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Buying a Vehicle with Cash, Check or Credit Card
What are the requirements, especially under the Patriot Act? And will a dealer take a credit card for the entire purchase, or just a portion?
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To confirm that you are who you claim you are.
If the car you bought is involved in a fatal accident or a criminal activity - dealership will be held responsible for who they give cars to.
We had cops come and go through specific customer's files, apparently the car he bought was involved in drugs trafficking.
Also buying and selling cars could be used for money laundering, so we need to have accurate records for the IRS.
If you come in to write me a check for say $30K and I am unable to verify your check is good becuase your bank is closed then I get what is called a "5 liner" just enough info to pull your credit. If in your credit I see a 580 credit score with 5 bounced checks then guess what, you are not leaving with my car until I can go to a bank in the morning and hammer your check. If you are a citizen then I will let you take the car.
Ok, so I offer to bring a bank draft and/or let them authorize my Amex for the full amount of the car. Why do they still need a credit app?
Amex, bring it on, I have no problem with that other then the fee they charge. I have had deals blow out when we have asked payment type up front and they tell us cash then whip a Amex or other CC out with there fee. It would cost us $455 to put $35K on a Amex.
Just curious - would you take Visa or Mastercard? How much would they charge?
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Yes, but the authorization on the Amex is only a back stop against the unlikely event of a bank draft fraud. See, I would make $400 on the purchase with Amex. As an aside, the last dealer allowed me to charge $40K. I was amazed.
I still have not heard a legitimate reason why a credit app is necessary for a cash purchase.
We get people all the time with Black AMEXs that want to put the whole car on the AMEX car and we have to tell them no. I actually think that in the the state of CT it is illegal to put an entire car purchase on a CC.
Amex has the highest fees they are like 1.3% higher if you don't swipe the card and have to manually enter the account # Visa and Master Card are lower but I don't know how much.
I have actually only lost one deal due to credit card fees. It was a $62K transaction on a Plan Customer who told us he was going to finance with his bank. After we looked at his trade and agreed he informed us his bank was his Amex Card. Its bad enough selling Crew Cab Diesel trucks to plan customer, be be darned if we were going to lose $800-$900 doing it.
In the end the sales manager relented no doubt because he might have lost the sale without it. There was a situation where I'd have $5K in three weeks but didn't have it at that moment.
If fraud, grand theft auto and other reasons brought forth here are not enough, I don't know what to say. I guess just do not buy here. I had a couple who would not sign a credit app or back up contract. We took the check the next day to their bank, cashed it, and delivered the car. Would you let a 20-80k asset go without a verification of funds? I don't think so.
Well we have given you two or three, you just keep changing the conversation and adding bank drafts and CC's to be able to continue this crazy debate.
I want an app to see if you are an identity stealing no good thief
If you are paying me with pictures of dead presidents, no app needed. If not, get your pen ready because youre filling out an app at my dealership. I have never lost a deal that way and if someone has that hard of a time giving up their information, which I will safeguard, then I wonder what they are hiding. I will be glad to destroy their info when the check clears...
I want an app to see if you are an identity stealing no good thief
No you haven't given me any really. You say you need it to confirm identity and feel secure about payment which are valid reasons. So I offer alternative ways for you to confirm identity and to make sure you get paid. Heck, I'll wire the money if you are that worried. Why isn't that good enough?
Meanwhile, I can see all of those as legitimate reasons for taking a credit app. I would guess if I walk in, buy the car and pay by check and agree not to take actual possession of the car until the check clears you'd be OK with that?
I wouldn't do that, mind you. Take the credit app. The last thing I am worried about is a legitimate inquiry on my credit. I'm certainly not concerned about what you'd find out.
Thank you. So they don't need the app after all if I satisfy a reasonable security of payment. And no I would not let the asset go, without verification, that wasn't my point. My question and point was the former which you answered.
Your original post did not ask for exceptions. In 95% of our cash transactions to non previous customers a credit app and back up contract are required. You did not indicate haw you were conducting the cash transaction and the exceptions are just that, not the rule.
You wouldn't have wanted me in the place last week. Had this medical test which involves wearing this belt with a small computer on it to monitor things. Had it on all day. Made me look like a suicide bomber. They told me I could go to work like that. Um, I don't think that's such a good idea.
They REALLY protect their customers!
