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Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems

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Comments

  • bryan772bryan772 Member Posts: 6
    I think I'll try bringing the car to the other Honda dealer in town and have them try to apply the update. The one I'm currently going do tried re-loading it with no change, perhaps the copy of the firmware that they are using is bad. Worth a try, I'll see how it goes.
  • ativarativar Member Posts: 3
    Bought the 2005 new in Oct '04. On a trip in '05 and was rearended in OKC stopped at a stop light. While car was drivable, it needed to have extensive rearend repair. Once back home, after completing our trip, the car sat in the driveway for three days before it could be accepted into the Honda body shop. During that time, the IMA battery failed. Honda replaced it, but could not determine what caused the failure. It is now Nov '11, and on the 1st I had a check engine lite come on; took it into the dealer, and they said it was a sofware update that needed to be implemented. Did that, and now, Nov 22 the check engine lite, as well as the IMA battery lite or on, and the Honda dealer says we need ANOTHER new battery. Car has 72k+ on it, and is now on the 3d IMA battery. It never gave us the MPG that was adv't, but at 37 city 41 hwy I wasn't going to complain real loud - it was better than anything else I've had in a while. I've owned Honda's since the '67 model, and tend to replace them about every 6-8 years, and this is the first one I've had that has had to go back for a single item! Also own an '11 Insight which is working just fine!
  • tblackleytblackley Member Posts: 1
    OK, here is some information about getting a software upgrade on your 2004 civic hybrid. We got the O2 sensor update then 3 days later the IMA and CEL light came on. I checked the codes (1600 1433) and reset it. Every thing was fine again (no recalls, etc). Then 2 weeks later the complete IMA system went off line with the IMA and CEL lights on with the only code of 1600.

    Went to the dealer and found out the O2sensor update was a 2 phase update with only the first part applied. The dealer told admitted to the mistake and re-applied both updates. The car (so far) is now back to normal.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    P1433 denotes that the battery's capacity has dropped below 10% of its' original 6.5Ah

    In other words, the battery is worn out.

    Resetting the codes forces the car to re-evaluate the battery and it can initially take some time to return he same codes.

    You need a new battery.
  • nyhondanyhonda Member Posts: 13
    I just had my IMA battery replaced under warranty at 56000 miles. With the batteries failing back in Sept I took a 2200 mile trip including mountain terrain. I was amazed I averaged 46 mpg on this trip. My batteries failed about 2 weeks ago and Honda agreed to replace only if I would do the software update. I resisted but was told I had to get the flash or Honda would not honor anymore warranty which is still another 24000 miles. I had no choice but to agree...I have put 1700 miles on since and watched my mileage go to 39mph...the lowest ever. I fine in the city the auto stop works much better but on the hiway I get very little boost. Nothing like I got when the car was new. In other words so far my mileage has dropped from 43-46 to 39...very disappointing.
  • centerfield007centerfield007 Member Posts: 3
    I have read many posts about the HCH 8yr-80,000 mile warranty on the IMA battery but I am unclear about one point. I want to know if the warranty is transferable to the second owner.I bought an 06 back in 09 and the IMA light has just started to light up. The code was poa7f.I hate going to dealers unless I know what I am talking about. I don`t want to start with them unless I know the battery is covered under this warranty. Also where can I find this information in writing outside of Honda ?
  • jjsparksjjsparks Member Posts: 8
    The warranty on the battery is a manufacturers warranty and stays with the vehicle regardless of the owner. In some some states the warranty is 150,000 miles. Only time I've heard of it being voided is if the car is salvaged after a wreck.
  • sak6sak6 Member Posts: 8
    I have a 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid Automatic at 107k miles on it. I was driving Home and all of sudden in middle of drive, IMA and CEL light came on. So I went direct to Autozone to check code. The Codes were, P1600 and P1449.
    The Vehicle runs fine with Charge and Assist happening, but the Hybrid battery charge level indication is showing full and goes to half way and to full. I did check on web for P1449 stating battery issue, so should i need to replace it completely? how much usually cost?
    Should i go to dealer?

    Note: Prior to this 3 months earlier in August, I had P1600, P1601, P1435 and P1570 and replaced with a MCM module and everything was working fine since then. Now this issue.

