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Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems

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Comments

  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    I went to a Honda dealership to see about trading in my 06 Civic hybrid which I'm not happy about. I drove a used Civic SI and asked what I would get for trading in my hybrid. (It was so wonderful to drive a car that I could control and had predictable acceleration.) Their first offer was $8,500, which they said was the KBB trade in value for the condition of my car. They upped their offer to $9,200. My conclusion is I didn't get any special treatment because I was trading in a Honda. They were just trying to sell me a car and they would have done the same thing if I had traded in another brand.
  • william1942william1942 Member Posts: 9
    I am i Philly. My gas mileage in the city has dropped to 30 to 33 mpg. On the highway it increased to 42 to 45.The battery indicater registers only two bars in the morning each day, but goes to "full charge" within 15 minutes. Is this the battery not getting charged enough?

    HELP!!
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    What is the charge when you put it to bed at night? If it is a lot more than two bars, then it is probably losing charge at rest. So, when the computer detects that the charge is different in the morning, it does a recal to balance the battery. Sounds like you may have the beginning of an early failure battery. Which just means that there is probably one or two bad cells. It probably can function a long time like this.
  • william1942william1942 Member Posts: 9
    It is always at "full" charge. If the battery is going bad, how do I get the dealer to acknowledge the problem?
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    That's the hard part. They won't generally do that until the IMA light comes on. You can tell them what is happening and that your mileage is reduced and see what they say.
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    The same thing is happening to my 06 almost every morning. I've taken it twice to Honda and their response is the IMA battery is fine according to their tests and that the IMA light is not on. I strongly suspect that the IMA battery is beginning to deteriorate and the Honda dealer essentially agreed with me the second time I took it back. But he said his hands are tied by Honda corporate. He did say I could send him a video or photos of it recharging daily and he would go back to Honda corporate. I'll give it a try but I'm not optimistic at this point that Honda will replace my IMA battery.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Sometimes you can get the IMA light to come on by driving in such a way as to discharge the battery heavily and then let it sit overnight and start out the next morning doing the same thing. Once it comes on the info will be stored. Hot weather and using the AC heavily helps to discharge the battery. Good luck.
  • shonda3shonda3 Member Posts: 42
    I have noticed that putting the car in neutral while coasting will stop the regeneration phase. This should help drain the battery. Does this assist in geting the IMA light to come on? Any ideas about this?
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Anything that drains or prevents the battery from charging should help. Keep in mind that all this will only turn the IMA light on if the battery is truly faulty in some way. It is like a stress test to highlight a problem. Hope it works for you. Do you ever get down to no charge bars. Mine did that before the IMA light ever came on. Even then it did not come on the first time it went to zero bars.
  • heather_07hchheather_07hch Member Posts: 28
    My car had zero bars several times before the IMA light ever came on, but once it began happening frequently, it wasn't long before I took it in and got the failure code.
  • shonda3shonda3 Member Posts: 42
    I've had zero bars several times. Still, no error code.
  • ill2006ill2006 Member Posts: 8
    When I received my letter and phone call from American Honda early in early August encouraging me to have my IMA software updated to extend the IMA battery life, I complied the very next day. Shortly thereafter my 2006 Civic Hybrid with 110,000 mi. on began to experience IMA problems. Battery charge would drop to 2 or 3 bars and the car would have extremely poor acceleration, within a minute the battery would be a full charge almost immediately with acceleration back to normal. I returned to the dealership and informed them of the performance issue after the software update. For the record my Honda ran great even with all the miles on it and would recommend it to anyone until the update. The dealer said there were no issues and the car was operating fine. I objected and asked to have the old IMA software reinstalled, the dealer said they could not. I put the dealer on notice that this problem was a safety issue more than a performance issue. If you can not trust your car to accelerate when merging onto a highway or make a left turn from a complete stop what good is it. I prohibited my teen new driver from using the Civic. I next called American Honda's Consumer Complaint hotline and filed a complaint with them they said they would investigate. After a couple of days Honda called me to inform me the car was operating fine. I again objected and and asked them if I was on recorded line, they said yes. I put them on notice that if anything happen to me or one of family members American Honda was responsible. To make a long story short, two weeks ago the dealer calls and asked me to bring the car in for a district manager to test drive. They also stated Honda was having some issues with the software patch...oh really. My wife and I began keeping a log of when the problem occurred, battery charge level, mileage, time of day, and outdoor temperature. We gave them a copy of the log. After several days(they supplied a rental) of the dealer going to bat for me, Honda relented and installed a BRAND NEW IMA BATTERY with the old version of the IMA system software. While we have only had the car back to us a few days, my wife has commented that it drives like a new car. Thank you Honda for coming to your senses before somebody was injured or worse. I believe it only will be a matter of time before Honda issues a mass "good will" IMA battery replacement.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Thanks for this very worthwhile information. Do you think the "goodwill" effort will include rebates for us who paid at least half the cost of the new IMA battery?
  • bruceleeroybruceleeroy Member Posts: 1
    Like many I had my upgrade back in July. Since then my IMA will not work all the time. What I mean by this is NOT what they outline in the letter. If I merge onto the freeway/highway and try to accelerate my IMA should kick in, but it doesn't, not at all. Then next time it will work again. I drive up the same long steep hill every day, some days my assist kicks in and everything is great, some days it does not and I have a pile of cars behind me.
    My friends at Darryl Waltrip Honda in Franklin are telling me that what I'm describing is exactly how it works now. All the way up to the service manager, "this is how the car works".

