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BMW 335i vs Infiniti G37

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Comments

  • getzgetz Member Posts: 24
    Ten grand doesn't make a huge difference to me when comparing cars. I find similar cars in my cost point, drive them, and pick the one that I like better. It appears that you feel the only difference between the two it the price difference. I see a much greater gap, so I'll post what I liked.
    1) BMW is much much faster, 1/2 second to 60 mph, as well as a much higher trap speed in the quarter mile. Although you'll say that's negligible, in real world driving, it is a huge difference. Not to mention the flexibility of having almost full torque off idle makes squirting in and out of traffic much less difficult.
    2) BMW looks alot better to my eye, interior and exterior.
    3) BMW gets better gas mileage.
    4) BMW seats were much more supportive under spirited driving.
    5) Modding potential. If so desired I can spend less then one thousand dollars and get 400 ft/lb or torqu3 and 340 hp to the wheels.
    6) BMW felt much more nimble.
    7) BMW stereo was to my ear, much more crisp.
    8) BMW is still the benchmark in this class, has invented the class, and at the end of the year be named to the ten best list (for obvious reasons if you spend any significant time behind the wheel of either car).

    I have owned 7 Infinitis and 4 BMWs, and find the BMWs to be just plain more fun to drive. It would be interesting to see a poll of the number of BMW drivers who move on to Infiniti's and vice-versa, as I would wager more going to BMW than coming from it.
    -Getz
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    Good stuff.

    I'll be interested in reading any responses you get to this.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • trewquistrewquis Member Posts: 30
    "Run flats do cost more than standard tires, but those are among the costs passed through to the buyer, and included in the reasons the 335 is more expensive than the G37."

    I don't doubt that you end up paying for it in the end, but the originator claimed that this was an area where BMW was somehow shortchanging the customer which did not make sense to me since they were actually including something that cost more, not less money. Whether this is the proper choice or not is a different question.

    "The oil sensor is interesting. It may seem more expensive, but I would bet that a metallic strip sensor and wires are cheaper than a mechanical dipstick to build. Moreover, it seems to fall in with the mentality of keeping the buyer addicted to the dealer"

    There is no way anything can be cheaper than a stick. There's not just the level sensor but also the associated logic with reading it out on the dash. I don't see how it keeps you addicted to the dealer, you read the oil level on the dash, seems easier to me than opening the hood. To me anyway, checking the status of a key component of your car from the driver's seat with no effort is an advance. In terms of cost, dipstick ~ $1.00; oil level sensor ~$30 + engineering cost amortized over all the cars sold; maybe it costs them a total of $50. For the traditionalists I suppose they could have thrown a dipstick in there.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "For the traditionalists I suppose they could have thrown a dipstick in there."

    Personally, I want both. A display in the instrumentation to allow me to easily monitor the oil level, and a dip stick to allow me to suck the oil out without having to crawl under the car.

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    Why are you sucking out your own oil when BMW does it for free? Makes no sense. :)
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    They do it for free only once every 15,000 miles.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Why are you sucking out your own oil when BMW does it for free? Makes no sense."

    1) While I am an advocate of extended oil changes, I am not enamored with the BMW/Castrol 5W-30, an oil that is apparently a Group III synthetic.
    2) I absolutely reject the concept that these cars are too expensive to own out of warranty, and as such, am inclined to drive my next one an easy 100,000 miles.
    3) Once past the free maintenance program I'll run my next car with 10,000 mile OCIs and then see if the UOAs support going the full 15,000 mile distance with Mobil 1 0W-40.

    So, all of the above means that I'll be doing my own oil interim changes during the maintenance period, and all oil changes thereafter. One of the things I LOVED about both my E46 and E39 was how easy it was to change the oil.

