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Comments
P.S. I bought one of those first 2001 Elantras in the U.S. and own a 2004 Elantra now. Both very good cars. But not perfect. Nor is any car.
Methinks I should research a bit before replying...
I also saw a post saying there are not very many 2008 Elantras left at the dealers. There are lots up here in NY at the Hyundai dealers. And we were told the only 2009 to get released so far is the Sonata as it sold out so fast.
I liked the bigger Sonata, but I have a 32 " inseam and I had no leg room in it, but yet the smaller Elantra was a perfect roomy fit.
I like mine so far. I just dread knowing my fuel pump will probably go too. And hiping my husband got the correct right one installed, not one out of a car up for sale. .
(To recap, my original entry in this forum is #189. My car lost power and died in the middle of an intersection during a simple left-hand turn on my first day of ownership. It had about 100-125 miles on it at the time of failure. The dealer said the computer returned a "misfire code on cylinder 1" but could not pinpoint the source of the problem, or what part to fix.) I have tried to be very patient with this whole problem, but this is just unacceptable. I drove my car one day since I bought it on July 8, and it's been in the shop since. I asked the dealer if it could possibly be the fuel pump, after reading all the issues with fuel pumps on this forum. They said that "the fuel pump is not the problem".
Fast forward a few days, and they now notice my 4 calls to the customer complaint line, the BBB complaint and the NHTSA complaint. (I may proceed via BBB through the arbitration/mediation process to get my car returned/ money refunded.) Last night the dealer called and acted shocked that the regional people said to replace the fuel pump on the car. They have to order it still, and don't have an ETA on the repair time (probably depends on when the part comes in). They offered a loaner car (the car has been in the shop for over 1 week now...not quite sure why they offered a loaner to me so late!). They already said that there wasn't anything wrong with the fuel pump, so why replace it now???
My husband inquired as to what "tests" were run on the car...he said that we needed proof of the diagnostic tests run on the car (FYI, we need this for the BBB complaint that we filed. BBB requires/requests paper copies of all records of repairs/tests the shop conducts). The dealer said that they "visually inspected and test drove the vehicle". Nothing in the "diagnostic" category was run (I thought they do more than just look at the car and drive it???). I'm not sure if this is normal to do such low-level "tests" on a car malfunctioning on the first day of ownership. I'm trying not to be negative about Hyundai, but I find it very difficult. The first Hyundai repair shop said "You're going to have to wait for your car to be looked at...you are on the bottom of the wait list". It didn't matter that my car was only 26 hours old.
Then I called the sales manager at the dealer where I made the purchase, and he basically called me a liar (he said to me "I suspect that you are OVER-DRAMATIZING the issues with your car. I find it impossible to believe that ANY Hyundai dealer would have a wait list for a car to be looked at in this situation." I told the sales manager to feel free to verify that what I'm saying is true. I gave him the name and number of the dealer making the "repairs". The sales manager at the selling dealership said "I WILL verify your story with the repairing dealership. I doubt what you are saying is true. I will verify with the repairing dealer." He then called me back about 10 minutes later and apologized profusely for "further fueling my anger" at the situation and not believing me. He said the repairing Hyundai dealer service manager was "the rudest person he's dealt with in this business". The two Hyundai dealers (the one I bought the car from and the one "repairing" the car) slung mud to each other over the course of the next few days we me caught in the middle....
Please put yourselves in my shoes and see if you would be upset if the selling dealership treated you with disrespect and essentially calling you a liar. Would you be happy with Hyundai? Would you be negative? I feel better now that I have filed several complaints with entities that can do something about this situation. I am moving towards a resolution, despite not having much cooperation from Hyundai.
Surprisingly I am now laughing about the situation because it's gotten ridiculous at this point. I don't really care to have the car back. I was originally excited to buy my Elantra since I fell in love with the Sonata (I rented one for 10 days on vacation last year. It was so similar to the Camry, and much cheaper.) I had high hopes for Hyundai and the Elantra, so I'm understandably disappointed by this whole situation.