    1 - They asked me to do this upgrade, my car didn't have any issues before.

    2 - The "upgrade" letter did not mention 'sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't'. I certainly wouldn't do the upgrade if it did.

    3 - Really? If you make it so my IMA only kicks in 80% of the time that will increase the life span? That does not sound like an upgrade, sounds like a bunch of crap.

    4 - For 2 weeks after the upgrade I did experience a drastic loss in MPG, from 42 ish down to 30. The 3rd time I took it in that problem stopped. They said they did nothing.

    I have owned Honda's my entire life (36 years). My mom worked for Honda out in Oregon. This is my last Honda. I cannot bleieve someone can look me straight in the face and tell me that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

    If anyone is interested in a car, I'm selling. It works exactly as Honda says it should.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    What I would be curious to know is what is the difference in the battery state of charge when it works and when it doesn't work.
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    I have filed a complaint with Honda Customer Relations and I took it to the dealer and he test drove it. He said he couldn't duplicate my frequent discharge of my IMA battery. I called Honda Customer Relations and complained again about the IMA battery and also said the software update made the car unsafe and I wanted the old software installed. Honda said that they couldn't reinstall the old software and I would have to take it to the dealer to have them back up my claim that the car is unsafe because of the frequent discharges and the software update. Honda said I had the option to take it to another dealer to get a second opinion. Honda also said which made me really angry that the dealer could charge me for their time test driving the car if they couldn't duplicate my problems.
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    I'm desperate to improve the performance of my 06 Hybrid which has been discharging frequently and the software update made it more sluggish. I filled up with mid octane gas yesterday. My impression after 1 day of driving is the engine seems peppier and the integration between the gas and electric engine seems better. I'll see if this continues.
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    The Civic hybrid engine actually has a higher than normal compression ratio (10.8 to 1) so the higher octane gasoline may help. Here is a post on an Insight forum discussing higher octane and the Insight and Civic Hybrid http://www.insightcentral.net/forums/mpg-issues/9128-octane-rating-mpg-civic-hyb- rid.html.
  • pastorkpastork Member Posts: 9
    Yeah, they made that same threat to me. I pitched a fit. And of course, Honda Customer Relations told you that they haven't heard this complaint from anybody else? LOL
  • mabecanemabecane Member Posts: 46
    edited September 2010
    Problem! what problem?
    \Even if a hybrid battery fails outside the warranty limits, Toyota would most likely still offer assistance, said Pearce.

    It's the same story over at Honda, maker of the oldest hybrid on the market, the Honda Insight.

