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2009/2010 Honda Fit

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Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Your wish has been granted...

    image
  • mainemanxmainemanx Member Posts: 70
    OMG! Squashed Fit? Fit left in the washer too long? Hasn't fully hatched?
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >1500 lbs, max 55 mph, high-mileage, minimally regulated, four wheel, four passenger Segways!

    That were the specs of the Citroen 2 CV when first models were produced in 1949; Its flat-2 cyl 385 cc (yes 10% of the Buick Regal V6 displacement) was able to output 13 cv and it was very economical for the time. 4, even 5 could seat. The suspensions were compliant enough for the car to go through unpaved roads while carrying eggs and keeping them intact even up to 37 mph.

    Later models were boosted to 425 cc with 18 hp and could reach 65 mph...
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Lol-
    It almost looks like a photochopped version of the Fit.
    Is that the new car from India?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The Nano, yes.
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Looks like a safe highway cruiser. :P
    Micro wheels, high center of gravity, a stiff wind would probably blow it right over.
  • jacksan1jacksan1 Member Posts: 504
    You guys are forgetting about one very critical automotive safety piece in India, and that is "it's the cows," not you. You have to build a car in such a way that when your car, God forbid, ends up having a collision with a cow, the survivor must be the cow, not your car, since the cow may be your great-grand father. :P
  • mainemanxmainemanx Member Posts: 70
    My Goodness! I almost regret starting this.

    As for the Nano itself, I think the deux chevaux has more character.

    Per Wikipedia and LJK Setright, the 2CV was "The most intelligent application of minimalism ever to succeed as a car. It was designed for low cost, simplicity, versatility, reliability, and off-road driving."
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    Hi, Yeah--these are my concerns too re: no seat height adjustment or VSC.

    I too am grappling between Elantra Touring versus 09 Fit...

    I heard the Elantra Touring looks a lot like the Matrix, though--and I really don't care for those raised up, bubble like ends...I prefer a more straight hatchback look (the square of the Fit). But I could live with it...

    Would there be ways to compensate for seat height adjustment? A cushion?

    Gee, you would think that would be basic, since so many different size people use any given car....I'm only 5'2"...

    In any case, does anyone have any clearer sense of when exactly either of these cars are going to be available?

    Are the waiting lists I should look into?

    Thanks in advance if anyone has suggestions!
    This seems to be such a weird in between/ limbo time, but it gives me time to consider options which is good! :)
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >.I'm only 5'2"...

    My wife is 5'1" and she is doing OK with the current Fit. Seat height is set to the middle so that we don't need to reajust it when I take the wheel.

    The only way will be for you to do a test drive.

    My previous test drive convinced me that I don't need to upgrade but that is for anyone to decide.

    an Elantra Touring is a pretty much bigger car. Otoh, there is not a strong offer of small hatchbacks like we can find in Europe, so I understand the stretch.
  • southpaw76southpaw76 Member Posts: 3
    It's cheap and cute and most definitely fuel efficient, but India's safety standards are a far cry from America's. You'll notice that even the Japanese and American versions of the Fit differ (bigger bumpers in the front and rear in the US), because Honda of America was looking for that elusive 5-star crash test rating on a sub-compact (And they did it!).

    The Nano will never see the light of day in America without some major revisions including a larger engine (Can't forget about all of those aggressive highway drivers you have to deal with out there.) and a reinforced front and back end (i.e. longer nose and rear to the car).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Yes, but you got the seat height adjuster! Maybe someday Honda will give U.S. Fit buyers all the amenities people in other countries enjoy.

    The Elantra Touring is much bigger than the Fit, in length and also interior room (in the EPA mid-sized class), but there aren't that many small 5-door hatches/wagons to choose from in the U.S., and very few that offer ESC standard as does the Touring (the 2009 Rabbit and Impreza wagon are others).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I posted the photo with tongue firmly planted in my cheek. It was a reply to a wish from someone for a small, light, cheap, basic car. It exists. I don't know too many Americans who would want to drive one, however. It's a big step down from even the barest-bones cars we could buy here 20-25 years ago. And the Fit is a big step up from those cars, especially in safety and power.
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    BTW, I was test-driving a Civic yesterday, and I did sit just briefly in an 'O8 Fit, and it seemed to be high enough, even for me--but I was only inside for a moment...

    It was a cute car, and I imagine the '09 will even be nicer...you can adjust the back of the seat of course, which helps prop your torso up a tad, which then gives you a bit more height...but still, that is clearly not the same of course..I think they goofed with not including that...

