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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    MB, BMW, and Lexus might as well start closing dealers now! Time for Toyota and Honda to start drafting bankruptcy papers! :P
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited February 2010
    MB, BMW, and Lexus might as well start closing dealers now! Time for Toyota and Honda to start drafting bankruptcy papers!

    They'll be pushed a little further down the trough, but they're not in any real danger yet. They could reduce their prices 30% and still make a tidy profit. I think that's why some people have such an abiding hatred for Genesis. It makes them feel like they paid too much for their luxury car.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    I was being facetious, of course.

    I haven't seen any real hatred for the Genesis, myself.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    Good come back LOL
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    I was being facetious, of course

    Me too, especially the part about the trough. :P

    But hey, you probably work hard for your money, so spend is as you wish. Don't let anyone tell you how you should spend it. At the same time, believe your own eyes, have an open mind, and don't miss out on a lot of good things.
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    They could reduce their prices 30% and still make a tidy profit.
    why should they? they are the luxury market and really have no problem selling about everything they wish to make - vehicles that tend to be the best by any definition.
    The luxury market and the luxury mfgrs are NOT about selling commodities and their products tend not to be evaluated in those terms - they leave that to the Hyundais of the world and let them deal with the vagaries of the mass market.
    An abiding hatred of Genesis makes no sense, an abiding hatred of Hyundai - perhaps by someone that might have owned one 20 or so years ago is, however, understandable
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    why should they?

    To get my business, and possibly that of 50 million more like me?
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    50 million more like me
    They don't want your business....
    true luxury mfgrs understand that their market is not 50 million :surprise: buyers like you , they cater more specifically to those that want the best - and are willing to pay for it.
    If your perceptions of value will not allow you to spend that kind of money AND you are that willing to compromise on what is generally agreed to be the best - so be it - you'll likely never own a luxury car.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited February 2010
    They don't want your business....

    It's a good thing too, because they're not getting it.

    It's fine for car makers to make 33% profit, and it's their right. But it's our right to not participate in their games.

    specifically to those that want the best - and are willing to pay for it.

    The best? In what way? By how much? Am I going to pay 20-30% more for a car because it's 2% better, and not even better in every way?

    No sir.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    It's fine for car makers to make 33% profit

    From an accounting perspective I cannot imagine any manufacturer making that kind of gross per unit. If you factor in materials, labor, warranties, special leasing/financing, development, testing, advertising, dealer spiffs, etc, etc. IMO its most likely barely 3%

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    It's fine for car makers to make 33% profit, and it's their right. But it's our right to not participate in their games.
    sounding like you are begrudging a manufacturer's profit at some level you deem excessive. That kind of thing is certainly your right simply because it is your money - but I am curious- what happens when the Indians (and Chinese) get over here and expose the fact that those horrendous profit margins have been made by supposedly virtuous Hyundai for years and years. Imagine that, Hyundai's been ripping you off - maybe you should demand a rebate NOW ;)
  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    From an accounting perspective I cannot imagine any manufacturer making that kind of gross per unit
    actually direct costs (material and labor) tend to be a lot less than that - it is costs like administration/advertising/warranty/utlilites/taxes/health and retirement programs etc. and other indirect costs that might leave a 3% NET out of a maybe 50% gross. And if you are unlucky enough to be burdened with nasty labor contracts as well as being decidedly top heavy - then we all know what happens. :cry:
  • snakeweaselsnakeweasel a Certified Edmunds Poster.Posts: 11,713
    they cater more specifically to those that want the best - and are willing to pay for it.

    I really don't know if it is the best, talking to many owners of those cars (both here and in real life) and they seem far more prone to issues than the more "mainstream" cars.

    If I can get well over 100K trouble free miles from a $12K Hyundai I better well be able to get it on a $60K Benz.

    The sign said "No shoes, no shirt, no service", it didn't say anything about no pants.

  • captain2captain2 Posts: 3,971
    If I can get well over 100K trouble free miles from a $12K Hyundai I better well be able to get it on a $60K Benz
    would be nice if that's the way it worked but the opposite is more likely the case. Murphy's law if you will - the more complicated anything is the more likely it is to break. The recurring problem in particularily the German premium brands lately - electronic gremlins in all these advanced electronically controlled performance and safety enhancement systems.
    As it this would apply to that $12k Hyundai? Expect better reliability from that than you would from a $45k Genesis. Reliability, quality, and technology are often unrelated.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 5,025
    And if you are unlucky enough to be burdened with nasty labor contracts as well as being decidedly top heavy - then we all know what happens.