    - Get'er warm
    - Pop the hood
    - Yank the dipstick
    - Slide the suction tube into the dipstick tube
    - Pump the air out of the oil cavity
    - While the oil is exiting into the extraction device, open the filter housing
    - Remove the filter element
    - When the oil is extracted, suck any remaining oil out of the filter housing
    - Drop in new filter
    - Screw down the lid to the filter housing
    - Put the dipstick back in its tube
    - Pour in seven quarts of Mobil 1 0W-40 or GC 0W-30
    - Fire the engine and check for leaks

    Simple as that, takes no more than fifteen minutes. ;)

    Best Regards,
    Shipo
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    So you get three or maybe four 15 minute oil dipstick sucks under the maintenance deal?
  • fedlawmanfedlawman Member Posts: 3,118
    4 years/50,000 miles. You get 3.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    Wow, such a deal. Thanks!
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Not one of my facts has been disputed by a single person on here. The only issue anyone is taking with my posts are my claims that you pay more just for the nameplate.

    Understand that I don't have a dog in this hunt. Never owned a BMW. Never owned an Infiniti. And I'll further qualify my position further by saying that the last time I test drove and compared the two back to back, it was the previous G35 against the 330i. And the TL 6-speed, which I ended up buying.

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    More importantly, you seem stuck on the idea that anything that cannot be quantified in terms of 0-60 performance, number of stereo speakers and techno do-dads, etc. must, by nature, be purely opinion and nameplate based.

    Back in 2004, I sincerely wanted to like the G35 6-speed sedan. I had logged 150k miles on a Nissan Maxima SE and it was the best automotive experience in my 30 years of driving. But the things that kept me from the G35 were not quantifiable, but very real, nonetheless. The shifter, compared to the 330i and TL, felt like it had come from Fred Flinstones car. Notchy, rubbery and the antithesis of the short throw Honda S2000 I owned at the time. The TL and 330i were far superior. For someone that likes/requires a manual transmission, that was a huge "qualitative" difference. Similarly, the G35 engine felt rough at higher rpms, compared to the smoothness of the TL and 330i. The G's handling was not particularly impressive, the RWD vs. FWD TL setup notwithstanding. Interior design of the G35, at that time, was clearly by committee and not a very cooperative one.

    All of these faults, and a few others, conspired against the G35 as a choice for me in 2004. I ended up making a compromise to the performance capabilities of the 330i in getting the FWD TL 6-speed, but I didn't feel as though the G35 had a single advantage over the TL and plenty of disadvantages.

    My point, not particularly concise, is that there are plenty of attributes that are important to car purchase decisions that cannot be quantified. And I take issue with those auto magazines that try to quantify some that they shouldn't. Like factoring in price in their final ratings as though everybody has the same financial perspective. Hell, in 1994 I bought a bare bones Maxima because I wasn't comfortable paying $1,000 for a sunroof. In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    The new G35/G37 has been improved. As has the 335i. Perhaps the gap has been narrowed. But don't think that anything that doesn't have a number beside it is a "nameplate" inspired opinion. I gave Infiniti the benefit of their nameplate in 2004 and they still came up short.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    In 2005 I paid $10,000 more for a 911 C2S cabriolet than a coupe. No one can rationalize or quantify that decision.

    In most cases, you get what you want unless you think twice about what you got, which is what you think you wanted at the time you got it and didn't take the time to make sure it was what you wanted before you got it!

    In your case it was exactly what you wanted. Period.

    You just think more clearly than "name plate" shoppers.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    Is the TL a coupe?
  • richardga73richardga73 Member Posts: 84
    So nick, we get the fact that you dont like run flats, etc. But what these forums are about is well, LOVE! People spend loads of money on these damn things and try to cerebrally explain their choices and get caught up in the nuts and bolts and dont really explain that they LOVE this or that car. Now, please explain why you "liked" the G better because you didnt say "love" which is what most of these BMW 3 owners are trying to say!
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Yup, fell in love after the first test drive, which was after the G35 coupe at the time. Liked the G, loved the 3.

