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Comments
I must be in the twilight zone. I own one and think that it is on par with Avalon and Maxima in terms of refinement. Go drive a true luxury make and tell me there isn't something "extra" there. Hyundai's 3.8 V6 cannot compete with Toyota's or even come come to a BMW inline 6. The one thing that I truely believe the Genesis has pegged are the interior materials and cabin noise levels. As for the overall driving experience, it just isn't there (and neither are the other models I mentioned). Its a great car, (good enough that I leased one) but I really think we should all stop trying to make it more than it is (a top of the line model for a mainstream brand).
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I haven't talked to any Genesis owners (in person, as I don't know any Genesis owners), nor have I seen objective surveys supporting or disapproving your statements so I think I would just stay silent on that. I am sure you were on solid footing when you made that statement?
that's one Genesis owner's statement that I can agree with 100%.
My definition of an "over priced" car is relative. You compare the size, quality, engineering, features, reliability, and warranty. Cars that are similar should cost within a few thousand of each other.
It's OK to buy an overpriced car. It isn't my style, but many people do it (I guess) to stroke their egos.
I agree, and I'm not trying to make it more than it is.
However, owners of both know more about it than you and me. I have to give more weight to their opinion.
I'll go along with that for now, however.... someone trading in a 5 year old+ luxury car for something brand new is likely to think the new is better simply because of how fast technology increases.
Case in point, I traded up from an 03 Avalon to an 06. The 06 was light years ahead in just about every aspect. The auto industry moves that fast.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I think most people who could afford and do splurge on all things luxury do not think about how pricey it is. Cars are never a good investment! They are the ultimate in depreciation... do we agree on that?
So your notion of VALUE and PRICE are two different things. Let's go into an analogy of women. If you love a woman and you marry her, you do so because of her VALUE to you. She is VALUABLE to her significant other. He esteems her highly. She's beautiful to him (although she may be butt ugly to others), he buys her gifts(flowers, chocolates, and "overpriced jewelry" all because he VALUES(and loves) her. VALUE can be very subjective. However, I think "overpriced" is a bit different.
Popcorn in the movie theaters are overpriced! Water in the desert may be overpriced. OVERPRICED is different from VALUE in my opinion. You wouldn't call your wife OVERPRICED would you? LOL... I guess we had some miscommunication there. In your estimation, people who opted not to buy the Genesis Sedan considers it to be overpriced. But the Genesis sold more vehicles than the Infiniti M and more than its Lexus counterpart. Would you say, "People who didn't buy the M and the GS consider them to be overpriced?" I bet you wouldn't because you singled out the Genesis Sedan.
I would venture as to say that there's a higher risk of something more expensive being overpriced than that which is less expensive. I'm not saying it's impossible for less expensive vehicles to be overpriced. I just don't see it when it comes to most Hyundai products. Hyundai is known to be a great value, best bang for the buck, "luxury for people who can't afford luxury" type company. They're trying to revolutionize the auto industry and so far it seems to be paying off.
It doesn't matter what your perception of value is. More and more people are starting to see that Hyundai is a good car for the money. Because the amount of Hyundai's sold are growing seemingly every month.
Your analogy about the diamond is flawed. Because automakers don't specialize in picking up diamonds. They don't specialize in winning lotto's. They invest engineering technology, manufacturing, designing vehicles, and ultimately selling them. Two different contexts.
In a purely business understanding, the diamond would be off the charts profit for me if I even sold it for half the market value. Because I didn't have to do much work for it. Do you pick up diamonds everyday off the street? Hyundai cranks out thousands of cars everyday. Two different scenarios... one more probable than the other.
I would agree with you there Millwood. I would add. "A low priced car delivering exceptional value can be EXTREMELY underpriced, while a high priced car delivering nothing but headaches is EXTREMELY overpriced."
Because that has been my experience thus far.... let me explain:
I used to own two Volvos, my dad owns a BMW(used to own a bunch of Buicks before then), and I've had experience with some other European cars. Not all of them are your definition of luxury. But some are.
I would say I've been very frugal with my Hyundai Elantra. It's an economy sedan and it doesn't have all the luxury features. But it does have sunroof, leather(not as good quality as other makes probably), among other features that usually come with luxury cars. I would not say my car is luxurious by any means. But it's very convenient and I like it because it has been dependable. I wish I could say the same for the Civic I used to own. It had electronic issues(power windows malfunction), transmission issues, and some other minor problems.
