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Comments
For instance, one way to sweeten the deal is to take financing from the dealer, even if it's higher than what you can get at your bank or credit union. The dealer always gets a cut of the action (a point or two, which is significant on a 30K car) on the loan. Just make sure there's no pre-payment penalty. Then go to your own lender for the better deal, and pay off the dealer's loan.
Chris
Jack
Earlier in the week I had sent out quote requests to numerous local NY dealers as well MA dealers. One stood out in particular b/c he had quoted me with $29,410 for a tech package which I found quite unbelievable since it even beats out carsdirect.com. So after pretty much daily correspondence with this salesperson I had made an appointment with him on Saturday for a test drive. Guess what, when I got there, he sat us down and kept trying to sell me a regular Altima. After insisting on test driving a hybrid he then pretended to check on the car and came back telling us that they had sold all the hybrids already. I was fuming, this is clearly bait and switch tactic. They clearly did not have the hybrids but tried to lure customers in by quoting them low ball numbers but what good are the numbers if they don't even have the cars. (I'm considering reporting them to BBB though they already have unsatisfactory rating with them)!!
I then contacted another dealership nearby.. they appear to be the only BBB participant on Long Island. To make the long story short they had one available to test drive. The salesperson told us they had just sold one earlier and this is the very last one available. I called to test drive and that's why he held the key to make sure no one else could get into it (lots of BS but whatever).. this is the fully loaded version, so there's really nothing not to like I don't need the NAV system (love my Garmin) but really wanted the power consumption display. Anyhoo, I still haven't figured out my AMT vs. reg. tax liability yet so I wanted to do that first before deciding to buy in 07 or 08 (I had made a career change so it would have mattered some what)
We went back inside after the test drive. The salesperson (let's call him X) asked about my situation. I said I'll put half down and finance the rest. He then went and came back with some number like $600/M for 48 months + $15,000 down. I have excellent credit and considered this utterly ridiculous. X seemed clueless with all the numbers and appeared to be simply a messenger. I wrote down $$300/M for 48 months + 15k down + tax. X came back with ~$450/M for 60 months + $15,000. I was like, are you kidding me, you decreased the monthly payment and increased the number of months, how's that better than the numbers from b4. :mad: So X went back in again and at that point I was like they're playing the numbers as if we don't know Sh*t, let's get out of here. As mentioned previously, I wanted to calculate my tax liability first b4 deciding when to buy the car so walking out was not a problem.
As soon as we started walking, some one yelled out to X and both X and guess his manager quickly came by to stop us. The mgr was like "Oh how you doing" and I was almost screaming you're trying to sell us a $30k car for $40k. He said maybe we made a mistake, see (showed me a paper) we make offers based on the car number (guess their stock #) on this sheet. Maybe the stock number got mixed up and we're quoting you a number that was really for a Pathfinder or something that's over $40k. He said give us another chance just please wait another minute. I stayed mainly b/c I was curious whether they would really accept my offer which would make the car $294k (not considering finance chg). After a short while, the mgr came over and asked me straight out, if we agree to your terms are you willing to take delivery today? To tell you the truth, I hesitated and got a bit scared of making such a big commitment w/o first finding out about my tax liab. But I went ahead and shook his hand and made the deal.
All in all I was at that dealership for about 4 hours b/c they later tried to sell me an extended warranty (guess they're trying to make SOME money out of this deal somehow) which I declined. The Finance Mgr got frustrated at one point and was shuffling his papers around and jamming them into an envelope. I felt bad but I did not plan on taking on additional liability, even though the warranty might be good for all the tech stuff. I love the car, was at one point unsure which color to get, but the fact they only had one to choose from really makes my life a whole lot simpler. Even if I don't get the full Fed tax credit I think I'll still be very happy with the purchase!!
yeah, they call them stealerships for a reason
One thing you can always do to check the dealership's numbers is look at the bill of sale before you sign it. The dealerships are required by Federal law to disclose all costs, from the selling price of the car, to how much the financing is going to cost, shipping costs, dealer set up, etc., etc. They may try to get you to sign quickly, but take your time there, and look the numbers over. If you smell a rat, call them on it. Don't take, "It is generated by the system..we have no control over that." as an excuse...if it's not right, get them to fix it (they can if they want to). If they won't fix it, catch the shoe-leather express to another dealership...
