General Intake / Exhaust Mods

1nice95gs · December 2000

Is it possible for the K&N to provide to much air? I drive 50 miles a day and have noticed that my mpg has gone down. Could this be related to my supercharger?

flarearrow · December 2000

Ok, if K&N filters are that bad and will reduce your engine life, then why in the HOW TO do they have
http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/HowTo/aircleaner.html
up there promoting the use of K&N air filters?

I was thinking of replacing my stock filter element for a K&N, keeping the current stock air box, and modifying my current air intake piping to grab some cooler air from the outside using a funnel behind the grill and hose clamped onto the end of the existing air intake pipe. I'm still debating whether or not this is going to be a smart idea.

Any theories on what may happen?

blackstone3 · December 2000

Has anyone heard or tried this product?

www.tornadoair.com

stever · December 2000

The consensus on the Usenet postings (via deja.com) on this product is that it's a scam. One quote: "Those gadgets that add swirl are a half century old. They were bunk when first sold, and still bunk".

Steve
Edmunds.com Town Hall co-host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories conferences

klippy · January 2001

If you are not already familiar with it, the K & N filters can damage your engine. See Edmunds townhall postings #426 and #427 (Jan. 1 and Jan. 2, 2001) in the "Infiniti I30 - Part 4" consumer comments.

stever · January 2001

I've been known to inquire about aftermarket air filters myself from time to time, and have seen the report that the construction company employee posted (via the "cache" link at goggle.com). Many people don't think it's "fair" to compare filter usage in a dirty, dusty construction setting.

It would be interesting to see some independent testing results of these types of filters in a typical automotive setting.

Steve_
Host
Vans and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

sascuderi · January 2001

I sent a copy of the concerns about K&N filters and a copy of that letter from the construction company about how bad K&N filters are directly to K&N. Here is their reply:

Dear customer,
It is a fake. Note the date, 1995 and still going around. How do I
know you ask? We DO NOT make filters for mining or construction equipment.
If he used a small Honda filter on a turbo charged V12, no wonder he had
problems!!! Here is the truth to it.
Our filters are tested by an outside, independent laboratory. They
have been proven to stop at least 99% of particles on a SAE dust test. This
test uses particles in the 0 - 5 micron range and goes up to 20 microns.
For comparison, a paper filter also stops 99% on the same test and the OEM
minimum standard is 96%. Foam is generally the worst media with a typical
efficiency rating of 75 - 85%. To get higher ratings, the foam must be more
dense and therefore way more restrictive. The "tack" characteristic of a K&N
allows for increase filtration without loss of flow as well.
The testing procedure used is SAE J-726 using ISO Coarse Test Dust.
This test is the standard of the air filter industry. The test procedure
consists of flowing air through the filter at a constant rate (airflow rate
is determined by the application) while feeding test dust into the air
stream at a rate of 1 gram per cubic meter of air.
As the filter loads with dust the pressure drop across the filter is
increased to maintain the prescribed airflow rate. The test is continued
until the pressure drop increases 10" H2O above the initial restriction of
the clean element (in this case .78" to 10.78" H2O). At this point the test
is terminated. The dirty filter element is then weighed. This weight is
compared to the clean element weight to determine the total Dust Capacity.
The amount of dust retained by the filter is divided by the total amount of
dust fed during the test to determine the Cumulative Efficiency.

The K&N filter achieved the following results:

Dust Capacity: 305 grams

Cumulative Efficiency: 99.05 %

We got started over 30 years ago making filters for motorcycles and off
road racers. The filters did so well that these guys wanted them for their
cars and trucks. We started making filters for these applications and here
we are today. If they did not work, we would not still be here and growing
every year.
We now make filters for Chrysler/Mopar, Ford Motorsports, Edelbrock,
Rotax Engines, and Harley Davidson. We come as original equipment on the
2000 Ford Mustang Cobra-R. We even made the filters used in the Apache
helicopters used in Desert Storm and the US Marine Corps new Osprey
tilt-rotor aircraft. If they work in these conditions they will work for
you. This leads me to the Ford post. The dealership may not void the
warranty per Federal laws. The Moss-Magnuson Warranty Act of the Fair Trade
Commission states that if a part is not covered under warranty, the consumer
may use any brand they choose to. Air filters are not covered under the
warranty so you are free to use any brand you choose. The real clincher is
the fact that Ford carries and sells a line of our filters at the
dealerships. We make the filters for Ford Motorsports and they even took
out a 1 page "ad" in our catalog. In fact, we are original equipment on the
2000 Mustang Cobra-R. I find it highly unlikely Ford would endorse a
product that causes problems with their vehicles. In fact, Honda and Toyota
only recommend K&N filters when using aftermarket high flow filters as K&N
is the only brand of filter the oil does NOT come off of.
You may post any or all of this if you like, in fact, it would be
appreciated. I would be interested in seeing the responses. Bottom line,
the internet is opinions not facts. Don't take all you read as accurate.
Thanks for writing, Rick

> ----------

ciscokid70 · January 2001

The first time you change the filter always feels good it is clean...duhh.

The K&N has a couple of problems first it costs 4 times a normal FRAM or Puralator. Second when you clean it, it is NEVER as clean as the first time you bought it. By the third time you try and clean it you would be better off with a conventional filter.

I have tried them all. When I go to the drags I only use one filter WIK. Awsome but does not last long because it catches everything and needs replacing after about 5k.

On my wifes car and daily driver I use FRAM.

But HEY to each his own

ciscokid70 · January 2001

These are the filters that the racing guys I know favor. I only use them on my drag car.

Like I said before on my normal cars I stick witha NEW, CLEAN FRAM every 15k miles.

breath cleanly

joffficer · January 2001

I have a 1985 chevy caprice. Not much of a power house with the 305/carburator. With a K&N airfilter what can I expect? Any ideas for cheap power gains would be helpful.

Thanks,
Jeff

bamm1 · January 2001

Looking for some info on I&N filters for this particular engine. This truck has 139,000 miles on it at this time. Also interested in putting a cat back system on any suggestions? Did it improve performance and or fuel mileage?

300michael · January 2001

The cat back will make the biggest differance. If you are crising or easy on the gas your mileage will increase. if you tend to lead foot it you mileage will go down. I got an 8 mile increase from 27 to 35 Hiway on my 3.5L

briancorr · January 2001

How about amsoil filters? I have always used K&N in the past but heard about these and just put one in my new truck. Quality seems very good, maybe better than K&N and the price was better. IMHO, the gains have always been barely noticable changing out the stock filter. But every little bit helps.

mwdream · January 2001

Looking for added fuel economy more than extra horse and torque... will K&N provide better fuel efficiency? anyone notice this?

Also can K&N hurt the engine at all if no modifications are made to the exhaust system other than the filter replacement?

Thanks for helping

ucsc · February 2001

Hi,

has anyone tried K&N filter on Mitsubishi Diamonte LS or 3000 GT?

UCSC

orlie · February 2001

Anyone out there made this modification to a 2001 Tribute (ES V6 engine)? I called Performance Products (online reseller for K&N) and they have the 33-2187 air filter listed for the 2.0L I4 Zetec engine -- 'not sure if both engines use the same filter (nobody can tell me yet), but if anyone has made this change on a Tribute, I'd appreciate any feedback (impressions, likes/dislikes, etc.). Thanks!

- Orlie C., NY

armtdm · March 2001

Being a loyal Amsoil oil and oil filter user I have tried their oil foam air filters. I did not notice any eally difference in performance etc.. They claim, like K&N, lifetime filters. Well, sorry, after two or three washings (a true pain) my fell apart at the edges. Anyway, I went back to the paper and guess what, I do oil analysis and the dirt and wear metals did not change between the foam filter and the OEM. I did see a difference in OEM air filters and Fram, Purolator though, OEM does a better job. On oil fitlers though, Amsoil, Mobil 1 and Pure One do a better job then OEMs. Based purely on 9 years of oil analysis on several cars.