I would say I had bad experiences with other makes. Volkswagen was the worst(headache after headache). Honda, which is usually dependable(so I thought) I spent a lot of money for repairs. Buicks(LeSabre) was smooth but seems to break down all at once. BMW X3 costs an arm and a leg to maintain. Volvo was very hard to repair as well and the parts were very expensive to buy(or to find). So I would say, Hyundai wins in the value department. Japanese, American, Korean, and European vehicles were in the mix.
I would say, European vehicles are the most costly vehicles to fix and they break down more frequently than most others. Japanese aren't as expensive to maintain or fix, but still above that of Hyundai I think. The Elantra is 2005 with 110,000 miles on it. I haven't had any issues with the car thus far. Just regular maintenance and oil change was free for the first 100,000 miles at my dealership. Now I pay no more than $20 for oil change. Other maintenance fees are minimal in comparison to other makes it seems as well.
Now tell me what's the greater value Millwood?
Heh, you pick diamonds up in the dirt - pretty common rocks when you get right down to it. Go to that Arkansas state park and take your shovel. The only thing special about diamonds is the marketing. And they depreciate nicely too.
And some spouses are high maintenance; not sure if there's value there or not, lol.
Back to the Genesis, it continues to rack up allocades.
"The Genesis Coupe resembles other uber-expensive, flashy sports cars out there, but without the guilt of dipping into your kid’s college fund for a sports car. Keep your 529. Buy a Genesis Coupe."
Genesis Coupe Named “Just for Fun” Car of The Year By MotherProof.com
"This award recognizes the Hyundai Genesis as the vehicle best suited to meet the lifestyle needs of “the boss” including luxury features, driving refinement, styling and prestige all in an affordable package."
Genesis Names “Best Deal for the Boss” By Cars.Com
From The Financial, a news site out of Tbilisi, Georgia that likes to grab other's content it seems. :shades:
And then there's our own Karl Brauer's Genesis recommendation today - "massive value here; a premium luxury sedan that drives great for $40,000"
Karl on Cars: Too Many Great Cars to Buy
Speaking of all that, here's a link to a story about what Toyota is thinking about to lure customers back: Toyota Incentives?
Interesting stuff such as free maintenance, significantly increased rebates,
and a new warranty program that at least matches Hyundai's market-leading 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty
Gasp! :surprise:
I've seen them around at the dealership when I went in for maintenance. I've also seen the new Sonata's and Tucson's! I like the general direction Hyundai's going with their vehicle lineup. I might have to sell my car in a year or two just to buy another Hyundai. Just waiting for it to break down so I can have a legitimate excuse to buy one. Should I be impractical and splurge on a Genesis Coupe?
btw, I know keeping my vehicle 'til it dies is the best way to make the most of my money! I'm all payed off and I'm bored... typical Westernized consumerism I guess!
They're the cheap imitation and they "HAVE" to offer these warranties because their cars are so low in quality!
I remember people used to say that. I'm interested to see if these people will come out of the wood works when Toyota launches this program. Where's the double standard?
btw. I think GM/Ford were the recipients of much of the lost sales from Toyota last month. Personally, I hope that continues and these companies bring back some jobs to the U.S. instead of using Japanese engines in their Fusions. Are American car companies going to rise from the ashes once again? Hope so!
What's funny is that it doesn't sound like his wife doesn't much care what she drives. She sounds like a very intelligent person.
I can beat that. My 2000 Elantra Wagon went just over 175K miles with me paying $0 in non routine maintence.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Uhm... how are the cars with the Genesis emblems "extra nice" compared to a Genesis sedan with the Hyundai logo on the trunk lid? :confuse:
How much more would you pay for a Genesis sedan with a Genesis emblem on it vs. a Hyundai emblem (no other change)?
When I see the cars with the winged emblem drive around, it just looks right. I think it complements the klingon grill instead of having nothing at the front of the hood.
Does that make sense? It's just a slight visual enhancement. If you're spending 33-40 grand on something, you might as well get the version you like to look at! I see no problem with that.
Oh my, I guess it's getting time to trade her in. I can't stand all that high maintenance cost
and a new warranty program that at least matches Hyundai's market-leading 10-year, 100,000-mile powertrain warranty
Good!