    I'd be curious, Backy to hear what you decide upon for your new pic this year, if you don't mind--cause it sounds like you and I have been sort of looking at some similar choices.... :D
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I'll be sure to post what I finally get. If it does turn out the 2009 Fit gets VSA on every trim, that will be a top contender. If not... on to the others on my list.
  • mainemanxmainemanx Member Posts: 70
    > [Those] were the specs of the Citroen 2 CV when [the] first models were produced in 1949; Its flat-2 cyl 385 cc (yes 10% of the Buick Regal V6 displacement) was able to output 13 cv and it was very economical for the time. 4, even 5 could seat. The suspensions were compliant enough for the car to go through unpaved roads while carrying eggs and keeping them intact even up to 37 mph.

    > Later models were boosted to 425 cc with 18 hp and could reach 65 mph...

    "Ask and you shall receive." They're thinking of bringing it back!
    Citroen 2CV
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    I enjoy my 1978 AMI 8 which is based on the 2 CV

    But such car won't come back again because of crash test compliance issues. A 2CV was maybe half the weight of a fit, but would fare very very poorly in a crash in comparison to a Fit. Those cars are separated by 50 years of car development after all.

    the closest 2CV replacement was maybe the Citroen C3
    image
    which look was inspired by the ancestor. It is a modern car though and a competitor to the honda fit with similar size and weight. The difference comes from the choice of powertrains :
    Gas : 1.1 , 1.4 (with stop/start) 1.6 with manual, single clutch automated or slushbox) (60 to 110 hp)
    Diesel : 1.4 , 1.6 70 to 110 hp

    a diesel Fit with a double clutch automated box would be a good compromise between performance and fuel efficiency. it is not for tomorrow.
  • fitmefitme Member Posts: 1
    I really love this small car. I am definitely getting one IF it will have a height adjustment seat in the U.S.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Thanks to a poster on the Civic discussions, here is a link to all the details on the 2009 Honda models, including the Fit:

    http://vtec.net/news/news-item?news_item_id=780325

    Note that VSA is confirmed to be "available" on the Sport only, so it appears that earlier reports that it's only on Sport with nav are correct. Also note that power windows are shown as a new feature for the base model. But the current Fit has power windows. :confuse:

    And... no mention of a driver's seat height adjuster :( , but the telescopic wheel is confirmed. :)
  • upstatedocupstatedoc Member Posts: 710
    Aahh, backy, you beat me to it!
  • southpaw76southpaw76 Member Posts: 3
    How do I post a picture?
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    when writing your post, press the "Img" button once, write /paste the link to the picture, then print the "Img" button a second time. there you are
  • martinshevmartinshev Member Posts: 1
    Car look better without the door side protectors...but they also look bad with dings on the doors. I dont see those side door trim protection on the current Fit models, is that an option? I havent seen any pics with them.

    thanks,
    MartinLane
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    Mine were dealer-installed accessories.
    They saved my doors quite a few times.
  • joem5joem5 Member Posts: 201
    IF Yaris,Fit,and Scion were to give the mini a little competition?
    Let's have a sunroof, and heated seats as an option. I bet they would sell.
    Mini has that class action suit and replacining a tranny or clutch at 7k a whack,who'd buy a mini?
    Honda, Toyota @ nissan build a better car. I don't feel for GM or Ford. GM is building 3 plants in China and Ford took it's hatches to Europe.
    Let's face we are going to become a nation of small cars. :shades:
  • coop13coop13 Member Posts: 1
    Salem, we are like-minded. I was wondering about the terms of your agreement with the dealer. How much did you have to put down? Is it refundable? How did they deal with price, since MSRP hasn't been released for the '09s?

    I, too, preordered an '09 Fit, Sport AT in Red. I checked with the dealers around the Portland area and the prices for the '08s were running between $995-$2000 over MSRP. I was very reluctant to pay more than sticker! But I realize it happens when a vehicle's demand outpaces the supply. It was really hard to get a look at one here--they were leaving as soon as they got to the dealership. And it was even harder to get to drive one. Most were pre-sold and unavailable for a test drive. I did get to drive an '08 Auto Base model. Let me know how your purchase works out.
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    new info on 09 Fit including pricing.

    Finally, more details on the 09 Fit. I am not sure if the prices includes destination fees but it seems like a big bump from the 08. Perhaps the increased demand calls for that. Anyway, I will still get one when it comes out.

    One feature that's gone is probably the refresh mode that people have been talking about - the ability to make a bed.
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    Something is weird about this article. How is it that a small-town paper has all this info on the new Fit - full pricing info, EPA milage, included and excluded features - while the rest of the world doesn't have any of it?
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Almost $19.5k for a Fit with automatic and VSA. :sick:
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    I have no idea where that guy gets his info from (the article is written on the 5th and so far nobody else has that kind of info). He seems to actually tested the car. A careful re-reading indicates that the price listed does NOT include destination charge. I hope this is fake. If the real price is that much Honda may lose a lot of budget-minded buyers to competitions, unless they are actually trying to attract former SUV drivers.