Thank you to all who have been supportive and understanding of my predicament. I've appreciated the tips you have offered me. This has been a very trying situation, but I have tried to be proactive and alert others to possible dangers with this vehicle. I hope I have done my part to make Hyundai and consumers aware of this serious problem. That's the silver lining in this situation...
I suspect the PZEV has nothing to do with the pump problems, but that's just a guess. My guess is they used an underengineered (i.e. 'cheap') pump that has a design defect and burns out easily. IIRC, I've seen posts of this problem from east coast states that are NOT affected (or can get) PZEV engines. I suspect it's just a problem across the entire line and whatever other cars might use the same part (perhaps Accent or Sonata depending?)
It is unfortunate this occurred as I know how much of a pain they are to replace, and the potential for personal or property injury due to the failure. I also know I've seen tons of reports of failure (though not this soon) on GM vehicles from the mid to late 90's. I'ver personally experienced it too on a GM. Usually around 50 - 70K miles and the next one fails in another 50K. So it's not something isolated to Hyundai, but the immediate failure is cause for concern.
i had a similar situation with dodge/chrysler with my mom's caravan- i will never give any money to them. especially because i contacted their corporate relations office and sent pics of the issue and never heard back.
i hope that bad dealer improves or maybe you just should never go back there. not sure if i missed it, but did the dealer you purchased it from want to help you at all? maybe contact the bad dealer again and work with them. obviously, if your salesperson said the service manager was the rudest person he ever spoke with, i would hope he would follow up because a couple bad people can really tarnish a whole company- as you're experiencing.
good luck. please keep us updated.
eric
Personally when I got my old 2003 elantra, I had a minor issue of some squeaking noises coming from the left front of the car. They only showed up at high speeds, so it was hard to diagnose. But the service guy actually came on a ride with me and they understood the issue afterward. It was fixed promptly and never came back. That's the kind of service I expect and probably what should have happened with you. And if it had, I bet you'd be far more happy.
As for the beta engine, it's been in use about 10 years. As I posted previously, we've had cars with that engine for around 180,000 miles with no problems. Obviously, Hyundai has gone to a cheaper supplier for the pumps and it's come back to bite them. They need to be air-freighting new pumps to dealers so they can be changed instantly when there is a problem and also change the cars on the lot.
I don't know about other states, but in Georgia, we have a three-day grace period to return a car, no questions asked as long as the mileage is less than 150. If my car had died the first day, that's exactly what I would have done.
All pumps today are mounted at the bottom of the fuel tank so their motors are cooled by the gas surrounding it. It seems like there should be a massive recall on this part and have them all replaced if it is this prevalant.
http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/120605.html
Also, I confirmed that SULEV (PZEV-style tailpipe emissions) was available on the 2006 Elantra. (You might have seen that when you looked at Wikipedia.) I am pretty sure that the Sonata got PZEV only for 2009,
During the process of them simply visually inspecting my car and driving it around like it's a free cab service, I asked them if the problem could possibly be a faulty fuel pump. (Based on other feedback on this forum, I suspected that there may be a problem with the fuel pump.) The dealer said "No, we already checked the fuel pump and there is nothing wrong with it". Additional days passed by, and no answer on the source of the problem with the vehicle. During a big chunk of the time the car has been in the shop, I have had to call and request status updates. The dealer has not made a point to call me and update me. The dealer kept saying that they couldn't find anything wrong with the car.
I started filing complaints with the BBB, NHTSA and Hyundai corporate (plus posting here on this forum). All of a sudden (Wednesday, July 16), the dealer calls and says that their regional person contacted them and told them to replace the fuel pump on my vehicle. (I'm not sure what prompted the regional people to contact the dealer about my car). The dealer tells us they have to order the fuel pump, and expect that it will be at the shop on or before Friday, July 18. They said my car should be repaired by the end of the day on Friday.