The 10 year warranty and discounts would put Toyota squarely back on my shopping list. Maybe Honda will even follow suit.
That would just be direct costs, add indirect costs and that "no more than half" gets mighty close to 100%.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If some people in this discussion get what they are asking for, you (and all other Genesis buyers) will be paying thousands more. Such is the price of a special emblem.
How much do those Genesis emblems cost, anyway? Maybe $30?
Shouldn't we give that credit to Chrysler? Weren't they the first ones that broke the old 12 month 12K miles?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Anyhow, yeah, I know where you're going with this and I agree! I personally don't think it's worth that much more! The smart rich folk who can afford these lux/brand names are not smart enough to know that their cars are re-badged Toyota/Honda/Nissans. I'm surprised to find out how many people really don't know these facts!
I actually like the simple sensibility of the Hyundai commercials these days and half of me hopes Hyundai keeps the Genesis badge within the Hyundai family. Another part of me thinks Americans are too image-conscious to be "caught dead" in a Hyundai. And they may not purchase one due to that fact alone. Conflicted anyone? lol
Hope they make the right decision.
With Toyota's problems, I'd have to think long and hard about a badge I'd rather have on a car than Hyundai. Ford, maybe--they are pressing the right buttons of late. And I love that retro-looking badge. But Lexus? Infiniti? MB? BMW? Even Honda (with problems of their own)? Nope. I wouldn't pay a dollar more for any of those.
Porsche? OK, maybe Porsche...
Make the badge for Genesis and just sell it at the Hyundai Dealerships! That may keep the pretentious snobs away from the cars and people will be able to look at the Genesis and (like the New Orleans Saints) say, "Who Dat?" or "What's Dat?"
They can be pleasantly and Hyundai will always be synonymous with Genesis. What have they to hide after all? Jay Leno might not buy one anytime soon but we don't want him anyhow. LOL That way, Hyundai will always be luxury for people who can't afford "luxury"
Yep sometime in the eighties they came out with 5yr/50K powertrain, then eventually they stepped that up to 7yr/70K.
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
I have no sympathy for such people. Let them spend way too much because they're too lazy to educate themselves, or too stubborn or prideful to change. Doesn't hurt me!
Check this out. It should make some purist heads spin:
http://www.autospies.com/news/2011-Hyundai-Sonata-Outperforms-Lexus-ES350-AND-Me- rcedes-C300-In-Independent-Tests-51955/
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve
They'll be pushed a little further down the trough, but they're not in any real danger yet. They could reduce their prices 30% and still make a tidy profit. I think that's why some people have such an abiding hatred for Genesis. It makes them feel like they paid too much for their luxury car.
I haven't seen any real hatred for the Genesis, myself.
Me too, especially the part about the trough. :P
But hey, you probably work hard for your money, so spend is as you wish. Don't let anyone tell you how you should spend it. At the same time, believe your own eyes, have an open mind, and don't miss out on a lot of good things.
why should they? they are the luxury market and really have no problem selling about everything they wish to make - vehicles that tend to be the best by any definition.
The luxury market and the luxury mfgrs are NOT about selling commodities and their products tend not to be evaluated in those terms - they leave that to the Hyundais of the world and let them deal with the vagaries of the mass market.
An abiding hatred of Genesis makes no sense, an abiding hatred of Hyundai - perhaps by someone that might have owned one 20 or so years ago is, however, understandable
To get my business, and possibly that of 50 million more like me?
They don't want your business....
true luxury mfgrs understand that their market is not 50 million :surprise: buyers like you , they cater more specifically to those that want the best - and are willing to pay for it.
If your perceptions of value will not allow you to spend that kind of money AND you are that willing to compromise on what is generally agreed to be the best - so be it - you'll likely never own a luxury car.
It's a good thing too, because they're not getting it.
It's fine for car makers to make 33% profit, and it's their right. But it's our right to not participate in their games.
specifically to those that want the best - and are willing to pay for it.
The best? In what way? By how much? Am I going to pay 20-30% more for a car because it's 2% better, and not even better in every way?
No sir.
From an accounting perspective I cannot imagine any manufacturer making that kind of gross per unit. If you factor in materials, labor, warranties, special leasing/financing, development, testing, advertising, dealer spiffs, etc, etc. IMO its most likely barely 3%
2023 Mercedes EQE 350 4Matic / 2022 Ram 1500 Bighorn, Built to Serve