Acura TL 2009

laurasdada · September 2008

"But, the TL trumps the G on interior room and interior style/quality of materials. "

Exactly one of the several qualities that led me to buy the TL over the '05 G...

Yes, buying European does give me pause. But, I drove Chrysler products from ~1995-2005 (company Intrepid, then I bought a '99 300M) and neither, while not near the build quality of Japan, cost me any out of warranty money (well, because the AC went on the Dodge about 2k miles after warranty, the dealer did me a favor and ruled that it happened in warranty! Thank you for saving me $1k+!). So, I think I'm ready to take a chance on BMW/MB/Audi/Jag.

A coworker has an '06 A4. He puts a lot of miles on it, long commute so he's already out of warranty. Unfortunately, he's had to shell out some $$$... Another co-worker had to put a new engine in his wife's '02 BMW 330 convertible. BMW claims she ignored warnings regarding the cooling system, she claims no such warnings were offered... But a neighbor has an '02 A4 w/130k+ miles. Other than routine/expected maintenance (which I'm not sure that he does!), it's still tickin'...

You should check out the A5 in person. Pix just don't show the true beauty of D'Silva's design...

sekitori · September 2008

>TL trumps the BMW on features, space, and price.

I'm sure it's less expensive than the 3 series. I really don't know if it has more and/or better features. That statement sounds quite subjective and I would guess that a BMW enthusiast (I'm not one of them) would disagree with you.

And while it does somewhat trump the 3 series on space, it does so at a huge price. The TL has one more inch of front legroom, about 1 1/2 more more inches of rear legroom, and one more cubic foot of cargo space than the '09 BMW 3 series sedan. The problem is that the '09 3 series sedan is 178.2 inches long, 71.5 inches wide, and weighs close to 3,350 pounds. The '09 TL is 195.5 inches long, 74 inches wide, and weighs just about 3,700 pounds. So in order to get that small increase in legroom and trunk capacity, you end up with a car that's over 17 inches longer, 2 1/2 inches wider, and close to 350 pounds heavier.

Considering that increasing the exterior size and weight of the TL has resulted in such an extremely small increase in interior space, I personally would much prefer the smaller car with the "trumped" amount of space.

bodble2 · September 2008

"Considering that increasing the exterior size and weight of the TL has resulted in such an extremely small increase in interior space, I personally would much prefer the smaller car with the "trumped" amount of space"

My feeling exactly! The '09 TL is no doubt mechanically and dynamically superior to the '08, but, as I said from day 1, it is over-sized and over-styled.

graphicguy · September 2008

sek....I'm a former 3 series owner (current platform). Unless you're going to get a 328i, with few options, the price of something like a 335i, equipped "like-for-like" with the TL, you're looking at $50K for the BMW.

That's a tough pill to swallow for a compact sports sedan. Granted, a 335i is sweet. I've driven one briefly. I will say, hands down, the feature content in the TL works better, is designed better, operates better, than the same features in the 3 series.

But, as you say, it depends on what you want. I haul people in my vehicles all the time. So, the extra room in the TL is welcomed. I'm willing to forgo the few extra tenths in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times to get that room. From a subjective standpoint, the TL "feels" bigger on the inside than my former 3 series.

Styling as always, is subjective, too. I've heard some who damn the "Banglized" versions of every BMW currently on the market. Just like I've heard some Acura fanatics "damn" the redesign of the current TL. Personally, the current BMW style didn't bother me nearly as much as it did other people. Same goes for the TL. I like the rear and profile view of the TL. The front end, I can take or leave.

Just the opposite was true on my BMW. I didn't like the rear styling of it. Front end was fine, though.

Starting with the 3G TL, it was clear that Acura was going "edgier" styling. That trend continued with the 4G.

Do I wish that Acura had designed a RWD TL? Sure. But, I understand what they're trying to do . I applaud them for exorcising the FWD demons that plagued my '04 TL. They did a hell of a job. Dynamically, the '09 TL feels like it's entering another realm, maybe a notch above where the 3G TL was.