    BTW, Consumer Reports says that VSA is really important that every car should have it. I am still debating whether to get the NAV model just so I can have VSA. I really dont' want the nav as my Garmin Nuvi 880 is a a lot better and includes bluetooth. If the above article is true then the model w/ nav and VSA may be out of my budget anyway.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    What tells you the prices in the article don't include destination charge? If not, and if they are accurate, they would be a HUGE increase over the 2008 prices (not even considering the new options i.e. NAV and VSA).
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    The plot thickens - the page has now been taken down! My guess is that the info is legitimate, but that they accidentally posted the review earlier than they were allowed to under their NDA with Honda. Which is rather disappointing, as both the MSRP and MPG numbers were worse than I was hoping to see.
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    On the right side of the article is info on engine, mileage (about same as current Fit) and pricing of the "tested" sport Fit model and it has base price plus destination. Compare it w/ the prices listed in the article, it seems that the article prices do not include destination charge - but I am not absolutely sure as I don't remember the real figures.

    Just to confirm that, I went back to the article - was there about half an hour ago and suddenly disappeared. The article posting date is 8/5, the same date that Fitfreaks posted the new year model change list. Maybe it IS a fake article and the publisher decides to take it down, or it's real and Honda didn't want it to publish any info right now so they have it taken down, or the web server is temporarily down.

    Too bad I didn't write down the prices before the article was taken down, but the base model it said starts almost 16000 for manual (800 more for auto). Again I am not absolutely sure of the figure so unless the article is back online we will not know.
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    :P mappo: Hah, you beat me by 2 seconds!
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    Assuming it's not a fake (I don't think it is, this is a real newspaper after all) the page will be back up when the official NDA expiration occurs and everyone else posts their reviews too. Probably a day or two away.

    The price increase is very disappointing, but in hindsight not surprising given the heightened demand for smaller cars and the recent slide in the value of the dollar vs. the yen. The mileage numbers are both disappointing and surprising though. I thought the new engine was supposed to get significantly better mileage than the '08 Fit, yet that article listed the same specs as '08.

    Given this price and mileage info, I'm going to take a closer look at the 5-door Yaris hatchback that Toyota is supposedly bringing out for 09...
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    Ok, someone else posted the same article on the Fitfreak site so I just copied and pasted the contents here:

    Auto review: 2009 Honda Fit Sport

    By FRANK A. AUKOFER
    Special to the Journal Sentinel

    Posted: Aug. 5, 2008

    The automobile business is all about predicting the future.
    With development time for a new model of four or five years, decisions are made on the best information available at the time. Still, it can be a crap shoot.

    When Honda introduced its entry-level Fit in 2006, big pickup trucks and truck-based sport utility vehicles were riding high. The Fit was viewed as a mildly interesting vehicle for a small niche of buyers.

    Despite that, in typical Honda fashion, the little car--it already had developed a reputation in foreign markets as the Honda Jazz--had practical appeal beyond its small size: outstanding fuel economy, good handling and an interior that could be configured in a variety of ways for people and cargo. More than one evaluator called it "the Swiss Army knife of automobiles."

    With escalating fuel prices, the Fit's niche ballooned and Honda's decision to sell it in the United States looked prescient. Fits rolled off dealers' lots as soon as they rolled in.

    Never one to rest on its laurels, Honda sends a new, slightly larger and more expensive, more powerful and refined Fit for 2009. Though marketed as an entry-level subcompact, the new Fit has the interior volume of a compact car, and is not far from mid-size in terms of its interior accommodations.

    Newly styled, with a racier appearance and a more complicated rear end, the Fit is five inches longer than the original. It weighs about 120 pounds more, but does not gain much in interior space--just one cubic foot.

    One feature--the ability to flop the passenger-side seats to make a bed--is gone because surveys showed owners weren't using it. Nevertheless, the Swiss Army knife analogy continues. The back seats can be easily flipped and flopped into a variety of configurations to carry tall objects as well as long ones.

    The back seat gets a bit more knee and hip room, and the seatbacks recline to provide more comfortable seating. There's enough room in the outboard positions to keep adults from complaining unduly on longer trips, though the center-rear position is cramped and should be reserved for occasional use.

    Up front, the bucket seats, covered in a sturdy cloth, are big and comfortable, with good thigh support. The steering wheel tilts and telescopes, which makes it easy for people of different sizes to find a comfortable driving position.

