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American Electric Vehicles
I have been following the ev world for quite a while. As an engineer, with an aggravating mind, I have been totally unimpressed with all commercial hybrids except the proposed Chevy Volt - you better pull this one off GM!
Now, today I saw a blog post in wired news about American Electric Vehicles. I must disclose that I live in Colorado and am always happy to hear about a tech company making it in Colorado but this thing is impressive. They state that the range is 50 miles but it's an open air off road vehicles - not much for aerodynamics there!!!!
The price tag hurts a tad. Maybe I will sell a limb):
It's my first post to this forum but this thing got me pretty excited.
Why no straight up electric forum.
Now, today I saw a blog post in wired news about American Electric Vehicles. I must disclose that I live in Colorado and am always happy to hear about a tech company making it in Colorado but this thing is impressive. They state that the range is 50 miles but it's an open air off road vehicles - not much for aerodynamics there!!!!
The price tag hurts a tad. Maybe I will sell a limb):
It's my first post to this forum but this thing got me pretty excited.
Why no straight up electric forum.
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http://link.brightcove.com/services/link/bcpid1351302783/bctid1351300070
gfr
Japan's third-largest automaker said the front-wheel drive, boxy-shaped car has a newly developed 80 kilowatt motor with advanced lithium-ion batteries installed under the vehicle's floor to avoid taking up space.
The laminated batteries, jointly developed with electronics giant NEC Corp., pack twice the electric power of conventional nickel-metal hydride batteries currently used in hybrid and electric cars, it said.
Nissan aims to start selling an electric car in the United States and Japan in 2010 and the rest of the world in 2012. It will have a new "unique bodystyle" that is not based on any existing model, the company said.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=080806085901.thpknii3&show_article=1&ima- ge=large
I would love to see all the Big 6 get involved and offer small electric vehicles that are full-duty (highway-capable), not like these little GEM cars we already have.
The first one to offer such a car for prices comparable to (if not quite as low) same-size gas-powered cars will have a huge hit on their hands, I would think.
But what about supply bottlenecks on batteries? Is Nissan going to run into the same problems with supply that Toyota has with the Prius?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think that Mitsubishi is close to delivering an EV also. I agree it will have to be priced right. If it is basic transportation it needs to be under $20k. I like the box design. Always seemed the most practical for everyday use. The first xB was cool. If they had not tried to rape me I would have bought one for a runabout. They are not worth $20k as the dealer thought.
I would love to see Nissan produce an electric version of the Cube. They are bringing over the gas version next year (which may just put the final nail in Scion's coffin) and it would be such a practical car for their first electric model. Seats four adults comfortably, lots of cargo space, gas version only costs $15K. I would bet they could deliver the electric version for an asking price under $20K.
iluvmysephia has been going on for quite some time about the Mitsubishi MIEV (is that the right name?), which is not too far off, from what I have gathered with only limitied interest. Funny that Honda, with working NG and fuel cell cars, not to mention hybrids, has made no mention of plans to develop an electric vehicle based just on household/roadside recharging.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Tesla must be alive and well. Says they are on track to deliver 560 cars this year. They have hired a high powered designer.
We have obtained exclusive information about Franz von Holzhausen's next career move. On Thursday of last week, von Holzhausen resigned from Mazda, where he was Director of Design at the R&D Design Center in Irvine CA, to become the Design Director at Tesla Motors.
"It's going to be an exciting adventure," von Holzhausen told us in an exclusive interview. "I'm looking forward to working at a new startup company that doesn't have the confines of a large OEM."
Tesla will be looking to produce a range of new cars according to the famed designer. While the Tesla Roadster was designed by Lotus, Tesla founder and Chairman Elon Musk is "looking to produce electric vehicles for the masses and wanted to bring design in house."
According to insiders, von Holzhausen was 'cherry picked' for that task.
A graduate from Art Center College of Design, von Holzhausen began his career as Assistant Chief Designer in VW's Design Center California and was involved in various projects from the Concept One to the Microbus. He has also served as Design Manager at General Motors where he was responsible for designing and managing the concept and production design process for the Pontiac Solstice, Saturn Sky, Chevy SS, and various other GM programs.
I think Toyota's battery supply problems are due to them keeping battery production in house and underestimating the demand. They are currently working on doubling their capacity but it will take a couple of years.