s76drvr · March 2001

Been using these filters for years on various vehicles (cars, minivans, and now SUV's) just replacing the OEM paper element. Did see an improvement in fuel economy and performance. Mine have been easy to clean and maintain. I did research and don't recommend the "open air" assembly that just sucks hot air from the engine compartment.

armtdm · March 2001

I am considering an open system for one of my cars, you said you did research on these. Can you lead me to the studies or summarize what you found?

s76drvr · March 2001

Ideally the engine should be receiving as much cold air as possible (it has to do with air density and achieving optimum fuel air ratio to achieve the maximum even burn efficiency possible). In the old days of carbs, besides ducting to the outside (which is still done i.e. the Ram Air Trans Am), racers would use a "cool can" which usually was an old old coffee can with coiled copper fuel line wrapped around the inside surrounding whatever was available including dry ice). This is still the principle why turbine engines are so much more efficient up at altitude or in very cold temperatures. Anyway the example provided was a K/N Filtercharger assembly for a 4.6L Mustang GT where the intake was directly behind the radiator. Majority of vehicles today duct to outside air. Save the money and just replace the filter element.

stever · April 2001

speedmark "Ford Windstar Problems II" Apr 6, 2001 8:23pm

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

mrl11777 · April 2001

A Ford TSB states that mass air sensor failure/contamination can result from a variety of sources: dirt, oil from the crankcase vent, a spider web, or even potting compound from the sensor itself which releases an oily residue causing shorts. Another "problem" is occasionally a mass air sensor is unable to "read" the increased air flow due to preset computer parameters.
Not all vehicles are alike and there are a rare few that may have problems with filters, exhausts, etc. The real clincher that it is a vehicle's problem rather than the filter is the fact that Ford carries and sells a line of our filters at the dealerships. We make the filters for Ford Motorsports and they even took out a 1 page "ad" in our catalog. In fact, we are original equipment on the 2000 Mustang Cobra-R. I find it highly unlikely Ford would endorse a product that causes problems with their vehicles. We supposedly "contaminated" mass air sensors to Ford headquarters and their techs said not a single one was contaminated. If oil was to get
on the hot wire, the wire itself can be cleaned or replaced. There is absolutely no need to change the sensor itself unless it has an internal circuitry short that could not be caused by filter oil. I would also question as to why Ford is the only manufacturer that has this problem. GM, Chrysler/Mopar, and every import maker do not have this issue. In fact, Honda and Toyota only recommend K&N filters when using aftermarket high flow filters as K&N is the only brand of filter the oil does NOT come off of.
Sounds more like a design problem than anything else.
I hope this was helpful information.

mfuller1 · April 2001

K&N, AEM and countless other companies make claims of horsepower gains just by changing your air filter. Realistically, most stock engines will only see a 1-3 horsepower increase. The point that most of us fail to see is that an engine will only ingest as much air as it is designed to use! The engine must have the capacity to use more air first. Sure the filter may have more surface area or less restriction, but if the rest of your intake tract ( MAF sensor, intake tube, throttle body, intake manifold, cylinder head ports) is stock, the engine won't actually ingest any more air! There are a few exceptions to this rule: turbocharged, supercharged, and nitrous-oxide equipped engine that actively FORCE more air through the engine. For those that can claim "I got a K&N and my HP went up by 10 and I verified it on a dyno", Congrats. The intake tract on your particular vehicle allows for the increased volume of air to enter the cylinders. But this is usually not the case. Your engine can only use as much air as the intake tract allows, and changing your air filter can't change that.

MarkinAtlanta · April 2001

Yes, but, the biggest restriction is often the filter.

brucer2 · May 2001

All the data I've seen on intake restrictions, gathered by measuring air pressure drop in different parts of the intake, have shown that the air filter typically causes a very small pressure drop. The greatest drop is usually across the MAF. These measurements were done on Japanese brand cars. Not all cars are the same, so your results can be different. I have yet to see a K&N drop in filter make any difference, when using instruments, as opposed to butt-dynos.

tronsr1 · May 2001

Has anyone used the above product? It is at
www.tornadoair.com and has been seen on Shadetree Mechanic and several other sites.
It supposedly increases your hp and mpg.Cost is about $70.00 and takes five minutes to install.
Before I buy same....I would like to have some input from anyone that has installed same and the results.Usually....If it sounds "too good to be true....it is too good to be true".
Help me NORT

stever · May 2001

"Even for the few gas-saving products that have been found to work, the savings have been small".

