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Pardon me for being hasty, but I'm very eager to hear updates from you about your Odyssey. Has the pinging returned on your car?
Thanks very much. Crossing my fingers for you (and me).
How's it going with your Odyssey? Could you update on whether the engine ping has come back since you took it in to change the knock sensor?
Thanks very much.
Since taking it to the dealership for service (as noted in an earlier post) I still have zero ping. I am now at my second complete tank of gas an no ping.
I have tried all the things that would normally make the van ping like nuts such as gas it hard, ease off quickly and then gas it hard again. also acc. with sound reflection off a wall and zero. I can safely say that the ping is gone.
RE: Fuel economy - my fuel economy difference is not enough to really judge - I got 450KM on 60L of mostly city (but not all). That is not good but not pathetic either. if there is an improvement, it is likley no more than 10%.
best of luck to the lot of ya. :shades:
Thanks very much for the eagerly awaited update. Congradulations on your successful resolution!
If you don't mind, I have another question: Prior to changing the knock sensor, did you try using in 91 octane (or even 94 octane at Sunoco) gasoline? If so, did you notice a significant reduction -- but not necessarily a complete absence -- in the occurance and/or severity of the pinging noise?
Right now, I can eliminate almost all the pinging in my car by using 91 octane gasoline -- save when I accelerate up the steep on-ramp at the Spadina junction of the Gardiner and upon heavy acceleration after coming out of a traffic jam.
The thing is, based on my understanding, if my odyssey's pinging is due to a faulty knock sensor, then the octane rating of the gasoline I put in should not make a difference on the amount of pinging experienced, since a poorly timed ignition is going to pre-maturly ignite a fuel-air mixture regardless of the octane rating of the fuel. On the other hand, if a good knock sensor moves the ignition timing back far after top-dead-centre, the fuel is still going to have the same probability of detonating prior to spark ignition; whatever that caused detonation prior to ignition timing adjustment -- be it an over-heated cylinder wall, too lean of a fuel-air mixture, or excess carbon deposites (shouldn't be the case in new cars) -- would still be there after timing adjustment.
Appreciate your input.
Thanks and congradulations again.
Let me know how things go.
More importantly, Honda is also well aware of this problem, and apparently Honda Engineering is working on a new knock sensor replacement. The service manager said that the new knock sensor should eliminate the ping problem.
His exact words were that we "would receive a letter in the mail" notifying us of the new knock sensor replacement. He did not know when, but it sounds like it may not be too far off. For the sake of our engine's valves, the sooner the better.
I don't know about how to answer the association between ping, poor timing and octane. to speak from personal experience, there is a direct relationship between ping, timing and octane as i had found in a carbourated 1984 chrys voyager minivan (the original) that I had. manual adjustment of the timing on that vehicle via the crude distributor adjustment resulted in the vehicle performing better at different octane fuels. ie. adjusted one way resulted in bad ping at acceleration if at low rpm but awesome fuel economy when cruising in 5th gear (yes it was a stick) high octane at this adjustment setting allowed me to have far less ping. note that i don't believe the 72hp 2.2 even had knock sensors in 1984 so that kind of messing around was possible.
the odyssey we drive is a very self-aware machine. if there is a ping, the puter will sense it and adjust accordingly. If the pings are pluralized beyond a threshold the puter will log it and hopefully give out a cel to let you know that it had failed in reducing the ping. Given that you got ping and the puter has not immediately gotten rid of the ping (or given you a cel if it failed) it appears that the puter did not even notice the ping.
If I were a real smart automotive technician (which i assure you i am not) i would clamp in a scope with logger directly to the line connecting the knock sensors and the engine and see if ther is a signal produced when knock occurs and if so, if the signal is sufficent to trip the computer.
most of us here are not experts with this sort of thing nor do we have the vast resources that the manufacturers and dealerships have - we need our vehicles to do our work and haul kids. digging deep into analysis without any of the time tools or training is a stress best avoided. the best we can do is to be informed enought to keep those in the service department from providing the easy half-assed answers we all dread or even worse the denal of the existance of a problem. I was very lucky that I got strait talk right from the beginning with my dealership "roadsport honda" lets hope you and the rest get the same.
