictures and when seeing the new TL and other Acura models in person, I could not stand the new corporate snow plow grill they put on the Acura models. Over time though, I have warmed up to it a little bit and if you get the right exterior color it does not look too bad. But, I still think the grill on the TL, ZDX, and RL is too big/overwhelming and massive and takes a little bit away from the front end. I actually like the size and look of the grill on the TSX and MDX and could live with it in that shape and size. On the TSX and MDX the corporate shield grill looks more proportional to the vehicles size and doesn't overwhelm you when looking at it like it does on the TL and ZDX! I'm not saying Acura has to get rid of the grill completely on the TL but I think they should just tone it down in size a little bit so that it is not so overwhelming and the complete focus when looking at the front end! I also would like them to smooth out the rear end a tiny bit so it doesn't look so bloated and big like the previous generation Maxima did.

I absolutely love the interior of the new TL though and the side profile of the car is very sleek and sexy looking! Just my two cents, still a great luxury car for the money though!

proe · March 2010

How could the 4th finished car be the second quickest car behind S4 and it out stops S4, 335i and G37s with smallest rotors of the bunch :confuse:

And, if you look at performance aspect of the car, it is on par with BMW and better than Infiniti except only in the 0-60 and to 1/4 mile time.

So, with those numbers, you tell me if TL is still a 4th place car or 2nd place car.

Then, if you throw in the price, reliability and maintenance cost advantage, it is 1st place car in my book

rlonn1 · March 2010

As I left home with my 2010 TL Tech, SH-AWD, And went On Vacation, I arrived in Spokane at Enterprise car rental.. All they had was a 2009 Chevy Impala... OK, Full size car, $220 for an entire week, but after 850 Miles of painstaking driving, I was so glad to get back home to the Acura! I mean this Impala, was so uncomfortable it was just darn awful and it was hard to drive.. I guess this must be how GM stayed in Business with the Rental Car business, Make a car to last 35K and then hope for the best. Just trying to keep the temperature in the car at 70 was a challenge in itself! Mine had 33K on it, and it had a lot of things broken on the car, but heck, it did get 28 MPG!

jtla · March 2010

rlonn1, no offense, but how come your posts are always in bold? :confuse: Is it something wrong with the setting in your computer, or is it your habit to talk in loud voice? Please do everyone a favor and use the normal font.

sweendogy · March 2010

And, if you look at performance aspect of the car, it is on par with BMW and better than Infiniti except only in the 0-60 and to 1/4 mile time.

we are talking about the TL correct?? its a number 4 car on this list of 4 because its not a drivers car- but against its real comp (the lexus ES, buick, Saab, Ford) its a really good car. For what people consider sports cars go to your nearest track and see what they run.- you'd be hard pressed to find a modern acura. (prob see some cool integra GS-R's and TYPE Rs, maybe an NSX)--

Would love to know how many new TL -AWD are being sold-- and the % that are manuals. Are people shopping the TL vs BMW/infinti--? I would bet most of the TL sales are aged 45 and over -and the bulk of the TL's come in standard accord form-- FWD.

rlonn1 · March 2010

For me it is easier to read, but I can go back to normal font, makes no difference to me.

graphicguy · March 2010

proe....I think anyone that focuses on trace work, like the trade rags do, probably would wear out any mass produced car in fairly short order. I know a lot of the trades have commented on how the darling of the sports sedan ratings....the 335i, have also found that there are some issues with the turbos and how the BMWs revert to "limp" mode while testing.

They still love the car, though.

Fact is, living with a car over a long period of time isn't the focus of most of these comparisons.

Bottom line, the TL is fast...especially in SH AWD guise. Is it the fastest? No. But, few buy a car strictly to do stoplight to stoplight type of driving. If I were one of those types (and I have been in the distant past), I'd be in a 'vette, a Mustang, or a Camaro.

Owners know how they handle, which is among the best sports sedans on the market (SH AWD). Comfort....build....features....quality of materials....all are also part of the package (again, among the best).