    That's nice... what about the Brooklyn bridge.
    Don't sweat over hybrid battery failure
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    This mechanic repairs IMA batteries for far less than buying a brand new set http://www.hybrid-battery-repair.com/hch/index.html. If you read his webpage, he says that the IMA batteries tend to deteriorate early in hot weather. My interpretation is that Honda did not do enough testing of these IMA batteries in hot weather, or should have had a cooling system installed for the battery pack. (My understanding is that the Focus hybrid battery pack is kept at 70 degrees to help it last.) I would be curious if there was data on Civics hybrids with freqent recals and IMA battery replacement by region.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I understand there is a cooling fan for the battery. My battery did noticeably deteriorate this summer after about 90K miles. It was a record hot summer.
  • 030394030394 Member Posts: 4
    From reading all these posts, it seems like there are more 2006 Civic Hybrid owners complaining about battery & sofware problems than any other model year cars. Got my newest software update on my 2008 Hybrid about 2 months ago, and the car's IMA system seems to be smarter than before. I drove about 2 tanks of gas before the car's computer finally educated itself and kicked in. I had the same complaints as everyone else when I first got mysoftware done. Now, it seems to manage the battery usage better and hold a charge longer. Milage has been about the same in the 40-42 mpg, but it will drop in hotter weather. Using midgrade gas does help the car to get that extra poweer & pep. And yes, I switched back to 1 tank full of regular unleaded, and you can feel a difference in power.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I have a 2006 and the new software did not solve my problem. After three weeks the battery was replaced and everything is fine. Plenty of acceleration and milage around 45 which is pretty much the same has it has always been.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    My 2006 with updated software and a new battery operates like new. It has 93K miles with NAV and all the options, well maintained and well taken care of. The battery has a warranty. I generally average about 45 mpg driving responsibly but not overly conservatively. If I decided to sell it, how much do you think it is worth?
  • dieseldawgdieseldawg Member Posts: 8
    $6000, at best.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    $6000, at best.

    That may be a little pessimistic, but not much. It is after all a 5 year old car with 93k miles, even Honda's can't defy gravity.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    This seems ridiculously low for a well maintained car in excellent shape with a new hybrid battery and warranty. I've always felt that how a car is maintained and taken care of is more important than just the miles driven. Honda's are know for their reliability and durability (notwithstanding the hybrid battery problem). What about another opinion from someone? If it is truly only worth this much, I might as well drive it for another 100K miles at an average 45 mpg and probably trouble free. (The only problem is my wife wants a larger car with more utility, but still a hybrid.)
  • 030394030394 Member Posts: 4
    I just checked Kelly Blue Book. Trade in value is listed between $6550 for fair condition to $8350 for excellent assuming you do not have nav. or any other upgrades. Remember this is Trade in Value! There are no 2006 Civic Hybrid selling on ebay for less than $10k. The cheapest is this 87k mile car which has 24 bids and currently bid up to $8k.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CIVIC-HYBRID-AUTO-CD-CLEAN-1-OWNER-NO-RESER- VE-/130435817397?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item1e5e949fb5
    Selling your car for $6k would be like giving it away!
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Thanks. This makes more sense. My car is in excellent condition (now) and has all the options including NAV. I was hoping for around $12K, but that might be somewhat of a stretch for this milage, but another trouble free 100K miles for a well maintained Honda is not a stretch.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Looked at the ad on Ebay you referenced. Noticed the Battery charge showed three bars. After what I have been through that would be something I would want to know more about. It could be because the car has been started a lot without much driving, or it could be due to something more serious. Now that I have the updated software and new battery, I have not seen my charge level go below four bars. Generally it runs between 5-7 bars. No more eight bar level, even though I believe I could with some deliberate effort get it to go to that level. I think this is part of Honda's strategy to increase the life of the battery. Presently, I average 45 mpg, have plenty of acceleration, and the car is a pleasure to drive. And with the new warranty, I feel secure with the car. However, It might be difficult to impart that take on the car to get top dollar.
  • wavespongewavesponge Member Posts: 2
    I also have an '06, going for the software update today. Service manager documented my complaints about recals and loss of assist this past summer. He basically said if you don't get the update and you have a problem with the battery later on, they may deny warranty coverage. Even though the "letter" states that the product update will be available until "July 30, 2013. After that, any applicable warranty would apply."