:lemon: --->
All of you that are having this problem should do the same. This is total BS what Honda is doing. They should just make it correct even if it means buying this [non-permissible content removed] van back. Personally because of the entire experience with the way this was handled I will never purchase another HONDA product. They are worthless and do not stand behind the warranty when a problem exisits. Anyone look into a class action? How to start one, etc?
http://hondaodysseysucks.lefora.com/forum/category/all/page1/
I do agree with yall on this engine problem and sympathize with many of you who have gone thru a lot of hardships with this van. But, Im not the type of person who is gonna sit quitely on this issue and none of u should either because this is ur hard earned $$ on the line which Honda has decided to play with. Here's my 2 cents on hitting Honda where it hurts. The reason Honda doesn't care abt us right now is because we are a small minority on this forum and some more like this. The majority are new customers who have no clue unless they are looking at our forum before they decide to purchase or not...therefore Honda is enjoying there great sales per quarter. The point is that we need to get our voice out there by using the power of www...now I dont know abt u guyz but I can right now send a mass email out to a 100 active email boxes with this Honda issue. IF enough of you participate Im predicting in 90 days apprx over a 100K ++ ppl will be aware of this issue across U.S and Canada...and trust me Honda will find out. Here's another thing, Im gonna cc Honda America and Canada on this email to show them what we can do if they dont fix this issue very soon....to be cont on item #4. 1.) we are already filling complaints with our local dealer and Im sure they are communicating with Honda..but maybe Honda doesn't care. 2.) File a complaint on the website http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov ...like someone suggested earlier but I dont know how affective this is gonna be. 3.) Practice the lemon law and file a class action...requires time and $$...u may get some of ur $$ back if u win..maybe. 4.) I will take the time to create a firey letter to Honda abt this particular problem and others which are being disscussed in other Honda forums. I'll run the letter by my attorney for some legal terms. When the letter is ready I will then share it on this forum and if u are ok with it then share ur email with me...i will then email all my contact and u guyz. From that point on all Odyssey owners will print/sign and move it fwd...non Odyssey owners will just do us a favor and fwd the email to everyone they know. Its past 1am here on the East Coast right now..gotta get some sleep. Pls give me some feed back on this forum and or email me directly at eric61775@hotmail.com.....sorry abt all this long reading u had to do...thanks.
You bought at Scott right?
If so, let me know if you are still there.
I had a meeting with Scott this week.....
My 2007 EX-L knocks like crazy on a hill. Our neighbors turned around to look a few days ago. Embarrassing. Higher octane gas makes a little difference but the engine still knocks. I have an appt for next week.
I also have the steering knock. I have brought it in before and they professed not to have heard it. I will insist this time.
hope it works! I wont be able to tell untill the roads dry up around here, which doesn't look like anytime soon.
I ran it through the normal things that set it off, and I only heard it a little tiny bit.
Not nearly as much as it was before. I am not going to complain just yet. I want to run it for at least a few days and see what it does.
I am keeping my fingers crossed!
BTW, engine pinging can also result from a failed EGR valves, if it fails closed. This was a common problem on pre-knock sensor vehicles. With a properly functioning knock sensor, the timing would be retarded, so no pinging.
The reason why a vehicle would ping with a failed closed EGR valve was that the EGR valve dilutes the fuel-air mixture and the base ignition timing is slightly advanced to compensate. When the EGR is no longer functioning, the timing is too far advanced for the mixture and pinging occurs. Of course, this is only in vehicles not equipped with a knock sensor.
I took my car to my dealership. They replaced the the knock sensor after I told them the TSB issued by American Honda, which someone posted on this forum earlier. The service soon manager searched Honda Canada's database found a TSB that he said was just like the American Honda one, but with a different number. Regardless, they changed it, and my engine is totally ping free. Ran it on 87 octane. I drove up slope, pressing gas, stop and go traffic -- all those road conditions which caused pinging before. No more ping! The engine also FEELS more powerful and sounds quiet overall.
So, it seems, based on my experience that the new knock sensor they put in now SHOULD NOT be defective.
Good luck, and go get those dealerships!
the Honda attorney claims that my vehicle was fixed because they had their expert drive it for about 10 miles and the ping was not audible. You all know my van is still making the ping just like yours is.