Again, I think the TL is more of a competitor to the 5 series, the Infiniti M, etc.

R&T, C&D, or any of the other rags have ever influenced what I buy. Interesting to read, but I don't buy cars based on their opinions. That's up to me, and me alone.

proe · March 2010

graphicguy,
R&T, C&D, or any of the other rags have ever influenced what I buy. Interesting to read, but I don't buy cars based on their opinions. That's up to me, and me alone.
Same here. I dont buy any car solely based on what they say. It surely is nice to know that the car I bought gets high marks. It it does not, so what, as long as it gets me from point A to point B safely.

BTW, saw a 2009 yellow Gallardo LP560-4 broken down on side of the road around Del Mar in San Diego yesterday.

graphicguy · March 2010

Oooooohhhhh....a Gallardo....only seen pictures, never in person. I can't imagine what a service bill on a Gallardo would be. :sick:

Being a former autox-er, and a guy who did some bracket racing many years ago, I can tell you the cars that do best on a track aren't ones I'd like to drive on a day-to-day basis. If your goal is to win the stoplight wars, you're going to want something that has as much torque off the line as you can get (ordinarily a V8). That's why I recommend the Mustangs, Camaros, etc. They won't be cars you'd like to take on a long trip, though.

I've never known anyone who's been happy buying a car based solely on a trade rag review. Those places have a car for a few hours, maybe a few days. Living with a car for 3-4-5, even 8-9 years, having that trade rag review isn't going to tell you how much you'll enjoy the car down the road.

These are all very sophisticated machines, designed to go 150K miles (and beyond). We expect them to hold up well in that time....and to be relatively trouble free (aside from routine maintenance). Honda and Acura excel at that. Personally, I think Honda/Acura make some of the most sophisticated drivetrains currently on the road. You can beat them senseless, and they just keep coming back for more. In the process, they ride, handle well, built with high quality materials, and bolted together extremely well. They're fast, to boot. They don't do one thing the best. They do everything well, however.

I know you ask the folks who have Audis or BMWs (of which I've had a couple), most of them will tell you that while the warranty is still in effect, they're great. Past that, dig deep into your wallet.

Even the Infiniti, as I mentioned before, I liked it a lot. But, talking to their service people, 30K, 60K, etc mile routines are costly (over $1,000). Plus, they require you to get simple things like oil changes every 3,500 miles, for anything except the gentlest of driving. If there was one thing that steered me to the Acura over the Infiniti, it was the transmission. Being a 7 speed, it seemed to be hunting constantly for the right cog. The other part which steered me clear of the G were the seats. To get the handling I wanted, and the handling that closely matched the TL SH AWD, I had to go with the "s" package for the G37x. The seats were uncomfortable for me (I'm 5'10", ~175 lbs....so not a big person), and it rode HARD in comparison.

Again, not saying the G is a bad car. It's a very good car. For me, it didn't quite "fit the bill" as well as the TL SH AWD.

Whichever you choose, for whatever the reason(s), these are all very good performing cars. Said it before, there are no "bad choices" between the two.

billyperks2 · March 2010

Because people 45 and older can afford the TL AWD.I am still in my thirties and I bought one because I make enough. ACURA specifically said so in their brochure that they are targeting household that makes 150K or more for this car.

sweendogy · March 2010

congrats at being in your 30's and able to afford an older mans car-- good stuff- nice that you included the last line for no real reason what so ever- make sure you put some money into your 401k and not just your lease payments.

graphicguy · March 2010

sween.....gotta say, taking pot shots, for no apparent good reason, doesn't serve you well. Don't know your age. And, it doesn't matter. You'll find out soon enough that the prestige of the car doesn't define the prestige of the man.

I'm trying to figure out why exactly you're here. You don't appreciate Acuras, or at least the TL. I'm OK with that.

It befuddles me what you do like.....maybe Cobalts with big spoilers on them? You ever do any track time (and not the stoplight to stoplight variety)? Any "autox"? Ever participate in any rallies? Ever do a teardown of a small block, and rebuild it to run in the 12s? Do you even know what any of that means?