My husband called the dealer again on Friday (7/18/08) for an update, and the dealer then asked to keep the car one more night. They wanted to test drive it some more and then if everything appears ok, they will release the car to us on Saturday, July 19 (today). We waited until 11AM today and called the dealer for an update (they hadn't called us yet). The dealer then says that the car won't be ready until Monday sometime. They said they needed to run ANOTHER test on the car (he said they have to test the fuel pump). Now the earliest the car will be ready for pickup is Monday afternoon/early evening (7/21/08). The brand-new vehicle will have been in the shop 12 DAYS by the time we can get it back...and I only had the car in my possession for about the first 26 hours.
The dealer said that when we pick it up, it will have about 3/4 a tank of gas in it, which is about the same amount I dropped it off with. They have piled 300 miles onto my brand-new car, they haven't given me the courtesy of a FULL gas tank. I've paid 12 days of car insurance, loan interest and lost out on 12 days of free XM radio service. I also had to use my other car for commuting, which doesn't get as high of fuel economy as the Elantra (I bought the Elantra to SAVE MONEY ON FUEL COSTS, etc, but I haven't seen the benefits of owning the vehicle since it's been in the shop for going on 12 days). I've completely lost out and am getting screwed over by Hyundai. They have no intention to make anything right, and they act like this isn't a big deal to have a 26-hour-old car break down and then be in the shop the next 12 days.
I will follow through with arbitration and pursue getting the car returned and loan paid off. The service I have gotten from the dealer is pathetic at best. The dealer had not returned calls to Hyundai corporate. I have spoken with Hyundai corporate 4 times now and they haven't done much exept escalate the issue to their regional level. The regional people were supposed to call me within 3 days, but I haven't heard from them yet. (Monday will be the 3rd full business day, and I'll be flabergasted if they really call me.)
Oh...and the sales manager I spoke with earlier this week who treated me like a liar (and then later apologized for treating me that way) is no longer with the company. I tried to call him today and found out from the receptionist that his last day was Tuesday (7/15/08). Interesting!!! I spoke with another equally pleasant manager (sarcastic) and he said "We (the dealership) has NO return policy on new vehicles. Once you drive it off the lot, it's yours."
The dealer clearly doesn't stand behind their product at all when they act like a problem vehicle is "yours". This dealer also doesn't take responsibility for selling a poorly made vehicle to an innocent victim. The manager I spoke with (this new one is a real peach!) said that it's not the dealer's responsibility to return a car and pay back my loan. He said that I have to deal with Hyundai corporate, and have THEM purchase back my brand-new pile of worthless metal (AKA the new car I bought).
Buyer beware...when you buy from this company, the problem (AKA car) is YOURS to deal with. YOU are the one who owns it, and the dealer will take NO RESPONSIBILITY to make you whole again. You will lose out on the use of your car (FYI - don't trade in your currently-dependable other car when you buy from this company...you will need your first car as a back-up when your new Elantra is sitting in the shop for 12 or more days), you will waste money on insurance, loan finance charges, fuel economy, worth of your vehicle while the dealer piles on hundreds of miles on your new car... The fun is neverending!!!
Please don't think that I'm some anonymous person who is angry about my purchase. I am a hard-working mother with a Master's Degree and I work 10 hour days and commute 2 hours each day. Never in a million years would I have thought this would happen to me. I didn't ask to buy a worthless car and have it sit in the shop this long and this early in my car ownership. This Elantra nightmare has really been a disaster and it's really gotten ugly. This problem could happen to ANYONE who buys this type of car falsely thinking they are getting a reliable, dependable, cost-effective car. The Elantra clearly fails to live up to everything the dealers talk it up to be. Please don't fall for the dealer's sales pitch, and p
But I also think you are being unreasonable in your anger towards Hyundai and the dealer. Yes, it appears your dealer could have given you better customer service. But you are blaming them for decisions that you made. For example, you decided to decline their offer of a free rental car while yours is in the shop. Yet you now blame them because you had to use your other car for commuting, that you had to use your other car as a back up. It was not their fault that you decided to reject their offer of a free rental car. So why blame them for that?
