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http://www.shoptrac.com/r12retro.htm
http://www.teamchicago.com/imperial/imp-ac.htm
I was planning to buy a new car by next summer so I just suffered with marginal AC for one more summer.
So if I wanted to retrofit something like my '67 Catalina or '76 LeMans, I'm guessing it wouldn't be too major of an undertaking, either? Most of the a/c components are pretty exposed, especially in the Catalina. Seems like Chrysler would tend to bury more of the HVAC stuff in the dash.
We just keep it rolling. Someone backed into it in a parking lot so I have to replace a tail lens. It scratched up the bumper but at this point it's not worth fixing that. Mechanically it runs pretty much as it always has. I need to figure out where two interior bulbs are (odometer and clock). That's about it.
Since my wife is the primary driver on that now (I got stuck with the van because she travels during the day and puts loads more miles on than I do) I won't do anything with it until she wants to. That could be a long time. Her dad was a car salesman and went through loads of cars. Her mom always drilled it into her head - "don't fall in love with a car. It'll be gone." That works for me.
In California I have heard we have special laws that outlaw the use of R-12 even from existing supply. However, the flip side of that is the whole price for conversion to R134a is down to about $600-800 depending on the model and how buried things are, as a whole cottage industry has sprung up around it.
It's either convert or get used to the warmth, no exceptions...
This is a good example for this thread, as A/C systems in old cars tend to leak all those good CFCs into the ozone. Should one still be driving around in it once it is doing that, or should one have replaced it before that? Of course, you could just pay to have the system professionally drained once it got to a certain point, but since you wouldn't know it was leaking until it was all done, I don't know how you would anticipate it in time to do any good.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I do plan to keep my car until critical components fail ...
Then I plan to replace them. I'm still making payments because at the end of 2003 I didn't want to make another repair on a paid-off car. What hurts, teaches. I've learned.
Would the a/c setup in my '67 & '76 Pontiacs really be all that different from what's in my Silverado, though? Or would it be best to just put an all-new System in the Silverado, as well?
Oh, final mechanic's bill for the Intrepid came to around $590. Front end is nice and tight again. A/C turned out to just be low on Freon. But he couldn't find where it was leaking from. I know a/c systems are supposed to be totally closed, but is it possible that, with time, they just leak a little, while still being perfectly functional? It had been at the point where it would blow nice and cold up to maybe the high 80's, but once you got into the 90's, you were almost better off just rolling down the windows.
Nah, you would know that there was a problem with the a/c well before all the freon was evacuated. As an example, in my previous post about my Intrepid, it was a little low on freon, to the point that the a/c worked fine in temps up to the high 80's, but once you got into the 90's, it was almost useless. Even in home systems, it can be like this. The heat pump at my old condo wasn't working so well anymore, and it turns out it was just low on freon. Not totally out, but just low.
As a poorly paid out-of-college fella at the time it made more sense to get a $7000 Integra that I would make a regular (planned) payment on then keep alive the old Saab when I could never plan for repairs.
Since that experience I've been leery of trying to band-aid old vehicles. Plus I have no mechanical skills which is a big part of having confidence in keeping an old vehicle on the road I think.
And that is the textbook definition of a Saab. Mine was a 73. Loved it but it ate my wallet.
The now defunct stand-alone SAAB dealer where I bought the 900 from in April '85, converted the R12 A/C to R134a, and the total bill was a bit less than $200.
When it does require work, I do it all myself. And, I buy all the necessary parts from an online retailer that sells OEM parts for a fraction of what a SAAB dealer sells them.
My daughter's '87 900S 16-valve - which we bought used with over a 130K on the clock - was a bit costly to initially get back on the road. I think that was due to the severe lack of regular preventive maintenance for the first 13 years of its life!
When did CA outlaw R12? My ex-wife's 1990 Camry had a slow leak. I took it to a shop about 1999 and they wanted $135 to recharge it. We went to Tijuana and the AC shop there recharged it for $12 including labor. He used a can of Dupont R12. We did that again about 2 years later. Not sure after that as we got divorced. She is still driving the car.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
He says he's having it looked at for about $1,200. I'd imagine a ring job would be a lot more than $1,200.
I don't think the Ford smoke at startup will hurt the smog test, since it should be warmed up by the time it gets to the testing station.
The Intrepid gets the OBD-II scan, so they just check the computer for error codes, and don't actually test its output. I was worried about the truck, since it does smoke a bit, but back in December it passed the treadmill test with flying colors.
For the most part, I think the stuff they test for is invisible to the naked eye, whereas the visible pollutants aren't items they test for. I guess if it was really blowing bad enough though, they might fail it.
My '99 Ultra just turned 101,000 mi and I hope to keep it 5 more yrs before I replace it.
And no, you can't recharge your R-12 system in California. Now if you want to drive over to Nevada, well, the Nevadans are notoriously loose about lots of things, including that. They are allowed to recharge it from existing stock, I believe.
The older 4-cylinder Camrys have a known problem with prematurely hardening valve seals, which is where the blue smoke at cold start-up comes from on so many of them. The $1200 is probably the cost of having the seals replaced.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The cost to service the problem was $800-$1,000 the first time (under warranty, so I didn't pay anything). (This was in VA in 2000.) The second time, I didn't fix it.