There are a lot of EVs in our history. A couple came real close. Such as the RAV4 EV and the EV-1.
2010 is not that far off. We should see a lot of interesting technology by then.
78 mph top speed, 117 mile range, using NiMH batteries, drove just like their gas counterparts except for the lower top speed, and offered the same interior utility.
Sticker, of course, was $42K, but tax credits at the time brought the real-world price down below $30K. They mainly leased them but they did sell a few.
The EV1 was pretty fab too, but unlike Toyota GM chose not to sell any and to pull them all off the road at lease end and crush them. I still see a RAV4 EV every once in a while. I think their owners loved them, and they must be REALLY loving them now!
The RAV4 EV was pretty practical. You may think that at $30K they were not a good value, but they had practicality in spades.
I can't wait until Nissan brings out the first one that is affordable to all.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Now, I could credibly argue that if automakers chose to develop electric motors 100 years ago instead of gas/diesel engines, we'd STILL be no better of today than we are with OPEC. Some other cartel would have developed to restrict the supply of electricity. The government would still tax it several times between the producer and the consumer, just like oil and gasoline. And we'd still face an occasional "crisis" during which politicians would seek higher taxes and new powers for themselves.
But maybe the air would be a bit cleaner.
I think practical means different things to different people. A practical all around EV may still be 20 years in the future. A practical commuter car less than a year. Just as a CNG car is good for commuting, they are not practical to head cross country with.
Yeah. I ran the numbers a few years ago for building my own electric car, and the cost to replace the battery pack every 3-5 years (a bigger pack would last longer but cost more up front) was something like 3x the cost of fuel and maintenance on a gas car in that timeframe.
I agree. I think Honda has done its thing with gas-electric hybrids (they were one of the first), and they don't want to dump a bunch of R&D and money into more stepping-stone vehicles. They want to leap ahead to the ultimate clean car, that runs on the most plentiful resource in the universe.
I think they're going to drive fuel cell development full speed ahead until it works for enough people that they can sell 'em. Honda wants to be the first company to take the last step in alternative fuel vehicles.
They better get to work. That is a big mountain to climb. That and Nissan has just passed Honda in fuel cell development. I still would not count on them being mainstream for 20 years.
Despite their unsettling X-Trail Fuel Cell Vehicle Nürburgring record run recently, Nissan is making serious developments with a new fuel cell stack with double the power density of the previous generation stack. Additionally, the stack uses half the amount of platinum, a key material, resulting in 35% cost savings. Nissan test prototypes carrying the improved fuel cell stacks will be operational by the end of this year.
August 6, 2008 5:00 PM by Brian Potter
Between 1832 and 1839 (the exact year is uncertain), Robert Anderson of Scotland invented the first crude electric carriage. A small-scale electric car was designed by Professor Stratingh of Groningen, Holland, and built by his assistant Christopher Becker in 1835. Practical and more successful electric road vehicles were invented by both American Thomas Davenport and Scotsmen Robert Davidson around 1842. Both inventors were the first to use non-rechargeable electric cells. Frenchmen Gaston Plante invented a better storage battery in 1865 and his fellow countrymen Camille Faure improved the storage battery in 1881. This improved-capacity storage battery paved the way for electric vehicles to flourish.
France and Great Britain were the first nations to support the widespread development of electric vehicles in the late 1800s. In 1899, a Belgian built electric racing car called "La Jamais Contente" set a world record for land speed - 68 mph - designed by Camille Jénatzy
http://inventors.about.com/library/weekly/aacarselectrica.htm
So I think Toyota has already won this competition.
Used RAV4-EVs regularly sell on eBay for more than their MSRP. The one I drove had about 75,000 miles on the original set of batteries, no problems so far.
As far as I can tell, this "old" EV would outperform the Volt and just about anything else on the road other than the Tesla. And it's a full size truck, too. Looks exactly like a regular RAV-4. Well it IS a regular RAV-4, but not AWD of course.
Well, the only one on ebay right now is a completed listing. It got only one bid of $45,000 which did not make the reserve. :surprise:
Somehow I think the seller might have worked something out with the bidder after the auction ended.
2002 Toyota RAV4 EV
Of course the RAV4-EV was not a hybrid, but a pure electric.
The VOLT is I gather a kind of "hybrid" but the gas engine onboard only charges the battery. Have I got that right?