Not only would I have brought my TI-83 (and its financial calculators) into the dealership for on-the-fly APR calculations, I had planned on casually dropping into the conversation that I'm a financial auditor and have completed the requirements for my CPA, hoping that the combination of those would convince them that trying to pull those types of things might not be a good idea.
Splash Guards and Floor Matts are ussually in every car, but sometimes they do not come in the car.
These accessories are listed on the window sticker so they are not free. If your sales person didn't charge you for them than it doesn't matter but I think he/she was stating that they you don't ussualy see a car with out them these days but it does happen.
As for what you think you paid, I don't know which NAH you purchased. If it had a tech pkg you got a discount of just over $1000... Not to bad on that vehicle. If you got a base on you got a discount of about $500.. Still not to bad.
GP
Per contract, here are the terms of the sale (for anyone who might need this going forward): Cash Price: $28,700; NYS Inspection $10; Registration $139; Title $45; Sales Tax $2,475.38 (ouch @ 8.625%!! ) NY Tire Fee $12.50. As mentioned, I'm paying $300/M for 48 Months at 2.9% so financing charges are approx. $890 and no prepayment penalty (no reason to pay off early since this is a great rate!)
BTW, does anyone know if the interior is supposed to be 2 toned? The interior ceiling is light beige (guess blond) and the bottom half is charcoal (leather). This is normal right? Forgive me for the question since this is the only Hybrid w/ Tech package I've seen so far and when I asked the salesperson he said they are all like that.
I got a call from Nissan corp on Monday to confirm sale and also to provide feedback about the dealership. Wasn't sure how to rate the dealer considering the stunt that they had played but they did give in fairly quick afterwards to make us happy. Told corp to call back after work but they never did. That's okay, I think for the more part I'm fine w/ the whole experience.
As for the splashguards, I think you're right. He basically said they come on every car and sometimes they're included in the price. Sometimes they're add ons (price-wise). They ARE on the window sticker (we kept it) as an additional fee. When I teased him about nickle and diming us, and asked if there were going to be charges like the window-sticker removal charge, he smirked and then he took the charge off (in addition to the 1000 over invoice). In the original offer from the dealer, the splashguards were included as part of the price, so, while it wasn't a big deal, they were staying true to the offer. We had purchased an extended warranty, so I'm sure they more than made up what small profit they'd have made on those.
We bought the full on Tech Package with leather. The only options we didn't get were the kick plates and the wind deflector (the salesman, who is a friend of ours, said they weren't worth the money). I don't like the look of the wind deflector, so I'm happy with that. The aluminum kick plates...I'm indifferent...
but it's utter BS that they said the next ones they sell will be MSRP. they'll try to sell at MSRP, but they'll give in. personally, no big deal for me, just don't be the sucker willing to pay MSRP. My deal was similar to yours, about $1000 over invoice, i think this is fair enough
We're happy with the 1K over invoice deal. What I was REALLY happy with is that the dealership didn't quibble much (but the sales guy was a friend of ours, which probably helped). I HATE negotiating for cars. Feel like I should get deloused after I leave the dealership. I'm always skeptical when a dealership tells me of a big price change about to happen. It's a pretty bold-faced sales tactic to get you to move, and then when they tell ya afterwards, it makes you feel good that you got a good deal from them, so you'll bring your business back.... In SOME cases it is supply and demand, which may have entered into the situation. We got one of the last hybrids for 07 north of San Francisco. As the supply of these very cool cars goes down, the price can go up if demand doesn't change. It's basic economics. Oddly enough, we don't see many NAHs in our area,which would seem to indicate the demand probably outstrips supply, but when I went to LA on business last week, I saw a lot of them out on the freeways. Maybe that's where all the "missing" NAHs are going.....SoCal?
I felt that if I were an aggressive negotiator I probably could have knocked the price down some more, but I was relieved to get in and out quickly with what I hope is a fair deal and didn't want the additional stress!