Different strokes for different folks, though.

This is a hotbed of the segment, where there are a lot of good players. CTS, BMW 3 series, Infiniti G, Acrua TL, Audi A4 or 5, Benz C class. I won't even get into the Lexus players (IS & ES). The IS is too cramped for what I'd use it for. The ES is too soft for what I prefer. Mercedes in my book will always play 2nd fiddle to BMW.

The TL (even my '04) didn't trump any other car in any one particular category. It's the whole package....the performance, the dynamics, the feature content, the build and material quality, the reliability, etc....as an entire package, at the price point, that becomes the selling point.

Once they start discounting it, (I'm thinking to somewhere in the $35K-$36K for a tech package), it will be tough to beat. Closest would be the G.

Right now....today...given you can get a Gx with NAV for low-mid $30s, that probably would be my choice. But, I'd prefer the extra room in the 4G TL, if it gets to that price point.

larasdada....I'll make it a point to seek out an A5. As I said, from what I've seen, it's a sharp looking car. I always expect Audis to handle and perform well, so that should be a given.

dianap999 · September 2008

Hi - I just purchased a 2009 TSX a week ago and I love it. My question is this. I noticed that when I first start the car each time, for the first 10-15 seconds or so, the engine sounds loud, then levels off and becomes quieter. It sounds almost as though I am stepping on the gas pedal while I start the car.

Has anyone else noticed this? Is this normal?

I thought I read something in the owners manual last week that said there was something that causes the engine to be a bit louder when first started - but I can't find it now.

Any feedback would be appreciated. (My next step will be to contact the dealer service department, but I thought I'd try to see if anyone else experienced the same issue first.)

Thanks.

roccoman7 · September 2008

"2009 TL Featured Standard Lease
$419.00 per month for 36 months. $3,699.00 total due at signing.
FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2009 TL with Automatic Transmission (Model UA8629JW) for $419.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,685.00 capitalized cost reduction"

You notice the capitalized cost reduction in there? That $2685 amounts to $75 a month for 36...meaning you are actually paying $494 a month with no tech package. If the car is stolen or totalled at any point during your lease, you lose $75 a month for how many every months were left on the lease. Bottom line is that this isn't a great deal at all...If you want to be one of the first to own the 09 TL and pay full MSRP by way of lease, then go for it. If you want to add tech package I'm sure they will gladly add it for $50 to $60 more a month and you're looking at $550ish a month with no discounts. I've test driven it already and since I said I'm not serious until I test out the AWD, my dealer didnt go into extreme detail, but gave me a ballpark figure of $550 with tech. With the state of this horrible economy, in a few months the asking price should go down a couple thousand and you should get a better lease deal if needed.

tlong · September 2008

Wow! My thoughts exactly....on the TL, the new TSX, the Toyota-ization of Honda products in general. I love the styling of my '04 TL; it's got all the room I need, it's smooth, comfortable and reasonably fast. But it's kind of boring to drive. It's more cruiser than bruiser, and the steering is numb-ish. Unless I absolutely need the room, I prefer to drive my wife's Mini, despite it's meagre 118 hp.

Bodble2, you've hit exactly how I feel. My TL is a great cruiser but it's a bit disconnected. I don't even want/need a ton of power -- but I DO want tight, responsive steering and agile handling. Bigger cars just don't do that. Previous models were still a good balance between sport and practicality, but these 190+ inch long cars are not my idea of sporty. I think Honda and perhaps Acura is migrating from sporty to more luxury - heading toward lexus-like. I wish they had a compact premium sedan like the older A4 or TSX or even the Jetta. With the TSX getting a bunch bigger, everything is getting less sporty. Sporty *big* cars remind me of Camaros and Firebirds, and that's not a pretty picture.

bodble2 · September 2008

I personally think that Acura's got a case of Lexus-envy. Honda in general has more or less abandoned its roots. Except for the odd isolated models (ie. S2000, the old TSX, Civic Si), the Honda/Acura line-up consists of over-sized models. 10 years ago, would anyone have thought that the Accord would now be classified as a full-size car?! :surprise:

graphicguy · September 2008

I kind of see it as if the Civic (which has also grown) has taken the place of previous generation Accords. You want smaller? There's always the FIT.