    Any suggestions please how to proceed?
  • viawviaw Member Posts: 34
    i complained for a 2nd time with Honda USA and they wouldn't do anything about doing another diagnostic because i was getting recals like 8-10 times a day. i filed a small claims a week later and they called back and said "hey, you willing to take your car to dealership to have it checked out since the last time was in january?".
    uh, why didn't you A-holes agree to it before a lawsuit?
    well, i am going to go with the technician for the test drive and have them drive it for an HOUR and experience the crap that i experience. the lack of IMA assist during recal, recal many, many times (up to every 7-10 min), lack of efficiency, all the crap!!!
    i want him to try and accelerate onto freeway traffic like i do when i had my family and risking their lives!
  • nyhondanyhonda Member Posts: 13
    The warranty will not be honored if a new ima battery is installed and the software update is not done.
  • nyhondanyhonda Member Posts: 13
    http://www.hchsettlement.com/FrequentlyAskedQuestions.aspx

    this is a joke..u are to be given 100 to 200.00 depending which class u fall into

    if u sell or trade in ur HCH on another Honda u get a rebate of 1000 to 1500 depending on which class u belong in.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    2003-2005 Civics are a different car than 2006-2009 Civics. The "update" that the 2006-2009 owners are having trouble with is not the same as the maintenance update they put in your car. The latest update for the 2003-2005 Civics concentrates on keeping the battery half full. Gas mileage is affected slightly if you tend to drive fast or lots of local driving or lots of acceleration (if your battery isn't normally more than half full). This is just simply due to it applying more regen than it used to. Gentle highway driving should be unchanged, and the total mpg drop shouldn't be more than a few mpg.
    Typically, a CVT owner should see a drop from 60 combined to about 55 combined with a low of 45 local. This update is a general battery longevity change that was also introduced into the 2000-2006 Insight.

    The software update for 2006-2009 Civics is essentially the 2010-2011 software applied to the earlier cars. It significantly affects the way the car performs whenever the battery is low, and this in turn severely affects the mpg of some drivers, while affecting others not at all. It all depends on how the car is driven.

    Now as to why your battery failed: it has become apparent over the last few years that Honda's battery system is extremely sensitive to be left sitting - undriven. The short version is that every time you leave the car parked for a few days it does a little bit of damage to the battery and this damage in cumulative. The time it sat in your driveway should not have been enough to cause the issue, but your car probably had a severely imbalanced cell (of the 120) and when you restarted the car, it was so far out of balance that a P1568 error was thrown. Your dealer doesn't have a clue about the IMA system, so they'd have no way of knowing why it failed.

    Do you know your new error codes?

    BTW, your warranty is 84,000 miles, not 80,000.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    The dealer was telling the truth about one thing: low rolling resistance tires do make a large difference in mpg. LRR tires typically account for a 5 mpg difference on Civics and tire pressure another 3 mpg. It is safe on all tires to inflate them as high as the "max pressure" number on the side of the tire. Typically that is 44 psi (some are 34). The burst pressure is over 200 psi.

    Car manufacturers specify lower pressure because is make a softer ride and that sells cars.

    Higher pressure in the tires will increase mpg and possibly your traction, but will make a harsher ride. However, you can try it, and if you don't like it, just let some out until you find an acceptable pressure.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    P1433 is a warning (not failure) that the IMA battery is degraded and below 10% of its original capacity - it's worn out. The symptoms are a normal-acting battery that is very quickly depleted and recharged (because it doesn't hold much charge). The dealer should have replaced it. Resetting the system will make the car forget about it and force it to re-evaluate the battery which can take some time. Unfortunately, a battery that is that weak is susceptible to becoming unbalanced, so typically a P1433 is followed by a total IMA failure about 2 months later.

    The O2 sensor update that you had done is a software update to the ECU (by the passenger's feet). IMA updates reprogram the MCM (behind the back seat). There was no reason for the dealer to update the MCM, so he probably didn't.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    The warranty is on the car, not the owner.