The two-toned charcoal interior does seem a little odd but doesn't really bother me...in general the car looks great I'm hoping for mid thirties MPG and a tax credit as well.
yeah, not worth it to spend an extra hour to negotiate over $200. my deal was simple as well, i was emailing a guy back and forth to check on inventory. when he finally had a car that was coming in, he emailed me and asked me how much I wanted to pay, I told him 30,500, he called me after 20 minutes, told me they could do 30,865. I was sold, I sort of low-balled what I was expecting to pay. I wanted 31,000 (keep in mind, this was back in february)
lol, oh yeah, why am i full of sunshine? haha
The car is really a blast to drive. I've driven Priuses, and found them to be, well, boring. Yeah, you feel good about saving gas, but geeky at the same time. It's particularly fun when someone is tailgating you, because they see the "hybrid" badge on the NAH trunk, and think they're following an anemically powered gas sipper. You stomp the pedal, and not even very hard, and, like Clark Kent, the car turns from a mild mannered transporter into something that feels like it is able to leap tall buidlings. I've seen more than one tail gater with a look of surprise on their face...
Still getting used to a "no shift" transmission, but so far it behaves very well except in one case. On long downhills out of mountains, the car uses the engine to regenerate power (charge the battery). Once the battery is charged, the engine seems to overspeed, as the load is released by the computer. A slight pressure on the gas pedal stops the overspeeding sound, and slows the engine a bit...probably OK, but seems odd.
No worries with us about the light-colored headliner. We used to have a car with a dark headliner, and on hot summer days, it would radiate heat for 10 minutes after the car got underway, until the AC could battle the heat into submission. Our experience with the headliner and moon roof is that we can get in the car, crack the moon roof at the rear (press the moonroof switch on the "closed" side, even if it's already closed) , run the AC, and the heat rises out of the car within a minute or so. Someone at Nissan was using their noggin.
Dealer B came in at $29,000 w/tech package. I went to Dealer A to see if he could match/beat it. Dealer A won't match it and doesn't think Dealer B will deliver on his price.
I checked Cars.com. Their price is the same as Dealer A.
So I have an appt with Dealer B for Thursday. Dealer B swears he has normal colors. . . We'll see if there's a bit of bait and switch going on here. . .
Question: Is extended warranty a negotiable item? How much does it/should it cost?
Thanks for help. These threads are invaluable.
I've heard of dealership actually trying to bait/switch car buyers to the standard Nissan Altima 2.5, since it gets roughly the same highway gas mileage (makes sense, really, that it does, the eletric motor on a Hybrid is for the slow, stop-n-go driving).
Another dealer offered me $29.7k. I was extremely happy with McKevitt in Berkeley and gladly agreed to the extra $200 in cap cost. I ended up with a lease at $434 plus tax for 39 months with 15,000 miles per year. No sunroof.
I also looked into the Prius with package 6 -- very similar in amenities, but a different driving experience (to me, a lesser driving experience). The best I could negotiate on the Prius was $434 plus tax monthly for 36 months and 15,000 miles per year. Easy decision for me after driving them back to back -- NAH!
McKevitt had quite a few tech package cars in stock and they treated me like gold. If you use email, Steve will be great to deal with. If you walk in, ask for Dave - he's a prince.
My cost out the door for the car was $31,944.11 with tax and license (tax rate in CA is about 8.75%). I got the full tech package. Color is white with gray interior (yes, with the two-tone, but I can live with that. )
I didn't get the moonroof. I had a moonroof on my old car and the only thing I ever got from it was a sunburned scalp.
Factoring into it is that the $1500 Nissan Cashback ends tomorrow (January 2), and there's no guarantee it will be renewed. Anyone know if there will be new incentives on the '07 that start up on the 3rd?
Anatomy of the deal:
2008 NAH in Precision Gray with the Tech Pkg and Aluminum Kick Plates:
MSRP: $32,375
Dealership's offer: $29,128+ T & L ($32,019.70 out the door - CA tax is 8.75% plus flat Dealer fee of $343 covering title/reg/lic. etc)
3.9% APR for 60 months (current Nissan special... this or $1250 cash back... the lower rate will save me more in the long run, as the normal going rate around here seems to be 6+%)
They are offering $12,000 on my trade in of a 2005 Honda Accord Coupe LX Special Edition 5SPD, on which I still owe $10,880 or so. (Seems a bit low, but, I guess that's what you give up when you don't have time to sell it yourself). They will apply the $1,120 difference after tax.
Seeing as the out the door price including our ridiculous CA tax rate is less than the MSRP, it looks like a good deal to me. I'd love some input, though...