Also, you complain that the dealer has driven your car in their attempts to determine the cause of the problem. 300 miles seems like a lot, but what it could mean is that they were trying very hard to determine the cause of the problem, and they simply couldn't replicate the problem you had, so they kept trying. And the only way to do that was to drive the car. Would you have been happier had the dealer not driven your car at all? That they guessed at the cause of the problem? Do you think the reason it's taken so long to return your car to you is just maybe that the dealer, and Hyundai, want to be very sure it's fixed properly, because of the nature of the problem and what it could mean for anyone riding in it? If this kind of problem happened to one of my cars, I'd want the dealer to take whatever time they needed to make sure it was fixed properly.
Also, you expect a dealer to exchange your car (which can never again be sold as a new car) for a new car, just because your car had a faulty fuel pump. What if everyone who has a fixable problem with a car would demand a new car? Since you have a master's degree, you can probably figure out the financial implications to the dealer and/or manufacturer.
If you purchased the Elantra because you expected it to be perfect, then you had an unreasonable expectation. The Elantra has a proven track record for above-average reliability, but it's not perfect, nor is any car model perfect. So if you have a problem with a car in the future, and the problem requires the car to be kept at the dealer more than a few hours, my advice is, take the dealer's offer of a free loaner. Drive the loaner--put the wear and tear on it vs. your other car. Be firm but polite in your dealings with the dealer and the manufacturer. They aren't always as great as we'd like them to be and they can make mistakes, but they're human beings and they appreciate being treated as you would like to be treated. When people are treated with respect, they tend to reciprocate. At least that is what I've found over the years.
Fuel pumps now a days are mostly located inside the gas tank submerged in gas for cooling purposes. About the fuel pump problems on the Elantra it maybe possible to buy some time on this fuel pumps by keeping a full tank of gas most of the time for cooling the pump. Of course this is just my opinion.
The Associated Press
Monday, July 21, 2008
WASHINGTON: The government is investigating 2007-2008 model year Hyundai Elantra compact cars after receiving reports of engine stalling, officials said Monday.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said in a posting on its Web site that its preliminary investigation involves about 167,000 Elantras. NHTSA said it has received four reports of engine stalling because of problems with the vehicle's fuel pump module.
One owner said the car stalled in the fast lane of a three-lane highway and caused a crash involving three cars and one injury. Three of the four reports involved vehicles with only 600 miles (1,000 kilometers) or less; the fourth vehicle had 2,839 miles (4,568 kilometers) at the time.
Hyundai Motor Co. spokesman Miles Johnson said Monday it was too early in the process to draw any conclusions about the alleged safety issue. He said Hyundai was cooperating with NHTSA on the investigation.
U.S. sales of the Elantra grew more than 50 percent in June to nearly 14,500 vehicles for the month as consumers responded to gasoline prices that have exceeded $4-a-gallon ($1.05 a liter).
Come on everyone...go and file your report. A week after I talked on the phone to the safety investigator it goes public and all because of the 3 vehicles that crashed because of my husbands fuel pump going. They need everyone to file. Please please file the report if you have a problem.
Fairfax Hyundari, the dealer I purchased car from, was absolutely NO HELP in my predicament. Their new car sales manager actually hung up the phone on me while I was trying to discuss my situation and what I thought they should be doing to assist me with getting back home for work. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND avoiding that dealership because Mr. Leo Blakley and the GM there have no clue about customer service. Once you drive off the lot you are on your own. To say I have been disappointed with my Hyundai experience thus far is an understatement. :mad:
Be a little more considerate towards her. I think she has handled it calmly & professionally & was not rantin and raving mad like some other forum members.
And before you accuse ME of being a dealer, no, I'm not. I'm a Civil Engineer, not a dealer. Most of us are here because we're auto enthusiasts, not trying to sell something.
