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Comments
I'd rather not deal with Honda in any way, shape, or form again but it seems more people know about the Hybrid messes - and not just the Honda dealers. I don't want to sting anybody, but would sure love some advice on selling/trading or should I just take it out back and shoot it!?! What a fiasco...
My main worry was getting stuck with a car that would die on me too early and no option to fix it, since all IMA batteries are refurbished with old cells.
I have a Chevy Cruze Eco that gives me just over 47 mpg on long drives and the Cruze is very responsive thanks to the turbo. No more mashing the gas pedal hoping the car will pass the truck on the fast lane. You can still sell the car and take your loss or you may want to shoot it out back.
Good buy and happy motoring.
(of course you can jump the car with an other battery).
Look for it. good luck
What you are seeing there is a recalibration and forced regen situation. What happened is this:
1) The battery thinks it is fully charged, but may or may not be at full capacity.
2) The battery is being used normally until you get down to about 5 bars.
3) The voltage starts dropping. The regen system sees this and says "Hmm... maybe I am not really at 5 bars. Maybe I am close to zero bars."
4) It "recalibrates" by pretending the battery is at 2 bars and "force charging" the battery until it sees the resistance to charging spike and sets that as the new "fully charged" with all bars. During this period, you will not have normal IMA available (hence the sluggish acceleration).
Here is the kicker: A GOOD new battery pack that is properly balanced should discharge gradually to 1-2 bars and should charge gradually to full charge with a "Calibration and Forced Regen" only once in a while (like once a week maybe). If instead you see your battery drop gradually 2-3 bars, then fall like a rock and during charging you see it trickle up a couple of bars, then race to the top, that means your batteries are unable to hold a full charge. You are only getting a portion of their full capacity available before they lose voltage.
I suspect the dealership put refurbished batteries in your car, and they are not properly balanced or were in bad shape to begin with. You need to take this video and take that back to the dealer and demand a functional pack. Just my opinion.
Rules of the road. Thanks in advance for your cooperation on this
My car has been for sale locally for the last two weeks. The best I can get out of any dealer, which is Honda, on a trade-in is $6,800. The next closest is $6,000. I was offered as low as $4,400 last weekend. I told them they were smoking some good stuff and quickly walked. I had dreams of a Toyota Matrix or a Honda Fit, but I will dump a little more cash into this dead horse if it gets me a couple more years. I am looking at the grid charger that 99mpg is offering. I'm thinking that would do the trick and keep the IMA healthy. I just don't know if I am going to keep the car long enough to get that serious about it.
The new IMA battery will have a 3 year/36,000 mile warranty and the DC converter is 12 months/12,000 miles. I can't complain much for $500. I didn't even have to submit a video this time. I had one ready anyway.
2007 Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Replacement
1. Did the hazard lights deplete the IMA in 30 minutes or the 12v battery?
2. Is this reasonable? (BTW, I have not had any other problems with the IMA and have followed all recall instructions.)
3. How will I know when I need to replace the 12v battery?
Thank you so much for your help.
The replacement was flawless, the dealer even rented me a car for the day. It is the same dealer that did the last replacement. They have been really good to me. They didn't even question me after they were not able to reproduce the issues that I had described about the performance. They were not fazed by the fact that no idiot lights came on. Just a straight up replacement with warranty. I'm back up to 42 MPG with mixed driving and am happy for the moment.
I don't know where to go now , any thoughts? Or is this really normal as Bossless commented earlier??
I'm surprised someone hasn't been hurt yet. You expect a certain amount of acceleration from the car and time everything accordingly. When you don't have that extra assist, the car is an accident waiting to happen.
The first time I had the IMA battery replaced, the mechanic sent my video to Honda for review. Their engineers confirmed that this is not normal. If Honda America is telling you that they are going to agree with whatever the dealer tells you is not acceptable. The dealer can have an engineer review the video and make a determination. They all have an Internet connection and access to YouTube. Don't waste their time though. If it is a 15 minute video, tell them what the important parts are to look at. If the battery goes to 2 bars (because it will never go to zero after the update) annotate it within the video after you upload it. When the IMA gauge magically shoots to full five minutes later, annotate it within the video. They should be able to launch the video and see what they need to see in less than 60 seconds.
Again their plain response "Software Update".
I got two civic hybrid as part of rental last month, those cars did not have such issue. When I told them about that, they said those car wouldn't have the software update.
Okay, I said I don't want the software update, their response "the new battery wont run without the s/w update".
I have contacted Honda of America again and they said that they will me on Tuesday. Let's see.
You described the classic symptoms of a failing, and then completely failed hybrid battery.