I'm in Northern California, SF Bay Area (Santa Clara to be exact).
Thanks all, this discussion has been invaluable...
-Jon
I really enjoy my NAH so far! My only regret is that the city milage in SF is not better than the highway as the advertised milage metric suggests. There are a lot of stop signs and hills to contend with in the city so most of the time I am driving on the gas engine. On the other hand I have been advised of this before hand from friends who have hybrids so I did know what I was getting into. I find that the greatest benefit from the hybrid technology comes from driving in freeway traffic when in stop and go traffic the electric engine kicks in a lot.
Good luck.
BTW, thanks for your input on one of the Altima Hybrid threads regarding the installation of aftermarket HID and fog lights (http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.f187638?displayRecent). Both yours and langjie's input will be very helpful to me on that endeavor.
regardless, it's not a horrible deal, msrp for your car is 28,225, invoice 26,299
pretty much, you got the car for invoice price if you take into account the rebate. you probably could have got it down by maybe $1,000 max, but the hassle-freeness of your experience might just be worth it. $500 for documentation and stuff is maybe a bit high here in MA, here is $350ish. not sure about jersey though.
i don't consider getting "taken for a ride" unless you are paying close to MSRP or above.
Got the 2008 NAH in Precision Grey +Tech Pkg, +Aluminum Kickplates, MINUS sunroof (I'm 6' 3"... that extra 1.5" headroom makes a HUUUGE difference, especially when I'm not the designated driver and I'm forced to ride in the back of my own car and stew in my own loud-mouthed Long-Island-Iced-Tea induced stupidity... damn Bennigans and their $3 happy hours
MSRP was $32,475, dealer offered $29,128 + 8.75%tax + $343 flat dealer fee including reg. Out the door was $32,469 or so (I added LoJack negotiated from $699 down to $450)
I was pleased with the dealership for staying true to their numbers all the way through; Alex Asi and Wilson Bui are really honest and cool guys to work with (they are the Internet Managers). The Guy In The Little Office that Tried To Sell Me a $5,000 Warranty was kind of an [non-permissible content removed], but that's his job. (I think his name was Mark). I flatly rejected his comeons. It was kinda fun to see him squirm, though.
Funny story; I wanted the LoJack, but he kept trying to push it for 699... I said, "Make it 400 and you have a deal". He laughed right in my face, a big old fake, pretend laugh. With a completely straight face, I quietly said, "I don't remember telling any jokes." I think he wanted to punch me at that point . He said, "That's below my cost!", to which I replied, "Those are my terms. Okay, $450, and you can keep the six dollars you're stealing off the top of my trade. I saw you screw with the numbers". He got real quiet, took his warranty papers away from my side of the desk, clicked a few things on his computer, and printed the final paperwork in silence. I signed, shook his hand, and walked out of the room to get my keys.
Sorry buddy; I'm the wrong guy to try to out intimidate.
Overall though, I'm pleased with them, and am *McLovin* the hell out of my new ride.. All said, it took an hour and 45 minutes.
Thanks everyone...I think I'll name her Sparky .
I'll be lurking and posting from now on. You've all been very helpful.
-j5
yeah, don't you hate it when they try to oversell you crap.
i got an extended warranty though, initially it was 1800 (i went in a few times before buying the car), then they said there was a sale to 1500, and then they said the warranters had made a mistake and didn't know it was a hybrid and offered me 1180. i think 1180 is reasonable so then i got it
Good job in avoiding the hard sell on the expensive "extras". I have never let my guard down on a car purchase up until now. I somehow managed to let them sell me a $600 paint and upholstery protection package. What the heck was I thinking! Obviously I wasn't. So good job for you. On the other hand I guess its only fair that I let them make up some margin for selling me an NAH with Tech for only $27.6k.
Driving in fun again.
I don't mean to say that $1500 is a terrible deal for an extended warranty; it's actually not a bad price for what it covers. What *I* have a problem with is the whole, "but it only adds $50 to your monthly!" instead of just coming out and saying that the "gold package" warranty is $5,000. Then, there's the whole "suddenly, the price came WAAY down somehow!" Offer me your best price in the first place, and I'll believe the words that come out when you open your mouth
Just as an FYI to everyone: they won't tell you this, but you have the full 3 YEARS and 36,000 MILES to decide if you want an extended warranty!! You can buy it at ANY time during your factory warranty period, directly from Nissan. I personally am waiting to see if my car turns out to be a drama queen near the 36K, and if I have continual problems with certain things, then I'll spring for the extra warranty *THEN*.