    As far as what the car is worth, in excellent condition, according to KBB,
    Trade In: $8,400
    Private Party Sale: $10,470
    Retail: $12,370
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    My experience was that the software update did not fix my ailing battery. It did prevent the IMA light from coming on again during the three weeks I drove it. After that, I replaced the battery (Honda payed 50%) and everything is fine.
  • heather_07hchheather_07hch Member Posts: 28
    I tried to trade my 2007 w/86000 miles to the dealership that replaced my battery last week for an Accord. They offered me 7500. I owe 15000, so I told them no. They refused to budge. They were offering 5500 off the Accord, so I assume that's why they wouldn't give me even a little more. I am beginning to really hate this car.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I don't hate mine because it is now performing well. However, I don't generally trade my cars because I keep them in excellent shape and do better selling them on my own. I've done that lots of times. Don't know if that will work for this one, though.

    Can't understand why yours doesn't perform better with a new battery.
  • heather_07hchheather_07hch Member Posts: 28
    Me either! I am taking it back next week. I have allowed them 1000 miles to see improvement, but no such luck. I don't want to trade it and lose that much money, but I can't sell it to anyone. It wouldn't be right. I don't know if it's worth the gamble to keep driving it. It's not safe. I saw someone on here say that they got a new battery and then Honda installed the old software. That's about the only way I'd be willing to keep it.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Maybe they did not install the new software properly. I have the new software and new battery and everything is fine so far. I understand it may be a problem to uninstall the software. There should be some way to reset the computer to original setup.
  • grandtotalgrandtotal Member Posts: 1,207
    edited October 2010
    This seems ridiculously low for a well maintained car in excellent shape with a new hybrid battery and warranty.

    I agree with you, but that's the way it is. Heather_07hch's experience at a dealership getting a trade-in number above tends to confirm it though. KBB does not buy cars, dealers do.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I thought KBB values were based on actual sales and trades.
  • calihchcalihch Member Posts: 1
    Hi there - I am a 2005 HCH owner, in the state of CA. My car has 98K miles on it, and the IMA light came on the other day. I took it to our local dealer to get the diagonistic test. It came back with a failing IMA code, and was told my IMA battery would need to be replaced for about $3k.

    Now I am in the state of CA, and my car is certified PZEV and SLUV (Tier II). Therefore, my IMA battery should be under warranty until 10/150,000. The dealer tried to convince me that I was wrong, my battery was NOT covered, and my car was ULUV only and did not meet the state requirements.

    I had a pretty good feeling that they were trying to trick me, so I contacted Honda America. The customer service rep I talked to was very vague, but said there was absolutely nothing in her records (based on VIN) that would tell me whether my car was covered.

    So since neither Honda entity was going to help me, I did some reseach on my own, and determined that my car was indeed covered.

    I called Honda America back again, and my complaint was escalated to a "case manager". He immediately tried to convince me that, yes my car was PZEV, but based on my VIN it was not covered. He said that even though my car was certified PZEV in the state of CA, it really didn't matter. Some cars were covered, some were not, and it was all based on VIN and some info he had in his database. He then goes on to say, "your car is NOT covered, but Honda wants to keep you happy, so would you be satisfied with Honda covering half of the $3k?" Heck, no - they should cover it all. By law.

    After talking to two California state departments (Bureau of Auto Repair, and CARB) they encouraged me to file a complaint, because what Honda America (and the dealership) was saying was not true, and they felt I was being duped.

    I called back my case manager, and requested my denial of coverage in writing, along with any support he had based on my VIN and the Honda database. My husband followed up with a call, basically saying that we knew my car was covered, and we weren't going to go away.

    Literally, an hour later, I got a call from the dealership saying my IMA battery would be replaced for free.

    I wanted to share my experience ASAP, because I feel that this a shady tactic from the top of the company, down. If we hadn't been persistent, and had just TRUSTED Honda, we would be out $3k. I believe that Honda is most likely pulling this scam on a lot of people, and I wanted to tell people to talk to your state board, and stay on them. Don't believe everything they tell you. And if this has happened to you, please feel free to contact me. I think it's time to shine light on this bad business practice.
  • just4me2just4me2 Member Posts: 1
    KBB does not buy cars, dealers do.