And, btw, I was the one who suggested people contact NHTSA. And because some complained to appropriate authorities, this investigation has been opened. And because of this increased scrutiniy, your girlfriend's car might also be repaied if it has faulty pump too.
And do you know who was the first one who complained to NHTSA? schukanuoslady.
This attacking comment is totally unacceptable. We are all here to learn and share information.
Thank you and be safe!
You say you bought an SE? And you did it knowing the problem? I know ours are GLS's. And with all the posts I don't remember if anyone else said they had an SE have it happen.
I didn't see in the report where it specified which was breaking down. But why would you want to put the dealer on notice when you haven't taken delivery yet and you can cancel the sale and get your money back? That doesn't make sense to me. And you KNOW there is a problem but yet you are buying one? They can't fix the problem until it happens. I know, I wanted them to change my fuel pump and they said until Hyundai makes it official they can only fix what breaks down until they get a tech bulletin. Hyundai has to authorize a recall. And mabye the SE's are not having the problem.
In my opinion you are only going to be making your dealer upset and then when something happens they will remember you and then you will get treated like some of the others have been.
OK...so now I just gave someone a perfect chance to take another pot shot at me :shades: , but you know what? I don't care. He's not the one paying for my car. I am. And if something happens to my car it will get fixed. I just hope it doesn't, but knowing there is a problem I will just have to be on alert. And wait for Hyundai to take action.
And many grateful thanks to those who stuck up for me when that post was posted and aimed right at me.
I feel the same way. Its a vehicle. And there are always recalls on something. Luckily so far as I have seen no one else has reported an accident like what happened to my husband.
And no car is perfect. Look at me...11 yrs I had my truck and Toyota bought it back from me for safety reasons to crush it and remove it off the road. That devastated me. But now I know at least sooner or later this poblem is going to be resolved and hopefully before someone gets killed. :shades:
When driving on the freeways, be on the extreme right lane so that you can pull to the shoulder if the engine shuts down. When making turns at intersections, make sure that you have enough Green light time & don't be in a hurry. Maintain adequate distance with other vehicles on the road. Ofcourse, everyone should be driving carefully whether there's a problem or not.
Be safe everyone!
When I put the dealer "on notice", I respectfully told him about the investigation. He thanked me and agreed to talk to the service manager. Hopefully they can be alert for these problems and assist in developing a solution for this scary problem.
Safe driving everyone.
That dealer is going to have to be "your friend" if and when that car breaks down as they will be the ones trying to fix your car unless you break down someplace else.
Personally I wouldn't want a dealer mad at me like I have read here in some of the posts.
I already got in trouble with someone for who knows what I said as I have no idea :confuse: what the person meant. And if you thought I meant you were going to take a pot shot at me, that was not meant for you.
That was meant for someone who posted something not very nice to me with no explanation of what it was I was supposed to have said.
So I am sorry if you think I was taking a Flame at you. That was not what I intended it to sound like. It was concern I was voicing not to have your dealer mad in the beginning of buying a vehicle and telling them you are putting them on notice.
The question I have, though, relates to trying to find some rhyme or reason to which models are having fuel pump failures. It seems that both GLS and SE models are having issues, so I am now trying to narrow it down another level. Some people have indicated that their cars were PZEV, others have not. I'm wondering if many are not even aware if their cars are PZEV. There was speculation earlier in this discussion as to whether the issue only affects models equipped with PZEV . . . so I'm just wondering if we could get some feedback to find out if any of the previously mentioned fuel pump failures occurred on vehicles not having PZEV.
I noticed today and yesterday too come to think of it that mine is acting like it is puttering under 30 miles but once you get over 30 miles it has lots of go. I hope that is not a sign my fuel pump is going. :shades:
Drive safely!