Or, do you think that dark tinted windows makes your car handle better? Maybe some chrome spinner wheels that makes your car go faster?

You'll appreciate your 401K comment soon enough (sooner than you realize).

Chasboy · March 2010

Gotta agree with Graphicguy, Billy and Proe regarding performance and living with the TL on a daily basis. We drove every competing car listed in the various magazine comparo's. My wife refused to drive the Infiniti because she thinks it's ugly. We were going to buy another Bimmer if the other brands showed no attributes to make us feel otherwise. The interior of the IS250 was miniscule, the Merc C300 small, the A4 was nothing to be excited about for the inflated price, the ES350 to soft for 61 year old 'hipsters' like ourselves, and the Bimmer, tho' improved, was pricey, still too small and the interior was boring. BOTH of us enjoyed the attributes of our '02 325 and drove it like a Bimmer should be driven.
We then drove the Acura AWD, and it blew everything else out of the water, AND gave us the room of a 5 series for a price less than the 3 series. I get excited, even after 10k miles, each time I drive it.

As for the pot shots, I allowed myself to react without thinking clearly on a related thread and caused some angst that was inappropriate to this type of discourse and lost a forum friend because of it. I regret those actions. I suggest that demeaning remarks of any kind should not make their way to our keyboards.

btw, a good friend of mine who is retiring in a few months has 4 cars...just of his own, all brand new. A Hummer H3, a Mustang KR, Challenger Hemi RT, and a full boat Camaro. All black. He is selling the Challenger and Camaro. Sure wish I had a garage...with 4 bays. (I would love to have my RV at home and covered where she belongs)

rlonn1 · March 2010

Chasboy, OH!!! You are so Right On!! You nearly took the words right out of my mouth... I only have 725 Miles on my TL-SHAWD, but I agree with the part about every time you get in the car!!! If you Do Not own this car or have never driven one, and all you have in ones defense is the style of the car, one should ask, why bother being her on this site??
Quick Question, when you go from CD or XM, or HDD to the AM-FM radio, is the audio level nearly the same, or Like Mine, the audio drops a lot in volume? For the XM-HD the audio is comfortably set at around 8, but on AM-FM I have to crank it up to 14-15..

rlonn1 · March 2010

Looks like another San Diego person on this site with a SH-AWD TL, Hello from East County and the fun roads of the Back Country to drive.. Your comment about the press and how they report cars is valid! Yesterday Consumer Report came out with its top 4 family sedans, and I was surprised to see that MPG, safety was not even a consideration, but rather VSA was,,, The had VW, Chevy, Haundi and I don't recall the other one... I just scratched my head since a vehicle to be a top 4 pick must take into account a LOT of different aspects of the car...

Back in 2004 I was almost going to pull the string on a Nissan Murano, went to the blog and it was hundreds of pages of ISSUES with the SUV in particular the CVS transmission, plus over 13 TSA.. I like the styling of the Murano..

I then went over to check out the Honda Pilot on its blog... No less then 3 pages of comments and most were related to the tires and stiff ride! But no TSA and no real complaints. In the end I purchased the Pilot and not only was the ride fine, I just went to Costco for a new set of tires at 79K, comments were that I would only get 40K... I loves the Pilot, Zero Problems, and never looked back at Nissan.. I almost went after the Maxima but after a test drive and annoying Torque Steer, got turned off fast..

My wife is happy with her 2009 TSX, I love my 2010 TL, the Pilot is going to become my 3rd car for weekend use-- Going to the movies where the car will sit for hours, home depot and bringing home treasures from Kolbys Swap Meet and when family visits from out of town... My 1995, 148K Nissan Quest is being sold this week...

Cars become a piece of you after sharing time for thousands of miles.. I am confident that both Acura will serve my wife and I well and into retirement in 4 or 5 years...