1) Refurbished Honda batteries
Refurbished Honda batteries will generally not last. I would recommend you consider a new, third-party one. Definitely do not get one directly from the dealer. When I rebuild Honda batteries I use only new cells. For example, the pack I rebuilt this week uses cells that came off the assembly line in April.
2) P1570
This codes means there is low voltage on some of the hybrid battery. Because of this low voltage, the car will throw a code and eventually prevent you from using the hybrid battery. This includes assist, regen, and eventually use of the 12v battery, too.
3) Your 12v battery died.
Your car does not have an alternator; it has a dc/dc converter. If the hybrid battery is in poor health and shuts down, the dc/dc voltage converter will eventually shut down as well. Without the dc/dc converter, the 12v battery drain continually since the dc/dc converter is not charging back up. This draining happens especially quick on old, weak 12v batteries.
This means all electronics functions( headlights, wipers, fans, speedometer etc. ) drain the 12v batteries until it dies. Then you'll need to charge up the 12v battery wil a battery charger every time you drive the car.
3) Resetting the dash codes
When you unhook the negative terminal, it often makes the car "forget" about the codes and clears the codes. It also makes the car "forget" how full or empty the hybrid battery was. But, eventually (sometimes right away) the car figures out there was a problem, and sets the codes again. Unhooking the negative terminal will not "fix" the problem of course. It just masks it for a while.
You need to deal with the root cause of your problems: your refurbished battery has failed.
If you are in the Madison, WI area feel free look me up and I can talk with you in person or on the phone about it.
Eric Powers
EV Powers
Have Fun ^_-
I'm not sure what the word is on the latest model of HCH that uses the lithium-ion battery. I'd check into that first.
Bill G
2017 Accord Sport CVT Mod Steel Metallic
Do. Not. Do. It!!!!
I've lived in Philadelphia since 2009. It's more or less averaged 41 mpg (based on actual measurement, not the indicator on the car). Since June this year it's averaged 35 mpg.
Every time I turn off the car, it appears that the hybrid battery drains. (I use "drain" liberally simply to refer to the indicator level - I don't know how much power is actually in the battery.) It does not have to be overnight. It can be brief, like me going into the supermarket to buy groceries. When I turn on my car again, the hybrid battery either: (1) starts at 2 bars on the indicator; or (2) starts at a higher bar but drains to 2 bars within a few minutes. (Two bars appears to be the minimum for my indicator - it almost never goes below 2 bars.)
So basically when I start my car after turning it off, it takes the hybrid battery some time to kick in. This can range, but usually it happens in the time span of 5 - 10 minutes. When the hybrid assist isn't working because the battery is at 2 bars, the indicator shows 2 - 3 green bars (indicating charging, like when you brake). Annoyingly, sometimes the hybrid battery doesn't kick in until I'm near my destination. Often times I don't have the assist when I'm trying to get on the freeway. And HCH drivers know that there's a big difference in performance when the car isn't using the hybrid battery. Occasionally, the battery service light comes on, but this only happens when I first start the car and the hybrid battery indicator is at 2 bars, and this indicator light always turns off within 2 minutes. This has happened a few times.
Aside from starting the car, often times when I'm just driving, and the hybrid battery indicator is at full or near-full bars, the hybrid battery indicator will suddenly drop to 2 bars and I will lose the hybrid battery assist. I can generally tell when this will happen because I will press on the gas pedal, and I will feel that there is no assist. Moments later, the indicator will drop suddenly. After 5 - 10 minutes, the indicator will go back up to full bars and I will have the battery assist again.
Tried to be as detailed as possible to see if I could get some thoughts from other HCH drivers! I would appreciate any feedback! I'm mostly wondering if this means my hybrid battery is dysfunctional to the point that Honda will actually replace it.
My mask address is [email protected] for more discussion. Thank you.
I have a 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid and when it was at around 100+miles, the mechanics at Honda dealer in Sunnyvale, CA told me that I had to replace the IMA battery. That was in 2008 and the battery was going for $4000+. I didn't have the money to do it so I keep driving it... till now. My car is still running with the Engine light on, battery still charges when I go slow down or down hill, acceleration is not as it's used to be but my car has 318,560 miles on it now.
I think Honda makes damn good reliable car ! I love my Honda civic Hybrid. Best investment Ever ! I know I am on borrowing time but no worry.. I have also purchased a upgrade Honda... Acura TSX ready for the switch.. any day !
At about 108,000 miles, with the car looking like brand new and we are still searching replace new battery options, the Transmission suddenly went into neutral and never came out. We towed it to a Honda service center and learned that it had to be replaced. We had a 100,000 mile warranty on the car, which had just passed. COST: You guessed it $3000, for a REBUILT exchange from Honda. Neither Honda or the dealer accepted any responsibility even though these problems were design problems related to this model vehicle. It became unfeasible to tackle both the battery and transmission costs.