    Regards,
    OW
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    It's only a car...That's nutz :surprise:
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    So basically what you're saying is that we shouldn't believe what Edmunds or Kelly Blue Book (the industry standard on such matters for decades) has to say on resale value, but rather your friend's personal experience buying or selling one of these cars in one market? That is ludicrous. BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan (again, the Coupe was the 4th best IN ANY CATEGORY that year). The TL was also the only one of the three not to make C&D's 10 Best in 2004. (http://www.caranddriver.com/bestcars/7571/10best-cars.html)

    You're comparing a FWD 4 door sedan with a 50+ HP and torque deficit over both the 335i and G37. You might as well be talking about a Camry. Those comparison are too far removed to be relevant in this discussion.

    I'm not hung up on anything. I'm using facts and numbers to disprove the false claims being made by others. I'm completely aware of the fact that there are a number of intangibles that can't be measured or quantified. I said as much in my last post. None of my comments are about that. But so far, nothing here has challenged my ongoing point that, in all those categories that CAN be measured and quantified, these two cars are dead even, leaving only those previously stated "intangibles" to justify the $10,000 price difference.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    I can fall in love with intangibles...as long as they delight!!!

    Regards,
    OW
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Everything I've read gives the nod to the 335. Close yes. Dead even no.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    You are right, the window sticker contest goes to the BMW. It's not even close :D
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Nope. Wrong again. Not taking about window stickers. Nor tire pressure, nor number of quarts of oil. We're talking performance numbers. 0 to 60, skidpad and the like. Although for myself I believe skippad is useless.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    "tick faster around the track than the 335i". You've been reading the wrong magazines again...
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Okay I give, I'll believe what you say. The G37 is faster on the track. But when and where it counts, merging, stop lights etc, the 335 is faster. Not to mention better road feel, better looks. I'll pay the difference.
  • getzgetz Member Posts: 24
    http://www.caranddriver.com/features/13181/2007-bmw-335i-coupe.html

    Peruse this article, and then try and convince me a bloated G37 coupe is a better track car than the BMW. I have been to countless track events, and the number of BMW's there far out weighs the Infiniti's. Given all intangibles aside, I would pay the premium simply for the 335's advantage in acceleration. According to Viral, I need not even drive a vehicle when shopping. I simply have to make a spreadsheet, compare a couple of autorag reviews, and put my money on the one that wins the cost analysis.
    -Getz
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Count me in also...$10g's is worth it! It's all about the feel but I am redundant so forgive me that. Some feel different and all the power to them.

    Regards,
    OW
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    Top Resale Values

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?

    As for Edmunds being the definitive source. No disrespect to our fine hosts here, but when I bought a 2002 Honda S2000 in November 2001, the Edmunds "True Market Value" was $36,800 for my zip code, $4,000 over the MSRP. I purchased for $32k. In September, 2005, the Edmunds TMV on a 911 S Cabriolet was exactly MSRP. I got a $10k discount. I'd like to think I'm just so damn good of a negotiator. But the reality is that Edmunds does their best, but local market conditions can vary greatly. In my area, Infiniti's are very tough to resell or trade and expect to get KBB prices. Not so with BMW or Acura. I always pay cash for my cars, so the real world resale vaue is something I consider carefully. And that requires a little more than blind reliance on anybody's "top ten" list, the one above included.
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    BTW, I looked up 2004 resale values, and the TL was below both the 3 series and G35 Sedan

    I see the TL there. Not Infiniti. What's your source? Or maybe you need your eyes checked?


    The link you provided was for Model Year 2006 on ALG, not 2004 (your model) like I listed. Maybe YOU should have your eyes checked. For 2004 models, here's one of several links:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/top10/102467/article.html
    (3 series: 49%, G35: 47%, TL: 46%) and
    2005:
    http://money.cnn.com/2004/08/23/pf/autos/kbb_resale_value/index.htm
    2006:
    http://money.cnn.com/2005/10/03/Autos/tipsandadvice/kbb_resale_value_awards/inde- - x.htm
    http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/2005/10/07/best-auto-resale-value/

    And since you brought up ALG, let's look at the 2008 predicted resale values just released from them, including these two cars (and much more relevant to this thread than your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value)

    From http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/prnewswire/NYW10224102007-1.htm

    Infiniti USA won the Luxury Brand Residual Value Award for the first time -- also the first time any company other than BMW or Lexus has won the overall Luxury award. In addition, Infiniti won the Near Luxury segment award for the G35/G37.