Have a great day.... Rain on the way for San Diego, darn, just cleaned the cars!

billyperks2 · March 2010

I notice that too- maybe its the reception.I listen mostly to the HDD, too much commercial and chit chatter on the radio stations (including satellite radio).

graphicguy · March 2010

rlonn...there's a setting in "audio" that allows for it compensate for different noise levels in the car. I have mine set to "off" as it bugs me. If I want it louder (or softer), I'll turn the vol up or down.

There is a discrepancy in volume levels though. I find DVD-Audio disks to play louder than regular CDs. Just like the volume levels on XM/AM/FM to be different.

For example, there are some DVD Audio disks (5.1 surround sound) that I can't play at anything above "16". There are some XM stations that I'll crank it up to "20". HDD is pretty consistent. I'm still loading my hard drive. It holds a whole lot.

BTW, if you haven't done so already, also go into the "audio settings" and choose "Dolby PL II" to get simulated surround from your stereo sources (like CDs, XM, terrestrial radio, HDD).

graphicguy · March 2010

Chas....I don't have any problems with someone who says "hey, I don't like the TL's styling". Different stroke/different folks, and all of that.

But, at least have some cred when it comes down to trying to compare cars. If someone has no idea or experience with any given car, or how a car performs....well, as the saying goes, "better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

billyperks2 · March 2010

I have not had a chance to buy DVD-A, there is one that came with the car that sounds pretty awesome- the music criteria is not my style though.I will try to find some time over this holiday weekend to pick up a Bob Marley DVD-A that Best Buy has to offer. Other than the one that came with the car, is the DVD-A quality really worlds apart from the regular CD?
I have so many CD'S to load up I am not even a third through my selection and I have owned the car approaching eight months now. I bought a ton of CD'S when I was in college and living the bachelor life after college.

proe · March 2010

I wish I am driving TL SH WAD now, but I can still imagine my 2002 Honda Accord with 160,000 miles can run with it :P

I dont like Nissan as I blew the transmission after, I think, 100,000 miles.

Across the family, we have 4 Honda Accord. Sold 1996 Accord couple years ago, 2002, 2007 and 2009 Accord.

None of them ever gives us any problem including my poor Accord that has been abused by me from time to time.

Never understand how could anyone attach to his car(s) until past 2 years after driving it for 6 years. That is one reason why I will try to drive it for another 2 years or just keep driving it until either the transmission or engine starts to give me problems. At the current rate, I think I get a very good shot to put 300,000 miles on it. Keep my fingers cross

sweendogy · March 2010

graPHICSGUY,

The original reason I started reading the TL blog was to see what owners thought of the car- but in doing my own research about the car and comparing it to its peers I was taken back by how new TL owners could love such a rig. In standard form its a large accord-- a good car but no better then a V6 accord plus extra lbs and thousands of extra dollars for a front drive- 5 speed auto-. AWD version huge upgrade-- but again I ask how many are they selling?? whos buying them? -- how many are 6speeds? Acura was last to the market with this new TL and it still comes with a 5 speed auto.
That being said I wish all owners of the TL a safe trip on the local turnpikes.

your questions, funny and entertaining but a bit of a stretch - one answer YES Lime rock CT - did a advanced driving school with track time -- you should try it -- while your there watch some of the club racing events - good time

graphicguy · March 2010

billy,,,proe,

DVD-A is essentially a "hi-rez" format that never caught on....just like SACD. The TL tech package can read and play those disks, in addition to DTS surround sound disks. They are usually found on "audiophile" sites (my favorite is acousticsounds.com).