    P0A7F is a "replace the battery" code equivalent to a P1433 error. Get it done (free) ASAP.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    P1435 and P1570 are problems with the IMA computer or wiring and are not related to the battery. P1449 is a battery failure. P1600 and P1601 just mean the IMA light has been turned on.

    You need to repair or replace your battery soon. A dealer is expensive, but there are alternatives out there. Either search on the web, or email me for more information.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    This is why I always chuckle when people get all worked up about a car problem and start thinking about class action suits. Honestly, I get a couple of notices in the mail every year to join in some class action or other that someone has started somewhere about a product I own. I now just toss them in the garbage. Right off the top, the settlement, when spread over the number of members "in the class" is pretty much always VERY small. (I got $1.26 as compensation for a small issue with a washing machine once, no "fix" was ever done to the machines, and that was the end of that) The only ones making money are the lawyers, and all the fuss pretty much leads to higher product prices. Face it, if you were Honda and just had to pay out a settlement to a group of people who just "won", how would YOU get that money back?
  • grunn320grunn320 Member Posts: 16
    For less expensive products you may be right, settlement may not even be worth the effort. However, when you pay $24000. for a car and are given an update, without warning of the possible outcome, that not only doesn't improve the product but reduces performance, gas mileage and even makes it unsafe in certain driving conditions and the manufacturer refuses to fix the problem, a law suit may be your last and only resort. Look how many dissatisfied Honda customers are on this forum and there are other forums on the net expressing similar problems with Honda. This is a wide spread problem and must be addressed. I'll never buy another Honda.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    But even with a car, look at the post I responded to. That settlement is going to be between $100 and $200. That's a handful of fill ups at the pump. The owners "won". Do they feel better?

    The problem I see is that people don't look at a lawsuit as a last resort, but it seems to be the first thing they come up with. As you point out the forums are full of complaints about all brands of vehicles (sort of the nature of message boards, nobody comes on to post "My car is just fine") and while some concerns ARE issues that may need to be addressed by the manufacturers, a lot of them are just "normal" problems that come with car ownership. Over on the pickups forums, I was amazed to read about a "problem" that a user was describing as a "manufacturing defect". Seems that if he drove his pickup truck over a certain stretch of road at a certain speed, the truck would "hobby horse" and bounce up and down. I have no doubt it was happening. It's happened to me with cars and trucks. It's called uneven pavement and going just the right speed so the bumps in the road come at just the right moment as your suspension is recovering from the last bump. But of course, it HAD to be addressed by the manufacturer and it MUST be a defect, and there ought to be a recall, yada, yada.

    Mileage concerns are particularly quirky. That "your mileage may vary" phrase is only too true. I've ALWAYS met or exceeded the EPA numbers on my cars. Probably a combination of my driving style and the conditions I drive in. But with the same model cars, some people don't get close to the number and think that means a problem with the car.
  • centerfield007centerfield007 Member Posts: 3
    Thanks for your advice.I made an appointment with the dealer today.I hope I don`t run into some of the issues with the dealer that I have read about in this forum.
  • grunn320grunn320 Member Posts: 16
    My complaint is based on car performance and safety prior to the update vs after the update, not a change in my driving habits. Loved the car before, not so much since. Irregardless of settlement amount consumer receives, the point is Honda could pay millions to settle. Lawsuit settlements may be the only weapon consumers have to keep giant corporations like Honda from becoming even more insensitive to customer complaints in the future. This is my last post on the subject.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,148
    I can understand your thinking. However, keep in mind that Honda might not be so averse to such settlements. Conducting a recall and replacing defective parts may have cost them more than they paid out in the settlement. Obviously, I have no way of knowing that this was the case... just speculating.

    If any of these suits resulted in the companies actually FIXING the problem (really making it right), I'd be all for them.

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  • nyhondanyhonda Member Posts: 13
    "Mileage concerns are particularly quirky. That "your mileage may vary" phrase is only too true. I've ALWAYS met or exceeded the EPA numbers on my cars. Probably a combination of my driving style and the conditions I drive in. But with the same model cars, some people don't get close to the number and think that means a problem with the car."