    So for the third time, I've shown the G to be equal or better than the 3 series in resale value, over several model years, from Kelly Blue Book, Edmunds AND Automotive Lease Guide. But again you suggest that we ignore YEARS of resale results from the top automotive sources and take your word for it because you know someone who had a hard time selling their individual car for the value Edmunds claimed? You're losing credibility very quickly.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Guess it depends what you want to measure. Funny how they predict the G37 but not the 335.

    BEST EXTERIOR STYLING:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Honda
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: BMW
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Ford
    Luxury SUV Segment: Mercedes-Benz
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Honda
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Porsche

    BEST Interior Layout/Driving Comfort:
    Non-Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Toyota
    Luxury Sedan/Coupe/Hatchback Segment: Lexus
    Non-Luxury SUV Segment: Toyota
    Luxury SUV Segment: Lexus
    Truck Segment: Chevrolet
    Minivan Segment: Toyota
    Sports Car/Convertible Segment: Lexus

    Overall findings
    Best Overall Exterior Styling: Porsche
    Best Overall Interior Layout/Driving Comfort: Lexus
    Best Overall Prestige Brand /Luxury/Sophistication: Mercedes-Benz
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    your 4 year old TL's now proven mediocre resale value....You're losing credibility very quickly.

    With a statement like that, I'm losing credibility?

    Let's Just see what you've "proven". From the source that you choose to quote, the G35 is 47% and the TL is 46%. So that whopping 1% makes the TL "mediocre" and the G35 what? "Doubly mediocre" compared to the 49% 3 series? "Five times as mediocre" as my previous Honda S2000 at 52%? Or better yet "10 times - a whole order of magnitude - as mediocre" as my current 911 which at 57% just happens to be the top resale car on the entire list.

    There are many "top ten" lists that you conveniently disregard in favor of Edmunds (fine hosts that they are). I'm sure not because the Infiniti isn't even on those lists, correct?

    Whatever credibility you think I'm losing quickly, you better hope to find, because you've lost it completely.
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    Here's your quote:

    On the quantifiable factual basis of your claims, it certainly appears that, in the Washington DC area, the resale values of 3-4-5 year old 3 series are considerably higher than the G35, in spite of what the Edmunds and KBB figures suggest. That's from friends and associates who have been on the buying and selling side of both. I am pleased to report that my 2004 TL 6-speed appears to have both of them beat in resale value, in percentage terms, but the 3 is close and the G is not.

    These aren't "my" claims. I showed you a trusted source proving this statement to be incorrect, using 'percentage terms' to which you spoke. There was no "cherry picking" of articles. Choose any resale list from any trusted source for 2004 model years. Feel free to show US proof of your claims of the TL on top, the 3 series very close and the G lagging way behind and I'll gladly recant my statement. (btw, "friends and associates" isn't proof)

    Until then, I can say I haven't made any false claims or statements here which would call my credibility into question. You can't say the same without some proof.
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Let's debate the facts and leave the assessment of credibility to individual readers in their own minds.
  • chirpchirp Member Posts: 194
    I've had 4 Acuras including a TL. Nice cars, but cannot compare to an Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes or Porsche. They were reliable as hell, but had no passion, so I have moved on. I bought the Acuras because I needed daily drivers that were sensible. I've lost my sensibilities now and only buy cars that I am passionate about. :) Oh yeah, this G37 rocks!!!!!!
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    Year after year, the G keeps one-upping the 3 series in resale value and it just happened again. Kelly Blue Book just released its 10 best resale value cars for M.Y. 2008.

    KBB Top resale value for 2008

    Corvette tops list of 10 best resale value cars


    Here's the list:

    1. Chevy Corvette
    2. Honda Civic Sedan
    3. Infiniti G37 Coupe
    4. Mini Cooper
    5. Scion tC
    6. Scion xB
    7. Toyota Corolla
    8. Volkswagen Eos
    9. Volkswagen Jetta
    10. Volkwagen Rabbit

    None of the 3 series made the top ten. But I'm guessing someone's buddy's uncle's neighbor will have proof KBB is wrong yet again. LOL!