Gas-Saving Products

Steve
Host
Vans, SUVs and Aftermarket & Accessories Message Boards

brucer2 · May 2001

I looked at the web site. The thing is probably worse than useless. First of all, it has to partially block the flow and slow it down. Second, if installed upstream from a MAF the turbulent air flow will cause incorrect measurements.
Don't you think car manufacturers, who have to meet MPG regulations, would use this thing if it worked?

MarkinAtlanta · May 2001

Brucer2, I agree with you, shouldn't expect much if any help from a simple K&N filter drop in replacement. I guess I probably got 5-8 hp advantange and a little more torque 7-10 ft/lbs with 3 mods done at once. These numbers are from a respected aftermarket manufacturer's dyno charts for the following changes. An ECU software upgrade, shielded cold air intake system with a K&N filter, 92 octane gas. Makes a little difference.

poisondartfrog · May 2001

I have opted for a drop-in K&N filter, but I got more substantial gains by replacing the stock exhaust with a cat back, T-304 stainless steel system from Borla. WOW... definite "seat of the pants" difference - climbs hills with less laboring and downshifting, and stays in a high gear longer over mild grades, which doesn't hurt gas mileage. For example, a recent 400 mile trip I got 1-2 mpg better over stock at 65-70 mph. And the sound is real throaty, but not too obtrusive during cruise or low RPMs, and the "intercooled" chrome tip is a nice touch. It was a relatively easy install, too...

Since I'm convinced there's more power to unrestrict, I'm looking at installing Edelbrock TES or JBA headers next. I'm still researching the intake side, maybe a larger throttle body and modifications to the air box.

BTW, any opinions on the Jet Plug-In Performance Computer for OBD-II applications?

300michael · May 2001

Read the fine print. 0% to .... increase. Get a tin can, and make one,and try it, it is far cheaper, and will do just as good, and it will save you $70.

charlesf150 · June 2001

Nowhere do I see statements of evidence about the effectiveness of these "performance" filters. Do they have the same filtering ability - in microns - of the disposable paper elements. If they don't, it's not worth the added wear on the engine for a small increase in power. How about putting two standard filters in parallel to feed the plenum?

namfflow · June 2001

Actually, that is an old racers trick. Back when there was space under the hood we would take 2 air filter elements and put a bead of RTV between them and stack them. This doubled the filtering and thus lowered the restriction.

As to the filtering capabilities of K&Ns, the oil bath type filter they use removes more dirt from the intake air than a standard paper element. There have been studies but I don't recall who did them. It was NOT the mfg.

snaphook · June 2001

I just installed a K&N in my 94' 325. There is no noticeable difference in power but I really wasn't expecting there to be. It does appear that my mileage may have improved slightly. Its a little too soon to be sure. Would I do it again? Yes. I like the idea that this is the last air filter I will have to purchase for this car. In addition, I too have read that this type of filter does a superior job at keeping the air clean. As far as it sounding different. Maybe a slight almost whistling sound during acceleration. IMO, this is a non factor.

tronsr1 · June 2001

I guess it's the old saying "If it's too good to be true, it is too good to be true." I will save my money.
Thanks again,
Tron

armtdm · June 2001

Unless you are going to invest in a new exhaust ssystem, say a Borla, to increase HP youwill be wasting time by having more air sucked intot eh system, it has no where to go. Plus, after a few years the foam filters tend to fall apart from the heat. My oil analysis says they filter no better then paper elements which do not have the hassle of washing and "re-oiling" .

kyleknicks · June 2001

I went to advance auto parts yesterday and found that the purator (spelling) cost $10 while the K&N cost $50. In doing the math, if i have to change the paper filter every 10k miles, i might as well buy the K&N plus the recharge kit for another $10 and not have to worry about changing my filter every 10k miles. if i'm not mistaken, with the k&n, it doesn't need to be cleaned out till 50k miles which i like alot! forget the claims for HP gains, if it could gain me a slight increase in gas mileage, i'll be one happy camper!