So after the 40 mile range of pure battery power is dissipated, can the little gas engine keep the battery charged while you're running along or do you have to stop to recharge?
GM is claiming the car will come to market in 2010 but car magazines are saying "no way".
Related Story:
VOLT Buyers Already Lining Up
31,000 on a buyer's list is pretty good, given that the car might punch out over $35,000.
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A vehicle the size of the Volt would probably be using about 20 kilo-watts if it was traveling down the highway at 80 mph. It doesn't take that big of an engine to generate 20 kW. The Volt is going to have a 1.0L engine, which acts as a generator. There are generators available today no bigger than this that can generate 20 kW.
My personal opinion is that the Volt will be on the market in 2010 but not in big numbers. Maybe a couple thousand, not the 30 thousand that GM is shooting for. As far as I'm concerned that would be wise on GM's part. Allow a relatively small number of buyers to act as your beta testers for the first year or two and limit your liability.
I'm shocked...SHOCKED!
All I can say is that this VOLT had better work good....REAL good...right out of the box or GM is going to be making teapots for the government of Turkey.
They might not be considered for that contract if the Volt fizzles
1. fear of being stranded when batteries run out
2. questions on battery pack longevity/warranty
3. safety in a crash
4. rapid obsolescence and its effect on resale value.
Ford bought Think’s parent company, then known as Pivco Industries, for $23 million in 1999. In a burst of optimism, Ford thought it could sell 3,500 to 5,000 vehicles a year, but the actual numbers were much lower and Ford sold out in 2003.
The climate for electric vehicles is presumably better now, though price, range, performance and the economic downturn are still daunting obstacles to significant sales numbers.
Looking to buck the odds, Think is back with a revamped City, though only in Europe.
Richard Canny, the chief executive for Think, said the new City is “night and day” different from the earlier model, though both are made of recyclable plastic body panels with molded-in colors. The City is built on a new platform with a larger body, and it is fully capable of highway speeds.
The car, which has been crash tested in Europe, is basically a two-seater, though 2+2 children’s seats are available. It can reach 68 miles an hour and has a cruising range of 100 to 110 miles, roughly double the earlier vehicle. It takes 12 hours to fully recharge the battery from a 110-volt wall outlet. It will sell for about $30,000 in Europe (the company Web site says “around $31,388”).
The key for greater range is lithium-ion batteries, which come from two American suppliers, A123 and EnerDel (a division of Ener1). The car is also being sold with Zebra sodium-nickel-chloride batteries.
http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/think-again-an-electric-car-makes-a-c- omeback/?hp
Actually the Prius II is just barely 5 years old. It just seems like you have had it forever. :sick:
The original was a lot different than the current vintage.
I don't think you will see much going on in American made electric vehicles. The major component is now and for the future will be the battery. My bet is they will be made in China and maybe India. From what I can tell much of the Lithium comes from Bolivia. So maybe that will become the battery capitol of the World.
About long trips, all I can tell you is , after an 8,000 mile trip to Montana and then Atlanta, Ga I will say that the Prius was reasonably comfortable to me and my fussy wife. We know its no plush ride but, it is all we seem to demand of a mid-size car. I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars. Pontiac has been one that seemed much worse and that was the Grand Prix.
I've heard some road noise but then I've heard worse in other cars.
I guess it all depends on what you are willing to live with. I know if you encountered any bad weather it was stressful driving. That to me is not acceptable. I stepped out of my Sequoia into my friends new Prius and did not expect it to be noisy. They are and he did not seem to mind. So different strokes for different folks. You do have the consolation of getting close to 50 MPG and that is worth something. My son in law bought a $12k Yaris and it is just a bit noisier than the Prius. He only gets 40 MPG. Which is better than the Yamaha Motorcycle he rode to work for 3 years. So many options...
My reason for wanting an EV is quiet peaceful ride. They don't offer that, they can keep them. I don't think that is asking too much out of vehicles that cost over $20k.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-11128_3-10111091-54.html
Until we can develop more non-fossil fuel power generating capacity and begin ungrading the currently overloaded power distribution grid a major push to PHEV is the stuff of dreams.
Let's go with CNG, Compressed Natural Gas, as an interim solution. Compressed and filled at home each night, "off period".