    I also just noticed the "Learn MOre" box to the right show Owner Reviews here at Edmunds. Even Bimmer owners don't rate their cars as high as G owners.

    08 BMW 3 series - 8.8
    08 Infiniti G37 - 9.4
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    So now your using KBB as proof the G35 is a better entry level sports sedan than the 3 series. Wow. This topic really has degenerated. :surprise So let me summarize, other than the fact the 335 is a better entry level sports sedan than the G35, the G35 has better "value" and resale, but that makes it a better car.
  • redsoxgirlredsoxgirl Member Posts: 67
    Personally, I'd put more reliance on the actual residual values being used by leasing companies as a estimate of resale value down the road. They are competing for your business, and are literally putting billions of dollars at stake on validity of their estimates. Kelly is primarily an advertising company with essentially nothing to lose if they "guess" wrong. They are a decent data collector after the fact, but when they project out into the future, they have had some notorious misses. Like projecting that the old Audi 5000 my father owned would be a "best buy". He got slaughtered on resale.

    According to the lease residual tables listed under cars.com: residual values

    2008 Model 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 Year residuals (as % of initial price):

    G35 Sedan: 63 - 53 - 43 - 37
    335i Sedan: 63 - 53 - 42 - 35

    And, for the fun of it:

    911 Coupe: 70 - 57 - 48 - 40
    CTS Sedan: 57 - 48 - 40 - 33
    335ic Conv.: 68 - 57 - 47 - 37
    TL Sedan: 64 - 54 - 44 - 37

    I think what this shows is that essentially, the 335i and G35 (and TL) are nearly identical in residual/resale values. If anything the TL is slightly ahead of both. But a single % or two either way is insignificant.

    As for the list not including some obvious resale leaders, like the 911 Coupe which has been on the top of resale/residual values for a couple of decades, I can only assume Porsche forgot to send Kelly an advertising check.

    If you are trying to decide between the G35 and 335i based upon resale, you are splitting hairs with a very dull knife. There is a world of difference between how these cars drive and feel in my opinion, but hardly any on resale.
  • redsoxgirlredsoxgirl Member Posts: 67
    My mistake - just caught that this comparison is between the G37 coupe and, presumably, 335i coupe. The figures I quoted above were for the sedan versions of each car.

    In checking the residual values of the G37 coupe they are significantly higher than the G35 sedan.

    Unfortunately, the G37 coupe didn't even make it to my short list (no pun intended) because of the back seat. I already own a 911 coupe and am looking for a sedan/coupe to add as a primary driver for the winter months and those times when I need to carry passengers. I don't fit into the rear seat (5'5", 110 lbs) of the G37 much more comfortably than I do in the back of my 911. So it's a noncontender.

    That said, the G37 does appear to have impressive residual values.
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    I think he was just replying to the assertion that the 3-series had much better resale value.

    While I don't necessarily agree with viral's assessment of the "equality" of these two fine vehicles, he/she has made a much more credible argument in my view. That said, I find many of the posts from both camps to be completely without credibility. Still entertaining though! :)

    For my tastes, I prefer the BMW coupe and the Infiniti sedan. As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).
  • cdnpinheadcdnpinhead Member Posts: 5,499
    ". . .splitting hairs with a very dull knife."

    Very nice turn of phrase.

    If you're the person who's been posting from time to time in the manual transmission forum, I've been enjoying your posts for quite awhile.

    If you're not, then I guess I've just started.

    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest. It's being discussed in about 50 forums.

    Oh boy.
    '08 Acura TSX, '17 Subaru Forester
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Either way, welcome to the "BMW vs. everyone else" contest.

    Hopefully, everyone else catches up!