dgsg · June 2001

I have been using K&N Filters since the first became available for motorcycles. ( Sometime in the late 60's or early 70's? Damn, I am getting old!Used them in desert racing;District 39) They are some of the best money I have spent on my vehicles. On some vehicles you do see a slight increase in MPH and in all vehicles you never buy another filter! I clean mine every 30,000 miles. My last car had 192,000 miles when it was sold and the filter was still in excellant condition and the area past the filter in the intake tract was perfectly clean.

lwittorf · June 2001

I would like a response to this. I have a 01 ado with the 5.3 auto 4/4 and have been getting 18-21 mpg I put in a K&N and my mileage has gone down to high 15 to low 17s has any one else had this happen to them? I am going to call K&N and try to get some insight and also put the original back in and see if it goes back up. Thanks

fgf001 · June 2001

The K&N Fuel Injection Performance Kit for 1993-1997 MX-6 2.5 V-6 fits the same year(s) 626 2.5 V-6 perfectly, although you'll not find it listed anywhere. I installed it on my '96 626 and feel it was worth the bucks. Throttle response is improved across the board and makes sweet intake noise at full throttle, with more oomph than before. Mileage improved by 1/2 MPG AFTER I got through standing on the go pedal and drove normally.

fubaru · June 2001

I put in the K&N in my single turbo H4 5spd not long after breaking in the car. Can't really feel any difference in acceleration, but I rarely launch her and only sometimes exit corners at above 4K rpm. Engine seems to growl a little louder under light throttle though.

There was a post on i-club about somebody doing a dyno comparison on the '02 WRX with & without the K&N drop-in and showed +5 HP gain (about 227HP bone stock). The K&N plus fatter cat back exhaust (BPM I think) added +10HP.

Before installing my K&N I ended up buying two different part numbers because the recommended one didn't fit well and tended to slip down into the airbox even with the rubber strips. Make sure your air filter, whatever brand, fits you airbox tightly or you are going to really screw her up!

armtdm · June 2001

You are comparing a $50 K&N lifetime filter to a paper but you are replacing the paper every 10,000 miles. Manufacturer schedule is every 30,000 miles. Need to redo the math. Plus the cleaning and re-oling is a pain, oil accumulates in bottom of housing etc. Increased HP probably due to perception, feel good about the purchase.

dgsg · June 2001

Somebody is using WAY TOO MUCH oil!!!

glennyja · June 2001

lwittorf ,

I had almost the exact same experience as you. I drive a 1999 Suburban, with 5.7L and 2WD. Last month I installed a K&N air filter.
While the vehicle has increased power, the mpg declined from 20MPG to 15.9mpg. When you get a response from K&N, please share it on this site. I look forward to your response.

lwittorf · June 2001

I will be sure to post when I get hold of them I was not able to up til now but mon I will try been just to busy. Their # is 909-6849762 for their enginering dept or at least that is what the operator gave me and didn't have any thing for manufacturing so that is what I am going to try. Catch you later.

lwittorf · June 2001

Well I talked to K&N today and they told me that when you put a filter like that in it gives a lot more air so you have to disconnect your batt for about a hour reconnect so it can reset the computer then it will work all right. I will try it after I empty this tank of gas but it dosen't seem right to me as the oxy sensor should pick up the extra air and adjust the settings to where they should be. Will run 2-3 tanks of gas and will repost what I come up with.

dougsimpreza96 · June 2001

I was wondering if K&N Will work on a 96 Subaru Impreza. Also I was wanting to know about a K&N Supercharger for my car. Any info is greatly appreciated. Thanks

kyleknicks · July 2001

what are some of the websites that i could purchase a k&n airfilter for my 2k maxima besides carparts.com

thanks

fangio2 · July 2001

generated by the installation of a K&N air filter require any other modifications?Would larger performance tires and wheels be a good idea?Also perhaps beefier struts?T he car is a 2001 base RIO.

dgsg · July 2001

Try Summitracing.com for K&N air filters.

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