The thing is that this past Sunday's "60 Minutes" show dealt with Saudi Arabia's determined effort to produce vast amounts of new oil and their research & development of significant negligable polluting combustion engines using gas or diesil. Their insistance is to promote oil proliferation to the world. If you saw it you knew that they're not going down without a fight and considering the vast billions they have in their coffer I'd say they have an edge. After seeing the program it impressed me that oil is not taking a backseat just yet. This show was quite enlightening. I do think electric is here to stay but oil is also staying too. Maybe it will get a better reputation in the years to come.
Improved FE at the development expense of the Saudi's, lower fuel cost as a result results, worldwide oil resource lasts longer.
Gives us, US, time to develop an interim strategy for the use of our own HUGE NG reserves, and in the longer term electric power generation capability, wind, waves, sun and nuclear.
I think it's real popular to want to "look green" at the moment and that EV's don't make as much sense at the moment as proponents think they do.
Do you feel battery technology has gone as far as it's going to go?
Propelled by a completely electric ENVI drivetrain, the Dodge Circuit EV posts impressive performance numbers:
- 0-60 mph in less than 5 seconds
- 1/4-mile in 13 seconds
- Top speed of more than 120 mph
Perhaps the most impressive Dodge Circuit EV number, however, is zero. That's how much gasoline the vehicle consumes while providing exhilarating sports car performance. It's also how much tailpipe emissions are produced.
The Dodge Circuit EV utilizes just three powertrain components. These include a 200 kW (268 horsepower) electric motor
to drive the wheels, an advanced lithium-ion battery system to power the electric-drive motor, and a controller that manages energy flow.
Working with the latest advanced lithium-ion battery technology, the Dodge Circuit EV has a driving range of 150 to 200 miles between charges - more than triple the average daily commute of most consumers. Recharging the vehicle is a simple one-step process: plugging into a standard 110-volt household outlet. The recharge time can be cut in half by using a typical 220-volt household appliance power outlet.
The Dodge Circuit EV offers driving enthusiasts a performance sports car that can be driven to work every day - without consuming gasoline or producing tailpipe emissions.
Tesla killer?
How long to bring enough nuclear generating capability on line to even support 5% of today's "traffic".
Whereas there is clearly an overabundance of NG.
Depends on the individual owner's daily drive cycle/period.
A vehicle the size of the Volt would probably be using about 20 kilo-watts if it was traveling down the highway at 80 mph. It doesn't take that big of an engine to generate 20 kW. The Volt is going to have a 1.0L engine, which acts as a generator. There are generators available today no bigger than this that can generate 20 kW. "
Not the Volt, but how about a similar vehicle, the Extended Range Electric work truck...40 mile electric range, 400 mile range with gas... 100 kW generator, 200 kW motor. Nice that you can use the generator to power a jobsite or your home (during power failure.)
http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/e-rev_truck_c.html
EREV ...Hummer http://www.rasertech.com/media/movies/html/fev_jan09.html
PG&E to take delivery of 2 EREV fleet trucks to test, maybe next month.
I like this concept. My normal commute is about 20 miles each way, 40 total. So, in theory most days I would use very little if any gas. One of their videos says normal city driving like this might use 5 tanks a year. Electricity for charging estimated $1 per day. Plus, you can drive unlimited distance using the generator.
It really depends on how you drive...past 8 years I have averaged 17K miles a year. My old Trooper averages about 17 mpg, the new Saturn Outlook about 21. So, my consumption would be around 800-1000 gallons a year. So, even assuming gas goes back up to $4/gal fuel would cost me around $3600 year for 900 gal.
Using 6 - 12 gallon tanks a year for normal commute would run $288, then assume for another 6000 non commute miles, trips, long detours on the way home exceeding the 40 mile range, assume average 30 mpg, another $800 @ $4 gal. Say just round up to $1200 year.
Using these figures, I could save maybe $2500 year, $1800 perhaps at $3 a gallon. At that I possibly justify spending $5-6K more for a like vehicle with the EREV.
We of course have to wait until (if) these are available.
http://www.fastcompany.com/blog/kit-eaton/technomix/first-aptera-electric-cars-r- oll-out-vehicle-future
The part that I found interesting is they already have 4000 orders, it only takes a $500.00 refundable deposit, and the price is already better than what we were told GM or Nissan would offer.
But technically I guess the EV-1 and Toyota EV Rav-4s would have been first if the public could have bought them to start with. The EV-1 was a lease only and the Rav-4 was a government test.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)