    Regards,
    OW
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    Fair enough, redsoxgirl. If you'd rather compare lease residual values, using the exact same page you listed, here are the numbers for the two cars in question (higher is better):

    335i Coupe: 63 53 43 34
    G37 Sport: 73 61 51 43

    So using your most trusted source, not only does the G37 absolutely slaughter the 335i Coupe, it bests even the 911 Coupe you listed above! So using Lease residual values, you now see that, not only is the G $10,000 cheaper, similarly equipped, but it's going to be worth MUCH more in resale, in every year listed. Not only will the Bimmer cost you more up front, it'll cost you more on the back end too, almost 10% more! And as you said, they put BILLIONS on the line every year, so they MUST get it right.

    kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37. Go back and reread the thread if you need to, but several here have claimed that the BMW's "superior" resale value will "more than make up" for it's $10,000 price differential. These resale/residual value posts only serve to prove that statement false. Bottom line here, 335i Coupe has WORSE resale value (with a margin getting wider with each new model year, as shown above), making the price difference even greater, not less.

    You also claimed a few posts back that "everything you read seems to give the nod to the 335i". But as I posted before, both Motor Trend and Road&Track, two of the three most widely read automotive mags in the country, have had shootouts between these two cars and BOTH chose the G37 as the winner. What exactly are you reading? Obscure Bimmer fan blogs? Because all the trusted sources keep declaring "The King is Dead!" These are professional drivers who do this all day, every day, for a living. And they are generally BMW biased (because of their stellar record) and readily admit it (hence the title of that article).

    pmvi, It's not really my assertion as much as the drivers in these shootouts that name these vehicles a virtual coin flip in almost every respect. I love BMWs. My dad is a diehard bimmer driver (both cars and motorcycles). But I can't sit idly by and listen to people spout nonsense when someone posts the question for an honest comparison of these two cars. How can he be expected to even test drive both when all he sees on here was "Oh BMW wins hands down" and "BMW has a much better resale value" and "BMW has a better warranty" etc. All of those statements were made, all have been proven wrong.

    And regarding your comment:
    As far as engines/drivetrains go, I do think the BMW has a leg up (even without LSD).:

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."

    That's a pretty strong statement from a highly regarded source. I think they might disagree with you.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    "kdshapiro, once again, you're completely missing the point. As I've stated over and over, my posts have one goal: to set straight all the false claims that others on here are making about the 335 vs the G37."

    My point is the 335 is still a better performer than the G37, drives better, feels better and for my book looks better. Residual values, mp3 players, back up cameras have nothing to do with the mission of the cars and the BMW wins handily wins hands down on the intended mission. I'll start with edmunds own comparo as a supporting conversation.

    You cannot get a good lease deal on an Infiniti, BMW provides much better leasing support. This in turn effects future residuals and future sales of certified cars. Yes, it's a bit of a guessing game.

    According to a quote from Ward's 10 Best Engines:
    "The Nissan VQ engine is the only engine to have been present on the list every year since the competition’s inception in 1995."


    There are other awards where the VQ doesn't even get a mention, where it is felt the VQ is a good, inefficient performer handily outdone by other engines.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I am prepared to admit that, although it is only one factor, I am surprised by the excellent resale/residual value that is being estimated for the G37. Clearly Infiniti has improved in this regard from the early days of the Q45 and J30 that depreciated about 40% before your second fill-up. And another 10% before your first oil change.

    But it does beg the question as to why the G35 sedan is so much below the G37 coupe? A couple of percent is understandable - but at 10%+ these two cars are miles apart. I am wondering if the coupe is benefiting from its better looking design and higher performance - or just because of more limited production.

    Secondly, your link to Wards isn't to their 10 best list. I would like to see if they still list the Nissan/Infiniti V6 on ther list. I have a 1995 Maxima and it still runs smooth after 155k miles. But the 2004 G35 I test drove was, by comparison, rough. Not to mention that the 6-speed manual gearbox was notchy and imprecise compared to the crisp short throw 6-speeds in the 2004 TL and 330i ZHP. I thought at some point Infiniti lost their string of Ward's engine awards?