The car's value now dropped to $1000., the amount Honda Metro would give us for the car "as is". So a car we took care of and serviced regularly was now worthless. The dealer and Honda Company were unresponsive to these problems, which were now ours.
Lesson...you are on your own, the warranties don't count and neither the dealer or Honda will back their product!!
My son, the mechanic, is outraged that what amounts to a complete new engine if it were anything but a hybrid, is being replaced by this company over and over again. He points out that this is relatively new technology and needs time to work out the bugs. As it appears, there are plenty of bugs in the 1st through 4th generations -- if you were going to marry into this family, I would suggested you check out their rather shallow gene pool prior to saying "I do."
Buyer beware is apt here - read Edmunds.com or check out another good mileage car that is rated here better than any of these vehicles. Best of luck.
I have a 2005 and the hybrid battery was replaced in 2009. It just failed and I replaced it- note each had a life of four years.
Does anyone know if the new hybrid batteries have any improvements that would give me any hope of this one lasting more than four years?
It's very telling that the warranty on it is three years. The person at the dealership basically shrugged and ignored me.
What a nightmare.
My son is a mechanic and has given me an understanding of the situation like this: First of all, the IMA being replaced so often in so many vehicles is like so many engines needing to be replaced in so many vehicles. If we heard of that happening, we would be running away from any further purchases or replacement engines. Secondly, two engines (as he is referring to the importance of the IMA to your vehicle's performance) being replaced is almost unheard of in the car world. As he says, the hybrid is a great innovation that has not had time nor technical advances sufficient to call it reliable. We have learned that Honda has completely retrofitted the 2010 IMA due to the previous problems that they were quickly ready to blame on a host of driver errors. A complete retrofit still has no real guarantee.
So, when I thought we needed a second IMA and was given a 'thumbs up' from the dealer service manager, my son said, "Go with that, Mom. He's just given you something to offer a buyer. Dealer service manager has given my IMA a clean bill of health. Use it to sell the car asap."
Perhaps that is the answer for you -- use the new, reconditioned IMA as a selling point - at least there is some guarantee it will be covered under - right? For your sake, I hope so. Otherwise, I would expect that thing to go at any time. Get rid of it soon - one way or another. Take a bath on it with a dealer trade-in if you have to because you either will then or later when the second IMA goes out.
Best of luck to you with whatever you choose to do.
Our 2008 Civic hybrid battery capacity started deteriorating at 30k miles. Honda as we all know now is not honorable. We purchased a battery from a company in KC for 1/2 the price and longer warranty and because of Honda's software patch our best gas is 46mpg which is still better than the 36 we were getting.
Longer warranty on the battery, interesting. An aftermarket had to come around for hybrid parts
Just want to report that I own a 06 Honda Civic Hybrid with over $460K miles and like many of you I too have had problems with the IMA battery and poor MPG. I've replaced the IMA battery at a cost of $2000 and have done numerous maintenance upgrades (ie. struts, coil, belt replacement, valve adjustment), just to keep the car running. Despite the low mpg (36-40), the vehicle itself has been very reliable and it has yet to leave me stranded anywhere. I am currently looking to make another major investment around $1000 to the transmission to correct a faulty startup clutch problem. After this major upgrade, I anticipate I'll get an additional $100K or more miles out of this car before the engine will literally go out on this car. If I'm lucky, I'm hoping I will hit the million mile mark within 3 to 4 years. I commute an average of $70K miles a year driving from home to work. I love the car and would buy another one if I had to do it all over again.
Just curious... what was your initial reason for buying the hybrid, and did it turn out the way you expected?
I initial reasons for buying the car was for reliability first and fuel econony second. My previous car was a 96 Honda Prelude Si which lasted me almost 10 years. In those 10 years I drove the car, I amassed approximately 325,000 miles before the engine went out. The prelude was the first Honda I ever owned and the first car I ever had that broke the 200,000 mile mark. But it was when I broke 300,000 miles that I knew I would never buy anything other than a Honda for the simple fact that Honda makes reliable cars. So when I bought my Civic I knew it would be no different and I was right. Yes, I know most people look at fuel economy but for me it's always been dependability and reliability. It's been almost 3 years that I have gone without a car payment and if you add that up it totals up to $17,000. I don't think I would be able to say this had I bought a Chevy, Ford, Dodge or Mazda.
I'm the same way. I've routinely driven my vehicles over 200,000 miles and those stretches when you don't have a car payment add up a LOT faster than mileage savings due to the car being a hybrid. I'll give you a gold star for taking care of your cars as well, since I know you are keeping up on oil changes, paying attention to how the car is running. All that easy stuff to do that will make them last that long! And welcome to the forums! Always nice to see new faces joining our community!