I also bought the three volumes of workshop manuals for the 2008 Elantra for reference or for fixing my daughters 2008 Elantra just in case I need it. I checked the specs of the fuel pump on these manuals but it does not mention any reference to a fuel pump for a PZEV, GLS or SE vehicle. I can only assume that they all have the same fuel pumps. It's only Hyundai's part dept that can tell you if they have updated versions of these fuel pump. Just in case somebody wants to replace their fuel pump on their Elantra, the fuel pump is located underneath the rear seat cushion. After removing the cushion, remove the access panel to get to the pump.
By the way, my mother lives in NJ and somehow she ended up with an Elantra SE with PZEV. I think sometimes states bordering the "green" states often get PZEV vehicles. Dealerships are always swapping. She just bought the car on Monday and then I hear about all of the fuel pump problems. No problems yet, but I'm just worried for her that she is going to stall out somewhere. I'm not happy at all with this situation.
What is your opinion about pro-actively installing a new fuel pump even if there hasn't been a problem yet? My concern is for my 70-year old mother who just bought her Elantra last week. I am very nervous about the possibility of her stalling out in an intersection, not being able to handle the car if it starts to sputter/stall. The thought of her being stranded on the side of a road makes me queasy. I'd be willing to have the car dealer install the new pump at my cost . . . but am I taking a gamble?? If the replacement pumps are the same manufacturer/vendor, is there just as likely a chance that the replacement pump could be defective? In reading the posts, however, I really haven't encountered many (maybe only one) whose pump failed again after replacement. Does anyone know if the replacement pumps are from a different manufacturer?
A good place to see the difference in the 2 is www.hyundai.com. I even registered my Vin# and it told me when the car came into NY and where it originated out of the Port Of NJ. And they also send you coupons and reminders once you start having service.
And why put a pump in yourself when its free and under warranty. Didn't you see the good warranties your daughter's car has?
I seriously doubt someone wanting to change the fuel pump themselves could get one too if the dealers have to wait in line for them to come from Korea.
You are lucky you can fix some things, but heck.... with the 4 warranties I have I would go to the dealer free instead of having to fork out my own money. And if the fuel pump goes they do give you a loaner car free.
I say....Life's a chance....it does or it doesn't happen. I just hope they recall the pumps before mine goes.
It would be interesting if you register hers and see if it originated out of Highpoint Hyundai like ours did. I would be very curious to know what you find out.
Do what I did too...I had the carfax for one month when I started looking for a used vehicle. And then saw the ad in the paper for a Hyundai Sonata. And the price was only a few thousand more than 2005 cars I was looking at.
I went to buy a Sonata, have a 32" inseam and couldn't drive the darn car. My foot was flipping backwards on the gas petal. I couldn't have that as I broke that ankle in 93. So, hubby has shorter legs and he was thinking about the Sonata for himself.
Then when I got dissapointed the salesman said would I like to test drive the Elantra. I had already tried to drive all the Nissan's and Kia models and had the leg room problem. But said ok. And was really surprised I had leg room. When hubby saw the price on mine and the comfort, thats when he decided to get one too. He could have gotten the Sonata, short legs he has. But the price was good and the ride was fantastic that we took for a test drive.
OK..so Carfax says my car was service 3 weeks before I bought it. As I ran the Vin # since I still had 3 weeks of it. Hubby's car was not serviced. So I figured maybe the fuel pump had to be swapped out in NY once the car came over from NJ due to the emissions in NY now. Hubby took the car in the showroom.
So, I am hoping my fuel pump was changed. The dealer told me it was just a routine service. Now, since when does a new car not sold get a service job done? And I plan on calling Hyundai tomorrow and asking THEM what was reported as serviced.
PZEV by the way is not the engine type. It is the emission type (PZEV=Partial Zero-Emmision vehicle). Engines for the 2008 Elantra GLS & SE are both the same. If I was positive that the fuel pump on my daughters vehicle is the problem pump, and because it's easy to access,I would replace it in a heartbeat. Money I can always find. My daughter is priceless.
I know that life is a chance but I try to better my chances.