    Obviously u do not own a HCH with a bad/weakening battery and a change of software....u see the software algorithms changed when and how the battery aids the small 1.3 engine. Without the battery functioning as it was originally the EPA "estimates" are NOT based upon the car as an original HCH

    Your arrogance sounds like the Honda corporation standard answer. Even you and ur exceptionable gas pedal dexterity would fail without a proper IMA battery.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    If you do, contact me via email and I'll help you fight it and get the warranty service you are entitled to.
  • Ogre_GEVOgre_GEV Member Posts: 263
    Regarding your comment about gas pedal dexterity and economy with a failing battery, I can tell you through experience that any IMA based car requires different driving styles with a good battery, failing battery (which produces a net drag) or NO battery.

    Just this fall, I drove a 2001 Insight with a new battery 5700 miles in 8 days of driving crossing the country, the Rockies and the Sierra Nevadas. With AC on and 85 mph highway speeds, I averaged 62. The same car averaged 72 from Wisconsin to NYC in the summer.

    I also drove a 2000 Insight with no battery at all 1200 miles in a day and a half (Tampa-Atlanta-NYC) at 65 mph with AC and averaged 64 mph. This same car with a new battery installed gets about 75 mpg highway.

    Around town the car gets 50 with no battery and 55 with, but you really have to drive it very differently (the insight has a 1 liter engine).

    What is the EPA?

    For the 2001: 48/60
    For the 2000: 49/61

    Similar test with a 2004 Civic hybrid (CVT) with non-LRR tires:
    45 highway with battery, 42 highway without.
    42 local with battery, 40 without.
    35 local with battery if my wife drives it. She gets 40 highway.
    Other 2004 CVT Civic Hybrids I've driven with good batteries and correct tires: 60 highway, 50 local.

    EPA 39/43

    So yes, your mileage may vary, but the battery isn't the biggest factor - driving style is.
  • centerfield007centerfield007 Member Posts: 3
    Thank you for your offer to help,but it looks like I won`t need it. I got a call from the dealer yesterday. They said what I believe is the truth that my battery was degraded and needed replacing.They said the car was not drivable and they are ordering a new battery and will install it under the warranty.It was a five minute call with no hassle at all.I want to thank you again for all your comments and advice in this forum.I learned a great deal about hybrids and my car which helped me take action.
  • viawviaw Member Posts: 34
    edited December 2011
    good for you centerfield. here's my story in a snapshot - just got off the phone with the dealer and honda america:
    complained to honda over a year ago right before and after the software fix (~90k miles, so i was out of "regular" warranty, but still good under Cali warranty). the dealer diagnosed that there was no issue, went to arbitration, and lost cuz they said the recal does "occur" occasionally..ok, whatever. so i finally decided to say 'f' it and filed a small claims court as the recals were up to 8-10 times per day. a week before filing the claim, i called honda and they said that they would not pay for a diagnostic. only after filing a small claims court, 'oh, would you mind bringing your car in and we'll pay for it?'...[non-permissible content removed]-hole$. so i got the call back from the service manager and he said, well, the battery charge is down to 23% and that the threshold for the light to turn on is 20%. well now...isn't that what i've been telling honda all this time that the car isn't running what it's designed to? well, the dealer (IMO) screwed up the first time cuz they said that they could not get a % level of usable battery....that could've saved me a year's worth of additional pain. well, honda authorized the replacement of the IMA (which i have not yet authorized to go forward with), but i am happy that this is being done. i have almost 6 years at 115k miles, so the new 3year/36k would more or less match the 10 year/150k from the cali warranty. if i were you folks, i would file a small claims court (if still under warranty) and force their hand to have them pay for your diagnostic and at the same time, make sure they give a print screen on the usable charge on your vehicle. bye and good luck to you folks.
    so in a sense, i tried all avenues for honda to investigate my problem, it did take a small claims court filing to get them to investigate more. i had videos and everything for the court to show the problem if needed. basically, if you bought a computer and it crashed once a month or even once a week, no big deal, that's part of a computer (and the same is said in the manual about the battery drain). but when it happens once a day and progresses to every 10 minutes up to 8-10x's a day, then it's a problem and you would say the same with your computer having to reboot so many times. there's a bug and it needs to be fixed.
  • paul2211paul2211 Member Posts: 1
    I just purchased a 2006 HCH and I am wondering if the software update was done. Is there a way to check for it somewhere on the screen or anywhere else? I certainly am hoping that it hasn't been done. I do not seem to have any issues with the floating bars or poor acceleration at any time, although I have been doing almost exclusively city driving, so I am not sure what mileage I should be getting. Is there some way to check on it? I got it from a dealer and it is without maintenance records. Thank you for the information.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    Not sure how to find out if it got the update but you should be getting mid-30's mpg city driving. According to the original EPA Estimates for the car it was about 40 mpg but that was inflated. If you're getting 28 to 31 mpg or so I'd say it had the update. That's what I get on my 2007 which had the update.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    Thanks for your post. I have video also, a and my battery recals every 10 miles or so also. I will try small claims! Thanks. (I'm in California also).
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    The tech bulletin that calls for the update states that a punch mark will be added to the VIN that is under the hood. However, this may not be reliable. I had the update but they did not add the punch mark.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    Suspicious!! Why can't I find it. I got an e-mail update but the original post is not here? Hmmm.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    edited December 2011
    Nothing suspicious at all. The Edmunds forums cannot be used to organize legal actions and posts along those lines are removed. All part of the Member Agreement that we all agreed to when we first became forums members here.
  • inmyhumbleopinmyhumbleop Member Posts: 24
    OK. Thanks for the explanation! Yesterday my car practically revved to the red zone just trying to merge into freeway traffic. Today it revved to 5000 just trying to get to 45 mph on the freeway. 55,000k 2007 Honda.
    I personally know about class actions - they do mainly benefit the lawyers. I got a class action check for $18.00 2 weeks ago - some kind of foreign transaction bank fee settlement. I've only been overseas twice in the last 10 years or so. I must have really been ripped off - LOL.
  • genebeleygenebeley Member Posts: 1
    I had better luck. When my hybrid electric battery needed replacing at 120,000 miles, they told me the good news was Honda would replace it free! "Why?" I asked. "Because Honda just increased the warrantee to 10 years or 150,000 miles, whichever comes first."