OK, fair point, but when I asked at the dealer why, all I got was it's always done, identity etc. If you are wondering why I am bit sensitive to this stuff, I got an email last week from my online broker saying they had exposed databases, but my social wasn't released (this time)
SOLD!
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Mackabee
Mack
This line, among others, is why I wish you were local, though I wouldn't wish living in this hellhole on anyone. We're a growing area (for reasons I can't begin to understand) & have tremendous turnover of both stores and those who inhabit them.
Thanks for helping those of us on the other side of the table keep the faith that the store might be trustworthy.
Seriously, if all dealerships did business as you describe it, life would be much better for many of us.
Homeland security can scan your passport, pull your photo on the computer screen, and compare the two.
Dealers do not have access to this database. We cannot confirm if your DL is real, or you bought it for $5 to buy beer when you were 12.
I had similar situations as ‘rob87’ mentioned in post 17887.
I bought in 2005 and 2006, two different dealers, both in the state of PA. I told each one that I was going to write a check and neither one asked to run a credit app. I have to admit I was surprised but if they didn’t care why should I ? In fact, in 2005 I didn’t have the funds transferred to my checking account at the time of sale so I said, “I guess I’ll have to come back tomorrow after the transfer and he said don’t worry about it, I’ll hold the check for a couple days just to give you some time”. :surprise:
So my question is, why in 2005 when they knew I didn’t have the money in my account did they let me take the car? In 2006 I had the money in my checking account but how could they verify that.
Both of these purchases surprised me, do I sound that trustworthy to you.?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But then again you could also be giving someone elses information for the credit application.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Have the paperwork in front of me. Only things signed were the bill of sale, 2 state odometer disclosure statements, 1 state damage disclosure statement, the title to the trade, and the check. Cleanest simplest deal I've ever done. Hadn't stepped foot into the dealership before that purchase.
My prior purchase was a Toyota with a certified bank check draw as cash and no trade, I thought I was at a house closing. I had more ridiculous forms to sign than I could even think were needed.
Both had a copy of drivers license, insurance card, and in the case of my trade the owners card.
No idea why the difference.
No idea why the difference.
Haven't you been paying attention to anything that was said here today...IT'S THE LAW, remember? :confuse:
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
But then, I am in NC (moon shine country)
::
( $ )
Mackabee
Mackabee
The issues of identity and payment are red herrings. Of course you need reasonable verification of identity and surety of payment, that's obvious. If you want to verify funds in the bank or use other means, I'm OK with that.
But I think we have probably beat this horse to death :P Just because we careful with our personal information and privacy, does not mean we are terrorists or deadbeat thieves ; just like all cars sales folks aren't liars and cheats
BTW: Mack, the Lexus dealer canceled the IS350 sale; your credit bounced and the doc fee was $1000
With that I'm going to bed...with a smile on my face.
See you guys in the morning, if that ain't against the law. :P
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
:mad:
Mack
To us in the biz we deal with customers all the time that tell us they are paying cash when in reality they have a draft from their credit union or check from their bank or personal check and not cash as in the green paper with pictures on it. Like LR said, we sell cars when banks are closed and no way to verify funds.
BTW: my credit does not "bounce" it's Tier 1 or Tier 1 + Thank you very much.
They told me they would subtract the doc fee from the price of the car so go back and get it before they change their mind.
Mack
Pardon?
All I am saying that yes drivers licenses and passports can be forged. But you can also walk in with someone elses name address and SSN. Just because I say my name is Joe Smith I live at 123 Fake street in Springfield and my SSN is 123-45-6789 doesn't mean that I am them.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Because each inquiry impacts the person's score. Do it once or twice, doesn't matter; do it five or ten times, suddenly 750 score slides down.
So there is no problem in pulling record when already buying a car, but I see no reason of having to give up your SSN just to get a price and trade offers and even good faith payment estimate with clear disclosure that it is WAC.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
When withdrawing large amounts of money, bank teller asks you for two IDs. Similar when getting driver's license, biometric readings for immigration, getting to a high-stake exam and many other functions where identification is important. If it's enough to get 20K out of your account and perform all other functions, shouldn't that be enough to buy a car?
It sounds to me like a classic CYA case. Pointless, unnecessary, but it doesn't really hurt, so why not do it, just in case...
Everything could be forged and checking somebody's credit would not change that.
2018 430i Gran Coupe