    I'm not in the market for a coupe (or any car for that matter), but I will stop in for a test drive of the G37 when I get a chance. If they fixed all of the things that I didn't like about the 2004 G35 sedan and bolstered resale, good for them.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    I would like to find the time to test drive the G37 as well. But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.
  • viralviral Member Posts: 12
    Habitat - Here's the list for the 2007 Wards ten Best Engines -
    http://wardsauto.com/reports/2007/tenbest/

    And a quote from it -
    "Nissan Motor Co. Ltd. 3.5L DOHC V-6 - Nissan adds to its VQ V-6 legend with an unprecedented 13th consecutive Ward’s 10 Best Engines honor."

    I had assumed that some of the naysayers here had never even test driven / ridden in a G37. And it looks like I'm right, at least for some. The car shares very little feel and attitude with the G sedan. The G37 Coupe is an animal. To even compete (much less win) against a twin turbocharged 335i coupe at $10,000 less is a world -class accomplishment. I'm astonished that more serious car enthusiasts don't see that.

    As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Where is Nissan in this "International" forum?

    http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/whatsnew.html

    "As for looks, that's very subjective. I think the new 3 series coupe are the most bland, watered down BMWs in a decade vs the G37, which is a work of art on wheels.How anyone can think a boxy caddy is more attractive that a G coupe is well beyond me. "

    I agree, how any things the G37 is a work of art or is sexier than the 335 coupe is beyone me as well . Granted the 335 is not perfect, the stupid arm that delivers the seatbelt is a rube goldberg contraption.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    But I would buy the 350 before the G37. In fact I would buy the CTS before the G37. Something about Infinitis doesn't get me excited.

    I sincerely hope that was a slip of tongue caused by your preference for the 335i over the G37. Because if you would really take a slushbox only IS350 or a Mattel Toy inspired, chrome crazed CTS over a G37, I think you are endangering your credibility. Personally, I'd punt the entire sport sedan segment before I succumbed to an automatic transmssion or Rock-em Sock-em Robot American styling.
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    The CTS is a very nice boulevard cruiser with a hint of sportiness. I took one a test drive a couple of model years ago. Boulevard cruisers have their place. The Lexus is as tight as a sardine can. While some people claim they can carry 5 NBA stars in a 350/250 with room to spare I'm not seeing that point of view. Although Lexus being Lexus, they are not out to build a car with "raw" sports attributes like the G.

    For whatever reason I have not warmed up to the G and it's variants after 5 years. Infiniti is clearly nipping at BMWs heals and has surpassed it in the gadget department, I just can't see myself in one however.
  • frommx5tomz3frommx5tomz3 Member Posts: 19
    It's amazing to me how passionate people get over this argument. I have never owned an Infiniti or BMW but am currently trying to decide between the 335i and G37. Having no "loyalty" to either brand, I'll give you my "objective" viewpoint on this debate on a variety of dimensions (apologies for the length - skip this whole post if you want):

    First and foremost - these cars are VERY similar when you look at the BIG picture (i.e. they are basically the only 4 passenger, luxury-oriented, rear-drive sport coupes on the market under $50K and as one review put, are "chasing the same driver") Every other car in this field is much less squarely "head-to-head" - i.e. they differ on some fundamentally basic characteristic, not simply on quality, performance or personal preference.

    Regarding expert/numerical performance assessments - having read tons of reviews, my conclusion is that the "experts" (myself clearly not included) would be nearly unanimous on the point that the BMW accelerates faster, but not by some monstrous amount. They seem less unanimous on handling, although *most* seem to also prefer the BMW's steering feel, regardless of who comes out on top in slalom or skidpad tests. In general, I have concluded that the BMW would be preferred by nearly all "experts" if driving characteristics were the only differences.

    Regarding "the typical enthusiast" driving impressions... Look I'm no race car driver, but consider myself an enthusiast (only owned one automatic in my life, and it hasn't been to save $800 on the transmission). That said, I can't tell much difference in handling feel or acceleration between these two cars in a spirited (but not daredevil) test drive. I think the Bimmer feels slightly "smoother" and perhaps more responsive, but by such a narrow margin that minor pavement differences between the two test drives (or other small factors) could explain it.