Acura TSX has taken the place of previous generations of the TL. What I see Acura abandoning is the small premium segment (like an A3).

If you look at the sports sedan segment overall, they all got bigger. Even the current 3 Series is bigger than the previous gen.

Needless to say, it's an industry wide trend.

go_mdx1 · September 2008

Visited the local Acura dealer over the weekend to see the new 09 TL. Was quite surprised at the number of 09 TL's available - over 10 vehicles - 50% of them had the Navi package. I can remember the days when the 04 TL came out and there was a several month waiting list for the Navi models. Beyond the styling controversy, the economy is clearly slowing things down in the sales area.

Nearly all of the "in stock" cars had grey interiors - didn't see any with black interior. Given the black dash and door parts also in black, I gotta think a black interior would be a bit overwhelming.

Externally, I really like the rear view of the car and the highlighting of the exhaust pipes. Front view is still hard to get used to. At a 500 foot distance, in looking at the front of the car, I'd swear its a Saturn. The side view is very bland - especially compared to the previous generation TL which has very unique design lines.

graphicguy · September 2008

Yeah....it seems the rollout of the new TL was handled differently this time around. Sounds like Acura wanted the dealerships to have good selection for this "kick off".

The dealership I went to for the kick off (last Friday..... had about 10-12 units available). I know they sold 2 in the 90 minutes I was there. Went past the dealership last night. I counted 5 left....two in the showroom, 3 on the front line of the lot.

So, I'll assume their initial stock of TLs are selling well, at least in SW OH.

I think whenever there's a major redesign, of any car, some fans will like it. Some fans won't. The more dramatic the redesign, the more people who could be potentially "out of the market" for the car.

I suspect the more of these that get on the road, the more people get used to seeing them, the less and less furor there's going to be.

bug4 · September 2008

"One deposit was for the one I test drove....by the person who drove it right after I did. I hope he didn't see my test drive because I did wring it out pretty good."

This on a car that you admit you were not in the market to buy. That's [non-permissible content removed]! I guess its really the dealership's fault. . they should provide test-drive cars. And your salesman should have done a better job of weeding you out. You're the reason I will not buy a car that's not still wrapped in plastic.

graphicguy · October 2008

bug.....ummm.....it was a private event....sponsored by the Acura dealership specifically for the unveiling and test drive of the new TL. They wanted the attendees to drive their cars. The dealership knew full well I wasn't in the market. But, I was a former customer. So, I got the invite.

It was at their urging that I did the test drive.

I admit, if I were in the market, the one I test drove would have been the one I bought....."red pearl". Very sharp.

Apparently, at least one person felt the same as I did. Because, they bought that car the same night.

When I test drove it, it had 42 miles on it. After I got done, it had 54 miles on it. I would imagine the person who bought it (who test drove it right after I did) put another 10 miles on it? So, 64 test drive miles in total, maybe?

I don't understand why you'd be so "up in arms" about that..... :confuse:

billyperks2 · October 2008

I guess because you floored it during the breaking period

graphicguy · October 2008

billy....many years ago, you could probably make a case regarding "babying" a car in the first few miles. Today (probably over the last decade), that's not the case. Manufacturing tolerances and testing are to the point where most manufacturers will even state that "break in" is really a thing of the past. The most I've ever seen regarding "breaking in" a new car is to vary the RPM and try not to induce a panic stop. Really, those are about the only qualifiers.

I actually live in OH, about a couple of hours from the Marysville, OH plant where the TL and Accord is made. I've visited the plant on a couple of occasions....one time got a tour. Another time saw them pull cars off the end of the manufacturing/delivery line and test them.

They redline them. They drive them aggressively. They induce the ABS panic stops. They run the transmissions through hard gear changes (both manual and automatic). They even have an engine room where they test the "green" motors at high RPM.