    Dealers are not buyers of cars, but business dealers. Dealers buy cars to sell for a profit. What they pay for your car is way below the actual market value. They are in the business of making money! If you actually trade it in for $6k, you will see it back on their lot selling for $10k plus. Just look on ebay and the Autotrader and see if there are any dealers willing to sell their 2006 Civic Hybrid for car for $6k. Your car then is worth what the dealers or private parties are selling their cars for, and it's definitely not $6k.
  • passageguypassageguy Member Posts: 5
    Thanks for your post CaliHCH. This is a post that's truly useful. Someone has to shine the light on this issue. I have refused to get the new software update for my 2006 because there is nothing wrong with the car. I had to file a complaint with the BBB to get one simple answer from Honda. I simply wanted to know if I refused the update is my warranty still in tact. Honda Canada of course provided me with this wishy washy may or may not answer. I finally got it in writing that the upgrade is voluntary and from my Service Manager at my dealership that it does not effect the warranty. I keep my car in great shape and dont beat it. The reality of the situation is this. We're not going to be able to sell these cars without taking a loss. All I can do is hope that the battery dies before my 8 year mark. If i have to invest in a new battery after the warranty is up then I guess that's what I have to do. Everything else on the car is still solid. I just wish honda would be more honest about the issue and stop screwing people around. There image is really taking a hit on this issue and it really sucks that they seem to just not give a *^%#. I'm glad you got your battery replaced. I have been documenting everything I do when it comes to dealing with my dealership. As far as people that want to sell the car... I mean go ahead but I don't see how your going to do that without taking a loss. In my case it would be a huge loss.
  • mabecanemabecane Member Posts: 46
    edited October 2010
    I'm in the same boat, my 06 runs fine without the update, I got 51mpg yesterday on an airport run. I love the car and hope the battery last. Luckily in Connecticut the warranty for the IMA battery is 10 years. By then if the battery fails I will replace it, it's cheaper than selling and buying an other vehicle. But I will not buy an other HCH.
    My son was contemplating buying one... NOT!
    Thanks for all the great info.
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    You are right about taking a loss if selling. I've had mine up for sale for about a month. Not much interest, and when there is some, it is only with a big reduction in price. This is with a new battery and warranty. So, I just keep driving it and enjoying the good mileage. I am averaging about 46 mpg since I got the new battery and software update. That is the same as I was getting before I started having battery problems.
  • dhilldinerdhilldiner Member Posts: 48
    Interesting that Honda told you in writing that the software upgrade is voluntary. I thought Honda's intent in the software upgrade was to preserve the IMA battery or slow down its deterioration so I would think they would not honor a claim for a dead IMA battery unless you had done the software upgrade.

    I wonder if Honda is backtracking because of complaints about the software upgrade or it is just more flailing around rather than doing the right thing to repair our crappy batteries.

    I wish I had not done the software upgrade because it has hampered the performance and probably slowed the deterioration of my already impaired IMA battery which means I am stuck longer with it.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    If the software upgrade is voluntary, by not getting the upgrade are owners essentially accepting anything that results? (Earlier battery replacement, for example?) I'm finding this thread very interesting since battery life/replacement was, and still is, one of the big questions I've always had with regard to hybrids (EV's too)
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    I've had the same question too. However, it seems that other makes such as Prius do not have battery problems.
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Member Posts: 9,372
    edited October 2010
    Instead of "problems" I might use the word "issues"... Prius batteries won't last forever either. Someday there will be a breakthrough in battery tech that will make all these options MUCH more practical
  • bosslessbossless Member Posts: 179
    Certainly, no battery will last forever, but Prius is not having the somewhat prevalent issues (I say problems because it has a negative effect on function), that Honda is having.
  • jcihakjcihak Member Posts: 60
    I (unfortunately) owned a HCH for 1 1/2 years and also own a Camry hybrid for 3 years now. My parents are on their 2nd Prius after having the first for 5 flawless years. There is a world of difference between the two technologies. Even when the HCH was working right, it was always very underpowered compared to the Toyota hybrids. The battery would run out on a short hill. The battery would never hold a charge while parked during a work day. The Honda battery tech is very primitive and is proving unreliable. After owning both, its like night and day.
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