    Safety equipment includes side air bags and side-curtain air bags, antilock brakes, electronic brake distribution and tire-pressure monitoring. But it does not include traction control, which Honda calls VSA, or vehicle stability assist.

    VSA is available, but only if you order the satellite navigation system, an unusual option in this class of car. The combination, available only on the Fit Sport, costs an additional $1,850.

    Air conditioning is standard, as are power windows, mirrors and door locks, and a stereo system with CD changer, MP3 capability and an audio device input jack. Unfortunately, XM satellite radio is not available. If you want it, you'll have to buy an aftermarket unit. One odd shortcoming is the sun visors. They're small and don't adequately block the sun from the side. Honda solves this problem on other models by simply enabling the visors to slide on their support rods, but not on the Fit's.
    There are three Fit models: the base car, with a five-speed manual gearbox, starts at $15,220. It has steel wheels with wheel covers and does not have cruise control or map lights. The five-speed automatic transmission costs an additional $800, but does not have the steering-wheel mounted paddle shifters that come with the automatic on the Fit Sport model.

    The Fit Sport, which Honda expects will account for about seven of 10 Fit sales, starts at $16,730 with the stick shift. The automatic transmission, with the manual-shift mode and the paddle shifters, is $850 extra.
    If you want the VSA and the navigation system, the sticker price is $18,580. Check the box for the automatic transmission and the suggested delivered price comes to $19,430. You can't spend any more unless you order dealer-installed accessories.

    On the road, the Fit exhibits a quiet, supple, compliant ride and precise handling. It's no sports sedan but it can carve corners with a lot of more expensive machinery. Acceleration is adequate, accompanied by some engine roar at high engine revolutions.

    The five-speed manual, in typical Honda fashion, shifts effortlessly, and the Sport model's automatic transmission paddle shifters provide an extra driving dimension, especially to hold a gear on twisting mountain roads.
    Honda expects to sell about 85,000 Fits annually. If the current trend toward small cars continues, it appears to have a solid future.

    "At Honda, we always recognize times like this as an opportunity for growth," says Dan Bonawitz, the vice president for corporate planning and logistics. "We generally grow two to three percent in both up and down markets. Our business strategy is more like the tortoise than the hare."
    So far at least, that tactic seems to work better than consulting futurists or soothsayers.

    Side bar content:

    Model: 2009 Honda Fit Sport four-door hatchback.
    Engine: 1.5-liter four-cylinder, 117 horsepower.
    Transmission: Five-speed automatic with manual-shift mode.
    Overall length: 13 feet 6 inches.
    EPA passenger/cargo volume: 91/21 cubic feet.
    Weight: 2,604 pounds.
    EPA city/highway fuel consumption: 27/33 miles per gallon.
    Base price, including destination charge: $17,580.
    Base dealer cost: $16,983.
    Price as tested: $17,580.
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    Here are the MSRPs, including delivery charge, summarized from the article. About a $1,500 increase from '08!
    (edited from my original post to correct for my stupidity)

    Base Fit Manual - $15,220
    Base Fit Auto - $16,020
    Sport Fit Manual - $16,730
    Sport Fit Auto - $17,580

    VSA+Nav adds $1,850, available only on Fit Sport.
  • wgewge Member Posts: 16
    So, the '09 base manual will have an MSRP including the destination fee ($670) of $15,890. I expected a pretty big increase over the '08 which is why I bought the '08 for $14,585 which includes the destination charge, and which then was $635. The net savings was $1,305 going with the '08. It is interesting that there is no change in mileage estimates. I'm glad I got the '08, which is a more attractive package, in my opinion, in many respects.
  • rorjorrorjor Member Posts: 1
    Wow!! , 9.1 % more in the base model. (13.950 to 15.220); have the same engine??
  • kittyworldkittyworld Member Posts: 20
    I think this article is real. I just googled this author and he's a serious auto journalist:

    click here for youtube video interviewing Frank Aukofer.

    I think he wrote the article on the 5th, but didn't link it to the home page, so nobody would find the article, but then since it's on the server google found it and indexed it. When I found the article last night via google, it was only indexed a few hours ago. Once we start to discuss this article the info gets to the author (or maybe he regularly reads our posts too and may even be one of the poster - who knows) it was immediately taken down. Knowing that the author is a legit journalist w/ a long history of auto reporting made me believe that the article is genuine. Now we can all sit back and cry about the price hike! :cry:

    Oh, the author mentioned that the viser is too small to block the sun on the side. Does anyone know if there's any aftermarket accessories that we can use to remedy that (not necessarily for the Fit; if it's designed for universal use it's ok too)?
  • vchiuvchiu Member Posts: 564
    >the '08, which is a more attractive package, in my opinion, in many respects.