    Hope this helps you and many others.

    Another time, when I was told I might need a new transmission, they called and asked if they could try something different. They tried flushing it out about five times with oil, and that fixed it. The cost of this was around $200, versus over $1000-$1500, so overall, I've been extremely happy with Honda. My only gripe now is the over $100 an hour labor rate that I can no longer afford. All of these car repair places are chasing away their customers--especially us senior citizens in the new Great Depression with rates like this. Many car dealers have already gone out of business before admitting this mistake.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I wonder if this extended warranty would apply to 2006 models and if the State of residence matters.
  • howardthowardt Member Posts: 1
    Can someone please help me understand if there is a Honda warranty on the HCH IMA battery. I have a 2005 Honda Civic Hybrid purchased in April 2005 with 65K miles?

    Suggest how I communicate with Honda and what I am likely to expect when I bring the vehicle to the dealer.

    Thanks!
  • jerrysnbjerrysnb Member Posts: 4
    Check your owner's manual. I know that in mine, there is an 8-year 100000 mile warranty. In some states, that is extended by law to 10 years and 150000 miles; but you should be well within the limit.
  • dowjddowjd Member Posts: 14
    Hey dontsettle,

    I have a 2009 HCH and have had the same problems as everyone else. In the first year of purchasing the car I already had a battery go bad. Here is a synopsis of my HCH experience:

    Post #937
    1. Purchased Feb 2009
    2. Got 43-52mpg highway & 43mpg highway/city
    3. August 2009 mileage decreased to 43 highway & 39 highway/city
    4. IMA light on Nov 2009, software upgrade
    5. Poor to no assist, battery drops to 1 bar, averages 4-6 bars, Auto Stop is random
    6. Mileage down to 39 highway & 37 highway/city
    7. IMA light on Dec 2009, new battery installed.
    8. Mileage 37-39 highway & 34-36 highway/city.
    9. Dec 2010, IMA light again. Honda software update.
    10. Car maintains 4-6 bars, Mileage 38 highway & 36-38 city/highway, Auto Stop more frequent, Assist more frequent but ceases above 3000RPM.