I am a big fan of the format. I actually have some DVD-A and DTS disks that are out of print. The best one I've heard is "Yes"-Roundabout. It's out of print (and sells for big $ on the used market). But, there are others still in print. If you get a chance, pick a few up to hear the difference. They're pretty amazing.

proe...quick question. Assuming from your "name", you're an engineer who's a Pro/Engineer expert?

mocozeke · March 2010

My 2003 just passed 133,000 miles. I have loved it since the day I bought it. I dd not like the 2004 redesign or the 2009 redesign. When I see the back of one, the only thng I think of is "have a nice day" de to the labels on each side, the logo in the middle and the big smiling trunk. [front smiles too] However, I may look past the exterior. I had not wanted to even go for a test drive due to the outside. I test drive ES and that stunk, test drove the Genesis (I like it, wife did not), looked at used A6 and E350 and have not found anything as nice as my old TL. Did anybodyown th 2003 and how does 2010 compare to that? Thanx

proe · March 2010

Graphicguy,
I used to use Pro Engineer to design fairing for HPV, Human Power Vehicle, as my senior project and create 2D cable drawings using Proe when I worked part time at Palomar Technologies, and worked part time at PTC for couple months testing software back in my college days about 10 years back.

Ah, creating 2D drawings using surfacing was so much "fun" to say the least.........

Well, I would not called myself an export back then

Good old days...........

graphicguy · March 2010

mocozeke....I had an '04 TL, and currently have a 2010 TL SH AWD. The '04 was the 3rd generation. The '03 was the 2nd generation.

Pretty big differences between those and the current 4th generation. Bigger motors, more HP, better interiors, better suspension, etc. They all employ double wishbone suspension (pioneered by Honda) and multi-link rear. Most bigger sports sedans use the multi-link rear in their larger offerings.

Performance, give or take (SH AWD),

5-speed automatic..
0-60=5.5 secs

6-speed manual
0-60=5.2 secs

Both will run the 1/4 mile in the mid 13s.

Other upgrades....fluid filled engine mounts. Upgraded brakes with cooling ducts (SH AWD).

Don't know how much you know about Acura's SH AWD. But, in essence, it is capable of shifting torque, not only front to back (as most AWD systems do). But, it can also transfer torque side to side, too.

In short, it handles worlds better than my former '04 TL. It's a bunch faster, too.

Those are the highlights. In order to understand how they feel, you really should test drive one. It's very "tossable", and inspires confidence, regardless of road or its condition. Going into corners, at speed, instead of swinging out it's tail, or understeering, it remains flat. It also bites down in corners as it shifts torque front to back and side to side. It's extremely hard to upset it (short of the laws of physics).

Every tech feature you can think of comes standard in the tech package on either the base or SH AWD version. Keyless entry, pushbutton start/stop, probably the best OEM stereo I've heard in any car, regardless of price. Auto climate control. Blue Tooth phone. Nav with weather and traffic guides. Very, very nice sport seats (SH AWD).

If you live in a climate that is wet, or gets snow, I'd probably stay away from the HPT tire option. Even with SH AWD, those wheels/tires are not good in wet/snow. Plus, they make the ride border on harsh. The standard wheels/tires to a good all around job.

Hope that helps.

graphicguy · March 2010

proe, it's been awhile, but in the past, I've used SolidWorks when I had a hand in doing some industrial design work. I liked that package.

Most of what I've had experience in has been in the 2D world, though.

I've always been curious about PTC. Their sales people were always over bearing. Based on that alone, I never recommended using Pro/E.

Chasboy · March 2010

Stereo: It is great, but I hate to admit it, but I think the unit in my Honda Element is a tad better! :confuse: maybe it has to do with all the "reverb room' in it, but the sub woofer has more 'boom' than the one in the TL. I haven't noticed much difference in the sound level when changing modes, but I listen to AM most of the time, so don't go by me.

sween, you could not be more wrong about the base TL. Honda has done a great job separating their lines, and the TL does not have a 'Honda equivalent'' as the ES 350 is to the Camry. The TSX is based on the European Accord, but that is as close as it gets.
Statistics, real or imagined do not cause one to love a car, living with it does.

graphicguy · March 2010

The Lime Rock facility that "sween" referred to runs "open wheel" cars in their "race" courses. Lot different than any car you drive on the street.

Setting a car up for track, as in auto-cross events or bracket racing (straight 1/4 mile runs) is quite a bit different than finding a good handling car on the street.