Bottom line in all this, they test them much more aggressively than any test driver (including me) could ever do. Then, they pull them onto a delivery truck to take them to the dealerships.

Every car new car I've ever bought, I've test driven to find out what the car can really do.....to no ill effect. How else are you going to tell if you really like the car or not?

You're going to do that on a daily or weekly basis as you merge onto a busy highway. You're going to do that on a daily/weekly basis on the open road.

If there's one thing Hondas/Acuras are known for, it's their longevity and durability. Believe me, before they reach the lot, before they even get on the delivery truck, they've been tested in ways neither you, nor I would ever dream of. That's done while the "plastic" is still fresh on the seats, too.

50-60-100 test miles on a new car is nothing....particularly for a Honda/Acura product.

If you really want to see some hard initial miles on a new car, go to Bowling Green, KY to the Corvette plant (about 4 hours from me....something I've done.too). They pound those cars HARD. I've seen them "drift" some of the new Corvettes as new cars. And then, they put them on a truck to be delivered to the showroom.

bug4 · October 2008

Sorry about that - you caught me on a bad day. Just yesterday, I took my car in with 15,000 miles to replace all 4 brake rotors. I've driven it 95% interstate driving in my one year of ownership and pride myself on making brakes last forever. Apparently, before I picked up my "new" car with something like 30 miles on the odometer, someone had gone out and given it a romping. According to my Honda/Acura dealer and most everyone I've talked to, brakes should not be pounded their first 200 miles. Fact is, I give all my cars (and especially my SUV/Trucks) an extensive break-in period.

I appreciate you taking my unduly harsh criticism in stride - especially since you were invited to drive the car. My bad

graphicguy · October 2008

bug....no problem! Brakes can be finicky....especially new ones. As you noted, it could take some miles for the new pads to "seat". Sometimes they "seat" immediately. Sometimes it does indeed take a couple hundred miles to do so.

Any excessive heat can warp rotors. But, that can happen anytime....not just during the first couple hundred miles. 15,000 miles does seem a bit soon to have to get the rotors turned. When did you first notice an issue with them?

Not everyone feels the same way I do. I've got an '07 Tahoe. I towed with it the day after I pulled it out of the showroom floor with 17 miles on the odo. 2 years later, no issues.

I've heard some dealership mechanics say to "drive it like you stole it", regarding a car off the showroom. I've heard others say to drive it cautiously for the first few 100 miles. So, there's been no consensus as best I can tell.

I fall under the category of "keep a loose lookout" for how you drive for the first couple hundred miles. But, if faced with a situation where I have to slam on the brakes within the first 100 miles to avoid an accident, I'm not going to worry about breakin. After seeing the tests done at the factory, I don't worry at all about putting my foot in it for brief periods.

I've known some that refuse to take a new car with anything more than about 20 miles on the odo. I don't fall into that camp, however.

Best of luck!

jakesnake · October 2008

I really do want to like this car! It is time to get rid of my 2003 BMW 3 series, and I don't necessarily like the new 3 series. I have not test driven the new TL. I am sure it is a great driving car and has a great stereo and everything else I would love. But I am afraid there would be that nagging thought in my head-"I just paid a lot of money for a really ugly car and now everyone is laughing at me, girls won't like me, and I am going to have to defend it every time someone asks me about it".

I know, I am all grown up now, and it doesn't matter what other people think. I am the only person that I need to impress. To hell with the TL. I'm gonna buy a moped and date a fat girl! :shades:

billyperks2 · October 2008

Make sure she does not break your moped-then both of you will be left stranded.

kennyg8 · October 2008

I am quite sure that Acura polled/surveyed the drivers before designing the 4G TL, making it bigger, softer and urguably more luxurious. Many americans nowadays are big (I don't mean obese), comparatively speaking, So, Acura is only following what americans want, and I don't think we should criticize or disparage Acura for trying to sell to the masses! The overly bold or conspicuous front grille design is a hit or miss, depending on your taste. Maybe overtime, after noticing it so much, people might ignore or get used to the prominent protuberance. Honestly, it is not a crime to attract attention with a bold/funky design. Or is it?