    Post #952
    My local Honda dealer (Visalia Honda... Thanks to them for ackowledging) today (3/2/11) acknowledged they are experiencing a lot of battery problems/replacements and have advised Honda USA that it is not poor driving habits of its customers. I advised them that I am paying the price of a hybrid, but getting the performance of a regular Civic.

    Additional: Upon vehicle pick up. Battery recal, performance improved. It appeared Honda performed off record software update or downgrade.

    Should HCH owners opt-out now or wait till Jan 2012 case is finalized?
  • missdismayedmissdismayed Member Posts: 16
    You can expect a variety of responses -- all of which have been mentioned here in previous posts -- and none of which might be of real help to your particular vehicle/dealer/service department, etc. As I am reading more and more of these posts it is obvious that there are many options, some work and some don't, but the bottom line is you will either keep your HCH or get rid of it.

    Either way, the evidence points to the fact that the HCH 2000 and up have IMA battery problems, dealers/service depts/Honda know about the problems, and have year by year moved farther away from fixing it with their software upgrades and/or extended mileage warranties to outright denying there is a problem of any kind and just throwing their hands up while they open the cash register and wait for you to write a check.

    To put it bluntly - you're over a barrel and we all know what happens next...
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    The Edmunds forums cannot be used to organize legal actions or to drive traffic to websites. Please do not make posts along these lines as they will have to be removed.
  • ativarativar Member Posts: 3
    It is fascinating. American Honda, in the words of their customer support: "We do not do business by mail, only by telephone. If you have a question that you do not want answered by telephone, refer to our manual!" Now, is that Customer Service?!?!?! I sincerely hope that someone from Honda America upper management is monitoring these, cause this is not the type of response I would expect from a company doing business in America!
    OH, in case you were wondering what this about: Quick reprise; on 3d IMA battery for '05 Civic, and wanting to just have the question answered; why original battery is good for 8 yr/80K miles, but replacement batteries are only good until the car reaches 8 yr/80K.
    Doesn't seem reasonable to me.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    why original battery is good for 8 yr/80K miles, but replacement batteries are only good until the car reaches 8 yr/80K.

    Because they do not start your warranty over at replacement. If you pay for a new part, then they will give you warranty on that part.
  • dontsettledontsettle Member Posts: 2
    You might want to share your experience with Honda's spokesperson Chris Martin - chris_martin@ahm.honda.com
  • hondahybriddlshondahybriddls Member Posts: 1
    12.28.2011

    I am taking my 2009 Civic Hybrid into to John Eagle Honda in Dallas, TX today. Same IMA issue as others have noted, except my mileage is only 42,000. I will let everyone know the dealer's response as it unfolds.

    My Owner's Manual warranty says Honda pays for only 60% of the new battery cost after 36 months and that I must pay the cost of installation. I bought the car on 9.30.2008 so I am over 2 months out of full warranty. We will see how John Eagle Honda and the manufacturer responds. Stay tuned.
  • texaslibtexaslib Member Posts: 1
    I own a 2008 Civic Hybrid with 73,000 miles and just had my battery replaced at no charge at Jim McNatt Honda. I was told that the battery is fully warrantied up to 80,000 miles.
  • papaobewanpapaobewan Member Posts: 2
    Purchased new in 2009 March,
    December 2011 IMA & CEL check engine light come on
    Highway mileage drops from 47-45 highway down to 33 mpg
    AutoStop randomly works! IMA & CEL RANDOMLY OFF & on
    Software update completed during warranty work in 2010
    Called Honda dealership ASM AUTO SERVICE MANAGER STATES PARTS/LABOR COVERED UNDER 8 yr /80,000 mile warranty IMA HYBRID BATTERIES

    Deliver to Colorado Springs Dealership - confirm my findings hybrid/IMA BATTERIES DEAD
    TSB TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN ON LEAKING FILLER PIPE ON GAS TANK AND VISOR ISSUE WERE TO BE CHECKED OUT AND REPAIRED IF NEEDED
    SO FAR FRONT RANGE HAS BEEN AN EXEMPLARY DEALERSHIP
    POST LATER AFTER PICK UP OF CAR EITHER ON 12-29 or 30th