Comparing a TL to the ES350, or any type of cars of that ilk, I've ever driven means that someone hasn't really driven the TL. Even the TSX, the previous RSX, or even any of the "S-type" Acura versions (all of which were FWD (which is something difficult to autox) won't tell you very much about how it performs on the street.

Even great FWD handling cars (like the Mazdaspeed 3) will not be able to mimic what the TL can do. Given that the TL (SH AWD) is so much bigger and heavier, makes it even more amazing.

Cars of this ilk, like the BMW xDrives & Audi Quattros, along with the TL SH AWD are amazing vehicles. But, those who like the ride/handling of a Lexus ES aren't going to like any of the afore mentioned models. They all handle much better, but they all ride much firmer, too (not harsh, but firmer).

To each their own, though.

The weather's broken here. It was a sunny, crisp day yesterday. So, I took the long way around while running errands last night. Hit some scenic twisty roads. I know I've only had my TL for a little less than a month. But, it's hard to upset it. Matter of fact, regardless of how "hot" I went into a corner, it would just "bite" and hold its line.

Given the same roads, an ES would fall all over itself, even if you could gain any feedback through the steering wheel. NO doubt I would have put an ES in the bushes doing the same type of driving on the same roads.

greenlimes · March 2010

Just picked up a beautiful 2010 base TL in Basque Red. The car looks great but I can't stand the way my Pennsylvania license plate (yellow, white, blue) looks in the back, and the bolts holding it on look terrible. Does anyone know of a nice license plate frame in a metal similar the the brushed metal on the rest of the car?

Thanks!

sweendogy · March 2010

as "Graphics" guy mentioned Lime Rock does run "open wheel" cars on the "race" track-- but what he failed to mention they also have "club" events and an "auto" cross course. In this setup normal cars-- BMW's, Minis, Audis and others can join in the fun and put the street legal cars to the test.

Standard TL = Lexus ES-- both are based on Accord/Camry- both FWD, both auto, both heavy, both V6- same class, same price range- acura is clearly targeting the ES with this TL-

I would bet if you asked an acura dealer he would say he misses the OLD TL and by the looks of the sales data on wiki the public agrees.
sales:
2006 71,348
2007 58,545
2008 48,766
2009 33,620 (new model)

(i'm sure you could add another 10k cars if the economy was better -- but numbers tell the story)

again the AWD is a "huge" step up - i'm sure it "bits" in the corners-- but how many of the 33k plus TL's sold came in AWD form-? """""""""""""" """ "" '" "" "

this company needs a redbull quick-- the zdx-- what are they doing

graphicguy · March 2010

EVERYBODY...every model (save for Suzuki, Hyundai/Kia, Subaru) lost their [non-permissible content removed] in 2009. Any brand/model who introduced a new (or totally revamped model) did so in an economic climate that was poor.

BMW was down. Infiniti was down. Audi was down. In short, 2009 was bad for the car business in general.

We hope (they hope) that things are revived for 2010. But, nobody who makes cars is having a heyday....except for a few peripheral brands (or those which are heavily discounted).

No reflection on some worthwhile efforts (like the TL). The economy killed most of them.

Sween....Limerock runs Mazda RX 8s, Mazdaspeed 3s, etc for their basic driving courses (Barber). So, which one did you participate in? Open wheel? Or basic driving? I used to own an RX8 by the way. Did you drive one of those? Which course did you take? Have you ever driven a TL?

sweendogy · March 2010

Graphics guy-- i read the papers- thats why i mentioned the economy.. but would they have sold 2x ?

I did a skipbarber 2 day HP program- pretty cool - drove a 911 and a cayman - plus a 3 series. The basic has the mazda products. you should check it out if your in the area or near one of these programs-

TL- i have driven it-- not in AWD form - a coworker and I traded for a weekend. really cool technology- lots going on on the dash - good power. Nice safe car. Not a hint of sport in standard form- like the ES. congrats on the new rig-- take it easy on the twists.

smarty666 · March 2010

Lets just say I'm glad I got my 2008 TL when I did. There are things I like and dislike with the new TL but one thing I am a bit annoyed with Acura is, and they are not alone in this of course, but how they cheapened out on a couple of materials and how much more plastic had been added to the interior compared to the 3rd Gen.