bodble2 · October 2008

Acura, like most other manufacturers, got caught flat-footed when the economy tanked and gas prices sky-rocketed. The design die for the 4G TL was cast probably 5+ years ago, when the trend was bigger, more powerful. By the time the economic parameters were changed, it was too late to change course, for the most part. As for the grill, well, there's no excuse for that monstrosity! :mad:

bug4 · October 2008

Don't get me wrong, the new TL doesn't look like a Saturn - but I took a good look at a Saturn last night and I'm flat amazed at the similar design cues. As mentioned above, I'm sure Acura finalized the design for the 09 TL before Saturn released its new look. But, yikes! I'll bet the execs at Honda weren't real happy when Saturn beat them to the punch!

p.s. - I find it fascinating that two, likely completely unrelated, design teams can come up with similar designs. Why did both of them decide it would be brilliant to put a crease at the center-line of both the front and back of the car? Why did both of them decide to place a huge, chrome cap over the top of the grill? (Has anyone else noticed how important the grill opening is to the look of the entire car -- e.g. Infinity, BMW, Aston Martin. . . .I swear its the grill design that separates nice looking, expensive cars from cheap looking, crap.) I wonder if they are stealing from eachother, or whether their market studies and modeling literally just end up in the same place after performing their obsessive design exercises.

mrsatisfaction · October 2008

Acura has efficient 4 and 6 cylinder vehicles that are powerful. There is not one V8 to be found even in the SUVs unlike other luxury car lines. They've answered the call for space, versatility, and performance.

graphicguy · October 2008

One thing I forgot to mention about my test drive....the turning radius on the '09 TL is much better than the smaller '08 TL.

carmelwish · October 2008

I have to admit that when I first saw pictures of it, I thought it very ugly and harsh. I have been looking at different cars in the last two weeks: Audi A4, Lexus IS and ES, BMW 328, and I stopped by the Acura dealer last night just to see the TL in person. It was dark out, but the TL didn't look so bad in the dark and it really depended on what color you looked at (white bad, gray not too shabby). I guess what amazed me most was the fact that it had absolutely everything in it that I had been looking for. I looked at the package with navigation. I test drove it at night, and found that it was very comfortable for me, visibility was good, and I didn't feel strange driving a new car for the first time in the dark. I'm going back in the daylight to see what I think. Do I want to buy a car that is not "pretty" even though it has everything I want? Well, maybe....the ugly duckling...

bodble2 · October 2008

They lucked out on the V8 issue because they were slow to get on the V8 bandwagon, as they are notoriously slow to react to any trend. And wasn't it true that they had a V8 in the works for the new Pilot, but scuttled it at the last minute?

billyperks2 · October 2008

I saw the white with parchment interior and looked real sharp.
I cant wait to the see it with the UMBER interior-umber only comes witht the awd version.
Obviously thats my color combination until I see it in person, I might change my mind.

traumeri · October 2008

That reminds me, does anyone know why Acura/Honda consistently produce cars with wider than competition turning radii/diameters?? This is not counting the overhangs as well which are long due to the short-ish wheelbase.

ocim · October 2008

Does anyone know if the new TL comes with any wood trim options? I like the aluminum but some wood trim would make the interior feel more luxurious and warmer.

djdj · October 2008

I also think that wood warms the interior. I've never seen anything listed on the Acura website.

Today, a local mall (south of Akron) had cars from a few dealerships in the mall. The Acura dealer had the TSX, MDX and TL there.

I thought the TL really looked good in person. My daughter also really liked it. It was grigio which looks really good on the car. Had a black interior and the central console seemed to have a corrugated wood cover.

The car is huge! The shear size of it makes the big nose and back fit well in proportion but it is a big car now. Kind of like a Lexus GS350 size. Not sporty looking at all.