If any one would like to have input on my (our) court case...( I have to get it ok'd with my attorney)but will be giving my cell # and will set up an e-mail address for better communication. At this point, I am fighting for all of us who are being bullied by Honda. I have a trial meeting on November 4th. If I win, Honda will have a huge chink in their armor. It will be a jury trial, so the more of you that can write letters sharing your experiences might help the jury decide against Honda. They can paint me as a complainer but they surely can not paint 8 or 9 or 50 of us as just complainers. If you are local, you might even agree to be a witness.
I have fought long and hard and now we all have a forum at our finger tips. I am not alone and hope that you will help our situation by acting. I will write a letter for any one that has a court date. Please let me know where to send it. Together we have a chance. The odds are long but we have a punchers chance. If....we stick together. Divided we fall. Honda knows this. Help me help you.
Please do keep the rest of us posted on the outcome of your case. It may assist my case if you can bust through the BS.
Thanks,
ping, ping, ping,
It might be time to unload at 34k miles.
I am new to the forum. I have a 2007 Ody that had a strange noise from day one. I took it to the dealer and they wanted to change my transmission?! I didn't let them do that. I put that issue aside for a while, trying to find time to put the car on the dyno and try to diagnose the problem myself. It always seem to happen around 40-45 mph going up the hill. That noise sounded like a ping but It was very light. Maybe running on Shell Premium Fuel all the time had something to do with it.
For some reason, I decided to use 87 octane (Mid Grade in high country states) and the noise increased in amplitude. More then that, it happens even when you let off the gas. Now it definitely feels like the engine is knocking.
I got a hold of TSB08-071 that talks about the problem. If anyone is interested, I can send it over via e-mail. Please note that this is a an issue different than the one in TSB07-028 which is the one related to the noise made by the intermediate shaft heat shield.
I would say that people that have the 07-028 problem vs the 08-071 problem should consider themselves lucky.
Engine knock is a very severe malfunction. That can lead to engine damage.
I will take my car to the dealer to have my knock sensor replaced. Odd enough, I spoke to the same guy that wanted to replace my transmission and he said knock shouldn't be to bad for the engine. I wish they hire people that know what they are talking about.
Since the knock was minor to moderate maybe the engine is not in a bad shape. A bore scope can be used to visually inspect the combustion chamber, cylinder and piston surface. I will ask the dealership to do it. If they don't want to I will have to do it myself.
I will let you know about the outcome of this service visit.
You are very wise to use a bore scope to inspect your engine. Unfortunately, I, and likely many folks on this forum, do not have access to such equipment. I, for one, am very eager to know how much damage engine ping has on Odysseys. Please share with us what you discover after the proceedure isdone.
Many thanks in advance.
Steven
BTW - Congrats on your victory! Come back and let us know how your new ____ (Sienna?) works out.
Thanks much.
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/A08-071.PDF
I bought my new 08-EX three weeks ago and having the something. I drove it with the service tech and off-course he could not hear it and made me look like I’m crazy. Also my VIN number is newer than the VIN range under the TSB. Is your VIN within the range?
I just put in it a full tank of premium gas and the knocking noise is almost %99 gone. That explains why when I test drove it I did not hear the noise because the dealer used premium fuel.
So at this point I’m not sure if I should fight with them and let them mess with the new engine or that is just normal engine noise.
it is colder than heck and I dont have the windows down when I am driving.
When I first got it done, it seemed to quiet it down. I will find out in the spring I guess. Here is a GREAT way to test it though. I found this method by accident when out with the service manager, and the Honda NA rep. trying to get them to hear the noise, (that no one could hear except fom myself and my wife) there is an underpass right around the corner from the dealership where I bought the odyssey.
I sat in the underpass with the windows open and had one foot on the gas and one on the brake, and kind of line locked it. (except it wasnt for fun) That made the ping loud and clear. It was at that point when they said, OH, I hear it now...
If you can find an enclosed space like that and do that, (hit the gas and brake at the same time) It will come out.
I will go back there when it gets warm, and I have time and see if it is still doing it.
I suspect it will. We really wish we went with the Toyota.