One glaring example is this, the new TL's have cheap plastic imitation aluminum trim on the center consoles and doors. It looks okay from a distance but if you feel it you go, damn man! My TL has ACTUAL metal trim on the center console and doors of the car. You would not believe how cold it gets to touch in the winter months.

Now again, Acura is not alone in this. I have seen Lexus and BMW cut a few material corners as well among other companies. Its a damn shame the car manufactures keeping raising the prices every year but put cheaper more plastic material into the cars!

graphicguy · April 2010

sween....i used to spend quite a bit of time up at Mid-Ohio. Lots of Porsches. My RX8 was a great handler. Not in the 911 range, but fun nevertheless.

The TL and the TL SH AWD really are like two different cars. The base TL is a good car. Quick, nicely built, more luxury than sport. When you get a chance, test drive a TL SH AWD. It's a totally different drive.

graphicguy · April 2010

smarty.....my TL has aluminum trim. I know the trim in my 3rd gen TL (even the leather) wasn't nearly as nice as my current one.

sweendogy · April 2010

rx8 o boy-- you wonder if mazda had to do it again would they??- underpowered - unreliable, overpriced, never sold- sorry for the same price you can get a WRX, or a base 370z.. just to name a couple-
ROTARY = slow, terrible MPGS, and impossible to service. But it is a looker.
i hope you got the rx8 with the manual because the auto produces what 200 hp??
(didnt they have an a problem with false HP claims at one point)

please tell me you got the TL in 6 speed?

I

smarty666 · April 2010

nah, I disagree on most of that; there is much more plastic materials in the cabin now that the 3rd Gen didn't not have! the metal trim on the doors in not actual metal, its imitation! I didn't notice any difference in the quality of the leather between the 3rd and 4th Generation; in fact the base TL in the 4th isn't even perforated which is a downgrade from from the base 3rd since it came standard with perforated; I can imagine the wrinkles/cracks that non-perforated base leather will be like after only a few years! I don't understand why you have to get the tech package and spend thousands of extra dollars for a nav system to get perforated leather? just boggles the mind! also, you have to get the tech package now to get the ELS surround sound; that came standard with the base without having to get the nav system! I don't know why Acura had to do that. Now they made the nav package a lot more expensive by including things with it that before came standard.

graphicguy · April 2010

RX8 was a 6 speed manual....237HP. Rotaries are a little bit of a different animal. Very high revers (9K red line). Very few moving parts. Very light. 1.3L motor making 237 HP is amazing. A truly amazing handling car.

And yes, they expected the RX8 to come in at about 250HP. Before they hit the dealerships, they revised the HP ratings downward to 237.

A little care had to be taken with them. They use a little oil by design....about a quart every 1,000,1,500 miles. Their claim to fame was they are light with that high reving rotary. That makes for a terrific handling car.

MPG for a sports car is about average. But, with such a small power plant, some assumed it would get economy car MPG. Reving it to redline (which is hard to resist) doesn't make for good MPG, though.

Unfortunately, the auto company meltdown has seemed to have stalled any further development of the RENESIS rotary. I hope Mazda keeps it alive. It is, and always has been, very unique and fun to drive.

BTW....just curious, what do you drive now? Have you driven any of these cars we've mentioned here? RX8? TL SH AWD?

IF HP is "your thing" then why not look at something like a Camaro or a Mustang? Those will give you that "stoplight to stoplight" performance you seem to like. They'll both save you a couple of bucks to buy, too. They aren't as sophisticated, nor refined, but they'll fit what you're looking for.