I liked the TL but looking at the TSX, with its size, gas mileage and features, I know I could be happy with that. My dealer gave me a new TSX for a loaner and I really like the way it drives.

I think someone has to see this new TL in person to decide if it is ugly or not.

habitat1 · October 2008

I'm not sure what the hell you claim you were seeing on your tour of the Acura plant, but let me say that the idea that "break in" is a thing of the past is ABSOLUTELY WRONG. If anything, proper break in for high compression, high revving, high performance engines is much more critical to achieving maximum performance and longevity than it was to your dad's push rod Buick. Or Chevy Corvettes.

I currently own a 2005 Porsche 911 S and 2004 Acura TL 6-speed. Formerly owned a Honda S2000. In the case of the Porsche, it is specifically stated in the owners manual that one should not exceed 4,200 rpms in the first 800 miles. This for an engine that redlines at 7,100. For the Honda, the instruction was not to exceed 4,500 rpm for the first 1,000 miles on an engine that redlined at 9,000 rpm. In both case, but especially the 911, an additional break in recommendation was not to drive the car for short hops during break in - the 911 has 9.5 quarts of Mobil 1 that take at least 15-20 minutes of driving to reach operating temperature. The 911 is a workhorse as far as sports cars go, but the one "problem" of rear main seal leaks coincided with not allowing the engine to reach full operating temperature and expand the seals and gaskets fully DURING BREAK IN.

I'm not a mechanical engineer. But I have spoken extensively with senior engineers from Honda, Acura, Porsche and BMW. Every one stressed proper break in as critical.

Do whatever you want to your own car, but don't spread some urban legend that break in isn't important. And if you don't believe me, ask someone who actually knows the engineering behind a Porsche, AMG, BMW Motorsport, Ferrari or Honda S2000 engine. Is the TL in that league? No. But it's close enough to warrant care and consideration.

billyperks2 · October 2008

Welcome back.
What is your take on the new TL?
I think more than likely its going to be my next car, I test drove the FWD version and really liked it.However I am opting for AWD, pearl white with the umber interior along with those FCS 19" wheels they offer as an accesory.I am waiting for the hype to cool off then I will try to work a deal.

habitat1 · October 2008

....Billy - damn glad to see you around. It's been a long time since we did the "my Maxima is quicker than your TL-S" and vice versa, but those were great times.

I haven't personally seen or driven the new TL yet. A couple of trustworthy sources have told me the TL-SH-AWD is very impressive in the handling department, so I think you are going the right way with AWD. One of my few complaints on my 2004 TL 6-speed is that FWD and nearly 3,500 lbs (vs. 3,000 for the 95 Max) makes the handling front heavy. The AWD version is still front heavy and front drive biased, but apparantly the SH-AWD system goes a long way to mitigating most of the handling issues.

Me, I'd opt to wait for the 2010 with a 6-speed manual.

One thing I'd caution you on with the 19" wheels is making sure you budget big bucks for tire replacement. I got 155k miles out of three sets of tires on my Max (15", 215 HR60). Total replacement costs of under $550 per set. I only have 32k miles on my TL 6-speed w/ the HPT package (17", 235 ZR 45) and I am on my third set. At closer to $900+ per set for decent tires. The second (first replacement) set was a big error on my part - listened to the Tire Rack advice that Avon Tech tires were nearly as good as Michelens. They lasted a whopping 13k miles, flat spotted after sitting for an hour, were noisy as hell, vibrated like they were out of balance and never tracked straight on the highway. Lost air to add insult to injury. So go for those 19" wheels if you want, but be prepared for some serious bucks over the years on replacement rubber. And if you try to penny pinch with Avons, don't say I didn't warn you.

Take care - hope all has been well with you.

spiritinthesky · October 2008

How about a second suggestion to get back on topic?

I read up about 20 posts to find the basis of this ranting and, as best I can tell, you and habitat disagree with what constitutes proper break in. He lists some specific advice he has received, you berate it, apparantly out of disdain for the sources (i.e those "common as Accord" Porsches) and then offer your own highly technical "just don't do anything stupid for the first 1,000 miles". That's great, Mr. Einstein, now let it rest.