    Regarding the interior quality - my personal opinion is that the G wins on "features" (unless you spend a LOT more on the Bimmer) and that the BMW wins on "quality". The BMW's leather and controls just feel more upscale to me. "Style" is a personal preference, but the G does feel more modern to me inside. I think most reviewers (myself included and probably the public in general) feel that the G35 has the better cockpit save for material quality, but that material quality matters a lot in a luxury interior. Perhaps slight edge to the bimmer, but wouldn't it be nice to have a G35 cockpit/features with BMW materials?

    Price: decided advantage to the Infiniti. Comparably priced, the BMW looks like a stripped down model (you can get a G with nav, leather, advanced key, ipod, heated seats, etc. for practically the price of getting a 335 with leatherette and no options) Comparably equipped, they are about $6-7000 (give or take) apart and the Infiniti dealers (at least in my area) seem more willing to deal by a small margin.

    Regarding resale - the Infiniti clearly wins here (both in % terms and in terms of raw depreciation dollars lost) and there are two reasons for it: 1) it starts out less expensive and 2) its long-term maintenance is (at least perceived to be) less painful to the owner - long after the warranty and free maintenance is gone, people expect Japanese cars to be less expensive to maintain. (As a side note for people who wonder why the coupe does so much better than the sedan on resale - I think it is because there are so many other reliable sporty sedans out there competing in the used car market. If you want a reliable Japanese luxury sport coupe in the used market, you buy the G. If you want a sedan, there is more competition.)

    Image - some people are German "snobs" (I don't mean that to sound as bad as it does). I don't know many people that tout Japanese superiority in luxury or performance vs. the Germans (reliability and value is another story entirely). At the end of the day, the BMW brand holds some additional cache for many people. I have to admit it influences me at least a little. Not that the Infiniti has a poor brand, just a slight nod to the "old school" here.

    Bottom line (I know, it takes a long time to get here)...the Bimmer is the *slightly* "better" car, but the Infiniti is the decidedly better value. That being said, not everyone buys purely on value, especially in a sport coupe. I am personally so torn between these two cars I still don't know which way I am going to lean in the end...

    The head says Infiniti, the heart says BMW...but then the heart says Infiniti plus a nice watch and a vacation... but then the head says buy the BMW and you won't regret it and you can get the watch and vacation later... and the heart chimes in with "just splurge on all of it now" to heck with the consequences...at which point the head just laughs at the heart. Any of this sound familiar?

    Now that the fence-sitter has said his peace, let the two camps continue to fight the good the fight. (By the way, I actually hope someone can refute half of what I said and come up with a decisive argument for one of these two cars over the other. Then I will be able to sleep again...)
  • kdshapirokdshapiro Member Posts: 5,751
    Nice post. People are passionate about their cars. One test drive in an E46 a few years ago sold me.

    If we look at the *big* picture, there isn't really any difference in any of the entry level luxury sports sedans, all 6-10 of them depending on how you count. It's only when we get into the details do we notice the differences.

    Some of your impressions match mine, some don't. I did skip the watch, and did take the vacation. Happy car shopping.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    I'm not sure I can add anything to your analysis that will help you sleep better regarding which car to buy. But let me sincerely compliment you on one of the most articulate and intelligently composed posts I have read here on Edmunds.

    About all I can add for the "head" to consider is that resale becomes less of a value issue the longer you intend to keep the car. Many years ago, I bought the car I wanted (1995 Maxima SE 5-speed) over two that had better projected resale (Accord EX and Camry XLE V6). But I knew that, barring unforseen circumstances, I would be keeping the car 7-8+ years. At which point, resale differences would be relatively minimal. And I made the right choice - we still have the Maxima residing at our second home, ready to spring into life every 6+/- weeks. I never would have felt inclined to keep the slushbox Camry around for that long.

    Good luck on your decision and please post it. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is curious as to the outcome.
This discussion has been closed.