    I concur. The very short test I made did not make a strong impression on me. There is no justification for such a price increase. If there is really a difference in road noise insulation, this would be the most worthy difference. other differences are down to some detail.

    People looking for a budget car would rather make a good deal on a 08.

    I think however the price increase has little to do with the model change and much more with the weak USD. in 3 years, the USD has dropped from over 8 RMB to less than 6.7 RMB , whereas steel and other raw materials have increased. Cars with small margins are the most likely to get impacted. This is a golden opportunity for made-in-US/USD-zone cars
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There is no justification for such a price increase.

    Sure there is. The justification is that Honda has no trouble selling all the Fits they can ship here, so why not raise the price and see what the market will bear? :P
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    That's disappointing news. I agree there is no ethical justification (aside from corporate greed to exploit the existing hunger for the FIT) for such a price increase--especially if the dealers won't negotiate and go a little lower.

    Is it true they are insisting on MSRP or even higher, like they do with the Prius frenzy? If so, both Dealers and Honda corp. will make windfall profits from this.

    When I was looking at Prius, I found a couple of ethical dealers who promised no-more than MSRP and stood behind that--so if you are going to go for one, make sure you look for this and get that in writing with your deposit/ allocation fee/ wait list fee.

    I'm sure it's a great little Hatchback though, so I understand the anguish in deciding if it's worth it.

    Personally, I would wait it out 'till things calm down more if you aren't desperate for the FIT right now....
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Are you saying it is unethical for a company to try to get top dollar for its products? I agree it is unethical if there is no alternative to the product--e.g., if a company is the only supplier of fresh water in a town hit by a flood and they start charging $25 a gallon for it. But there are many alternatives to the Fit. If people don't like the price, they can go elsewhere. And if enough of them do that, the price of the Fit will come down.
  • mappomappo Member Posts: 12
    I misspoke in my post yesterday - prices are only up about $600-$800 depending on trim level. That's not really so much considering the '09 is an all new car that's bigger, quieter, sturdier, has a more powerful engine and is better handling than the '08.
  • schteveschteve Member Posts: 3
    I must agree. I'm as Socialist as the next guy (okay, more Socialist than the next guy) but we live in a Capitalist Free Market economy. Can't say people are "unethical" because they're playing by the rules.
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    I don't call overinflated pricing and refusing to negotiate and even charging over MSRP "playing by the rules".

    But we could go on and on about this. And I'm not going to, cause it comes down to your personal values and ethics. Just because we live in a Capitalist society, doesn't mean we each have our limits as to what we believe to be reasonable.

    Cappo said it's not as bad as originally thought--so maybe the prices are justified in this case for the new upgrades.

    Choices? Eh..naw...they're really not that hot in terms of an affordable (under $20,000) safe, reliable low MPG hatchback with very good scores in key areas.

    I know for me, I will never buy a car at or over MSRP. That's just insane.
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    In fact, I don't know if there are ANY choices out there that match up to the Fit's features....Are there?

    (Sorry for the mispelling, Mappo--I couldn't see your user name as I was posting).
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There's several good alternatives for MY 2009: Yaris (3-door and 5-door), Matrix, Rio5, Spectra5, Vibe, Versa, and Elantra Touring for starters. Going down the FE scale just a bit, Mazda3s, Impreza, Rabbit, Caliber, and SX4. And for those who really want a low-bucks 5-door, there's the Aveo. Before I would spend nearly $20k on a Fit, I'd take a close, close look at several of these vehicles, plus some really nice sedans that can be had for well under $20k (since I could live with a sedan or hatch for my next car).

    Many alternatives out there. At least one even has an "H" on the front and back, just like the Fit. ;)
  • skepticalskeptical Member Posts: 65
    Wow--you really clearly have spent a lot of time researching cars!

    Thanks for saving me so much time--my days and life are far to jammed to keep up with all the details you keep sharing so generously.

    Although of course 'good alternatives" does not always add up to "as good as" (or maybe I'm just being skeptical ;) )

    So if you don't mind indulging me, can you clue me (us) in on how each of the cars you mentioned match up to the Fit in terms of:

    *price
    *safety
    *gas mileage
    *overall quality and reliability

    (These four are my biggest priorities).

    More to the point:
    Would you say any of the cars you mentioned are as equally good (or even better) in ALL four areas? If so, would you care to name them?

    Also, which hatchback are you referring to that is Honda other than the Fit?

    Thanks in advance for your thoughts--they are very helpful!
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