--------------------------------------------------------

As for the TL, I did get an unexpected opportunity to drive a new SH-AWD TL here in Pittsburgh yesterday and must admit I was impressed. My wife and I had gone to look at the MDX as a possible replacement for our SUV and instead I ended up on a 40 mile test drive of the TL with the manager to pick up his daughter at the airport. The car we took was not for sale - apparantly an early release test car that already had 1,200 miles on it. I'm not a fan of Acura's automatic transmission - they would gain a lot by making a DSG or SMG the standard offering. But the handling was a significant improvement over the front wheel drive TL and noticably crisper than even the more expensive RL. This car should definitely be on the shopping list of anyone considering a mid size entry to mid level luxury sedan.

billyperks2 · October 2008

My paln is to use the Summer Tires for the Summer and then use the stock wheels with a decent set of winter tires for the cold months. I dont drive alot plus I use my old camry for commuting to the train.

604doc · October 2008

You guys are harshin' my mellow.

laurasdada · October 2008

" cars I have owned (only one of which in 30+ years and 10+ vehicles was more expensive than a 2009 TL)..."

Lucky you, how'd you pull that one off! My '05 TL is the most expensive car I've yet bought. Evil Wife's RX300, however, much more expensive than my TL. Now, how'd that happen!?

I'd be in the market for a new toy (serious Jag XK lust going on), but Mr. Market has moved me down a socio-economic class or three...

go_mdx1 · October 2008

Simple question....

Has ANYONE on this forum actually purchased and taken delivery of a 2009 TL?? If so, please share your first quick impressions (defects, gas mileage, features liked and disliked).

Thank you....

gfish49 · October 2008

Can we get back on topic? Like to read more about the car and not that this other stuff that has nothing to do with it.

billyperks2 · October 2008

You mean our oohh so loved 09 TL- at least for me.
I cant wait for Spring to arrive.

gundersen · October 2008

Just bought an 08 TL for 28988. Although I will admit the 09 looks better in person than it does in photos, it still doesn't look nearly as good as the outgoing model, not to mention the fact that it is several thousand less. Also only 2.9% financing!!! To me it's a no brainer, anyone thinking of an 09 , go with an 08. And if you want AWD for 40k+ I'd go with the new G37 or 335.

privatepilot83 · October 2008

I saw the same cars at the Mall yesterday. The TL does look much better to me in person than it did in the pictures. They say it is 6" longer and 2" wider and it shows. I agree, it is a much larger overall vehicle than before. Did you notice it now has Weather Radar as part of the Technology Package? Way Cool!

privatepilot83 · October 2008

Honda and Acura cars do have a so called "break in" period, but it's not the same as you describe. I know most motors were manufactured and installed lighter weight oil to allow parts to "set in", then required changing to the "regular" oil after so many miles. My Acura Owner's Guide says this; "Help assure your vehicle's future reliablility and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles. During this period, avoid full throttle starts and rapid accelleration. Avoid hard braking for the first 200 miles and do not change the oil until the multi-information display indicates it is needed." Somewhere between 7,000 and 8,000 miles. That is only common sense! It doesn't say you can't take it on long trips or take it up to high speeds, it just refers to the rapid starts or accelleration. hardly the same as your Porche.

privatepilot83 · October 2008

When Acura builds a SH-AWD vehicle, it changes the entire vehicle. It does not take a Rear Wheel Drive car and simply add the Front drive system like BMW did. The 2009 TL SH-AWD and the 2009 TL are different platforms and are designed and built separately. That being said, you're right, it is still a Front Bias system with only 70% of the power able to be directed to the Rear Wheels, but once there, 100% can be directed to the right or left side as needed. My personal feelings are, I can feel the difference on the curves when accelerating on dry pavement. The SH-AWD version feels like you're on rails. You have the MDX, but there is no MDX without SH-AWD to compare, so I recommend going to your local dealership and trying the two TLs, one right after the other. You'll get what I mean. See if you don't feel the difference for yourself.

bodble2 · October 2008

Exactly! All pretty much common sense stuff. As I said, just don't do anything stupid, and you'd be ok. Is not brain surgery.

billyperks2 · October 2008

Is the AWD available NOW in certain parts of the country?
There is a poster here on Edmunds who gave the car a review as if they actually owned the car.

mrsatisfaction · October 2008

It won't be available until the end of November, but I have driven it pretty extensively and love the hell out of it.