Mitsu EVO (which I've never driven) or WRX (which I have test driven a little over a year ago) will be crude by comparison. They're geared more to the "big rear wing spoiler" set. But, if you're into that, or do a lot of autox-ing, those might be a possibility, too.

graphicguy · April 2010

smarty.....Don't know which TL you have. Base? I think the base model without tech comes with fake wood in the interior.....not the aluminum trim in the tech models.

TLs have always been different when it comes to options. You either get the tech model, which has all the goodies. Or, you get the base without tech, which is still well equipped, but doesn't come with the ELS sterero, nor the Nav.

But, you compare the models it competes with, say BMW for example, where their base models don't even come with leather, but vinyl interiors (they call it leatherette).

Having had both the 3G and now the 4G, I can say that in every parameter, performance, quality of materials and build, features, etc. the 4G is better across the board.

sweendogy · April 2010

I drive an 07 g35x- bot new and has just 20k miles - great in the snow- fast and has all the options one could want for my new england commute. my only complaint is Mpgs and that fact that INFINITI never has offered a manual with the AWD - which i think is a huge oversight but I could not justify paying an extra 10k for a 335xi 6speed with all the options i have on the G. I like the fact the the infiniti is has RWD bias-which i feel is what is important when dealing with a sports sedan- I also like that they keep upgrading the car every 2 years- (more HP, better trans, touch screen nav, to name a few) As i mentioned before i have never driven the AWD TL, but did drive the regular TL-- i cant imagine the SHAWDTL would be much different ride- (unless on a twisty road going to fast - or your in one with a 6sp, how many of those were sold??) Would love to hear a review or thoughts from an owner of a 6 speed TL--

rx-8- nope- never- no interest.

HP - not my thing-nor is going from stoplight to stoplight in a rush.
- but I do think its important if your going to drop 40k -

I like the way you use "quotes" to throw "digs"-- its pretty "amusing." nice day today and i need to go outside to wash the spoiler and rims.

graphicguy · April 2010

sween...no dings. Just trying to figure out what it is you want.

Infinitis are nice cars. I almost bought a g37x(s) sedan. Didn't like the automatic tranny in it. It hunted for the right gear way too much. And, the sport seats were uncomfortable. Plus, I could have bought one cheaper than the TL SH AWD. Test drove several. One coupe x(s). One sedan x(s). And, one vert.

In the end, I liked the TL SH AWD better. I would never ding anyone for the car they choose, nor their age, nor their income bracket, etc.

Bottom line, the most hotly contested segment in the auto world is the sports sedan area. You've got Acura, Audi, BMW, Cadillac, Infiniti, and from what some of you are saying, Buick is throwing their hat into that ring, too....all jousting for the same piece of that pie. There's not a bad car among them. Although, I can't speak to the Buicks, as I've not driven the LaCrosse. I don't think anyone has driven the Regal yet (except for maybe the trade rags).

A friend of mine traded his wife's '07 G35x for a Ford Taurus SHO. That's not a trade I would have made. But, he's very pleased with his SHO. Plus, I have to admit, Ford did a very nice job with it. It's very fast. Not much of a handler when you compare it to the G or the TL, but it's got all the toys, in addition to being fast. I can see its appeal for a certain segment.

Point being, there are lots of good cars out there now. One of them will appeal to a certain segment. Far be it from me to tell someone that one is better than the other.

jspagna1 · April 2010

When we were shopping for a new car for my wife,we were looking at the 2010 ES350 & Maxima. Wife did not like the G35X(too small & uncomfortable). The ES350 had no road feel and was kind of an old peoples car according to my wife. We drove the Maxima, haveing owned 2 of them previously and she just did not like the interior, and I didn't like the drive.
We were not even considering the 2010 TL until I convinced her to just test drive the car. Man we fell in love with the car and I love the fact that it is AWD. This is our first Honda/Acura product so hopefully it will serve us well as I ussually keep my cars for at least 10 years. We have also gotten many compliments on the car.
I did have the front beak painted on the car to match the body color (WDP) which was a big improvement and the interior(Ebony) is absolutely incredible.

Acura TL 2009

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