We should have an NAH NorCal meet or something
You have to do your homework and you definetly did.
Vincent was low key and very helpful. I would see him again if I needed another car. The credit lady, OTOH, was a bit pushy on the dealer packs, which we refused.
An interesting thing happened tho... she was pushing us to buy some sort of tags to stick on various parts of the car, $250, I think it was, something she said would deter thieves. We said no, multiple times. She got up and left us alone. I'm thinking the office is bugged so we said nothing. A few minutes later she comes back and informs us she will give us the tags for free. I figure the car was already tagged and what she was waving in our faces were our copies. So we got those tags for free.
Wilson Bui was my salesperson. Really nice kid. Yes, I saw the credit lady in the little glass cubicle right next to ours, working on another couple. I also got offered the tags, but roundly rejected all of it. The quickest way to do it is to make it seem as if you agree to all of it, then just reject all of it together at the end instead of objecting the whole time through. It also shocks the manager
Another interesting note is that they were honest to their word; they told me to make sure to buy before the end of the month because the prices would go up March 1st (not as much pressure to sell at the beginning of the month). I thought they were just pushing to sell, but it looks like they did in fact go up by about $1,000 (my quote was $29,128 w/kickplates) but, you took the rebate, so you ended up saving about $300 over my price anyway. The choices were 3.9% for 60 months OR the rebate; I didn't have too big of a down payment, so I took the financing.
So, note to everyone, Stevens Creek Nissan stands behind their word, it seems; the Internet Sales team is made up of nice, laid-back straightforward people, and they stick to their numbers. Their credit people are pushy as hell, but I think that's everywhere (and to give poor ol Mark credit, he did let me be after I insisted once).
Enjoy, and congrats! :shades:
We went to the Altima Dealer first.
They had like 8 of them. I could go either way on getting a base one vs a loaded one. I usually get the loaded cars to get nicer interiors. But the base model looked pretty good. So we take the base model they had (Black with Charcoal interior) out for a ride. I absolutely hate the blond or light grey interiors of the Prius.
Overall Altima was pretty nice. It didn't drive as nice as our old 99 V6 passat but it wasn't bad.
So then we go and sit down and we tell him we only would consider dark interiors. So he puts 3 folders on his desk and walks away for a minute. I see none of them are the car we drove and wanted. They were all loaded.
He comes back and says the car we drove has already been swapped out to another dealer.
Then I ask what the price would be on the car anyway and on the loaded ones. I told him we were offered a Prius for $500.00 below invoice. No trade, No Loan.
He comes back and says invoice. He also said that was the FIRST ever, yeah right. And if we decide today we can still have the car that was supposed to be swapped out. I was very tempted. But my wife had not seen other cars yet.
So we passed on the deal. They extended the deal to 5PM saturday. Saying he had to call the other dealer before 5PM saturday to not come on Monday to pick it up (in NewYork).
Now thinking back on the weekend I wonder if the whole thing was a setup.
1) If the car was sold to another dealer why are they letting me drive it?
2) Seemed kind of odd that they could so easily back out of a swap they already agreed on.
3) He wins on both fronts pulling this game. I either buy the more expensive car or think I got what I "shouldn't get" by getting the car that is supposed to be swapped out.
I drive by the dealer everyday. If that car is there Tuesday morning I'll probably never buy a Nissan in my life time. I'm almost sure it was a setup. We are so gullable.
We did take out the Civic and Prius. Civic was sporty but I felt the most unsafe in it. The Prius actually drove smoother and quieter than the Altima.
My wife raised a good point though. I was well aware of the limitation with fold down rear seats. One purpose of getting the high mpg car was to use it instead of a gas guzzling SUV on trips from MA to NH on weekends. Which we do a lot of cross country skiing. There is no way to put skies in the Civc Hybrid or Altima Hybrid (I'm not dealing with roof racks, been there done that). I think we may be stuck with the ugly Prius with light grey boring interior. It did drive nice though.
I'll follow up with this on Tuesday on if the car is still there.