I just happen to work for Acura. I don't own it yet!

spiritinthesky · October 2008

It doesn't say you can't take it on long trips or take it up to high speeds, it just refers to the rapid starts or accelleration. hardly the same as your Porche.

A pilot, I assume? I won't digress, but so am I, and my company provides engineering consulting services for HondaJet, Mitsubishi and a few others. Perhaps we can start a forum on microjets to discuss the latest and greatest there.

Regarding break-in, unfortunately the owner's manual recommendations fall short of what I do for all of my cars and what every knowledgeable mechanical engineer I know would recommend. In addition to "nothing stupid" catchall, the two recommendations I would add are (1) avoiding short trips during break in and (2) varying engine speed (rpms) on long trips (i.e. no cruise control).

Bodble is right, it's not brain surgery, but those additional recommendations are pretty valuable to proper break in. Short hops that don't allow the seals, gaskets and engine parts to reach full operating temperature and fully expand and contract result in improper "seating" of parts and over the long term can lead to oil consumption, leaks and other problems. It also can cause moisture and condensation in the exhasut system to form (i.e. not fully evaporate). The varying of engine speeds helps prevent scoring of the cylinder walls, and will also result in a "better" break in for long term durability.

It also doesn't take that brain surgeon to know that almost any car, Porsche or otherwise, that has been subjected to 30,000 miles of 3-4 mile or less roundtrips has probably suffered more engine wear than a vehicle with 100,000 miles of mostly highway driving. But it is particularly bad for a car, Acura or otherwise, to be broken in with those 5 minute hops. The difference being that Acura probably only has 5 quarts of oil to heat up, whereas a 911 has 10 and takes a little longer to reach full operating temperature.

The problem here isn't one of "urban legend", it's of marketing practicality. Most folks buying a Porsche would have little trouble adhereing to a "don't drive less than 20 minutes or 10+ miles" during break in. But try making that recommendation with an Acura or Toyota, and the consumer response would be negative. Hence the weak language in most owner's manuals. And if that average joe starts burning oil at 50k miles rather than burning clean at 150k miles, so what? Most would never figure out that what they did in the first 1,000 miles may have made the difference.

I'm an engineer, but as a friend who is a cardiovascular surgeon puts it, "you'd be surprised at how many people eat Big Macs and don't think it's stupid". So using "stupid" as the metric is not a safe bet.

privatepilot83 · October 2008

Yep, a Private Pilot and the forum idea sounds great, but I'm only only a single engine land pilot, not commercial or jet aircraft licensed.
With Hondas and Acuras lasting easily more than 200,000 miles with normal drivers, not avid Aficionados like us, they don't seem to be as temperamental or as easily injured as some other motors, regardless if it's Mom running only to the store on the weekends, or Step Son driving the wheels off of it day and night. With Stainless Steel Cylinder Sleeves, Titanium Rings and all those great Aluminum alloys together, they really tend to last even without special treatment.
I'll be the first to admit, I treat my cars different than most and even I've had some cars who's engines failed, blowing oil after even the most perfect break-in and treatment. Then there are those motors that have been ill treated from the get go and only seem to grow stronger from it! It's alomost just the luck of the draw. Since Luck favors the prepared, I plan on maintaining my vehicles well and trust the Manufacturer to hold up his/her end of the bargain.

billyperks2 · October 2008

It was not you- some poster called Becky.
If you go to the new car page and pull up the TL, there is a section for the Ediotrs review and Consumer review.The poster gave her review as if she actually purchased the car.

Acura TL 2009

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