    REQUESTED ALL COMMUNICATION IN WRITING
    ALL PRINTOUTS DIAGNOSES IN WRITING
    INFORMED THEM I WAS AWARE OF CLASS ACTION IN PROGRESS
    REQUESTED A LOANER VEHICLE - Enterprise rental was provided
    So far no major issues handling this
  • papaobewanpapaobewan Member Posts: 2
    Front Range Honda Dealership of Colorado Springs has made my experience quite remarkable! Went in on Monday 12-26-2011, today 12-30-2011 received my Honda Civic Hybrid (HCH) back new batteries installed, they provided me with a rental car during my wait! So overall I have to give Scott the ASM Auto service Manage and Clayton Davis (the auto representative in shop) two thumbs up! They discovered my claim to be true (the IMA Integrated Motor Assist Batteries were dead) and they checked the fuel neck and visor from other TSB recalls. Here is what I did :
    A. Called the Service Dept. and asked to talk to the Manager of the Auto Service Dept.
    1. Asked for all communication be in writing (stipulated it on the work order in long hand)
    2. Asked for the loaner vehicle, made note of the fact that problem is all over the Internet
    3. Made mention of the fact that a class action lawsuit is in progress (www.hchsettlement.com)
    4. Asked over the phone to elaborate on the warranty of the IMA batteries - which was parts and labor.
    5. Indicated other symptoms, drop in gas mileage 10-12 miles, autostop randomly operable, informed them that batteries were designed to assist gasoline engine obtain higher mpg, IMA and CEL check engine light were on and off, this is typical of any electronic device! Code that was sent to scanner, I had a buddy check it before going in.
    6. Ask that all communication pertaining to problem or diagnostic be provided in hardcopy which included monitor printouts of screen if hardcopy not available due to software limitation.
    7. Checked 12 Volt battery to determine that it was not the culprit, faulty or bad battery will send false positives to the system.(12 volt battery was not at fault)
    8. Made sure that the Hybrid SYSTEM was checked FIRST! to keep it under warranty.
    Indicated that a telephone call to me indicating problem(s) would not be accepted. When asked why I calmly stated in case we need to go to court. (others mentioned having to go to small claims court to get reimbursed for a diagnostic check charge)
    Above all else staying calm, being objective, and working with rather than against the representatives goes a long way, after all they are people who constantly are berated for issues they have no control over. I am very impressed with the final outcome. I am hoping that this posting brings a more optimistic outlook for everyone ! I do recall from my statistics course in college that batteries do die at a rate of 3% for whatever reason. For those of us in that 3% window I wish you as much success with your dealership as I had with mine! I read somewhere that 70% of Honda owners would not purchase another vehicle from Honda. As dealerships go this one is excellent. Furthermore, I am a retired computer teacher and in no way am I affiliated with Honda. I hope by providing some insight others will gain the knowledge and the patience to come toward a positive outcome! Kudos to Front Range Honda for standing behind their product!! Thank You Scott and Clayton!
  • dowjddowjd Member Posts: 14
    Great to hear your dealer did an excellent job. My only question is did they install the new Lithium battery pack or is it the nickel-metal?

    I would hate to see you have a repeat like I am having.

    I bought my HCH in Feb 09 and battery had to be replaced in Dec 09. Dec 2010 battery problem again. Software after software updates, still get poor mpg's. When I first got the car it averaged 46-47mpg, now 38-37mpg. Honda says won't replace until IMA light comes on again. Here it is Dec 2011 still at 38-37 mpg.

    I'm paying for a hybrid, but getting the performance of a Civic Sedan LX.

    Thanks Honda.
  • dontsettledontsettle Member Posts: 2
    Fantastic! That is the first good outcome I have heard of so far. Anyone in your area who wants a Honda should buy from this dealership because they should be rewarded for being responsive to their customers. I think you hit the nail on the head when you urge people to stay calm and treat the dealership employees with respect. It is not their fault - Honda built a lousy car. Unhappy Civic Hybrid owners should visit dont settle with honda dot org for more information.
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