Here's a twist on the question - How many of you have driven a car for years that has been absolutely reliable, but you can't stand driving it? I picked up a 98 Prizm a few years back. After a few months, it started buring a quart of oil every 600 miles, so I torn down the engine and re-ringed it(yes - newer engines can get bad rings), head job, etc and it's been perfect since. I always average upper 30s for fuel mileage and nothing else to replace besides normal wear and tear items. The only issue is.............. I can't stand the car - it's noisey on the freeway, uncomfortable, and so small that my 4 year old doesn't have enough leg room in the rear. It has 142k miles, but is still solid.
How long do you stick it out in that situation???
How long do you stick it out in that situation???
I think in a situation like that, I'd really be inclined to get rid of the car and get something more useful. While the reliability and fuel economy are nice, if the car simply is not useful and comfortable to you, and you can't stand it, it's time to get something else, if just for the quality-of-life improvement.
Heck, back in the old days, they used used motor oil as flea dip for dogs and cats! :surprise: Not exactly the good old days. :sick:
I'm more and more tempted to just leave the a/c systems in my old cars alone. None of them really get driven that much. Probably the one that would be most worthwhile to get fixed is the one in my pickup, since I drive it the most.
Yeah, as much as you drive that car, it's worth it to get the a/c fixed. How many miles per year are you putting on it these days? I've discovered that a dark blue interior can actually play mind games with you, especially if it's a cloth/velour. While that dark color retains the heat, the color itself is nice and soothing, so you don't "think" you're as hot as you really are. At least, that's what I discovered with the '79 NYer I bought back in may...midnight blue with a matching interior. I'm just glad it wasn't leather or vinyl!
I think the only time I was really in pain was this past August, when I went up to PA for that Macungie car show in August. I came up in the Intrepid that Saturday afternoon, and I'm sure temps were over 100. The Intrepid's a/c was pretty useless, but rolling down the windows at that temp just made it worse. Thankfully, the temps were pretty moderate when we went to the show that Sunday.
My 2 cents.
But now that was also right after my divorce, and was pretty busted! Truthfully though, I could probably do without heat nowadays, at least commuting to work. Heck, on a really cold day, sometimes the heater won't even blow hot until I'm pulling into the parking lot at work. Those 3.5 mile commutes can be such a pain sometimes
Now if you live in a REALLY hot climate, or are the type of person that breaks into a sweat easily, I could see a/c being a necessity. But to me, it isn't. I dunno...maybe I'm just a masochist!
The only question now is do I buy new and drive it until 200k, or do I buy a few years used and drive it until 200k? I put on about 25k miles a year, so it won't take too long to rack up the miles.
From strictly an environmental standpoint, used is probably the better option, but does it really matter? With supply and demand the way it is, someone will drive the car until the wheels fall off. The example I'm thinking of was a ride in a taxi cab in Mexico. The car was an 90's Nissan Sentra brought in from the US, painted yellow, and well over 250k miles (I did verify it wasn't km).
The point I'm trying to make is that cars that still have life don't end up in the junkyard. Someone, somewhere will find a use for it. So is is really that bad to buy new??? If there was no market for used, then maybe - but that's not the case.
I'd say if you want to buy domestic, get one that's 1-2 years old and low mileage. You'll still get plenty of use out of it, but will probably pay half of the original MSRP, or less.
If you want to buy Japanese, especially Honda/Toyota, you might as well just go new. They're not so desireable that they command sticker price anymore, so you can usually get a pretty good deal on one. Yet they still hold their value well enough that you won't get much of a deal buying used. And, unless you order the thing right from the factory, it's already been built, and sitting out there on the lot. So the production of that car has already taken its toll on the environment.
Are you sure it was an old one? Nissan still builds the '91-94 Sentra in Mexico and sells it as the Tsuru.
I drove a 1951 Studebaker four door to work from 1965 to 1970. It was ugly, poor handling, and got 21 MPG consistently on my 20 mile commute. My wife drove the 1964 Toyota Landcruiser 2 miles to work as it only got about 12 MPG. When I left for Alaska in 1970 my boss bought the old Studebaker and drove it a few more years. It was a small V8 with a 3 speed on the column. Used a little oil and was never overhauled.
HOST, where could we find the results of this report, or, even better, could you display the article on this discussion?
Can you recommend at particular AC shop in TJ?
It's got somewhere north of 150K on it now and he claims that he's going to drive it until the doors fall off. He's replaced the struts and put new tires on it.
The only issues with it at the moment are that the A/C doesn't work (charge needed?) and, when he had the struts installed, they goofed up the transmission and now he has issues going into reverse. The shop claims that Saturn no longer makes the part needed to effect the repairs, but I told him to check with the Saturn dealer on that, then talk to the shop to see what they'd do.
On the A/C issue, he just lives by the 2/55 rule (2 windows down at 55MPH), but he's getting married at the end of the month and his bride-to-be may have different ideas about keeping comfortable.
So we'll just have to wait and see.
That's always the obstacle to "keeping it til the wheels fall off": in the end, someone just finds it lacking for one reason or another, even though it is still mechanically sound.
Of course, if it really only needs a recharge the A/C could be fairly cheap to get working again. The car itself is not that old.
I am curious how they could possibly screw up strut installation, let alone do so in a way that would affect the gearshift.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)