    Yep... present day GM ;)

    1999 Chevy S10 / 2004 Merc Grand Marquis / 2012 Buick LaCrosse

  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited February 2010
    If I can get well over 100K trouble free miles from a $12K Hyundai I better well be able to get it on a $60K Benz.

    Good luck! :)

    Cars that force you to bring it back and forth to the dealer and spend big bucks are not luxurious.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Here are a group of recent video clips from Hyundai America's CEO.

    http://www.hyundaimedialive.com/sonata/webcast.php

    John Krafick in billing Equus (In clip no. 2) as a "Customer service, customer satisfaction halo car". That should make the service divas happy, and make launching a luxury division less likely.
  • steverstever YooperlandPosts: 40,219
    The Equus does sounds more like an incubator car as opposed to using it for a luxury division.

    "Another big move for Hyundai comes with the 2011 Equus, a full-blown luxury sedan to challenge establishment stalwarts such as the BWM 7 Series, Lexus LS and Mercedes S-Class. Launching later this year, Krafcik said the Equus is going to be the torch-bearer for a new level of customer-interaction strategies for Hyundai.

    The not-inexpensive Equus will be "a customer-satisfaction halo for the [Hyundai] brand," Krafcik said. The customer-interaction aspects surrounding the launch of the Equus in the U.S. market will be "a pretty interesting experiment," Krafcik promised, adding, "stay tuned -- it's going to be pretty cool."

    Hyundai Spending Big To Launch 2011 Sonata; Promises Unique "Experiment" With Equus (AutoObserver)

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  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    edited February 2010
    I'm hoping one of you guys will be an early adopter and let us know what the "customer satisfaction/interaction" program is all about. :)

    It will be fun to speculate on, and get the real story in dribbles until September.
  • toyetoye Posts: 351
    According to Fintail I should be the one to go to on having the information about the upcoming launch of the Equus. LOL
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    Unless they facelift that thing, I don't think even you can spin it into the S/7er/LS competitor the bandwagoning media is already claiming.

    As it is, it looks like the prestige car for someone who runs a third world sweatshop.
  • acdiiacdii Posts: 753
    I am going there tomorrow, should be interesting since all the mentioned lines will be there to compare to. If I remember, I will bring my camera.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    As it is, it looks like the prestige car for someone who runs a third world sweatshop.

    That's usually a bigger MB or BMW.

    Seriously, I doubt the Korean model will be released stateside without a facelift. Hyundai's California designers are on a roll, so you can bet it wll be fresh.
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    I dunno...that Equus gives me the "copycar" vibe in some ways.

    Well, IMO, the Genesis sedan isn't fresh (the coupe is much more so)...so I guess time will tell.
  • bobadbobad Posts: 1,587
    Well, IMO, the Genesis sedan isn't fresh

    You show me any normal car (not a show car), and I'll show you styling cues that have already been used and re-used. There are only about 100,000 permutations, ind combinations, and all have been used. So your "isn't fresh" isn't fresh. :blush:
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,596
    edited February 2010
    That's a line used by apologists or fanboys who don't want to admit that Asian makes in general over the past decade or two have not been good at creating original styling themes.

    Would the Genesis sedan use a derivation of the Hofmeister kink if not for BMW? The only original part on it is the Star Trek grille.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    You must realize that the reason Hyundai decided to use that grille style is that they wanted everyone who saw it to shout, "Genesis! I want it!!"

    If you don't understand that comment, you have no business referring to Star Trek in any discussion of the Genesis. ;)
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    if I'm not mistaken, the Genesis was no unstable it blew itself up in Star Trek 3! :P ;) lol!

    so I don't know if you really want to use a Star Trek analogy here, because it doesn't bode well then for the Genesis by Hyundai! ;)
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,695
    edited February 2010
    You are mistaken. You too have no business making any reference here to Star Trek, as your previous comment proves. Better stick to cars. :P
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    edited February 2010
    take a chill pill backy, was just kidding around :D ; you really need to lighten up ;) ;

    in fact if you read what I said carefully, I was saying NOT to use Star Trek as an analogy in describing the Genesis because Genesis in Star Trek Exploded, and the last time I checked I haven't seen any Genesis's falling apart or exploding so I think your okay :D !
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